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Author Topic: The Continuing Saga, Part IV- more money talk  (Read 3745 times)

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Offline hollingsworth

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The Continuing Saga, Part IV- more money talk
« on: October 05, 2015, 10:18:15 AM »
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  •  We’ve already written about a couple of matters concerning money, i.e.Fr. Voigt’s money,  and the seminary at Boston, KY.   We are now well acquainted with Father’s largess in this regard.  Yet that fact never prevented accusations of theft against Father by both Fr. Pfeiffer and Pablo.  In his “open letter,” Father V. writes:

    “On another note let us consider the question of money which so occupies your (Fr. P’s) mind.  The claim is made by yourself and Pablo that I have stolen from you by not giving over the collections which were taken at the Masses which I offered.
    You have never given me any other guidelines than that which is made out to the seminary goes to the seminary.  All cash and checks made out to me are meant for my account.  For the last 14 months I have paid my way and never asked for any reimbursement.  Every check designated for you or the seminary went to you.  Instead I have been more than generous with the seminary and you for that matter and even for Pablo. ..”


    I don’t think any knowledgeable person can argue that Fr. Voigt did not pay his way.  He not only paid his way, but helped out the seminary in many other ways financially, during that 14 month period.

    I enquired yesterday (Oct. 4, 2015) by email about a sum of $10,000 which he donated, (not loaned) to Fr. Pfeiffer and the OLMC.  This sum is mentioned in his “open letter,” and I reprint that segment below.  But first, let me quote from Father’s email answer the same day.  It will help our understanding.  You see, the seminary building was in much need of repair, especially the roof.  The need had already been duly acknowledged, and a couple of the men there with building experience intended to do something about it.  Father V writes:

    Oct. 4, 2015 email from Fr. V:
    I told Father (Pfeiffer) that I would offer a check of $10,000 to be used for improvements in the seminary structure.  I was teaching at St. James Academy (in Louisville, KY) and was receiving monthly checks for the service.  I would only visit the community at times and had no knowledge of how things were going.  Fr. Pfeiffer sent Pablo and Fr. Chazal up to Louisville to pick up my donation. I never received any acknowledgement, nor any information on how the funds were used.


    Yes, that’s right.  Father has not heard to this day how that $10,000 donation was used.  Yet he had the right to know under the reporting provisions of a 501c3 tax exempt organization.  Donors have a right to know how their donations to a non-profit have been used.

    Father mentions that $10,000 gift in his “open letter:”

    “…., on December 12, 2013 I gave you (Fr. Pfeiffer) a check for $10,000 for the specific need of replacing the seminarian's roof.  You continue to say that you want to expand the structure and so the roof remains a mess.  If you are not going to use the funds (if they are still there), then return them to the donor who designated them for a specific purpose.”

    That $10,000 dollars apparently disappeared down a rabbit hole.  We’ll probably never learn what really happened with them.  

    I made recent inquiries of a person in Boston, Ky well acquainted with the seminary compound.  To this person’s knowledge there is no visual evidence that any structural improvement has been made.  It is still a “mess” to this very day.

       
     


    Offline AJNC

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    The Continuing Saga, Part IV- more money talk
    « Reply #1 on: October 05, 2015, 11:16:44 AM »
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  • I remember that Francisco sounded out warnings on this very forum of the need for financial accountability by the Resistance, from the very early days of its existence. In those heady days these warnings did not go down well.


    Offline hollingsworth

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    The Continuing Saga, Part IV- more money talk
    « Reply #2 on: October 05, 2015, 03:34:34 PM »
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  • The problem seems to be, at least in part, that the accounting procedures within the OLMC non-profit organization, if they even exist, are so shabbily carried out, and carelessly attended to, that one can never be sure where money has come from, where it is going, or for what specific projects it has been targeted.  This is the overall impression I have received, subject, of course, to correction and amendment.

    Offline MaterDominici

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    The Continuing Saga, Part IV- more money talk
    « Reply #3 on: October 05, 2015, 04:39:57 PM »
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  • Quote from: hollingsworth
    The problem seems to be, at least in part, that the accounting procedures within the OLMC non-profit organization, if they even exist, are so shabbily carried out, and carelessly attended to, that one can never be sure where money has come from, where it is going, or for what specific projects it has been targeted.  This is the overall impression I have received, subject, of course, to correction and amendment.


