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Author Topic: The quagmire of todays SSPX leadership  (Read 2060 times)

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Offline Machabees

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The quagmire of todays SSPX leadership
« on: November 06, 2012, 09:41:17 PM »
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  • I do not know about you, but all of this turmoil, and crisis, inside the SSPX is extremely disturbing to say the least.  I have put the greater part of my life in the fight of the faith under them; to learn and sweat in the fields alongside them.  

    In these recent events, we all have witnessed an eye awakening shakeup on their “tree”.  Effecting in the lack of trust and confidence all throughout the ranks and faithful…  The contradictions and disorientation…  The resulting division and discord throughout the whole world within the family of tradition…  The heavy hand of punishments and expulsions coming from the top…   I can only imagine the heart of our Lord, our Lady, the Angels, and Saints looking on…if I can say, in dismay.

    Why now such a “Campos” compromise?  Has Rome put away their errors of modernism and converted to the true faith of tradition?  No?  Then why the need of wanting to dangerously put the True faith into the mix of the ecuмenical Novus ordo religion -the worship of Man?  Why go inside another religious belief of morals and faith?  Why do this, and know at the same time, you are going to lose the protection, that Archbishop Lefebvre always talked about, that allows us to distance ourselves from harm’s way - the Church’s Supplied Jurisdiction?  

    Are we not told in Scripture that all of the gods of the gentiles (other religions) are devils?  Why share in the halls of the same ecuмenical house with them?  FSSP and all the others tried this –look at the results…

    So what is happening?  Couldn’t we say that this is also an identity crisis within the SSPX that is happening?  Archbishop Lefebvre has always been very clear and constant in his speech.  For a number of years after the good Archbishop died, the SSPX leaders also followed this stand –with tremendous conversions and growth all around the world.  If it be of God, who can stop it…  

    Yet, it has been very sad to see and hear from the different SSPX pulpits, and the filtered news from Menzingen, their “new” style of talk…and mouth dropping double speak.  A “new” -it’s all ok…we can convert them from the inside…  Didn’t we hear this before?

    It seems with amnesia, that they now choose to have one foot on each side of the fence.  On one side, to please the modernists, and at the same time, try to please the traditional faith that they were ordained in.  Our Lord says, you can either serve one or the other...  Either you are with me or against me…  These phrases are well known.

    Is the frequency of the “scarlet buttons, so to speak, and the marble floors.”  (Bishop Williamson - open letter to the Superior General of the Society on 19 October), seeded a “day dream”?

    Does looking over the fence day dream the novelties for “recognition” with an inordinate affection?  Have we forgotten the Lord of Hosts and the King of Kings to fight for?  Have they forgotten Archbishop Lefebvre’s works –“I accuse the Council”, and “They have un-crowned him”.

    In this quagmire, isn’t Rome in the same identity crisis also?  Does going into the mud keep you clean?  To whom do we serve?


    Offline Mea Culpa

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    The quagmire of todays SSPX leadership
    « Reply #1 on: November 06, 2012, 10:37:07 PM »
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  • Quote from: Machabees
    I do not know about you, but all of this turmoil, and crisis, inside the SSPX is extremely disturbing to say the least.  I have put the greater part of my life in the fight of the faith under them; to learn and sweat in the fields alongside them.  

    In these recent events, we all have witnessed an eye awakening shakeup on their “tree”.  Effecting in the lack of trust and confidence all throughout the ranks and faithful…  The contradictions and disorientation…  The resulting division and discord throughout the whole world within the family of tradition…  The heavy hand of punishments and expulsions coming from the top…   I can only imagine the heart of our Lord, our Lady, the Angels, and Saints looking on…if I can say, in dismay.

    Why now such a “Campos” compromise?  Has Rome put away their errors of modernism and converted to the true faith of tradition?  No?  Then why the need of wanting to dangerously put the True faith into the mix of the ecuмenical Novus ordo religion -the worship of Man?  Why go inside another religious belief of morals and faith?  Why do this, and know at the same time, you are going to lose the protection, that Archbishop Lefebvre always talked about, that allows us to distance ourselves from harm’s way - the Church’s Supplied Jurisdiction?  

