Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: Infiguris on December 10, 2014, 06:55:53 AM
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And whom shall we see here?
http://gloria.tv/media/VkqwC8p5ceW
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I share the OP's dismay at what this video reveals. Specifically, could it really be that the salaries of midlevel Eurotrash bureaucrats and elected officials are so small that they are compelled to buy their suits off the rack at K-Mart?
I'm sure others will moan at length about Bishop Fellay, so I herewith depart the scene to say a few prayers for the speedy revival of the lost skill of tailoring.
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I wish someone would give a synopsis of the interview with the Bishop for us. He looked much too happy and flattered to be there. Perhaps he has forgotten all that this European Parliament has done to strip Europe of all that remains of its Catholic heritage. Not to mention the member country's rights to determine their own laws such as those that outlaw abortion or ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity. To see a nativity scene there is quite a contradiction to their agenda. One has to wonder how it came about.
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I'm much more confused about how Bishop Fellay got invited there by European politicians in the first place.
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Not to mention the member country's rights to determine their own laws such as those that outlaw abortion or ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity.
Individual countries joined the EU of their own volition. They have no one but themselves to blame if they don't like the results.
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i cannot access the video, can someone put up a photo please?
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I didn't catch the part where he said, "the power of Christ compels you" in French.
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I wish someone would give a synopsis of the interview with the Bishop for us. He looked much too happy and flattered to be there. Perhaps he has forgotten all that this European Parliament has done to strip Europe of all that remains of its Catholic heritage. Not to mention the member country's rights to determine their own laws such as those that outlaw abortion or ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity. To see a nativity scene there is quite a contradiction to their agenda. One has to wonder how it came about.
It's probably just a cover. Too many people are waking up to their agenda, so they are giving the appearance of religious observance.
It's a bit like Novus Ordo priests suddenly giving sermons on sin whenever the utterances from Rome become too wild. They are trying to reassure the people that everything is alright, that nothing has really changed.
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can't see a thing :(
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I suspect it is more likely that there are a small group of anti-masons who have got themselves elected as politicians and bureaucrats and they deliberately organise a crib to provoke the Freemasons and anti-Christian camp.
Not everyone working in the EU parliament is godless corrupt bureaucrat. Just most of them.
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I wish someone would give a synopsis of the interview with the Bishop for us. He looked much too happy and flattered to be there. Perhaps he has forgotten all that this European Parliament has done to strip Europe of all that remains of its Catholic heritage. Not to mention the member country's rights to determine their own laws such as those that outlaw abortion or ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity. To see a nativity scene there is quite a contradiction to their agenda. One has to wonder how it came about.
Bishop Fellay is at the European Parliament because he has the courage to enter the Lion's Den.
Bishop Fellay says the Nativity Creche in the public spaces of Europe and America is simple honesty. He says everything those nations have become they owe to the Nativity of Our Lord Jesus Christ and the public Nativity Creche is simple recognition of this truth such that even atheists ought to be able to recognise the fact. He says this requires courage. These are sufficiently hard words and he speaks them well with a friendly smile.
His words here show him to be a man who is not lacking in courage. In this video he shows himself to be a bishop of the Church of Rome. He shows he is worthy of respect.
He is some sort of Jesuit and I am a Franciscan, but despite everything I must respect him for what he does in this video. And when some sort of Jesuit like Bishop Fellay commands the respect of a Franciscan like me, then he is entitled to the respect of every Catholic. He is entitled to our respect.
May the Good Lord bless Bishop Fellay!
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Has anybody seen a translation of all the speaker's comments yet? Certainly, the Bishop could not have said that Americans and Europeans have Our Lord to thank for the dismal mess they are in? Surely he knows, that almost no where in America is allowed a creche in the Public spaces--because the Anti-Christians and the atheists have prevailed? Hopefully, someone in Europe will have access to the announcements of this happening, and the hows and whyfors of Bp. Fellay's presence will be understood.
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Not particularly characteristic of the bishop in recent times although this could be seen as an attempt to preserve a culture rather than a theology. There is still some yardage in the promotion of the 'mother and child' image as any entrepreneur will tell you. This can work on two fronts: the family one and the residual cultural one. Of course, up against these themes is a highly influential and organised counter-culture which is working against the family and reminders of our Christian past.
Behind the bishop's thinking there may be the idea that the culture is in need of a champion if it to survive and a partial return to tradition, exploiting its picturesque superficial aspects, may encounter less hostility in the mainstream church and not be such a challenge in the secular world. This approach is not at odds with the SSPX's liberal reforms and could be seen in that light upon closer examination.
Being seen inside the European Parliament building can be construed as accepting the European Project but the irony is so many of its members there would like to see it closed down and return to national independence and these members are among the most traditionally minded. Giving this institution of the NWO a Christian face may be a brave move but is this not another attempt at some accommodation with those with real power and will this not invite another strong backlash from ardent progressives?
Unless Fellay has flipped back after receiving more Roman rejections, politically it makes little sense. The leaderships is being seen in the company of Civitas which the French government would like to suppress for its anti-secularist stance and active Catholicism, seeing it on the same page as extreme Muslims. How does this fare with the new branding initiatives and the like of Max Krah, Fellay's 'court Jєω', who to this day actively promotes Zionist causes? Am I missing something ..... or is this normal Society smoke and mirrors activity?
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I wish someone would give a synopsis of the interview with the Bishop for us. He looked much too happy and flattered to be there. Perhaps he has forgotten all that this European Parliament has done to strip Europe of all that remains of its Catholic heritage. Not to mention the member country's rights to determine their own laws such as those that outlaw abortion or ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity. To see a nativity scene there is quite a contradiction to their agenda. One has to wonder how it came about.
Bishop Fellay is at the European Parliament because he has the courage to enter the Lion's Den.
Bishop Fellay says the Nativity Creche in the public spaces of Europe and America is simple honesty. He says everything those nations have become they owe to the Nativity of Our Lord Jesus Christ and the public Nativity Creche is simple recognition of this truth such that even atheists ought to be able to recognise the fact. He says this requires courage. These are sufficiently hard words and he speaks them well with a friendly smile.
His words here show him to be a man who is not lacking in courage. In this video he shows himself to be a bishop of the Church of Rome. He shows he is worthy of respect.
He is some sort of Jesuit and I am a Franciscan, but despite everything I must respect him for what he does in this video. And when some sort of Jesuit like Bishop Fellay commands the respect of a Franciscan like me, then he is entitled to the respect of every Catholic. He is entitled to our respect.
May the Good Lord bless Bishop Fellay!
Or is the bishop responding to changes in the general political mood in Europe? Participation in events like this would be at the invitation of members and one is tempted to wonder whether the local bishop was conveniently too busy to attend on this occasion. I am sure Bp. Williamson would have given the assembled party more for their money though such a wonderful prospect would have been too politically charged! Perhaps being reminded of their Christian heritage is quite innocuous if such sentiments are intended to apply to the past and dare not impose themselves on the present!
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I wish someone would give a synopsis of the interview with the Bishop for us. He looked much too happy and flattered to be there. Perhaps he has forgotten all that this European Parliament has done to strip Europe of all that remains of its Catholic heritage. Not to mention the member country's rights to determine their own laws such as those that outlaw abortion or ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity. To see a nativity scene there is quite a contradiction to their agenda. One has to wonder how it came about.
Bishop Fellay is at the European Parliament because he has the courage to enter the Lion's Den.
Bishop Fellay says the Nativity Creche in the public spaces of Europe and America is simple honesty. He says everything those nations have become they owe to the Nativity of Our Lord Jesus Christ and the public Nativity Creche is simple recognition of this truth such that even atheists ought to be able to recognise the fact. He says this requires courage. These are sufficiently hard words and he speaks them well with a friendly smile.
His words here show him to be a man who is not lacking in courage. In this video he shows himself to be a bishop of the Church of Rome. He shows he is worthy of respect.
He is some sort of Jesuit and I am a Franciscan, but despite everything I must respect him for what he does in this video. And when some sort of Jesuit like Bishop Fellay commands the respect of a Franciscan like me, then he is entitled to the respect of every Catholic. He is entitled to our respect.
May the Good Lord bless Bishop Fellay!
Or is the bishop responding to changes in the general political mood in Europe? Participation in events like this would be at the invitation of members and one is tempted to wonder whether the local bishop was conveniently too busy to attend on this occasion. I am sure Bp. Williamson would have given the assembled party more for their money though such a wonderful prospect would have been too politically charged! Perhaps being reminded of their Christian heritage is quite innocuous if such sentiments are intended to apply to the past and dare not impose themselves on the present!