    This isn't surprising in and of itself as even the SSPX doesn't follow proper non-profit accounting practices, but you don't have to do these things perfectly in order to do them well. One basic is that you DO need to keep records of donations so that you can supply tax receipts to those who wish to have them. Another basic is that when you receive a large donation for a specific purpose, you go ahead and accomplish that task as soon as possible before you lose track of what you were supposed to do with that money. Now, it's hard for the purpose of a $10,000 donation to "slip your mind" especially when your organization only consists of 2-4 people, so there's really no excuse for not having used the money as intended or at least still have it available.
    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson

    Offline Matthew

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    The Continuing Saga, Part IV- more money talk
    « Reply #4 on: October 05, 2015, 04:49:33 PM »
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  • Quote from: MaterDominici
    Quote from: hollingsworth
    The problem seems to be, at least in part, that the accounting procedures within the OLMC non-profit organization, if they even exist, are so shabbily carried out, and carelessly attended to, that one can never be sure where money has come from, where it is going, or for what specific projects it has been targeted.  This is the overall impression I have received, subject, of course, to correction and amendment.


    This isn't surprising in and of itself as even the SSPX doesn't follow proper non-profit accounting practices, but you don't have to do these things perfectly in order to do them well. One basic is that you DO need to keep records of donations so that you can supply tax receipts to those who wish to have them. Another basic is that when you receive a large donation for a specific purpose, you go ahead and accomplish that task as soon as possible before you lose track of what you were supposed to do with that money. Now, it's hard for the purpose of a $10,000 donation to "slip your mind" especially when your organization only consists of 2-4 people, so there's really no excuse for not having used the money as intended or at least still have it available.


    When MaterDominici gives her input on something accounting-related, y'all take heed, as she's an authority on the subject.
    She completed a 5 year Accounting degree (in 4 years) and is a former licensed CPA. She only gave it up to raise a family.


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    Offline MaterDominici

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    The Continuing Saga, Part IV- more money talk
    « Reply #5 on: October 05, 2015, 05:18:20 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    When MaterDominici gives her input on something accounting-related, y'all take heed, as she's an authority on the subject.
    She completed a 5 year Accounting degree (in 4 years) and is a former licensed CPA. She only gave it up to raise a family.


    And some people like to draw attention to themselves more than others.  :wink:

    There are plenty of accounting things that I don't know or have forgotten, but I was employed by a charitable non-profit for several years. It doesn't take a CPA, though, to know that you should do a bit of record-keeping when you're taking donations from the public.
    "I think that Catholicism, that's as sane as people can get."  - Jordan Peterson

    Offline hollingsworth

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    The Continuing Saga, Part IV- more money talk
    « Reply #6 on: October 05, 2015, 05:45:56 PM »
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  • MD:
    Quote
    Now, it's hard for the purpose of a $10,000 donation to "slip your mind" especially when your organization only consists of 2-4 people, so there's really no excuse for not having used the money as intended or at least still have it available.


    Exactly!  And that's the point to keep in mind.  A check for 10,000 big ones was written to the order of 'Fr. P. & Co.', (or whatever account name appeared on the check).  Fr. P sent Fr. Chazal and Pablo scurrying off to Louisville in order to pick it up.  A cancelled check, or the nowadays electronically transferred equivalent of it showed up a while later in Father V.'s statement.  So, the check was written and delivered.  The prize was claimed.  It was cashed or deposited.  Thereafter, 'Alice' took the proceeds and vanished through the 'looking glass.'  They haven't been seen since.  The roof is still a "mess."

    Offline hollingsworth

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    The Continuing Saga, Part IV- more money talk
    « Reply #7 on: October 05, 2015, 08:02:08 PM »
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  •   MC:
    Quote
    My Response: I am well acquainted with the grounds. This claim is incorrect. There have been many alterations made to the seminary since July 2013. Many of these improvements have been aided by Pablo himself.

    Some notable improvements include (but are not limited to):

    - Seminary kitchen remodel: New cabinets and tops, stove/ oven combo, microwave, stand-alone freezer, fridge, storage for the kitchen; drywall replacement and mold removal

    - Seminary bathroom remodel

    - House near Church: interior remodeled entirely

    - New office space installed near priest house

    - New blacktop

    - other repairs throughout the property


    I guess an argument can be made that some of these improvements were made with the $10,000 dollar gift from Fr. V.  I think, though, that we can eliminate "New blacktop," and other paving projects.  That was done with Father's $22,000 loan, plus $31,000 from the sale of stock from the woman in CA, plus another $6,000 loan from her, plus $12,000 from Fr. P's own mother. I don't think we can include the $10,000 in that pile of cash.