    Are we not told in Scripture that all of the gods of the gentiles (other religions) are devils?  Why share in the halls of the same ecuмenical house with them?  FSSP and all the others tried this –look at the results…

    So what is happening?  Couldn’t we say that this is also an identity crisis within the SSPX that is happening?  Archbishop Lefebvre has always been very clear and constant in his speech.  For a number of years after the good Archbishop died, the SSPX leaders also followed this stand –with tremendous conversions and growth all around the world.  If it be of God, who can stop it…  

    Yet, it has been very sad to see and hear from the different SSPX pulpits, and the filtered news from Menzingen, their “new” style of talk…and mouth dropping double speak.  A “new” -it’s all ok…we can convert them from the inside…  Didn’t we hear this before?

    It seems with amnesia, that they now choose to have one foot on each side of the fence.  On one side, to please the modernists, and at the same time, try to please the traditional faith that they were ordained in.  Our Lord says, you can either serve one or the other...  Either you are with me or against me…  These phrases are well known.

    Is the frequency of the “scarlet buttons, so to speak, and the marble floors.”  (Bishop Williamson - open letter to the Superior General of the Society on 19 October), seeded a “day dream”?

    Does looking over the fence day dream the novelties for “recognition” with an inordinate affection?  Have we forgotten the Lord of Hosts and the King of Kings to fight for?  Have they forgotten Archbishop Lefebvre’s works –“I accuse the Council”, and “They have un-crowned him”.

    In this quagmire, isn’t Rome in the same identity crisis also?  Does going into the mud keep you clean?  To whom do we serve?


    I completely agree Machabees......I also can't understand at all why +Fellay has a need to join Rome and put so many souls at risk.

    Either he's trying to do the things that only God Almighty can do (convert Rome) or that he's so power hungry, that he's willing to do whatever it takes to get it.
    (I think it's the latter).

    Dr. von Hilderbrand is in perfect conformity with the authorities who have already been cited when he denies that the faithful have the duty of automatic obedience to their bishops in the present state of the Church. He shows with admirable clarity that the mark of a truly faithful Catholic can be a refusal to submit to heretical or compromising bishops.

    Should the faithful at the time of the Arian heresy, for instance, in which the majority of the bishops were Arians, have limited themselves to being nice and obedient to the ordinances of these bishops, instead of battling heresy? Is not fidelity to the true teaching of the Church to be given priority over submission to the bishop? Is it not precisely by virtue of their obedience to the revealed truths which they received from the Magisterium of the Church, that the faithful offer resistance?...

    The drivel of the heretics, both priests and laymen, is tolerated; the bishops tacitly acquiesce to the poisoning of the faithful. But they want to silence the faithful believers who take up the cause of orthodoxy, the very people who should by all rights be the joy of the bishops' hearts, their consolation, a source of strength for overcoming their own lethargy. Instead, these people are regarded as disturbers of the peace.5

    "Is not fidelity to the true teaching of the Church to be given priority over submission to the bishop?" asks Dr. von Hildebrand. "Yes, it is," replies St. Thomas Aquinas together with every reputable theologian who has examined the subject. There can be very few faithful Catholics who would refuse to align themselves with St. Thomas and Dietrich von Hildebrand on this point - with one reservation. Many, if not most, would add the proviso: "Unless the bishop in question is the Bishop of Rome." Some are quite unwilling to admit, even to themselves, that an occasion could ever arise when a Catholic should justifiably refuse obedience to the Sovereign Pontiff. However sincere such people may be, they display a lamentable ignorance of Church history and Catholic theology.


    Offline bowler

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    The quagmire of todays SSPX leadership
    « Reply #2 on: November 07, 2012, 07:13:32 AM »
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  • Quote
    Does looking over the fence day dream the novelties for “recognition” with an inordinate affection?