Bishop Williamson would not have been allowed to speak there because of all of the things he has said publicly, as you know. That is one of the reasons that it may be better for a bishop to prudently maneuver when giving public statements while still speaking the truth. At least Bishop Fellay is able to appear in such assemblies and give blessings.
Yesterday I saw a video of a popular, black, NFL athlete being cut off very abruptly on national television because he mentioned the fact that "Jesus Christ died for our sins" and that was about the last thing he got to say. I also saw that Texas just passed a law to allow people to say "Merry Christmas" without getting into trouble. The Ten Commandment monuments are being removed in the public arena and there are plans to replace them with monuments to Satan. So this is where we are as a society.
I think it was wonderful that the Bishop was there to bless the Creche right in the middle of the pagan world. And the way things are, the smile is helpful.
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I wish someone would give a synopsis of the interview with the Bishop for us. He looked much too happy and flattered to be there. Perhaps he has forgotten all that this European Parliament has done to strip Europe of all that remains of its Catholic heritage. Not to mention the member country's rights to determine their own laws such as those that outlaw abortion or ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity. To see a nativity scene there is quite a contradiction to their agenda. One has to wonder how it came about.
Bishop Fellay is at the European Parliament because he has the courage to enter the Lion's Den.
Bishop Fellay says the Nativity Creche in the public spaces of Europe and America is simple honesty. He says everything those nations have become they owe to the Nativity of Our Lord Jesus Christ and the public Nativity Creche is simple recognition of this truth such that even atheists ought to be able to recognise the fact. He says this requires courage. These are sufficiently hard words and he speaks them well with a friendly smile.
His words here show him to be a man who is not lacking in courage. In this video he shows himself to be a bishop of the Church of Rome. He shows he is worthy of respect.
He is some sort of Jesuit and I am a Franciscan, but despite everything I must respect him for what he does in this video. And when some sort of Jesuit like Bishop Fellay commands the respect of a Franciscan like me, then he is entitled to the respect of every Catholic. He is entitled to our respect.
May the Good Lord bless Bishop Fellay!
Or is the bishop responding to changes in the general political mood in Europe? Participation in events like this would be at the invitation of members and one is tempted to wonder whether the local bishop was conveniently too busy to attend on this occasion. I am sure Bp. Williamson would have given the assembled party more for their money though such a wonderful prospect would have been too politically charged! Perhaps being reminded of their Christian heritage is quite innocuous if such sentiments are intended to apply to the past and dare not impose themselves on the present!
Dear Mr. Wessex:
Of course this is a response to changes in the general political mood in Europe! And in the world as well. Bishop Fellay is nothing if not a canny Jesuit-like diplomat with his wetted finger always raised up and carefully testing the latest breeze. He is the embodiment of Jesuit cautiousness. This Nativity blessing is not innocuous either: Bishop Fellay is not only appearing with the French leader of Civitas, the dread bête noire of the French Republic, but also with the foremost political representative of Italian Fascism in present day Rome. Rest assured that nothing could be less innocuous than this episcopal blessing.
An invocation of the Prince of Peace at the European Parliament addresses the rising concern with the Anglo-Zionist campaign to promote a general European war between the West and the Russian Federation. Their warmongering is not going down well among many members of the European Parliament who are not immune to epochal political tsunamis such as the one we (and they) are currently living through.
The continent-reshaping earthquake has now already utterly destroyed the Ratzingerians and with their destruction new forces within the Church must come to the fore. The best name to designate this new force is not far to seek: His Excellency Bishop Tissier de Mallerais. One might say that the good Bishop de Mallerais has, so to speak, won the contest over the future direction of the Catholic world. Therefore from now on the cautious Bishop Fellay is going to most carefully follow the directions set out for him by the masterful Bishop de Mallerais. This is what happens when one has won a great spiritual war as Bishop de Mallerais has now done.
Methinks that with the spiritual guidance of men such as Bishop de Mallerais in the background the prospects of Civitas and Italian Fascism are anything but not daring to impose themselves on the present. Au contraire. The blessedly diplomatic Bishop Fellay has set himself firmly on the crest of the wave of contemporary European society and civilisation and must now ride that wave onwards and upwards to smash through the very Gates of Hell and beyond. There is no turning back. The die is cast and this contest is going to be for all or nothing. But have no doubts: Bishop Fellay is no man's fool. He is under the masterful guidance of Bishop de Mallerais while Our Father in Heaven has the spiralling and terrifying European cataclysm well in hand.
Where all this leaves our ambitious Oxbridge Bishop Williamson this lowly writer must leave for you to determine.
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He is some sort of Jesuit and I am a Franciscan, but despite everything I must respect him for what he does in this video. And when some sort of Jesuit like Bishop Fellay commands the respect of a Franciscan like me, then he is entitled to the respect of every Catholic. He is entitled to our respect.
Agreed. Bishop Fellay is doing everything a traditional Catholic Bishop should do, working for the restoration of all things in Christ, and the return of Christian civilization, like Archbishop Lefebvre did before him. In this era secularized nations are ashamed of their Christian roots, and want to ban every public display of that heritage from the Creche to the Crucifix. The truth is that almost everything that even the godless recognize to constitute true civilization, from countless social works like charities, hospitals, schools, universities that the Church developed and established, to beautiful art and architecture, and so much else that the West knows and has inherited and still values today, owe their origin and development to Christianity. Thomas Woods, a traditional Catholic, docuмents this fact in "How the Catholic Church built western civilization". The recognition of the invaluable debt society and culture owes to Christianity would be the first step in coming back to acknowledge the Kingship of Christ over our societies and civilization.
Indeed, granted that so many nations in Europe, the Americas and Russia have a rich Christian tradition, what a great thing it would be if those nations joined together to publicly acknowledge their debt to Christianity, and recognized it as foundational and intrinsic to true civilization. The flag of the EU, with its twelve stars, was actually designed by two Catholics, and is meant to represent the Sovereign Queenship of Our Blessed Lady over society, though that is impiously ignored today. Not that that is likely to happen any time soon, but because secularists foolishly and absurdly say "religion is divisive" or some such nonsense, the fact rather is that a recognition of common Christian roots would greatly unite three otherwise and currently disunited world powers.
If we look back through history, we see immediately that what I have been speaking of took place in our own countries in the first centuries after Constantine. For we too, are, in our origins, converts. Our ancestors were converted, our kings were converted, and down through the centuries they offered their nations to Our Lord Jesus Christ, and they submitted their countries to the Cross of Jesus. They willed too that Mary should be the Queen of their lands.
One can read the admirable writings of St. Edward, King of England, of St. Louis, King of France, of the Holy Roman Emperor, St. Henry, of St. Elizabeth of Hungary, and of all the saints who were at the head of our Catholic nations and who thus helped to make Christianity. What faith they had in the Holy Mass! King St. Louis of France served two Masses every day. If he was traveling and happened to hear church bells ringing to announce the consecration, he would dismount to adore on bended knee the miracle being performed at that moment. There indeed was Catholic civilization! How far from such faith we are now, how far indeed!
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Nishant:
Bishop Fellay is doing everything a traditional Catholic Bishop should do, working for the restoration of all things in Christ, and the return of Christian civilization, like Archbishop Lefebvre did before him.
Ah, so it is in the interests of restoring all things in Christ that Bp. Fellay has severely disciplined numbers of his priests and run others out of the sspx altogether. Bp Williamson himself, one might reasonably speculate, was punished and eventually cast out because somehow the good bishop impeded "the return of Christian civilization." Additionally, perhaps it may have been that the SG came to the rescue of "our elder brothers" because he perceived that some of H.E.'s attitudes and public utterances were preventing the restoration of Jєωιѕн civilization. Why couldn't the Archbishop have caught up with Bp. Williamson many years ago? Why could Lefebvre not have seen then that his wayward bishop was, by his actions, slowing the course of true restoration? And why, if Bp. Fellay is doing everything he should do, have so many left sspx? My wife and I have abandoned him and his movement, and don't even care to look back.
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Nishant: Bishop Fellay is doing everything a traditional Catholic Bishop should do, working for the restoration of all things in Christ, and the return of Christian civilization, like Archbishop Lefebvre did before him.
Ah, so it is in the interests of restoring all things in Christ that Bp. Fellay has severely disciplined numbers of his priests and run others out of the sspx altogether. Bp Williamson himself, one might reasonably speculate, was punished and eventually cast out because somehow the good bishop impeded "the return of Christian civilization." Additionally, perhaps it may have been that the SG came to the rescue of "our elder brothers" because he perceived that some of H.E.'s attitudes and public utterances were preventing the restoration of Jєωιѕн civilization. Why couldn't the Archbishop have caught up with Bp. Williamson many years ago? Why could Lefebvre not have seen then that his wayward bishop was, by his actions, slowing the course of true restoration? And why, if Bp. Fellay is doing everything he should do, have so many left sspx? My wife and I have abandoned him and his movement, and don't even care to look back.
