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Author Topic: The Recusant - Issue 11 - NovemberDecember 2013  (Read 2228 times)

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Offline Ecclesia Militans

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Offline SeanJohnson

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The Recusant - Issue 11 - NovemberDecember 2013
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2013, 07:08:17 PM »
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  • As usual, Mr. Taylor's editorial is well written.

    But it will come as no surprise to him that I take issue with this little snippet:

    "It is now a racing certainty that the SSPX will continue to sink further into the mire of compromise, whereas the open Resistance to this process will continue to advance and grow."

    No doubt, he considers me an adversary, because I do not share his dogmatic certainty on this point.

    But I wonder why he has not considered that, should time prove him correct, I (and anyone else, for that matter) am perfectly free to remove myself from the SSPX?

    My suspicion (a question, actually), is that the explanation for Mr. Taylor's motivation in opposing my position is contained in the second part of my quoted snippet (i.e., "whereas the open Resistance to this process will continue to advance and grow.").

    In other words, I am wondering whether the reason for attacking the internal resistance (and our "wait and see" approach) is because it hinders the growth of the external resistance?

    In fairness to Mr. Taylor, I expect he would say that I am being deceived, and that Bishop Fellay's recent actions are precisely designed to stop the flow of defection to the external resistance, and reassure those of us among the internal resistance.

    Perhaps.

    But only perhaps.

    I wait to see how it all plays out, and there is not deadline by which one must make a decision.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    The Recusant - Issue 11 - NovemberDecember 2013
    « Reply #2 on: November 03, 2013, 02:08:13 AM »
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  • .

    That's a pretty interesting quote, SeanJohn:



    "It is now a racing certainty that the SSPX will continue

    to sink further into the mire of compromise, whereas

    the open Resistance to this process will continue to advance and grow."






    .........but do I detect a little of this?.................








    ......Word 'on the street' is, there is an antidote available, from the Fire Department........







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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    The Recusant - Issue 11 - NovemberDecember 2013
    « Reply #3 on: November 03, 2013, 05:49:19 AM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    .

    That's a pretty interesting quote, SeanJohn:



    "It is now a racing certainty that the SSPX will continue

    to sink further into the mire of compromise, whereas

    the open Resistance to this process will continue to advance and grow."






    .........but do I detect a little of this?.................








    ......Word 'on the street' is, there is an antidote available, from the Fire Department........







    .


    Thank you for your inability to counter with a reasoned reply....as usual.

    If you could point out the part wherein sour grapes are contained, it would be helpful for all those like me, who are wondering what in the heck you are talking about (again).
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    The Recusant - Issue 11 - NovemberDecember 2013
    « Reply #4 on: November 05, 2013, 12:34:28 AM »
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  • .


    One short paragraph for CI members who don't have much time
    to read (I made it into three paragraphs):  





    We have before us a Genuine Modernist!


    The actual discourse of Bishop Fellay makes for interesting reading and reflection, if you have the constitution for it. Elsewhere in this issue, the reader will find an analysis and commentary on some of the things he said. Somewhat hastily put together and written more with an internet audience in mind, we nonetheless feel confident that it will stand the test of time.

    The lesson to learn is not that Bishop Fellay is pro- or anti- modernist Rome, rather that he is capable of being both or either, of changing his position without hesitation and with never so much as a blush, according to whatever his own short-sighted goals require. Take heed. Once again, as if it were needed, he has provided us with startling evidence of how his own words are as good as useless in indicating what he will do or say next. When he talks, he does so in order to create an impression in the mind of the listener, not to communicate something objective from one mind to another, much less to lay out or establish anything for which he will feel bound to give an account in the future should someone remind him of his own words. His dictum that nobody can criticise the April 2012 Doctrinal Declaration because they don’t necessarily understand what he himself meant by it, and his complaint that we “are not in [his] head!” ought to be truly frightening to anyone with a basic understanding of philosophy. It amounts in practice to a denial that words have any objective meaning or that statements or sentences can be understood by a third party without reference to their author. If that is not the very last word in modernist thinking, then I don’t know what is.

    Consider the implications for one moment: if that were true, then nobody could ever know the teaching of the Church. There could be no Catholic teaching, since any writing from the more recent Popes down to the Church Fathers and even Scripture itself would depend upon “being inside the head” of the author. If, on the other hand, words do have objective meaning, a meaning which stands alone and is not dependent on any intellectual caprice of their author, then what Bishop Fellay wrote and offered to bind himself to last year cannot be defended by any Traditional Catholic worthy of the name.




    ............and there's a lot more where that came from..............

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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    The Recusant - Issue 11 - NovemberDecember 2013
    « Reply #5 on: November 18, 2013, 12:11:37 AM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    .


    One short paragraph for CI members who don't have much time
    to read (I made it into three seven paragraphs):  





    We have before us a Genuine Modernist!


    The actual discourse of Bishop Fellay makes for interesting reading and reflection, if you have the constitution for it. Elsewhere in this issue, the reader will find an analysis and commentary on some of the things he said. Somewhat hastily put together and written more with an internet audience in mind, we nonetheless feel confident that it will stand the test of time.

    The lesson to learn is not that Bishop Fellay is pro- or anti- modernist Rome, rather that he is capable of being both or either, of changing his position without hesitation and with never so much as a blush, according to whatever his own short-sighted goals require. Take heed. Once again, as if it were needed, he has provided us with startling evidence of how his own words are as good as useless in indicating what he will do or say next. When he talks, he does so in order to create an impression in the mind of the listener, not to communicate something objective from one mind to another, much less to lay out or establish anything for which he will feel bound to give an account in the future should someone remind him of his own words. His dictum that nobody can criticise the April 2012 Doctrinal Declaration because they don’t necessarily understand what he himself meant by it, and his complaint that we “are not in [his] head!” ought to be truly frightening to anyone with a basic understanding of philosophy.



    Which would explain why certain critics are so grumpy about this.  And it also
    explains why there was such a visceral reaction against "Quid est veritas" by
    Msgr. Perez, which see.  

    Ed. might be interested to know that my introduction to him of TheRecusant
    seems to be bearing good fruit.  But he isn't willing just as yet to admit it!  
    Maybe that's because we're not 'inside his head'......... just kidding.

                                                HAHAHAHAHA



    Quote
    It amounts in practice to a denial that words have any objective meaning or that statements or sentences can be understood by a third party without reference to their author. If that is not the very last word in modernist thinking, then I don’t know what is.

    Consider the implications for one moment: if that were true, then nobody could ever know the teaching of the Church. There could be no Catholic teaching, since any writing from the more recent Popes down to the Church Fathers and even Scripture itself would depend upon “being inside the head” of the author.

    If, on the other hand, words do have objective meaning, a meaning which stands alone and is not dependent on any intellectual caprice of their author, then what Bishop Fellay wrote and offered to bind himself to, last year, cannot be defended by any Traditional Catholic worthy of the name.




    ............and there's a lot more where that came from..............




    Yes, when I heard XSPXSGBF say "THEY'RE NOT INSIDE MY HEAD!" it did
    not take sky writing or neon lights or smoke signals or a headline in the
    Huff-and-Puffington Post to alert me to the fact that what we have before
    us is not only a genuine Modernist, but one who dares to accuse others of
    Modernism while he nonetheless lunges ahead to practice it himself.



    A most telling sermon by the late Fr. John O'Connor (leave it to the Irish!!!)
    said it better than anyone I have yet heard:




    Modernism is the religion of the devil.



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