    I don't understand what this means

    Offline stgobnait

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    The quagmire of todays SSPX leadership
    « Reply #3 on: November 07, 2012, 07:21:36 AM »
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  • We used to believe, when so many good Bishops and Priests 'converted' to modernism, was because they did not have the Grace of the true Sacrements... we cannot say that now of our silent sspx Priests.. so we can only conclude, that they know exactly what they are doing, and all in the name of obdience..... yes.. sounds familar....

    Offline GemmaGal

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    The quagmire of todays SSPX leadership
    « Reply #4 on: November 07, 2012, 08:37:03 AM »
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  • Quote from: Mea Culpa
    Quote from: Machabees
    I do not know about you, but all of this turmoil, and crisis, inside the SSPX is extremely disturbing to say the least.  I have put the greater part of my life in the fight of the faith under them; to learn and sweat in the fields alongside them.  

    In these recent events, we all have witnessed an eye awakening shakeup on their “tree”.  Effecting in the lack of trust and confidence all throughout the ranks and faithful…  The contradictions and disorientation…  The resulting division and discord throughout the whole world within the family of tradition…  The heavy hand of punishments and expulsions coming from the top…   I can only imagine the heart of our Lord, our Lady, the Angels, and Saints looking on…if I can say, in dismay.

    Why now such a “Campos” compromise?  Has Rome put away their errors of modernism and converted to the true faith of tradition?  No?  Then why the need of wanting to dangerously put the True faith into the mix of the ecuмenical Novus ordo religion -the worship of Man?  Why go inside another religious belief of morals and faith?  Why do this, and know at the same time, you are going to lose the protection, that Archbishop Lefebvre always talked about, that allows us to distance ourselves from harm’s way - the Church’s Supplied Jurisdiction?  

    Are we not told in Scripture that all of the gods of the gentiles (other religions) are devils?  Why share in the halls of the same ecuмenical house with them?  FSSP and all the others tried this –look at the results…

    So what is happening?  Couldn’t we say that this is also an identity crisis within the SSPX that is happening?  Archbishop Lefebvre has always been very clear and constant in his speech.  For a number of years after the good Archbishop died, the SSPX leaders also followed this stand –with tremendous conversions and growth all around the world.  If it be of God, who can stop it…  

    Yet, it has been very sad to see and hear from the different SSPX pulpits, and the filtered news from Menzingen, their “new” style of talk…and mouth dropping double speak.  A “new” -it’s all ok…we can convert them from the inside…  Didn’t we hear this before?

    It seems with amnesia, that they now choose to have one foot on each side of the fence.  On one side, to please the modernists, and at the same time, try to please the traditional faith that they were ordained in.  Our Lord says, you can either serve one or the other...  Either you are with me or against me…  These phrases are well known.

    Is the frequency of the “scarlet buttons, so to speak, and the marble floors.”  (Bishop Williamson - open letter to the Superior General of the Society on 19 October), seeded a “day dream”?

    Does looking over the fence day dream the novelties for “recognition” with an inordinate affection?  Have we forgotten the Lord of Hosts and the King of Kings to fight for?  Have they forgotten Archbishop Lefebvre’s works –“I accuse the Council”, and “They have un-crowned him”.

    In this quagmire, isn’t Rome in the same identity crisis also?  Does going into the mud keep you clean?  To whom do we serve?


    I completely agree Machabees......I also can't understand at all why +Fellay has a need to join Rome and put so many souls at risk.

    Either he's trying to do the things that only God Almighty can do (convert Rome) or that he's so power hungry, that he's willing to do whatever it takes to get it.
    (I think it's the latter).

    Dr. von Hilderbrand is in perfect conformity with the authorities who have already been cited when he denies that the faithful have the duty of automatic obedience to their bishops in the present state of the Church. He shows with admirable clarity that the mark of a truly faithful Catholic can be a refusal to submit to heretical or compromising bishops.