I don't believe that anyone is saying that Bishop Fellay has made no mistakes. Bishop Williamson has also made mistakes. Regarding why folks leave, over the years even when ABL was alive, there were always times when different groups would get their "knickers in a knot" and leave. When those splits happened, the Society was always stronger afterward until the next group would rise up and do it all over again taking many malcontents but some very good and honestly mislead folks with them. This is the very first time in 34 years that there seemed any real reason for concern. I believe the fog is lifting. In our chapel, we grow by leaps and bounds.
Hollingsworth, had you been with the Society for long?
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I wish someone would give a synopsis of the interview with the Bishop for us. He looked much too happy and flattered to be there. Perhaps he has forgotten all that this European Parliament has done to strip Europe of all that remains of its Catholic heritage. Not to mention the member country's rights to determine their own laws such as those that outlaw abortion or ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity. To see a nativity scene there is quite a contradiction to their agenda. One has to wonder how it came about.
Bishop Fellay is at the European Parliament because he has the courage to enter the Lion's Den.
Bishop Fellay says the Nativity Creche in the public spaces of Europe and America is simple honesty. He says everything those nations have become they owe to the Nativity of Our Lord Jesus Christ and the public Nativity Creche is simple recognition of this truth such that even atheists ought to be able to recognise the fact. He says this requires courage. These are sufficiently hard words and he speaks them well with a friendly smile.
His words here show him to be a man who is not lacking in courage. In this video he shows himself to be a bishop of the Church of Rome. He shows he is worthy of respect.
He is some sort of Jesuit and I am a Franciscan, but despite everything I must respect him for what he does in this video. And when some sort of Jesuit like Bishop Fellay commands the respect of a Franciscan like me, then he is entitled to the respect of every Catholic. He is entitled to our respect.
May the Good Lord bless Bishop Fellay!
Or is the bishop responding to changes in the general political mood in Europe? Participation in events like this would be at the invitation of members and one is tempted to wonder whether the local bishop was conveniently too busy to attend on this occasion. I am sure Bp. Williamson would have given the assembled party more for their money though such a wonderful prospect would have been too politically charged! Perhaps being reminded of their Christian heritage is quite innocuous if such sentiments are intended to apply to the past and dare not impose themselves on the present!
Dear Mr. Wessex:
Of course this is a response to changes in the general political mood in Europe! And in the world as well. Bishop Fellay is nothing if not a canny Jesuit-like diplomat with his wetted finger always raised up and carefully testing the latest breeze. He is the embodiment of Jesuit cautiousness. This Nativity blessing is not innocuous either: Bishop Fellay is not only appearing with the French leader of Civitas, the dread bête noire of the French Republic, but also with the foremost political representative of Italian Fascism in present day Rome. Rest assured that nothing could be less innocuous than this episcopal blessing.
An invocation of the Prince of Peace at the European Parliament addresses the rising concern with the Anglo-Zionist campaign to promote a general European war between the West and the Russian Federation. Their warmongering is not going down well among many members of the European Parliament who are not immune to epochal political tsunamis such as the one we (and they) are currently living through.
The continent-reshaping earthquake has now already utterly destroyed the Ratzingerians and with their destruction new forces within the Church must come to the fore. The best name to designate this new force is not far to seek: His Excellency Bishop Tissier de Mallerais. One might say that the good Bishop de Mallerais has, so to speak, won the contest over the future direction of the Catholic world. Therefore from now on the cautious Bishop Fellay is going to most carefully follow the directions set out for him by the masterful Bishop de Mallerais. This is what happens when one has won a great spiritual war as Bishop de Mallerais has now done.
Methinks that with the spiritual guidance of men such as Bishop de Mallerais in the background the prospects of Civitas and Italian Fascism are anything but not daring to impose themselves on the present. Au contraire. The blessedly diplomatic Bishop Fellay has set himself firmly on the crest of the wave of contemporary European society and civilisation and must now ride that wave onwards and upwards to smash through the very Gates of Hell and beyond. There is no turning back. The die is cast and this contest is going to be for all or nothing. But have no doubts: Bishop Fellay is no man's fool. He is under the masterful guidance of Bishop de Mallerais while Our Father in Heaven has the spiralling and terrifying European cataclysm well in hand.
Where all this leaves our ambitious Oxbridge Bishop Williamson this lowly writer must leave for you to determine.
I am afraid I do not quite recognise your descriptions of Bps. Fellay and Tissier. I have to make the trend my friend and see the growing alteration in the former since the death of ABL. (We cannot also discount the possibility that he was a Swiss plant from his consecration). As regards Bp. Tissier he has admitted that he lacks the strength for combat and is relying on the obedience route. I suppose Fr. Pfeiffer and Pablo were not that impressed when they dropped by. Are bishops supposed to exile themselves so comfortably?
One would expect the new Society's approach to the European parliament to be different to the old one. In fact one does not have to be particularly Christian to see good things in the history of the Church in Europe. Conversely, the appearance of clergy at Christmas time may merely be adding to the brash tinsel. So, the general public may see such demonstrations as being rather innocuous because the broad culture allows for this but, if you are right in what you say about Bp. F's act of bravery, to sharp observers he is certainly not that prudent being in the company of anti-establishment figures. Uncharacteristically, he seems to be borrowing Bp. W's mantel in this respect.
So, where does this indeed leave Bp. Williamson. With no room to manoeuvre on his self-imposed 'authority' side (cf. Tissier's 'obedience' straight jacket), he can only minister to small isolated unstructured groups that still cling to R & R purity. And of course there is his political and literary work. Have I left anything out?
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F.S.
Bishop Fellay is at the European Parliament because he has the courage to enter the Lion's Den.
I dare say that the bishop did not miss a meal on his visit to the EP. In all likelihood, he enjoyed the best cuisine, luxurious hotel accomodations, and the finest wines. If he was in the midst of the "Lion's Den," the lions had apparently been well fed before his arrival and made no attempt to eat His Excellency. I could be wrong, of course. The SG might have stayed at the Brussels equivalent of a Motel 6. He might have dined at McDonalds. He might have drunk Idaho Muscatel from a screw-top bottle. But I doubt it. I imagine that the lions were outwardly quite friendly, purring and rubbing up against his leg. If any of you have been informed otherwise, please recount the details of what may have been for Bp. Fellay during his visit a virtual martyrdom.
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Not everyone at the European Parlimanent is a lion.
Just most of them.
I doubt the evil ones took him to dinner.
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F.S. Bishop Fellay is at the European Parliament because he has the courage to enter the Lion's Den.
I dare say that the bishop did not miss a meal on his visit to the EP. In all likelihood, he enjoyed the best cuisine, luxurious hotel accomodations, and the finest wines. If he was in the midst of the "Lion's Den," the lions had apparently been well fed before his arrival and made no attempt to eat His Excellency. I could be wrong, of course. The SG might have stayed at the Brussels equivalent of a Motel 6. He might have dined at McDonalds. He might have drunk Idaho Muscatel from a screw-top bottle. But I doubt it. I imagine that the lions were outwardly quite friendly, purring and rubbing up against his leg. If any of you have been informed otherwise, please recount the details of what may have been for Bp. Fellay during his visit a virtual martyrdom.
Mr. Hollingsworth,
We ought not make light of the kindnesses Our Lord may sometimes deign to grant us. When He appears among lions, the voracious felines are always "outwardly quite friendly, purring and rubbing up against his leg." If not, then they would not be emphatically responding to Our Lord in Person, but merely devouring whomever they may sink their claws and fangs into as usual. Hence, for those with eyes to see, the success of Bishop Fellay at the European Parliament is more a sign of miraculous divine intervention than of an appointment at Motel 6 or McDonalds.
By every conceivable human measure Bishop Fellay would not only have missed a meal. He would more likely have been promptly tarred, feathered and run out of town on a gibbet to be cast into the flames rather than be welcomed by (of all people!) the European Parliament. And the political implications were more like a flash of lightning than not: Hence another sure signature of the Divine Presence because when He acts the actual implications are usually profoundly shocking in nature. As they assuredly are in this instance.
For Bishop Fellay to have been martyred at the European Parliament was something only to be expected. That he was instead entirely victorious is what is amazing. So we should not mock and cast stones against the Victories of Our Lord. Instead we would be wise to feel a certain humble trembling. Because if Our Lord is moving a virtual Jesuit like Bishop Fellay to act with such public virtue, what is He expecting from the likes of you and me?
