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Author Topic: The Church as a mere political unity  (Read 789 times)

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Offline SJB

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The Church as a mere political unity
« on: December 28, 2013, 10:48:35 AM »
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    • Quote from: Pete Vere
    Quote from: SJB
    The problem is greater than simply the heretical pope and I think your erroneous view of the Church as a mere political unity is what has blinded you.


    That's an interesting comment. Usually critics of my ecclesiology accuse me of taking a sacramental view of the Church, or a mystical view in keeping with Pius XII's Mystici Corporis. So I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on why you think my view of the Church is political?


    Pius XII also defined membership in the Church based on the visibility of Her members. The point is that this visibility isn't a mere political unity, but a common government and Faith. I believe you focus on the former and act as if the latter is simply unknowable.

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    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline SJB

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    The Church as a mere political unity
    « Reply #1 on: January 02, 2014, 09:45:59 AM »
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    • Quote from: SJB
    Quote from: Pete Vere
    Quote from: SJB
    The problem is greater than simply the heretical pope and I think your erroneous view of the Church as a mere political unity is what has blinded you.


    That's an interesting comment. Usually critics of my ecclesiology accuse me of taking a sacramental view of the Church, or a mystical view in keeping with Pius XII's Mystici Corporis. So I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on why you think my view of the Church is political?


    Pius XII also defined membership in the Church based on the visibility of Her members. The point is that this visibility isn't a mere political unity, but a common government and Faith. I believe you focus on the former and act as if the latter is simply unknowable.




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    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline SJB

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    The Church as a mere political unity
    « Reply #2 on: January 02, 2014, 02:25:16 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pete Vere
    So I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on why you think my view of the Church is political?


    Either Pete Vere hasn't seen this or he's not as interested as he thought ...
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    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline SJB

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    The Church as a mere political unity
    « Reply #3 on: January 04, 2014, 10:18:41 AM »
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    • Quote from: SJB
    Quote from: Pete Vere
    So I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on why you think my view of the Church is political?


    Either Pete Vere hasn't seen this or he's not as interested as he thought ...


    However, I am still interested. Pete, where are you?
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    It would be comparatively easy for us to be holy if only we could always see the character of our neighbours either in soft shade or with the kindly deceits of moonlight upon them. Of course, we are not to grow blind to evil

    Offline Charlemagne

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    The Church as a mere political unity
    « Reply #4 on: January 04, 2014, 12:18:58 PM »
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    • Sadly, this is true. I'd say most "Catholics" today view their membership in the Church as akin to belonging to a political party. They attend a rally ("Mass") once a week (if that) and pay their dues (fill the collection basket), but I bet most of them would be hard pressed to even say the Grace Before Meals prayer. They know the party's mantra ("Peace, Love, and Other BS"), but they have no idea what the party believes.
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    "This principle is most certain: The non-Christian cannot in any way be Pope. The reason for this is that he cannot be head of what he is not a member. Now, he who is not a Christian is not a member of the Church, and a manifest heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St. Cyprian, St. Athanasius, St. Augustine, St. Jerome, and others. Therefore, the manifest heretic cannot be Pope." -- St. Robert Bellarmine

    Offline Charlemagne

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    The Church as a mere political unity
    « Reply #5 on: January 04, 2014, 12:27:54 PM »
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    • I hasten to add to the above that the "party" I'm talking about is the Conciliar Church, not the Church. The Church is the spotless bride; the Conciliar Church is a whore.
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    "This principle is most certain: The non-Christian cannot in any way be Pope. The reason for this is that he cannot be head of what he is not a member. Now, he who is not a Christian is not a member of the Church, and a manifest heretic is not a Christian, as is clearly taught by St. Cyprian, St. Athanasius, St. Augustine, St. Jerome, and others. Therefore, the manifest heretic cannot be Pope." -- St. Robert Bellarmine
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