    Should the faithful at the time of the Arian heresy, for instance, in which the majority of the bishops were Arians, have limited themselves to being nice and obedient to the ordinances of these bishops, instead of battling heresy? Is not fidelity to the true teaching of the Church to be given priority over submission to the bishop? Is it not precisely by virtue of their obedience to the revealed truths which they received from the Magisterium of the Church, that the faithful offer resistance?...

    The drivel of the heretics, both priests and laymen, is tolerated; the bishops tacitly acquiesce to the poisoning of the faithful. But they want to silence the faithful believers who take up the cause of orthodoxy, the very people who should by all rights be the joy of the bishops' hearts, their consolation, a source of strength for overcoming their own lethargy. Instead, these people are regarded as disturbers of the peace.5

    "Is not fidelity to the true teaching of the Church to be given priority over submission to the bishop?" asks Dr. von Hildebrand. "Yes, it is," replies St. Thomas Aquinas together with every reputable theologian who has examined the subject. There can be very few faithful Catholics who would refuse to align themselves with St. Thomas and Dietrich von Hildebrand on this point - with one reservation. Many, if not most, would add the proviso: "Unless the bishop in question is the Bishop of Rome." Some are quite unwilling to admit, even to themselves, that an occasion could ever arise when a Catholic should justifiably refuse obedience to the Sovereign Pontiff. However sincere such people may be, they display a lamentable ignorance of Church history and Catholic theology.


    These are beautifully written posts. So many thumbs up have been given.
    Lots of us here agree.

    I read what St. Thomas Aquinas wrote concerning the church and heresy. I could not have stopped going to the NO without this Saint's approval. Yes, even the Pope is involved or things just wouldn't be as they are today.

    What can we do to strengthen ourselves and resist modernism in a dynamic way?

    Catholic INfo is a real meeting place for us, but we may be able to resist the wave of destruction to Catholicism if we discuss some positive action, or possibilities to do something.

    Perhaps along the lines of finding a new state or country and some leaders from a royal family could support and rule a truly Catholic country.

    I believe there are still French Catholic royals who support SSPX, is that not true?
    "A person is an individual substance of a rational nature."
    "Truth does not depend on our knowledge of it; but on the existence of things."
    De Veritate: Ques. X Art. III
    Thomas Aquinas


    Offline Mea Culpa

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    The quagmire of todays SSPX leadership
    « Reply #5 on: November 07, 2012, 09:07:47 AM »
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  • Quote from: GemmaGal
    Quote from: Mea Culpa
    Quote from: Machabees
    I do not know about you, but all of this turmoil, and crisis, inside the SSPX is extremely disturbing to say the least.  I have put the greater part of my life in the fight of the faith under them; to learn and sweat in the fields alongside them.  

    In these recent events, we all have witnessed an eye awakening shakeup on their “tree”.  Effecting in the lack of trust and confidence all throughout the ranks and faithful…  The contradictions and disorientation…  The resulting division and discord throughout the whole world within the family of tradition…  The heavy hand of punishments and expulsions coming from the top…   I can only imagine the heart of our Lord, our Lady, the Angels, and Saints looking on…if I can say, in dismay.

    Why now such a “Campos” compromise?  Has Rome put away their errors of modernism and converted to the true faith of tradition?  No?  Then why the need of wanting to dangerously put the True faith into the mix of the ecuмenical Novus ordo religion -the worship of Man?  Why go inside another religious belief of morals and faith?  Why do this, and know at the same time, you are going to lose the protection, that Archbishop Lefebvre always talked about, that allows us to distance ourselves from harm’s way - the Church’s Supplied Jurisdiction?  

    Are we not told in Scripture that all of the gods of the gentiles (other religions) are devils?  Why share in the halls of the same ecuмenical house with them?  FSSP and all the others tried this –look at the results…

    So what is happening?  Couldn’t we say that this is also an identity crisis within the SSPX that is happening?  Archbishop Lefebvre has always been very clear and constant in his speech.  For a number of years after the good Archbishop died, the SSPX leaders also followed this stand –with tremendous conversions and growth all around the world.  If it be of God, who can stop it…  

    Yet, it has been very sad to see and hear from the different SSPX pulpits, and the filtered news from Menzingen, their “new” style of talk…and mouth dropping double speak.  A “new” -it’s all ok…we can convert them from the inside…  Didn’t we hear this before?