We dare not disappoint Him.
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Pilar: I don't believe that anyone is saying that Bishop Fellay has made no mistakes. Bishop Williamson has also made mistakes.
NIshant is saying, apparently that Bp. F. has made no mistakes
nishant: Bishop Fellay is doing everything a traditional Catholic Bishop should do, working for the restoration of all things in Christ, and the return of Christian civilization, like Archbishop Lefebvre did before him.
What (glaring) "mistake"s do you believe Bp. Fellay has made? What (glaring) "mistakes" do you believe Bp. Williamson has made?
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...... (We cannot also discount the possibility that he was a Swiss plant from his consecration). .....
We most certainly can discount the chronic, stupid attempts by various posters to suggest someone they don't like is a plant.
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I wish someone would give a synopsis of the interview with the Bishop for us. He looked much too happy and flattered to be there. Perhaps he has forgotten all that this European Parliament has done to strip Europe of all that remains of its Catholic heritage. Not to mention the member country's rights to determine their own laws such as those that outlaw abortion or ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity. To see a nativity scene there is quite a contradiction to their agenda. One has to wonder how it came about.
Bishop Fellay is at the European Parliament because he has the courage to enter the Lion's Den.
Bishop Fellay says the Nativity Creche in the public spaces of Europe and America is simple honesty. He says everything those nations have become they owe to the Nativity of Our Lord Jesus Christ and the public Nativity Creche is simple recognition of this truth such that even atheists ought to be able to recognise the fact. He says this requires courage. These are sufficiently hard words and he speaks them well with a friendly smile.
His words here show him to be a man who is not lacking in courage. In this video he shows himself to be a bishop of the Church of Rome. He shows he is worthy of respect.
He is some sort of Jesuit and I am a Franciscan, but despite everything I must respect him for what he does in this video. And when some sort of Jesuit like Bishop Fellay commands the respect of a Franciscan like me, then he is entitled to the respect of every Catholic. He is entitled to our respect.
May the Good Lord bless Bishop Fellay!
Or is the bishop responding to changes in the general political mood in Europe? Participation in events like this would be at the invitation of members and one is tempted to wonder whether the local bishop was conveniently too busy to attend on this occasion. I am sure Bp. Williamson would have given the assembled party more for their money though such a wonderful prospect would have been too politically charged! Perhaps being reminded of their Christian heritage is quite innocuous if such sentiments are intended to apply to the past and dare not impose themselves on the present!
Dear Mr. Wessex:
Of course this is a response to changes in the general political mood in Europe! And in the world as well. Bishop Fellay is nothing if not a canny Jesuit-like diplomat with his wetted finger always raised up and carefully testing the latest breeze. He is the embodiment of Jesuit cautiousness. This Nativity blessing is not innocuous either: Bishop Fellay is not only appearing with the French leader of Civitas, the dread bête noire of the French Republic, but also with the foremost political representative of Italian Fascism in present day Rome. Rest assured that nothing could be less innocuous than this episcopal blessing.
An invocation of the Prince of Peace at the European Parliament addresses the rising concern with the Anglo-Zionist campaign to promote a general European war between the West and the Russian Federation. Their warmongering is not going down well among many members of the European Parliament who are not immune to epochal political tsunamis such as the one we (and they) are currently living through.
The continent-reshaping earthquake has now already utterly destroyed the Ratzingerians and with their destruction new forces within the Church must come to the fore. The best name to designate this new force is not far to seek: His Excellency Bishop Tissier de Mallerais. One might say that the good Bishop de Mallerais has, so to speak, won the contest over the future direction of the Catholic world. Therefore from now on the cautious Bishop Fellay is going to most carefully follow the directions set out for him by the masterful Bishop de Mallerais. This is what happens when one has won a great spiritual war as Bishop de Mallerais has now done.
Methinks that with the spiritual guidance of men such as Bishop de Mallerais in the background the prospects of Civitas and Italian Fascism are anything but not daring to impose themselves on the present. Au contraire. The blessedly diplomatic Bishop Fellay has set himself firmly on the crest of the wave of contemporary European society and civilisation and must now ride that wave onwards and upwards to smash through the very Gates of Hell and beyond. There is no turning back. The die is cast and this contest is going to be for all or nothing. But have no doubts: Bishop Fellay is no man's fool. He is under the masterful guidance of Bishop de Mallerais while Our Father in Heaven has the spiralling and terrifying European cataclysm well in hand.
Where all this leaves our ambitious Oxbridge Bishop Williamson this lowly writer must leave for you to determine.
I am afraid I do not quite recognise your descriptions of Bps. Fellay and Tissier. I have to make the trend my friend and see the growing alteration in the former since the death of ABL. (We cannot also discount the possibility that he was a Swiss plant from his consecration). As regards Bp. Tissier he has admitted that he lacks the strength for combat and is relying on the obedience route. I suppose Fr. Pfeiffer and Pablo were not that impressed when they dropped by. Are bishops supposed to exile themselves so comfortably?
One would expect the new Society's approach to the European parliament to be different to the old one. In fact one does not have to be particularly Christian to see good things in the history of the Church in Europe. Conversely, the appearance of clergy at Christmas time may merely be adding to the brash tinsel. So, the general public may see such demonstrations as being rather innocuous because the broad culture allows for this but, if you are right in what you say about Bp. F's act of bravery, to sharp observers he is certainly not that prudent being in the company of anti-establishment figures. Uncharacteristically, he seems to be borrowing Bp. W's mantel in this respect.
So, where does this indeed leave Bp. Williamson. With no room to manoeuvre on his self-imposed 'authority' side (cf. Tissier's 'obedience' straight jacket), he can only minister to small isolated unstructured groups that still cling to R & R purity. And of course there is his political and literary work. Have I left anything out?
No one can deny that Bishop Fellay has more than a little of the opportune Jesuit in him. But what is he doing with the talents the Lord has given him? His diplomacy is dividing the existing Novus Ordo in two and reorienting tens of millions of Catholic souls scandalised by the current occupant of the Chair of Peter (whatever Pope/Bishop/Journalist Francis/Bergoglio may be calling himself at the moment) towards Tradition. We are certainly witnessing the greatest changes in the Church since V-2 and the many who can be turned towards Tradition are being so turned. That is happening very largely thanks to the deft diplomacy of Bishop Fellay. Therefore he may be a Jesuit, but what a Jesuit! As is said, he's "our" Jesuit.
One fears that nowadays anything to do with Christmas is far from innocuous. In their current hysteria against Christmas, the masses are truly baying for the blood of Christians. In Europe and North America at present Baby Jesus is (horrible to tell) the most universally hated thing out there. So Bishop Fellay's championing of Baby Jesus with key leaders of the Anti-Establishment at the ground zero of European politics is not exactly a sign of half-hearted timidity. Bishop Fellay is a brilliant world-class diplomat. He borrows the mantel of Bishop Williamson when it suits his diplomatic purpose, and he smiles and amuses politicians when that suits best. He is a born diplomat. He does St. Ignatius of Loyola proud.
In my estimate nothing Bishop Fellay has done has been outside the historic perimeters of normal Jesuit behaviour. That may offend us and he is no doubt an unlikely candidate for canonisation in future (to put it gently) but he is doing his duty, making great use of his abundant talents and clearly has the humility to accept advice from some men better than himself (such as Bishop Tissier de Mallerais).
Which means that Holy Mother Church has great need of non-Jesuits as well. Zeal must complement the diplomatic cautiousness of Bishop Fellay. Perhaps Bishop Williamson might resist a little more and recognise a little less? That is what Bishop Fellay now seems to be doing, evidently at the behest of Bishop de Mallerais who in his extraordinary humility appears to be quietly correcting many of the excessive compromises in the S.S.P.X. during recent years.
Surely the less said about Pablo the better, but those who want to place more emphasis on the Kingship of Christ might do well to learn from Bishop Fellay's cooperation with prominent Pan-European Catholic Nationalists. Perhaps the one pious sinner Marine Le Pen is more pleasing to Our Lord than all the unctuous Tartuffes of Pablo & Company put together.
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NIshant is saying, apparently that Bp. F. has made no mistakes
nishant:
Quote:
Bishop Fellay is doing everything a traditional Catholic Bishop should do, working for the restoration of all things in Christ, and the return of Christian civilization, like Archbishop Lefebvre did before him.
Oh did the Archbishop have an operative for the Jєωs at his right hand as well?
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J. Paul:
Oh did the Archbishop have an operative for the Jєωs at his right hand as well?