    Some of the other listed improvements? Possibly, though none of these alleged improvements include the roof, for which the $10,000 was originally earmarked. If some of those alterations listed above were made with a portion of Father V's gift, then they had to have occurred after Dec 12, 2013. But MC points to alterations being made from July 2013 on, i.e. before Father's donation ever came through.

    I do not recall Fr. V telling me, anyway, that any portion of that gift was designated for interior alterations or appliances.  It was all exterior structural stuff.  I think MC may be reaching a bit here.


    Offline JPaul

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    The Continuing Saga, Part IV- more money talk
    « Reply #8 on: October 05, 2015, 08:29:56 PM »
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  • Quote from: ManuelChavez
    Original message: I made recent inquiries of a person in Boston, Ky well acquainted with the seminary compound.  To this person’s knowledge there is no visual evidence that any structural improvement has been made.  It is still a “mess” to this very day.

    My Response: I am well acquainted with the grounds. This claim is incorrect. There have been many alterations made to the seminary since July 2013. Many of these improvements have been aided by Pablo himself.

    Some notable improvements include (but are not limited to):

    - Seminary kitchen remodel: New cabinets and tops, stove/ oven combo, microwave, stand-alone freezer, fridge, storage for the kitchen; drywall replacement and mold removal

    - Seminary bathroom remodel

    - House near Church: interior remodeled entirely

    - New office space installed near priest house

    - New blacktop

    - other repairs throughout the property

    These are just a few changes I can recall off the top of my head. These repairs weren't cheap, but they were done.


    But not the roof, for which the money was donated. And do remember that this was from their brother priest who was working with those to whom he directly transferred the money.

    The more that you defend this enterprise, the worse it looks for the participants.

    Offline TheRealMcCoy

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    The Continuing Saga, Part IV- more money talk
    « Reply #9 on: October 05, 2015, 08:31:59 PM »
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  • IRS Fraud Hotline

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    Offline JPaul

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    The Continuing Saga, Part IV- more money talk
    « Reply #10 on: October 06, 2015, 07:33:43 AM »
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  • Quote from: ManuelChavez
    I told Father (Pfeiffer) that I would offer a check of $10,000 to be used for improvements in the seminary structure.

    And …

    “on December 12, 2013 I gave you (Fr. Pfeiffer) a check for $10,000 for the specific need of replacing the seminarian's roof.

    My response: There is an inconsistency here with the statements provided. While the latter specifically states that the money was for the roof, the former can be applied to the seminary in general, not just the roof.


    There is no inconsistency, the first being a statement of the general purpose of the gift, the second being the specific purpose, which is perfectly consistent with the first. You are operating on the presumption that Father is dissembling. It is quite apparent that he is not.

    Playing with words will not save the sect from its broken promises and mismanagement of funds.  You make them look more guilty with every such word.


    Offline Wessex

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    The Continuing Saga, Part IV- more money talk
    « Reply #11 on: October 06, 2015, 09:41:07 AM »
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  • Quote from: J.Paul
    Quote from: ManuelChavez
    I told Father (Pfeiffer) that I would offer a check of $10,000 to be used for improvements in the seminary structure.

    And …

    “on December 12, 2013 I gave you (Fr. Pfeiffer) a check for $10,000 for the specific need of replacing the seminarian's roof.

    My response: There is an inconsistency here with the statements provided. While the latter specifically states that the money was for the roof, the former can be applied to the seminary in general, not just the roof.


    There is no inconsistency, the first being a statement of the general purpose of the gift, the second being the specific purpose, which is perfectly consistent with the first. You are operating on the presumption that Father is dissembling. It is quite apparent that he is not.

    Playing with words will not save the sect from its broken promises and mismanagement of funds.  You make them look more guilty with every such word.



    Fr. P does not seem the type to bother with fine bookkeeping. He will be largely hand to mouth these days and will be frantically mixing up his incomings and outgoings and hoping there will be something left over to plug that hole in the roof caused by a broken tile. He should not endeavour to repair it himself otherwise there will be more broken tiles!

    I feel the aggrieved priest should chalk it up to experience like I did when seeing my contributions to trad causes be used for other purposes. Fr. V may feel he is being 'bailed in' and Fr. P will justify the sequence of events using the state of emergency as an excuse. Ah, a good old Lefebvrist tactic!