    It seems with amnesia, that they now choose to have one foot on each side of the fence.  On one side, to please the modernists, and at the same time, try to please the traditional faith that they were ordained in.  Our Lord says, you can either serve one or the other...  Either you are with me or against me…  These phrases are well known.

    Is the frequency of the “scarlet buttons, so to speak, and the marble floors.”  (Bishop Williamson - open letter to the Superior General of the Society on 19 October), seeded a “day dream”?

    Does looking over the fence day dream the novelties for “recognition” with an inordinate affection?  Have we forgotten the Lord of Hosts and the King of Kings to fight for?  Have they forgotten Archbishop Lefebvre’s works –“I accuse the Council”, and “They have un-crowned him”.

    In this quagmire, isn’t Rome in the same identity crisis also?  Does going into the mud keep you clean?  To whom do we serve?


    I completely agree Machabees......I also can't understand at all why +Fellay has a need to join Rome and put so many souls at risk.

    Either he's trying to do the things that only God Almighty can do (convert Rome) or that he's so power hungry, that he's willing to do whatever it takes to get it.
    (I think it's the latter).

    Dr. von Hilderbrand is in perfect conformity with the authorities who have already been cited when he denies that the faithful have the duty of automatic obedience to their bishops in the present state of the Church. He shows with admirable clarity that the mark of a truly faithful Catholic can be a refusal to submit to heretical or compromising bishops.

    Should the faithful at the time of the Arian heresy, for instance, in which the majority of the bishops were Arians, have limited themselves to being nice and obedient to the ordinances of these bishops, instead of battling heresy? Is not fidelity to the true teaching of the Church to be given priority over submission to the bishop? Is it not precisely by virtue of their obedience to the revealed truths which they received from the Magisterium of the Church, that the faithful offer resistance?...

    The drivel of the heretics, both priests and laymen, is tolerated; the bishops tacitly acquiesce to the poisoning of the faithful. But they want to silence the faithful believers who take up the cause of orthodoxy, the very people who should by all rights be the joy of the bishops' hearts, their consolation, a source of strength for overcoming their own lethargy. Instead, these people are regarded as disturbers of the peace.5

    "Is not fidelity to the true teaching of the Church to be given priority over submission to the bishop?" asks Dr. von Hildebrand. "Yes, it is," replies St. Thomas Aquinas together with every reputable theologian who has examined the subject. There can be very few faithful Catholics who would refuse to align themselves with St. Thomas and Dietrich von Hildebrand on this point - with one reservation. Many, if not most, would add the proviso: "Unless the bishop in question is the Bishop of Rome." Some are quite unwilling to admit, even to themselves, that an occasion could ever arise when a Catholic should justifiably refuse obedience to the Sovereign Pontiff. However sincere such people may be, they display a lamentable ignorance of Church history and Catholic theology.


    These are beautifully written posts. So many thumbs up have been given.
    Lots of us here agree.

    I read what St. Thomas Aquinas wrote concerning the church and heresy. I could not have stopped going to the NO without this Saint's approval. Yes, even the Pope is involved or things just wouldn't be as they are today.

    What can we do to strengthen ourselves and resist modernism in a dynamic way?

    Catholic INfo is a real meeting place for us, but we may be able to resist the wave of destruction to Catholicism if we discuss some positive action, or possibilities to do something.

    Perhaps along the lines of finding a new state or country and some leaders from a royal family could support and rule a truly Catholic country.

    I believe there are still French Catholic royals who support SSPX, is that not true?