Speaking of that operative for the Jєωs, have we heard much lately about that well fed gentleman? Was he there, perhaps, at tje blessing of the Crib? We seem to be in the midst recently of an information blackout.
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NIshant is saying, apparently that Bp. F. has made no mistakes
nishant:
Quote:
Bishop Fellay is doing everything a traditional Catholic Bishop should do, working for the restoration of all things in Christ, and the return of Christian civilization, like Archbishop Lefebvre did before him.
Oh did the Archbishop have an operative for the Jєωs at his right hand as well?
Our Lord had an "operative for the Jєωs" at hand. Even Jєωs will be used for God's purposes.
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NIshant is saying, apparently that Bp. F. has made no mistakes
nishant:
Quote:
Bishop Fellay is doing everything a traditional Catholic Bishop should do, working for the restoration of all things in Christ, and the return of Christian civilization, like Archbishop Lefebvre did before him.
Oh did the Archbishop have an operative for the Jєωs at his right hand as well?
Our Lord had an "operative for the Jєωs" at hand. Even Jєωs will be used for God's purposes.
That is indeed a very Novus Ordoish anecdote, which while cute, does not address the reality under discussion. And, while Bishop Fellay may be a messiah to his devotees, he is not Jesus, and it remains uncertain who it is that is using his operative, and to what purpose.
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J. Paul: Oh did the Archbishop have an operative for the Jєωs at his right hand as well?
Speaking of that operative for the Jєωs, have we heard much lately about that well fed gentleman? Was he there, perhaps, at tje blessing of the Crib? We seem to be in the midst recently of an information blackout.
Judging by recent events which have shown a discernible pattern, whenever the Bishop is engaging with the more worldly powers, Max Krah is usually facilitating on some level, as that is his usual working environment and where his business and political connections are to be found.
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I wish someone would give a synopsis of the interview with the Bishop for us. He looked much too happy and flattered to be there. Perhaps he has forgotten all that this European Parliament has done to strip Europe of all that remains of its Catholic heritage. Not to mention the member country's rights to determine their own laws such as those that outlaw abortion or ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity. To see a nativity scene there is quite a contradiction to their agenda. One has to wonder how it came about.
Bishop Fellay is at the European Parliament because he has the courage to enter the Lion's Den.
Bishop Fellay says the Nativity Creche in the public spaces of Europe and America is simple honesty. He says everything those nations have become they owe to the Nativity of Our Lord Jesus Christ and the public Nativity Creche is simple recognition of this truth such that even atheists ought to be able to recognise the fact. He says this requires courage. These are sufficiently hard words and he speaks them well with a friendly smile.
His words here show him to be a man who is not lacking in courage. In this video he shows himself to be a bishop of the Church of Rome. He shows he is worthy of respect.
He is some sort of Jesuit and I am a Franciscan, but despite everything I must respect him for what he does in this video. And when some sort of Jesuit like Bishop Fellay commands the respect of a Franciscan like me, then he is entitled to the respect of every Catholic. He is entitled to our respect.
May the Good Lord bless Bishop Fellay!
Solitary, you don't know why Bishop Fellay is there, so please stop spinning the story. It is telling that there has been no word from the SSPX about the SG's presence at the shopping center style creche scene, for whatever reason. And why the SSPX SG?? Why not the local ordinary?
The EU does not represent the "good guys" here. If you were invited by your local masonic order in town to speak at their next lunch, would you do it? Nothing good could come from it, speaking before a gang of wolves. On the other hand, the wolves can claim much success by drawing attention to their big hearts and willingness to attract the presence of the good Bishop. He should have stayed away in deference to their ungodly nature, but personally, I believe his ego wouldn't let him. To bad the SSPX is always spinning themselves, part of the branding, I suppose.
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NIshant is saying, apparently that Bp. F. has made no mistakes
nishant:
Quote:
Bishop Fellay is doing everything a traditional Catholic Bishop should do, working for the restoration of all things in Christ, and the return of Christian civilization, like Archbishop Lefebvre did before him.
Oh did the Archbishop have an operative for the Jєωs at his right hand as well?
Our Lord had an "operative for the Jєωs" at hand. Even Jєωs will be used for God's purposes.
That is indeed a very Novus Ordoish anecdote, which while cute, does not address the reality under discussion. And, while Bishop Fellay may be a messiah to his devotees, he is not Jesus, and it remains uncertain who it is that is using his operative, and to what purpose.
My purpose is not to be "cute". I am making a salient point. There is nothing of the N.O. in the doctrine that God uses all things toward His end, eh?
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J. Paul: Oh did the Archbishop have an operative for the Jєωs at his right hand as well?
Speaking of that operative for the Jєωs, have we heard much lately about that well fed gentleman? Was he there, perhaps, at tje blessing of the Crib? We seem to be in the midst recently of an information blackout.
Judging by recent events which have shown a discernible pattern, whenever the Bishop is engaging with the more worldly powers, Max Krah is usually facilitating on some level, as that is his usual working environment and where his business and political connections are to be found.
Why would Krah be interested in facilitating any connections with European Nationalism?
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I wish someone would give a synopsis of the interview with the Bishop for us. He looked much too happy and flattered to be there. Perhaps he has forgotten all that this European Parliament has done to strip Europe of all that remains of its Catholic heritage. Not to mention the member country's rights to determine their own laws such as those that outlaw abortion or ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity. To see a nativity scene there is quite a contradiction to their agenda. One has to wonder how it came about.
Bishop Fellay is at the European Parliament because he has the courage to enter the Lion's Den.
Bishop Fellay says the Nativity Creche in the public spaces of Europe and America is simple honesty. He says everything those nations have become they owe to the Nativity of Our Lord Jesus Christ and the public Nativity Creche is simple recognition of this truth such that even atheists ought to be able to recognise the fact. He says this requires courage. These are sufficiently hard words and he speaks them well with a friendly smile.
His words here show him to be a man who is not lacking in courage. In this video he shows himself to be a bishop of the Church of Rome. He shows he is worthy of respect.
He is some sort of Jesuit and I am a Franciscan, but despite everything I must respect him for what he does in this video. And when some sort of Jesuit like Bishop Fellay commands the respect of a Franciscan like me, then he is entitled to the respect of every Catholic. He is entitled to our respect.
May the Good Lord bless Bishop Fellay!
Solitary, you don't know why Bishop Fellay is there, so please stop spinning the story. It is telling that there has been no word from the SSPX about the SG's presence at the shopping center style creche scene, for whatever reason. And why the SSPX SG?? Why not the local ordinary?
The EU does not represent the "good guys" here. If you were invited by your local masonic order in town to speak at their next lunch, would you do it? Nothing good could come from it, speaking before a gang of wolves. On the other hand, the wolves can claim much success by drawing attention to their big hearts and willingness to attract the presence of the good Bishop. He should have stayed away in deference to their ungodly nature, but personally, I believe his ego wouldn't let him. To bad the SSPX is always spinning themselves, part of the branding, I suppose.
My guess is that Franciscan Solitary does know a bit about it and you obviously don't know anything about it. It has already been pointed out that not all of the leaders of the EU are rotten and there are some who are actually promoting the Christian roots of European civilization. And since when is it not a good idea for a Catholic Bishop to bring God's truth to the public fore anywhere? Do those of us who are lucky enough to be traditional Catholic have exclusive rights to the Truth or is it not what God established His Church for; to spread Truth and save souls?
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Pilar, fair enough. I do suggest you do some objective studying up on the EU. It is an evil world body that doesn't believe in the nation state, God, or liberty for people who are unfortunate enough to fall under its control. I consider it a wicked government body. Nothing good to come from meeting with such people and we are warned in scripture not to do so.
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Nickolas:
Pilar, fair enough. I do suggest you do some objective studying up on the EU. It is an evil world body that doesn't believe in the nation state, God, or liberty for people who are unfortunate enough to fall under its control. I consider it a wicked government body. Nothing good to come from meeting with such people and we are warned in scripture not to do so.
Yes, Pilar, you are a bright enough person, I'm sure. But you oughtn't to cut the EU any slack at all. Take Niclolas' advice to heart. The EU is an evil and "wicked ( would be world) government body." Many of its most prominent leaders are communists. Why, one of its first, if not the first, president of the EP was a raging Maoist, Jose Manuel Barroso. The EU is merely Soviet Communism moved to another venue and wearing a different mask.
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Pilar, fair enough. I do suggest you do some objective studying up on the EU. It is an evil world body that doesn't believe in the nation state, God, or liberty for people who are unfortunate enough to fall under its control. I consider it a wicked government body. Nothing good to come from meeting with such people and we are warned in scripture not to do so.