    The general excuse will be all monies are being use to serve God and churchmen tend to flog this one to death. Except when they themselves use the law to rob the laity of their possessions. The SSPX is good at doing this. Same old, same old.                                                                                                                                                                    

    Offline hollingsworth

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    The Continuing Saga, Part IV- more money talk
    « Reply #12 on: October 06, 2015, 09:50:18 AM »
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  • ManuelChavez:
    Quote
    I am not condemning either party, and neither should anyone else, for no one here has the full story, or even half the story.


    I think we have to decide who has at least "half the story," Manuel Chavez" or Fr. Richard Voigt.  There is no question in my mind that MC knows far less of the real story than Fr. Voight.

    A couple of you have stated that you can take my word for it.  OK, I'll just pass along another bit of intelligence which I've gotten recently from two impeccable sources, at least I consider them to be.  These two individuals, well acquainted with the situation on the ground in Boston, KY, tell me that Martin Chavez's real name is Martin Doherty, that he is, or was, a seminary student at OLMC.

    Have I got it right, Manuel Chavez?  Is your name really Martin Doherty?  Were you, or are you,  in Fr. Pfeiffer's seminary, and perhaps the only student there presently?

    Offline ManuelChavez

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    The Continuing Saga, Part IV- more money talk
    « Reply #13 on: October 06, 2015, 10:41:43 AM »
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  • Quote from: hollingsworth
    ManuelChavez:
    Quote
    I am not condemning either party, and neither should anyone else, for no one here has the full story, or even half the story.


    I think we have to decide who has at least "half the story," Manuel Chavez" or Fr. Richard Voigt.  There is no question in my mind that MC knows far less of the real story than Fr. Voight.

    A couple of you have stated that you can take my word for it.  OK, I'll just pass along another bit of intelligence which I've gotten recently from two impeccable sources, at least I consider them to be.  These two individuals, well acquainted with the situation on the ground in Boston, KY, tell me that Martin Chavez's real name is Martin Doherty, that he is, or was, a seminary student at OLMC,  and that he is, to put it graciously, is a bit troubled.

    Have I got it right, Manuel Chavez?  Is your name really Martin Doherty?  Were you, or are you,  in Fr. Pfeiffer's seminary, and perhaps the only student there presently?


    My response: No one has to decide, nor should anyone here attempt to do so. I am not here to confirm or deny the stories that have been so unfortunately passed about. I am here to remind all of you the charity each of us owes to his enemies as well as his friends.

     [43] You have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thy enemy. [44] But I say to you, Love your enemies: do good to them that hate you: and pray for them that persecute and calumniate you: [45] That you may be the children of your Father who is in heaven, who maketh his sun to rise upon the good, and bad, and raineth upon the just and the unjust.

    It is unfortunate that many here have demanded an eye for an eye.

    I have read many things on this site. I have heard from others about this situation. What is lost here is that Pablo, despite his problems, is still a child of God.

    No one here has the full story. I ask that you reserve judgment, and that you show more charity to all involved.

    God will handle the rest. Pray, hope and do not worry.

    Offline JPaul

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    The Continuing Saga, Part IV- more money talk
    « Reply #14 on: October 06, 2015, 11:06:20 AM »
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  • Quote from: ManuelChavez
    J. Paul ... there is an inconsistency, which means that there may have been some miscommunication between the priests as to the nature of the money. This is also incomplete, and we do not have all the facts in this case.

    In any case, if the money had been misappropriated entirely, then why would Father donate more time of money long after this scenario unfolded?

    I am not condemning either party, and neither should anyone else, for no one here has the full story, or even half the story.


    We have the fact as communicated by Father Voigt whom we have no reason at all to doubt. Father knows what he has said.
    Now, as I have heard there were accusations of theft etc. by the Kentucky sect against Father Voigt, which when the full story is known can be seen to have been false characterizations.  Was this also a simple miscommunication?
    This is evidence of bad will. Now who is most likely to be telling the truth?

    Father Pfeiffer has been at this juncture with his assistant a number of times from early on in the group's existence. Unless he does what needs to be done, and what should probably been done long ago, he must bear the responsibility for the demise of his groups reputation. I do not think that he will have another chance to repair the damage. He has become isolated and will have no one left save a few personality cultists.

    As it is, there is more than sufficient of the story to place this group on the definite full stop red light list until they set their house in order.