    Bishop Williamson has asked us to be patient during these dark times (although my heart and soul is crying out for action) and this may be the best advice. I'm hoping and praying that +Williamson and all the ex-SSPX priests will form together a society that will continue the True Faith and take the lead.

    Meanwhile IMHO, I feel it's our duty to let as many people aware (in our chapels) in seeing the differences in the paths the neo-SSPX is taking vs. the path that ABL had handed down to us.
    That 198 page docuмent is an excellent start in encouraging everyone to read.
     

    Offline Ekim

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    The quagmire of todays SSPX leadership
    « Reply #6 on: November 08, 2012, 03:56:48 PM »
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  • These questions were just posed by Catholic Family News.  I'd like to hear the SSPX answer them!

    Since the publication of this report in CFN, there have been a few more developments.

    1) On October 24, the SSPX expelled Bishop Richard Williamson. On the same day, Fr. Andreas Steiner, SSPX Media Spokesman in Germany, is reported to have said: “The decision [to expel Bishop Wiliamson] will certainly facilitate the talks.” I confess I find this to be a curious statement. It invites the question: if the present impasse is truly on a doctrinal level with Pope Benedict insisting the SSPX accept all of the Council and the licitness of the New Mass, how does the expulsion of Bishop Williamson change this in any way? With Bishop Williamson gone, will Pope Benedict now suddenly reverse himself and say the SSPX does not have to accept all of Vatican II, does not have to accept the 'goodness and licitness' of the New Mass?

    2) The Vatican’s Ecclesia Dei Commission announced on October 27 that work will continue with the SSPX in the hope of reaching some sort of Agreement. This appears yet the latest rendition of what Bishop Fellay earlier outlined as Rome's farcical reaction to the SSPX doctrinal discussions: we disagree, let's “let’s get together” anyway. Yet if it is true that Pope Benedict insists on SSPX accepting all of the Council, and if Bishop Fellay remains steadfast in refusing to accept all of the Council, how can any Accord be reached without one side or the other caving in? Especially when Bishop Fellay insists in the Adelaide Conference and in his recent talk in Kansas City that the SSPX will not give way on Vatican II? In fact, the United States' SSPX website noted yesterday that the Ecclesia Dei announcement appears to be an attempt to "put pressure on the Superior General, Bishop Fellay, to accept the CDF's docuмent of June 13, which he has rejected three times over."

    3) As I posted last week, we must remember the Vatican power of Romanita: “If you can out wait all, you can rule all.” May the SSPX continue to resist, and may they remain steadfast in their refusal of any compromise with the disastrous Second Vatican Council, which the modernist Cardinal Suenens celebrated as “the French Revolution in the Church.” – JV

    http://www.cfnews.org/page10/page60/no_rome_sspx_accord.html

    Offline Machabees

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    The quagmire of todays SSPX leadership
    « Reply #7 on: November 09, 2012, 12:23:08 AM »
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  • Quote from: GemmaGal


    What can we do to strengthen ourselves and resist modernism in a dynamic way?

    Catholic INfo is a real meeting place for us, but we may be able to resist the wave of destruction to Catholicism if we discuss some positive action, or possibilities to do something.



    In this new crisis of the SSPX (at least in the public domain anyway), I think so far, for starts, is getting informed on the issues.  Researching.  Learning both sides.  Discovering the "talking points".  Being prepared with questions to ask your priests, and any top tier priests that visit your chapel to give conferences.  Keep on them until they directly answer your question(s).  And so on...

    Post Falls did it with Fr. Rostand...with great results!

    Anything of the above and more to keep the faith in focus, their responsibilities before God, and the dangers that any compromise would effect, and of the long term consequences of any "deal" they look to do.

    In other words, to put "Holy" pressure on them so they can come to see the errors and novelties of their ways -verily try to convert them back.


    Offline Mea Culpa

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    The quagmire of todays SSPX leadership
    « Reply #8 on: November 09, 2012, 09:20:17 AM »
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  • Quote from: Machabees
    Quote from: GemmaGal


    What can we do to strengthen ourselves and resist modernism in a dynamic way?