Nickolas, all government bodies are wicked today. Bishop Fellay was doing nothing wrong. He was doing great good. It is miraculous that he was allowed to do what he did and that there is a Nativity Creche there. Thank God! How it must upset the evil folks there.
If we do nothing good where we are surrounded by wickedness, we will do nothing good anywhere in this world. Our Lord said, "So let your light shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven." If good bishops, priests and laymen refuse to glorify God in the most public places, then that light will be hidden as we are forbidden to do. The EU is a very public place and now the world knows that there is a bishop who is not ashamed to bless with the traditional rituals of the Church the beautiful Nativity scene they have there. And he does so elegantly, with a smile.
St. Philip Neri, according to one story, was enticed into a brothel by someone who told him that a woman was dying there and needed a priest. He went and found it was a trap, but instead of running out, he stayed to convert the women there. Imagine the scene, St. Philip Neri surrounded by partially clad women weeping over their sins. There can be no doubt that a brothel is one of the worst places on earth but he did not hesitate to do good there. Are we so set in our determination to find fault with the Society that we don't recognize good, holy action when we see it?
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Nickolas: Pilar, fair enough. I do suggest you do some objective studying up on the EU. It is an evil world body that doesn't believe in the nation state, God, or liberty for people who are unfortunate enough to fall under its control. I consider it a wicked government body. Nothing good to come from meeting with such people and we are warned in scripture not to do so.
Yes, Pilar, you are a bright enough person, I'm sure. But you oughtn't to cut the EU any slack at all. Take Niclolas' advice to heart. The EU is an evil and "wicked ( would be world) government body." Many of its most prominent leaders are communists. Why, one of its first, if not the first, president of the EP was a raging Maoist, Jose Manuel Barroso. The EU is merely Soviet Communism moved to another venue and wearing a different mask.
Hollingsworth, I know, I know, you are completely right about the EU, but I still say it does not matter. God's work may be done anywhere. The UN, the Hague, Freemasonic temples, hospitals and clinics that practice abortion and euthanasia, all of these places and many more, house great evil. But I think that if any of our traditional priests were called there to minister the last rites to the dying in those places, they would and do go.
It isn't being a bright enough person. It is knowing my Faith and having a little of the wisdom of old age. :geezer:
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Pilar, fair enough. I do suggest you do some objective studying up on the EU. It is an evil world body that doesn't believe in the nation state, God, or liberty for people who are unfortunate enough to fall under its control. I consider it a wicked government body. Nothing good to come from meeting with such people and we are warned in scripture not to do so.
Nickolas, all government bodies are wicked today. Bishop Fellay was doing nothing wrong. He was doing great good. It is miraculous that he was allowed to do what he did and that there is a Nativity Creche there. Thank God! How it must upset the evil folks there.
If we do nothing good where we are surrounded by wickedness, we will do nothing good anywhere in this world. Our Lord said, "So let your light shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven." If good bishops, priests and laymen refuse to glorify God in the most public places, then that light will be hidden as we are forbidden to do. The EU is a very public place and now the world knows that there is a bishop who is not ashamed to bless with the traditional rituals of the Church the beautiful Nativity scene they have there. And he does so elegantly, with a smile.
St. Philip Neri, according to one story, was enticed into a brothel by someone who told him that a woman was dying there and needed a priest. He went and found it was a trap, but instead of running out, he stayed to convert the women there. Imagine the scene, St. Philip Neri surrounded by partially clad women weeping over their sins. There can be no doubt that a brothel is one of the worst places on earth but he did not hesitate to do good there. Are we so set in our determination to find fault with the Society that we don't recognize good, holy action when we see it?
Pilar, stories are fine and true sometimes. So often though, our actions are based on the flesh or our own idea of what is the best thing to do, wheras, what God wants us to do has already been told. Yes, we let our light shine, but not in the living room of those who would deceive us. The EU didn't need anyone to put a creche in their plaza if that is what they wanted. No, they wanted a show and a showman.
In 2012, this particular Bishop nearly destroyed the SSPX after he and his leadership team were wined and dined for two years by Rome. Following the talks, he was ready to ditch Traditional doctrine for a practical agreement and it was only our Blessed Lord and Lady that slammed the door on the deal. Even now, the SSPX is not the same, slashing and cutting "resistors" who dare to walk forward rather than turn from the path of the Traditional Catholic Church while setting a "softer" tone on everything. The fire is gone and with it, the edge of truth. So much for letting one's light shine.
Proverbs 4 has much to say about this: http://biblehub.com/drb/proverbs/4.htm
This proverb seems to apply to the SSPX leadership though:
Proverbs 13:20Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
20 He that walketh with the wise, shall be wise: a friend of fools shall become like to them.
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Pilar: I don't believe that anyone is saying that Bishop Fellay has made no mistakes. Bishop Williamson has also made mistakes.
NIshant is saying, apparently that Bp. F. has made no mistakes
nishant: Bishop Fellay is doing everything a traditional Catholic Bishop should do, working for the restoration of all things in Christ, and the return of Christian civilization, like Archbishop Lefebvre did before him.
What (glaring) "mistake"s do you believe Bp. Fellay has made? What (glaring) "mistakes" do you believe Bp. Williamson has made?
Bp. Fellay's mistakes:
- Asking for the lifting of the excommunications, which did not exit
- Presenting Summorum pontificuм as a docuмent that brought good to the Church
- Receiving Summorum pontificuм with a Te Deum and as if it were a grace obtained by the Most Holy Virgin Mary
- Thanking for the lifting of excommunications and accepting they were effective during twenty years
- Softening the critics to the antichrist rome to practically make them disappear
- ...
Bp. Williamson's mistakes:
- Asking for the lifting of the excommunications, which did not exit
- Presenting Summorum pontificuм as a docuмent that brought good to the Church
- Receiving Summorum pontificuм with a Te Deum
- Thanking for the lifting of excommunications and accepting they were effective during twenty years
- Recommending the reading of Maria Valtorta's book
- ...
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I am just delighted that the crib is there in the EU buildings in the first place and then to actually get blessed by the Bishop....wonderful.
EU is a lions den of evil so it warms my heart to see that clip.
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Pilar, fair enough. I do suggest you do some objective studying up on the EU. It is an evil world body that doesn't believe in the nation state, God, or liberty for people who are unfortunate enough to fall under its control. I consider it a wicked government body. Nothing good to come from meeting with such people and we are warned in scripture not to do so.
Nickolas, all government bodies are wicked today. Bishop Fellay was doing nothing wrong. He was doing great good. It is miraculous that he was allowed to do what he did and that there is a Nativity Creche there. Thank God! How it must upset the evil folks there.
If we do nothing good where we are surrounded by wickedness, we will do nothing good anywhere in this world. Our Lord said, "So let your light shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven." If good bishops, priests and laymen refuse to glorify God in the most public places, then that light will be hidden as we are forbidden to do. The EU is a very public place and now the world knows that there is a bishop who is not ashamed to bless with the traditional rituals of the Church the beautiful Nativity scene they have there. And he does so elegantly, with a smile.
St. Philip Neri, according to one story, was enticed into a brothel by someone who told him that a woman was dying there and needed a priest. He went and found it was a trap, but instead of running out, he stayed to convert the women there. Imagine the scene, St. Philip Neri surrounded by partially clad women weeping over their sins. There can be no doubt that a brothel is one of the worst places on earth but he did not hesitate to do good there. Are we so set in our determination to find fault with the Society that we don't recognize good, holy action when we see it?
Pilar, stories are fine and true sometimes. So often though, our actions are based on the flesh or our own idea of what is the best thing to do, wheras, what God wants us to do has already been told. Yes, we let our light shine, but not in the living room of those who would deceive us. The EU didn't need anyone to put a creche in their plaza if that is what they wanted. No, they wanted a show and a showman.
In 2012, this particular Bishop nearly destroyed the SSPX after he and his leadership team were wined and dined for two years by Rome. Following the talks, he was ready to ditch Traditional doctrine for a practical agreement and it was only our Blessed Lord and Lady that slammed the door on the deal. Even now, the SSPX is not the same, slashing and cutting "resistors" who dare to walk forward rather than turn from the path of the Traditional Catholic Church while setting a "softer" tone on everything. The fire is gone and with it, the edge of truth. So much for letting one's light shine.
Proverbs 4 has much to say about this: http://biblehub.com/drb/proverbs/4.htm
This proverb seems to apply to the SSPX leadership though:
Proverbs 13:20Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)
20 He that walketh with the wise, shall be wise: a friend of fools shall become like to them.
Nicholas, you do not make sense. Tell me how long you were "with" the Society? How much do you know about its history? You sound very young and full of fire but more wisdom is needed. More calm is needed.
