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Author Topic: Thought for the day - SSPX deluxe vs. Independent sloppy  (Read 2356 times)

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Offline Pax Vobis

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Re: Thought for the day - SSPX deluxe vs. Independent sloppy
« Reply #15 on: April 14, 2019, 10:49:13 AM »
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    The OP makes a good point. Even if a Mass is sloppily done, it is still valid and licit given the right conditions.
    If the sloppiness is habitual and not a one-time thing, this would be a grave sin.
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    Offline Meg

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    Re: Thought for the day - SSPX deluxe vs. Independent sloppy
    « Reply #16 on: April 14, 2019, 10:54:49 AM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on April 14, 2019, 10:49:13 AM
    If the sloppiness is habitual and not a one-time thing, this would be a grave sin.

    Yes, I think you're right, but notice that I said valid and licit given the right conditions. And it would depend of what constitutes "sloppy." I don't have any interest in getting into the minute details of what that might be. If you'd like to do so, go ahead.
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    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: Thought for the day - SSPX deluxe vs. Independent sloppy
    « Reply #17 on: April 14, 2019, 10:57:30 AM »
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    • I once knew an Indult priest (not an FSSP) who sped thru Mass so quickly that you literally might miss the Elevation of the Sacred Host if you blinked. It was so disconcerting and so fundamentally disturbing. There was not a second - not even one second - to adore Our Lord at the elevation.

    Then he sped thru the Leonine prayers at the end of Mass so fast the faithful couldn't even keep up, and he would start the next Hail Mary before they were done reciting the response part.

    I wanted to say something to him after, but I didn't. I regret that now. He had a very badly ingrained habit.
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    Offline Town Crier

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    Re: Thought for the day - SSPX deluxe vs. Independent sloppy
    « Reply #18 on: April 14, 2019, 03:08:27 PM »
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    • Quote from: St Paul on April 14, 2019, 08:32:40 AM
    The first time i went to a mass by fr. Asher i thought to myself, "this CAN'T be reverent."  Reminded me of fr. Pazat (who i believe left the clerical state) who heaved deep sighs before each sentence in the mass.  
    20 min is NOT enough tome to say a reverent mass.
    Fr. Pazat is one of the Priests at Our Lady of Sorrows in Phx. Az.
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    "beautiful stained-glass windows which will bring the catechism of the church to life.":SSPX St Mary's KA. Window as they see fit Fund

    Offline forlorn

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    Re: Thought for the day - SSPX deluxe vs. Independent sloppy
    « Reply #19 on: April 14, 2019, 04:51:01 PM »
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    • This talk of "Speed Masses" has me wondering, how long (roughly) should a Mass be?
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    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Thought for the day - SSPX deluxe vs. Independent sloppy
    « Reply #20 on: April 14, 2019, 05:28:46 PM »
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    • Quote from: Smedley Butler on April 14, 2019, 10:57:30 AM
    I once knew an Indult priest (not an FSSP) who sped thru Mass so quickly that you literally might miss the Elevation of the Sacred Host if you blinked. It was so disconcerting and so fundamentally disturbing. There was not a second - not even one second - to adore Our Lord at the elevation.

    Then he sped thru the Leonine prayers at the end of Mass so fast the faithful couldn't even keep up, and he would start the next Hail Mary before they were done reciting the response part.

    I wanted to say something to him after, but I didn't. I regret that now. He had a very badly ingrained habit.

    Just guessing this Indult priest had an agenda against the TLM ?
    Racing through the Tridentine Mass would be one way of protesting it.
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    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline St Paul

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    Re: Thought for the day - SSPX deluxe vs. Independent sloppy
    « Reply #21 on: April 14, 2019, 05:53:09 PM »
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    • Quote from: Incredulous on April 14, 2019, 05:28:46 PM
    Just guessing this Indult priest had an agenda against the TLM ?
    Racing through the Tridentine Mass would be one way of protesting it.
    With that logic, many priests in the sspx have an agends against the TLM, especially "the fastest mass in the west," fr. Asher.
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    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Thought for the day - SSPX deluxe vs. Independent sloppy
    « Reply #22 on: April 15, 2019, 09:18:39 AM »
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    • Quote from: St Paul on April 14, 2019, 05:53:09 PM
    With that logic, many priests in the sspx have an agends against the TLM, especially "the fastest mass in the west," fr. Asher.