    Catholic INfo is a real meeting place for us, but we may be able to resist the wave of destruction to Catholicism if we discuss some positive action, or possibilities to do something.



    In this new crisis of the SSPX (at least in the public domain anyway), I think so far, for starts, is getting informed on the issues.  Researching.  Learning both sides.  Discovering the "talking points".  Being prepared with questions to ask your priests, and any top tier priests that visit your chapel to give conferences.  Keep on them until they directly answer your question(s).  And so on...

    Post Falls did it with Fr. Rostand...with great results!

    Anything of the above and more to keep the faith in focus, their responsibilities before God, and the dangers that any compromise would effect, and of the long term consequences of any "deal" they look to do.

    In other words, to put "Holy" pressure on them so they can come to see the errors and novelties of their ways -verily try to convert them back.


    If the priest the faithful are "open" to discussing this, then it's a great idea. The problems arise when the priest himself has threatened the faithful not to discuss this amongst each other (and I do mean threatened in the forms of expelling them from the church).
     
    It's very saddening to know that the majority of SSPXers don't realize that the one True Faith we have all been Blessed with knowing.........is being betrayed and attempting to be married with ecuмenism. For what doth it profit a man, if he gain the whole world, and suffer the loss of his own soul? Or what exchange shall a man give for his soul?    


    We should inform as many as possible by printing and mailing or emailing the link below (which has (IMHO) been compiled very well).

    http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Awesome-resource-someone-has-done-it

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    The quagmire of todays SSPX leadership
    « Reply #9 on: November 09, 2012, 11:40:01 AM »
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  • Quote from: bowler
    Quote
    Does looking over the fence day dream the novelties for “recognition” with an inordinate affection?


    I don't understand what this means



    It's gotta be a typo.  But in such cases, one is left to surmise where the error is:


    Does [a] day dream, looking over the fence with an inordinate affection [verb] the novelties for “recognition”?

    Does looking over the day-dream-fence with an inordinate affection, [effect] the novelties for “recognition”?

    Does looking over the novelties fence the day-dream for “recognition” with an inordinate affection?

    Does [day-dreaming] with an inordinate affection, looking over, fence the novelties for “recognition”?

    Does inordinate affection looking over the day, dream the novelties for “recognition” with [a] fence?

    Does looking, with an inordinate affection for “recognition”, the over-the-fence day-dream novelties?

    Does an inordinate affection for novelties looking over the day-dream, fence “recognition” with the[m]?

    [W]ith an inordinate affection for “recognition”, [d]oes looking over the day-dream fence the novelties?

    Does an inordinate affection for “recognition” with the novelties, [in a] day-dream [while] looking over the fence [do something]?

    Does an inordinate affection, looking over the fence with day-[dreams] for “recognition” [enhance] the novelties?

    Does looking over an inordinate affection, fence the day-dream with novelties for the “recognition”?  

    Does [day-dreaming, while] looking over the fence [at] the novelties with an inordinate affection for “recognition” [do something]?

    Does looking over novelties with an inordinate affection, [evoke] the day-dream for “recognition” [of] the fence?

                                                           :confused1:




    When "day-dream" is used as a verb, it is intransitive in English.  This
    sentence, on the other hand, seems to demand that it suddenly become
    transitive, which offense to grammar renders the sentence unintelligible:



    Does looking over the fence day dream the novelties for “recognition” with an inordinate affection?

    It seems to attempt to make "the novelties" the object of an improperly transitive
    verb, "day dream."
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    The quagmire of todays SSPX leadership
    « Reply #10 on: November 09, 2012, 12:36:29 PM »
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  • Quote from: Ekim
    These questions were just posed by Catholic Family News.  I'd like to hear the SSPX answer them!

    Since the publication of this report in CFN, there have been a few more developments.