The history of the Society, as with the Church, is littered with the mistakes of its clergy and faithful. There is nothing new there. I agree that the wrong course was pursued and it was very dangerous. But as you say, Our Lord and Our Lady have corrected it. They have used Bishop Fellay to do it. They have not struck him down and he has not been replaced. More mistakes may still be made in the future, probably will certainly be made, God knows. But I believe that many jumped ship way too soon and gave up on the Society. It seems to me that the total disintegration of Fr. Pfeiffer's leadership is a clear sign that it was a serious mistake to follow him.
The situation is very different from when the changes of Vatican II were forced upon us and so many left. They took our Immemorial Mass, Sacraments and Catechism and gave us pablum. Nothing of the sort has taken place with the Society.
I am still a daughter of Archbishop Lefebvre and I will continue to pray that the Society is strong they way he prayed it would be. We should all be praying for that intention.
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Ah, this appeal of comforting traditionalism coupled with the charm of the archbishop proved too irresistible to the recently dispossessed, particularly the ladies. Could not an organisation thrive that captured the sheer nostalgia and the growing sense of loss with the appearance of a messiah to right all the wrongs? But once the mist had lifted, we discovered an emptiness; his solution to the crisis was not going to be an adequate replacement and folk were leaving him as quickly as they had fled to his side. My parents remarked that they were not going to suffer the indignity of attending Mass in a garage although on one rare occasion they were pleased to meet up with an 'old time' priest ..... and an English one at that! To them the archbishop was always going to be some remote figure whose English was poor but glad to know there was at least someone who was going against the trend.
The question is whether or not Bp. Fellay is deliberately going against the trend at this event. Cynics may conclude that here was a minority demonstration in support of the pretence that this place was a home of diversity or that some gloss was being applied to the commercial season. I personally cannot see this other than an orchestrated PR event, full of calculations and media opportunism for which the bishop is well-known. What was missing was a SSPX banner blowing in the political breeze! But the more naïve and those with simple souls among us can enjoy the moment and disregard the conjecture.
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Ah, I should have been clearer, forgive me. I meant to say, Hollingsworth and others - that proclaiming the duty of nations to publicly give to God Incarnate the honor and worship that is so justly owed to Him by all the means in one's power is something every traditional Catholic Bishop should do. Obviously, I don't think that Bishop Fellay is infallible, impeccable, or incapable of imprudence.
Now, as far as Bishop Williamson is concerned, I've said before I think this whole matter has been very tragic, and I don't think Bishop Williamson should have been excluded. I've always respected Bishop Williamson immensely, and still do, even though I fear he has reached a final parting of the ways with the Society. If at all it is still possible, I would like His Excellency to return, and the Three Bishops' Declaration (http://www.dici.org/en/docuмents/declaration-on-the-occasion-of-the-25th-anniversary-of-the-episcopal-consecrations-30th-june-1988-27th-june-2013/) to become the Four Bishops' Declaration. Unfortunately, past experience shows that is very unlikely, those with whom the Society has ever had irreconciliable differences almost never work with the Society again.
I, however, have never personally agreed with many of the acerbic criticisms directed against Bishop Fellay and do not agree with some of the sentiments directed against His Excellency on this thread either, I think the evidence shows that, on the whole, and despite a few missteps, Bishop Fellay is doing the best he can, both to promote the return of Tradition to the Church, and the restoration of the Kingship of Christ in society, as the event which is the topic of this thread evinces. I quote from the above declaration which correctly describes what the leaders of the Church should be doing and are not, and therefore what the Society, and other informed Catholics, can and must do, by all the means that are in their power.
"In the place of a conduct which is inspired by a solid faith in the real power of Our Lord Jesus Christ, we see the Church being shamefully guided by human prudence and with such self-doubt that she asks nothing other from the State than that which the Masonic Lodges wish to concede to her: the common law in the midst of, and on the same level as, other religions which she no longer dares call false.
Christian governments, as they traditionally did, should honor Christ as God and King officially in all public ceremonies, and recognize themselves entirely dependent on and immeasurably blessed by Him, to the exclusion of all other false religions and of gods falsely so called. All authority comes from the true God, and His immutable law. They should recognize the plain and indisputable historical fact that Jesus Christ is the Father and Founder of Western civilization and that everything truly good Europe ever has been before and ever shall be in future, she owes to Jesus of Nazareth and His Church.
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Wessex,
I personally cannot see this other than an orchestrated PR event, full of calculations and media opportunism for which the bishop is well-known.
That really is the long and the short of it. A very "Francis" flavored moment, and one might add, one that a certain operative is known to encourage.
One wonders if he paused at the ubiquitous Menorah, which must surely have been present in that place.
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Nishant,
I think the evidence shows that, on the whole, and despite a few missteps, Bishop Fellay is doing the best he can, both to promote the return of Tradition to the Church, and the restoration of the Kingship of Christ in society
This is an opinion based upon personal interpretations of events. His missteps so called, were defended by no other than himself, which demonstrates his deliberate actions relating to them. So missteps they were not.
What he has done with his injection of ambiguity and warming up to
modernist ideas has further fractured and confused the remnants of Tradition and forestalled the day when Christ will be restored to His proper place.
While it is nice to wax piously over such clerics, the objective reality does not support such an undisciplined view of these events.
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Nishant: Bishop Fellay is doing everything a traditional Catholic Bishop should do, working for the restoration of all things in Christ, and the return of Christian civilization, like Archbishop Lefebvre did before him.
Ah, so it is in the interests of restoring all things in Christ that Bp. Fellay has severely disciplined numbers of his priests and run others out of the sspx altogether. Bp Williamson himself, one might reasonably speculate, was punished and eventually cast out because somehow the good bishop impeded "the return of Christian civilization." Additionally, perhaps it may have been that the SG came to the rescue of "our elder brothers" because he perceived that some of H.E.'s attitudes and public utterances were preventing the restoration of Jєωιѕн civilization. Why couldn't the Archbishop have caught up with Bp. Williamson many years ago? Why could Lefebvre not have seen then that his wayward bishop was, by his actions, slowing the course of true restoration? And why, if Bp. Fellay is doing everything he should do, have so many left sspx? My wife and I have abandoned him and his movement, and don't even care to look back.
Nishant wont answer your questions, as, he may be, as some of us suspect, Fr Laisney, the perpetual SSPX theologian. :smoke-pot:
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Over ten pages of posts on this topic snd STILL no translation of the comments of the dignitaries present, and of the remarks of the Bishop? Still no solid explanation of how Fellay, who has no standing in the Church controlled by the Romans, came to be at the E.U. Headquarters just when they were putting out for public show a creche? Why wouldn't Lorans, or Krah, or DICI, or SiSi NoNo, or Rostand, even, be shouting from the rooftops how they've been accepted in the belly of the beast?
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Over ten pages of posts on this topic snd STILL no translation of the comments of the dignitaries present, and of the remarks of the Bishop? Still no solid explanation of how Fellay, who has no standing in the Church controlled by the Romans, came to be at the E.U. Headquarters just when they were putting out for public show a creche? Why wouldn't Lorans, or Krah, or DICI, or SiSi NoNo, or Rostand, even, be shouting from the rooftops how they've been accepted in the belly of the beast?
The event was likely for the European audience for a particular target and goal.
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hugeman:
Over ten pages of posts on this topic snd STILL no translation of the comments of the dignitaries present, and of the remarks of the Bishop? Still no solid explanation of how Fellay, who has no standing in the Church controlled by the Romans, came to be at the E.U. Headquarters just when they were putting out for public show a creche? Why wouldn't Lorans, or Krah, or DICI, or SiSi NoNo, or Rostand, even, be shouting from the rooftops how they've been accepted in the belly of the beast?
Like yeah! What's going on here? How did the sspx SG wind up blessing this rather meagre looking Creche at the headquarters of the EU? Who brought him over? Why and under what conditions would an Italian MEP of the EU agree to make the introductions? What's this CIVITAS group all about? They, apparently made the intitial arrangements. Who put them up to it? Please, not another ten pages of posts. No long winded rhetoric. No smarmy, elliptical remarks from the likes of Wessex. Just a few simple declarative sentences from someone on the site who might know, and can explain to us exactly what happened and how it all came about.
I don't have anything really against the blessing which Bp. Fellay offered. It's just the extraordinary circuмstances surrounding the event which interest me.
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I'm much more confused about how Bishop Fellay got invited there by European politicians in the first place.