     IMHO, there's a important difference in intent between the "Indulted fast" and "SSPX fast" Masses:


    1.  Often, the Novus ordo trained priest lacks fluency in the TLM liturgy and proficiency in the Mass rubrics.
         He could just be an awkward fill-in on a Diocese indult Mass schedule established by the local bishop?

         Or, he could harbor true resentment for having to celebrate it.  I've heard comments from indulted
         Novus ordo church pastors, indicating they think it's a pain in the butt to have the TLM in their Church.
        
         Comments such as, "Oh, traditionalist think they're so holy with their exclusive Mass".  
         "Exclusive" being the operative word, implying trads look down upon the Novus ordo faithful wanting to cut them out.

         Lastly, the Novus ordo priest could just be embarrassed and speeds through the TLM to cover-up errors in Latin or rubrics.


    2. The SSPX Speed Mass is more sinister in that for those who have been given much, much is expected.

         The younger priests have obviously been formed to speed through the Mass.  So in part, they are only following orders.
           But, intuitively, they know it's wrong.  Sadly they've been formed in scandal by their priestly teachers.
      
          But the older priests clearly know better.  They know the Holy reverence attributed to the Mass by +ABL.
          In this "Fr. Asher type" SSPX priest, there is a distinct trad arrogance.  This is the "know-it-all" spirit plaguing tradition.

          It's the spirit of men pumped-up as experts in the TLM.  Men who've become to think they have the authority to do what
          they want with the Mass.  "I'm SSPX, therefore I have the license for tradition".  
         
          They speed through the Holy Sacrifice at their own peril.   

           In conclusion, I'm happy to say, this sacrilege will not last.


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    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline SanMateo

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    Re: Thought for the day - SSPX deluxe vs. Independent sloppy
    « Reply #23 on: April 17, 2019, 09:14:39 AM »
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    • Quote from: St Paul on April 14, 2019, 08:32:40 AM
    The first time i went to a mass by fr. Asher i thought to myself, "this CAN'T be reverent."  Reminded me of fr. Pazat (who i believe left the clerical state) who heaved deep sighs before each sentence in the mass.  
    20 min is NOT enough tome to say a reverent mass.
    Two things:  
    1.  There are two Fr. Pazat's in the SSPX.  One of them is now at Our Lady of Sorrows.
    2.  As far as the sighs go, the one I know has SIGNIFICANT health problems, so that could be part of it.  
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    Offline AlligatorDicax

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    Sigh?/Re: Thought for the day - SSPX deluxe vs. Independent sloppy
    « Reply #24 on: April 21, 2019, 12:50:44 PM »
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    • Quote from: SanMateo on April 17, 2019, 09:14:39 AM

    As far as the sighs go, the one I know has SIGNIFICANT health problems, so that could be part of it.

    Whether voluntary or involuntary, breathing abnormalities that could be interpreted as mere sighs could be caused by any of these:

    •   Congestive Obstructive Pulmonary Disease (better known by initials COPD), which I suppose is most common in the U.S.A. as the temporal reward for decades of heavy smoking.  Perhaps only housekeepers, sacristans, trusted "altar boys", and long-time male parishoners would even be aware of such a habit, customarily confined to priests' residences or cells &c.  Comments would be needed from, e.g., Matthew or Ladislaus, to inform readers on the extent to which the polluting habit existed within their experiences in seminaries.

    •   Shortness of breath from acute anemia, which can appear in senior years as an incurable blood disease that's unrelated to any habit of smoking (or not).  Altho' "heav[ing] deep sighs before each sentence in the mass",  if heard also in sermons or normal conversation, would be a symptom waaay into the life-threatening range.

    •   (Anything else? [×])

    I'd not be surprised if local fire marshalls refused to allow use of otherwise common prescribed oxygen gas (O2) in the sanctuary, where altar candles or charcoal lit for incense could be considered an unacceptable fire hazard.  So enduring a worsening shortage of O2 during Mass might be a priest's private cross to bear in return for continuing to celebrate Mass.

    -------
    Note ×: I suppose many maladies or infirmities could be added to this list, because I have no formal training in medicine.
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