    1) On October 24, the SSPX expelled Bishop Richard Williamson. On the same day, Fr. Andreas Steiner, SSPX Media Spokesman in Germany, is reported to have said: “The decision [to expel Bishop Wiliamson] will certainly facilitate the talks.” I confess I find this to be a curious statement. It invites the question: if the present impasse is truly on a doctrinal level with Pope Benedict insisting the SSPX accept all of the Council and the licitness of the New Mass, how does the expulsion of Bishop Williamson change this in any way? With Bishop Williamson gone, will Pope Benedict now suddenly reverse himself and say the SSPX does not have to accept all of Vatican II, does not have to accept the 'goodness and licitness' of the New Mass?


    That's not a bad start, but it's not the whole enchilada, either.

    What about - With +W gone, will B16 now say, "Okay, that's one down, two
    more to go?" Or, will he take the Society for the chumps they are acting as,
    and demand that they continue to come around with their compromise of the
    Founder's principles? What will +Fellay do if the sudden shortage of bishops
    in the Society is met with B16's proposal that the Society accept a Novus
    Ordo bishop to "help out?"  - you know, as a "sign of good will?"

    Quote
    2) The Vatican’s Ecclesia Dei Commission announced on October 27 that work will continue with the SSPX in the hope of reaching some sort of Agreement. This appears yet the latest rendition of what Bishop Fellay earlier outlined as Rome's farcical reaction to the SSPX doctrinal discussions: we disagree, “let’s get together” anyway. Yet if it is true that Pope Benedict insists on SSPX accepting all of the Council, and if Bishop Fellay remains steadfast in refusing to accept all of the Council, how can any Accord be reached without one side or the other caving in? Especially when Bishop Fellay insists in the Adelaide Conference and in his recent talk in Kansas City that the SSPX will not give way on Vatican II? In fact, the United States' SSPX website noted yesterday that the Ecclesia Dei announcement appears to be an attempt to "put pressure on the Superior General, Bishop Fellay, to accept the CDF's docuмent of June 13, which he has rejected three times over."


    Can you imagine if instead of Eve walking past the Tree of the Knowledge of
    Good and Evil, it had been Our Blessed Mother: would she have paused to
    "dialogue" with the devil?  Or, as Canon Hesse claimed, "She would have had one
    thing to say to the serpent: 'Go Back To Hell, Where You Came From!'  and END
    the dialogue!"  I suspect rather, the latter.

    Pause just a moment and consider the implications.  A) There would have been
    no original sin, AND,   B) There would have been no consequences of original sin.

    Now, try to imagine some of the consequences of the SSPX making a false
    deal with apostate Rome.  Difficult to do, is it?  

    How about this: try to put yourself in Eve's place, and think, "How would Eve
    have been able to anticipate the consequences for tens of billions of people
    for thousands of years, if she pauses for a moment to "dialogue" with the
    serpent, instead of telling him to 'Go Back To Hell Where You Came From'?"

    Quote
    3) As I posted last week, we must remember the Vatican power of Romanita: “If you can out wait all, you can rule all.” May the SSPX continue to resist, and may they remain steadfast in their refusal of any compromise with the disastrous Second Vatican Council, which the modernist Cardinal Suenens celebrated as “the French Revolution in the Church.” – JV

    http://www.cfnews.org/page10/page60/no_rome_sspx_accord.html


    It looks like Vennari is scrambling for damage control.  He was starting to back
    away from the fight 'last week' by going soft on the accordistas.  But when
    enough subscribers notified him that they are going to cancel their subscription,
    he had to take notice.

    Let Vennari not forget, one of the earmarks of Romanita is, you do not back
    down, but rather, capitalize on your opponent backing down.  The Vatican
    doesn't show much sign of turning over a new leaf.  It's all window-dressing.  
    Vatican II is their false god, and they hold onto it with a tenacious grip, come
    what may.  Fortunately, these die-hard cardinals are in fact dying, and then
    there may be some light at the end of the tunnel!

    IOW, his own policy of "Romanita" isn't going to work with a large segment of his
    audience.  And he had better wise up, or else just become another "Remnant."



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