I agree, and this is why whenever I read something of grace on the Internet, I hesitate to post the link, because someone always comes along to criticise the messenger.  

Unless of course one is quoting an encyclical or writing of a theologian, Saint or pope, then a link is a good source for review.  

raise their voices in concern.

Voices in the wilderness. :dancing:

I recall Bernadette and I were branded 'voices in the wilderness' so you really can't win with SSPX folk.

You try to assist and you are mocked.

The people calling the shots in the SSPX cult are openly in league with Christ's enemies.

Of course they rely on cultural marxist smears.

The man calling the shots in the SSPX is Maximilian Krah.

Because its priests believe the SSPX is the Church. I had endless problems with folk on IA in the past who also believed that. They were its groupies then to be replaced by Menzingen groupies now. With such automatic support, the management can do what it wants and lead the Society anywhere.

So many things have happened to it in recent years indicating a definite change in direction. The GREC meetings, the new political orientation thanks to Max Krah, the marginalising of the bishops and changed objectives with regard to Rome.

Quote from: John Grace

Quote

raise their voices in concern.

Voices in the wilderness. :dancing:

I recall Bernadette and I were branded 'voices in the wilderness' so you really can't win with SSPX folk.

You try to assist and you are mocked.

I remember that...one thing I've learned, it is a waste of time trying to change the minds of the cult members...

That is because their process of logic is backwards. First, establish your desired conclusion: the SSPX is a comfortable stable spiritual home whose leaders are professional and caring. Second, confirm positive facts supporting this view: my parish priest is kind; our superior has a nice smile. Third, deny negative facts hindering this view: the expulsion of the bishop was his own fault; ABL always intended to integrate with Rome.  

Quote from: bernadette

Quote from: John Grace

Quote

raise their voices in concern.

Voices in the wilderness. :dancing:

I recall Bernadette and I were branded 'voices in the wilderness' so you really can't win with SSPX folk.

You try to assist and you are mocked.

I remember that...one thing I've learned, it is a waste of time trying to change the minds of the cult members...

That is because their process of logic is backwards.

First, establish your desired conclusion: the SSPX is a comfortable stable spiritual home whose leaders are professional and caring.

Second, confirm positive facts supporting this view: my parish priest is kind; our superior has a nice smile.

Third, deny negative facts hindering this view: the expulsion of the bishop was his own fault; ABL always intended to integrate with Rome.  

This works as far as it goes.  Their process of logic is backwards. And it does
not do any good to get mad at them and scold them for their backward thinking.  
That is, not usually.  It could work in limited applications when other factors are
in proper order - such as a dire emergency or a high stress situation, when the
recipient is in a vulnerable condition, like his favorite pet just died or his house
burnt down or he's having kidney stones.  

But what can be done?  Many times, it's a matter of missing information.  Some
key fact is simply not there.  

This is why +Fellay determined to keep concealed his April 15th 2012 response
to the Vatican's Doctrinal Preamble.  He knew that if it ever got out, the SSPX
Faithful (and priests!) would be INCREDULOUS.  What's amazing is, now we are
looking at ONE YEAR'S DELAY, and now these same people who would have
been scandalized a year ago are saying that "Well, that couldn't possibly be the
real deal -- +Fellay could never have written that!  Consider the source!  Why,
it is just more Internet rumors by +Williamson!  You see -- this is why he
deserved to be expelled!"  And so on..


.....come to think of it, we still haven't seen the Vatican's Doctrinal Preamble of
September 14th, A.D. 2011, have we?!   What's up with that????  So that makes
at least 4 docuмents we've never seen:  
1)  The Third Secret of Fatima,  
2)  The Balamand Agreement,  
3)  The Vatican Doctrinal Preamble of 9-14-11, and  
4)  Obama's certified Birth Certificate  --  okay, the recipe for Coca-Cola.


But find a priest who is open to logic AND whose mind is not entirely clouded,
AND who has not heard of The Recusant.  Surprisingly, they are rather common
in our sick world!  A lot of them are SSPX priests.  Can you imagine that?  There
are SSPX priests alive today, who can THINK, and they do not know that The
Recusant exists.  

Do not give them a website address.  Do them a favor and hand them a
physical copy of The Recusant.  Oh, you don't have one?  Well, then send Ed
an e-mail and give him your address, and he will send you one.  If you had sent
the e-mail requesting a copy two weeks ago, you would have it today.  

You can get extra copies or you can pull the staples out and make your own
copies.  At 11c a page that will come to $3.52 up to $5.28 per issue depending
on which issue you copy.  They are two-sided.  The American Xerox machines
do a great job because you have to reduce the print to about 95% to make it
fit the 8-1/2" x 11" format.  British standard is 8-1/4" x 11-5/8".  

The point is, when you hand someone a hard copy they can't deny that it's real.

The power of the printed page lives on.  This is what happened with the
printing press in the 16th century.  It's been 500 years now.  

Issue 5 is great because it contains a compelling exposee of GREC.  Now, you
could jabber on and on about GREC, even using the French name if you like,
and the typical Accordista will sneer and ridicule you, saying it's a fantasy.  Or,
the well-meaning but uninformed SSPX Faithful will be confused, because they
haven't heard about it from their priest in his sermons, and they haven't seen
BOO about it on DICI or sspx.org or in CFN or the Remnant.  So how can it be
real?  You can tell them to sign up for Eleison Comments, but you can check
back every month for a year and they will not have done it.  Why? Well,
because -- that's Bishop Williamson's forbidden newsletter and it's a sin to read
it.  But take that same ill-informed lemming and hand him (or her) a hard
copy of The Recusant and something magical happens.  

