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Offline Raphaela

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The Meaning of Una Cum
« on: April 22, 2018, 01:37:22 PM »
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  • Is the meaning of Una Cum being misunderstood? If some sede priests can say "una cum Petro" instead of the pope's name, do they think it means "we are praying together with Peter? But it just means "we are praying for the Church and our Pope and our Bishop and all true believers, etc." So they are actually praying for St. Peter!

    The prayer says, abbreviated: "O most merciful Father ... vouchsafe to receive and bless these gifts, these offerings, this holy and unblemished sacrifice. These in the first place we offer up to Thee for Thy holy Catholic Church, that it may please Thee to grant her peace, to protect, unite and govern her throughout the world, together with Thy servant N. our Pope, and N. our bishop, and all true believers and professors of the Catholic and Apostolic Faith."

    So we are praying for the Church and the Pope and the Bishop and the Faithful, not specifically with them, in this case. "Una cum" simply means "as well as".  

    Offline PG

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    Re: The Meaning of Una Cum
    « Reply #1 on: April 23, 2018, 11:18:31 AM »
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  • Raphaela - I found that part of sean's una cum essay about how some vacantists pray una cum petro very interesting.  These are the same people that think the 1962 liturgy is flawed to the point of being bad because of its innovations and changes.  I have also heard that they would say things like una cum "roman see".  Whereas fr. jenkins simply skips over that section instead of adding to fill the void.  Vacantists(including jenkins) specifically think that the una cum is a declaration of faith that they are one in faith with the pope, as if we could judge the pope and that he has been judged.  But, that is not indicated by the prayer.  It really is essentially a "prayer for" rather than a "declaration of".  That is what we need to emphasize.    

    Most importantly, I believe that the only way the papacy will recover is by gradual improvement, as opposed to the silly solutions vacantists will mention("God himself will come down from heaven and right the papacy").  I can account to this in my own life.  I may be passionate about my faith, but I will not be able to do the right thing until I fill my head with the right ideas/teaching.  The same will go for a modernist pope.  They really are ignorant of the teachings of the church.  Because, the teachings of the church are a sword that pierces the heart.  And, that is not happening with these modernists.  And, it is not because ambiguity, novelty, and contradiction are stronger than our lord who teaches that his "words will never pass away".  It is because they are negligent and therefore ignorant.  

    And, if filling ones head with the right ideas takes time, then conversion and improvement in rome will take time.  And, gradualism utilizes small changes.  But, vacantist hatred for these popes assumes that even traditional small change is really just an indication of evil intent to co-opt.  That is evil thinking.  And, I am not an fellay supporter.  But, I do believe that one thing that will without question aid that gradual reform process is prayer for the pope.  And, there is no better place to pray for a pope than at the most heightened prayer of the church.  But, vacantists in general, all of them, even fr. jenkins, who by different means certainly is a vacantiwst, refuse to prayer for the pope.  They refuse to wish good on these men wearing the white cassock in rome.  They wish evil on him.  And, that is why sedevacantism is such an error.  It fuels their evil.  

    There was recently a thread where we discussed praying death on people and particularly on the pope.  If we could prayer for the death of a wicked pope.  And, I rejected that idea and cited authoritative church teaching in my defense.  We cannot pray evil on these popes.  Hate is really the heart of the problem.  Vacantists hate francis.  And, they hate him because their god is the papacy.  And, that is idolatry.  These sedevacantists are idolaters.  The papacy is not our god.  The papacy is a creature.  It is an instrument.  Jesus says if you love me you will keep my commandments.  He did not say if you love me you will idolize my vicar. 
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: The Meaning of Una Cum
    « Reply #2 on: April 23, 2018, 11:23:26 AM »
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  • If I were a priest, I would say "una cum papa nostro" while leaving out the name ... since it's hard to list Bergoglio among a list of cultores fidei ... keepers/guardians of the faith.

    Offline PG

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    Re: The Meaning of Una Cum
    « Reply #3 on: April 23, 2018, 11:58:38 AM »
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  • If I were a priest, I would say "una cum papa nostro" while leaving out the name ... since it's hard to list Bergoglio among a list of cultores fidei ... keepers/guardians of the faith.
    More misdirection from ladislaus, who now admits the church has a pope, in contradiction to all the other theories he pushes.  Instead of the talmudic "if you are going to tell a lie, tell a big lie" method, for spies it is " if you are going to tell a lie, tell many small lies".  
    "A secure mind is like a continual feast" - Proverbs xv: 15

     

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