You can see the lights come on!!  You can point at the left corner and say,
"That's St. Thomas More."  Then point at the right corner and say, "That's St.
John Fisher."  Hear them go, "Oh, yeah!"  That's the "Oh, yeah! factor."

This really works.  And it's easy.

It's a fine line between holding off on integrating with Rome because Rome is
still lost in apostasy, and becoming enshrined in the principle that it's okay to
keep yourself at a comfortable distance from Rome -- like forever, that is.  

The Recusant walks the fine line.  It is the narrow way.  But broad is the path
that leads to perdition, and many are they who go that way.

Quote from: Wessex

Quote from: bernadette

Quote from: John Grace

Quote

raise their voices in concern.

Voices in the wilderness. :dancing:

I recall Bernadette and I were branded 'voices in the wilderness' so you really can't win with SSPX folk.

You try to assist and you are mocked.

I remember that...one thing I've learned, it is a waste of time trying to change the minds of the cult members...

That is because their process of logic is backwards.

First, establish your desired conclusion: the SSPX is a comfortable stable spiritual home whose leaders are professional and caring.

Second, confirm positive facts supporting this view: my parish priest is kind; our superior has a nice smile.

Third, deny negative facts hindering this view: the expulsion of the bishop was his own fault; ABL always intended to integrate with Rome.  

This works as far as it goes.  Their process of logic is backwards. And it does
not do any good to get mad at them and scold them for their backward thinking.  
That is, not usually.  It could work in limited applications when other factors are
in proper order - such as a dire emergency or a high stress situation, when the
recipient is in a vulnerable condition, like his favorite pet just died or his house
burnt down or he's having kidney stones.  

But what can be done?  Many times, it's a matter of missing information.  Some
key fact is simply not there.  

This is why +Fellay determined to keep concealed his April 15th 2012 response
to the Vatican's Doctrinal Preamble.  He knew that if it ever got out, the SSPX
Faithful (and priests!) would be INCREDULOUS.  What's amazing is, now we are
looking at ONE YEAR'S DELAY, and now these same people who would have
been scandalized a year ago are saying that "Well, that couldn't possibly be the
real deal -- +Fellay could never have written that!  Consider the source!  Why,
it is just more Internet rumors by +Williamson!  You see -- this is why he
deserved to be expelled!"  And so on..


.....come to think of it, we still haven't seen the Vatican's Doctrinal Preamble of
September 14th, A.D. 2011, have we?!   What's up with that????  So that makes
at least 4 docuмents we've never seen:  
1)  The Third Secret of Fatima,  
2)  The Balamand Agreement,  
3)  The Vatican Doctrinal Preamble of 9-14-11, and  
4)  Obama's certified Birth Certificate  --  okay, the recipe for Coca-Cola.


But find a priest who is open to logic AND whose mind is not entirely clouded,
AND who has not heard of The Recusant.  Surprisingly, they are rather common
in our sick world!  A lot of them are SSPX priests.  Can you imagine that?  There
are SSPX priests alive today, who can THINK, and they do not know that The
Recusant exists.  

Do not give them a website address.  Do them a favor and hand them a
physical copy of The Recusant.  Oh, you don't have one?  Well, then send Ed
an e-mail and give him your address, and he will send you one.  If you had sent
the e-mail requesting a copy two weeks ago, you would have it today.  

You can get extra copies or you can pull the staples out and make your own
copies.  At 11c a page that will come to $3.52 up to $5.28 per issue depending
on which issue you copy.  They are two-sided.  The American Xerox machines
do a great job because you have to reduce the print to about 95% to make it
fit the 8-1/2" x 11" format.  British standard is 8-1/4" x 11-5/8".  

The point is, when you hand someone a hard copy they can't deny that it's real.

The power of the printed page lives on.  This is what happened with the
printing press in the 16th century.  It's been 500 years now.  

Issue 5 is great because it contains a compelling exposee of GREC.  Now, you
could jabber on and on about GREC, even using the French name if you like,
and the typical Accordista will sneer and ridicule you, saying it's a fantasy.  Or,
the well-meaning but uninformed SSPX Faithful will be confused, because they
haven't heard about it from their priest in his sermons, and they haven't seen
BOO about it on DICI or sspx.org or in CFN or the Remnant.  So how can it be
real?  You can tell them to sign up for Eleison Comments, but you can check
back every month for a year and they will not have done it.  Why? Well,
because -- that's Bishop Williamson's forbidden newsletter and it's a sin to read
it.  But take that same ill-informed lemming and hand him (or her) a hard
copy of The Recusant and something magical happens.  

You can see the lights come on!!  You can point at the left corner and say,
"That's St. Thomas More."  Then point at the right corner and say, "That's St.
John Fisher."  Hear them go, "Oh, yeah!"  That's the "Oh, yeah! factor."

This really works.  And it's easy.

It's a fine line between holding off on integrating with Rome because Rome is
still lost in apostasy, and becoming enshrined in the principle that it's okay to
keep yourself at a comfortable distance from Rome -- like forever, that is.  

The Recusant walks the fine line.  It is the narrow way.  But broad is the path
that leads to perdition, and many are they who go that way.

A good analysis and commentary here.