It's his reward for stabbing Bishop Williamson in the back, throwing him under the bus and backing-up over him. It's also a preview of the type of praise he will receive when he sells-out the SSPX ( and further betrays it's founder. ) :reporter:
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Charlotte Bill:
It's his reward for stabbing Bishop Williamson in the back, throwing him under the bus and backing-up over him. It's also a preview of the type of praise he will receive when he sells-out the SSPX ( and further betrays it's founder. )
Let's be careful here. You don't know that for sure. I support Bp. Williamson too. But I'm not prepared to say or suggest that +Fellay's blessing of the Crib had anything to do with H.E. Still, I'd like to know just how +F got the assignment, and what the circuмstances surrounding the event were. That might be a juicy piece of information.
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Nishant: Bishop Fellay is doing everything a traditional Catholic Bishop should do, working for the restoration of all things in Christ, and the return of Christian civilization, like Archbishop Lefebvre did before him.
Ah, so it is in the interests of restoring all things in Christ that Bp. Fellay has severely disciplined numbers of his priests and run others out of the sspx altogether. Bp Williamson himself, one might reasonably speculate, was punished and eventually cast out because somehow the good bishop impeded "the return of Christian civilization." Additionally, perhaps it may have been that the SG came to the rescue of "our elder brothers" because he perceived that some of H.E.'s attitudes and public utterances were preventing the restoration of Jєωιѕн civilization. Why couldn't the Archbishop have caught up with Bp. Williamson many years ago? Why could Lefebvre not have seen then that his wayward bishop was, by his actions, slowing the course of true restoration? And why, if Bp. Fellay is doing everything he should do, have so many left sspx? My wife and I have abandoned him and his movement, and don't even care to look back.
I don't believe that anyone is saying that Bishop Fellay has made no mistakes. Bishop Williamson has also made mistakes. Regarding why folks leave, over the years even when ABL was alive, there were always times when different groups would get their "knickers in a knot" and leave. When those splits happened, the Society was always stronger afterward until the next group would rise up and do it all over again taking many malcontents but some very good and honestly mislead folks with them. This is the very first time in 34 years that there seemed any real reason for concern. I believe the fog is lifting. In our chapel, we grow by leaps and bounds.
Hollingsworth, had you been with the Society for long?
I think you are forgetting that as recent as the beginning of last year Bishop Fellay received public backlash regarding his comments about the Jєωs.
"mentioned Jєωs as “enemies of the Church” in a recent address reviewing the situation of the group as it considered full communion with Rome this past year."
So actually, the fact that he is not treated like Bishop Williamson is suspect even more.
http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/news/bishop-fellay-Jєωs-masons-and-modernists-are-enemies-of-the-church/
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It's strange seeing him amongst all those NWO-types just a grinning away. This is definitely a bone for trashing Williamson and lining up the SSPX for NO absorption. To confirm that just consider: What if he had always been staunchly opposed to strings-attached recognition from apostate Rome? What if he was still ( still? Was he ever? ) a friendly colleague of Williamson? The questions answer themselves I should think.
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Well the questions I asked above DO answer themselves whether or not you care to consider them. Zionist Max Krah is still his business partner/investment partner. Menzingen arranged that interview for Williamson, knew what the questions would be. They got the result they wanted. Williamson is the only bishop I know that even attempts to present the "big picture" from a traditional Catholic perspective. The ONLY bishop who really seems to believe that the business of the Church lies outside the sanctuary. For most ( in the NO ) it's just "pay, pray and obey". In the SSPX it's " we've got to maintain a semi-monopoly catering to the "smells and bells/gotta have a more conservative atmosphere crowd". Neither takes evangelization or rolling back the power of the enemy seriously at all. Williamson had to go. There's no room in Krah-town for him anymore.
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If it wasn't a payoff for treachery what was it? Why not just have the local NO flunky Judas bishop do it?
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Oh brother, some of you people STILL think this is ALL about not signing a deal with Rome because they might take away your "smells and bells" on Sunday.
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If it wasn't a payoff for treachery what was it? Why not just have the local NO flunky Judas bishop do it?
I'm guessing it's about honoring the Light of The World and celebrating Christmas.
Happy Feast of the Epiphany.
:pray: :pray: :pray:
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I am indeed very intrigued about why Bishop Fellay was invited to do this instead of a Novus Ordo bishop or Cardinal? There are numerous possible scenarios.
What does strike me about this, is that Bishop Fellay's smile is extremely fake and forced. You can see major discomfort and pain in his eyes that don't match the smile. I would almost guess that he's there under some kind of duress. I almost wonder if he hasn't been under some kind of duress for a long time now. In this video, it appears as if his conscience is troubled by something. I read that quite clearly in his face.
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Clue #1 -- the poster in the beginning makes reference to the 100th-year anniversary of the death of St. Pius X. Perhaps that's why Bishop Fellay was chosen? Why would the EU commemorate the passing of St. Pius X?
Clue #2 -- the banner in front of the podium appears to be a Vendée cross. Is this on the impetus of some royalist group within the EU? Or an anti-Royalist group (celebrating the crushing of the monarchists)?
As we know, the EU has adopted the image of Europa on the Bull, a harlot on a beast, for its currency and has sculptures of this scene that look very impure and obscene near many of their official buildings.
In addition, the EU flag shows a ring of twelve starts, and Our Lady is described in revelation as wearing a crown of twelve stars.
Many consider the EU to be the beast of Revelation and the harlot riding the beast to be the corrupted Novus Ordo Church ("drinking the blood of the martyrs"). Consequently, does this scene symbolically represent Bishop Fellay making peace with the harlot and beast? Not that I think this was necessarily intended, but God arranges things interestingly sometimes.
I would never go anywhere near that den of Satan, the EU ... I consider it in fact to be the Beast and the Novus Ordo the Harlot on the Beast ... any more than I would go near a Masonic Temple to bless a Nativity Scene. Does that perhaps explain Bishop Fellay's obvious discomfort? Perhaps he walked past a sculpture of the Europa whore on his way into the building?
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Interesting character here who introduces Bishop Fellay:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Borghezio
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This guy here appears to be the link to the SSPX (the second one speaking before Bishop Fellay).
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Ffr.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAlain_Escada&edit-text=
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Ffr.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FCivitas_%28mouvement%29&edit-text=
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So the connections appear to be --
+Fellay -> Escada -> Borghezio -> EU
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There are no more than 20 people there, a few of whom walk off briskly right after the event (meaning they probably just happened to notice it in passing).
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Ladislaus, I think you're ( regrettably ) on the right track. The EU couldn't be more against the Social Reign of Christ the King.
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And the EU couldn't care less about "celebrating Christmas".
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These guys appear to be a little strange to say the least; not sure if it's prudent to associate the SSPX with them.
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These guys appear to be a little strange to say the least; not sure if it's prudent to associate the SSPX with them.
'Politics make strange bedfellows', eh? Thanks for doing the digging, those links were interesting.
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Interesting character here who introduces Bishop Fellay:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mario_Borghezio
"Gaddafi was a great leader, a true revolutionary who should not be confused with the new Libyan leadership swept into power by NATO's bayonets and by oil multinationals", Reaction to the death of Muammar Gaddafi.[12]
In October 2012 Borghezio cosponsored with fellow MEP Lorenzo Fontana a motion for a declaration by the EU Parliament calling upon Pope Benedict XVI to carry out the Consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary."
Quite the character this guy.....
In July 2005, Borghezio was found guilty of arson, for setting fire to the pallets of some migrants sleeping under a bridge in Turin during a vigilante raid. For this he was sentenced to two months and twenty days in prison, converted into a fine of €3,040.[2]
On 11 September 2007, he was arrested by Belgian police for participating in a protest against the Islamisation of Europe.....
That's one helluva rap sheet there....
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This guy here appears to be the link to the SSPX (the second one speaking before Bishop Fellay).
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Ffr.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FAlain_Escada&edit-text=
https://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=y&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&u=http%3A%2F%2Ffr.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FCivitas_%28mouvement%29&edit-text=
If you go to the civitas site there is a recent discourse from the district superior Fr. Bouchacourt. I wonder if they know about the scandal he caused in Argentina last year when he publicly denied the deicide of the Jєωs?
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There's definitely a healthy stirring going on in the European Right but it's being directed against Muslims ( who are only there because the Jєωs pushed for the dismantling of common sense immigration policies that are in each countries long-term national interest ). Meanwhile many are publicly buying the false narratives of incidents like Charlie Hebdo ( Mossad false-flag ). They also don't feel the need to challenge private central banking ( controlled by the enemy ), usury, gratuitous attacks on Russia ( the American $5billion coup in Ukraine, the shooting down of MH370 by the Kiev junta which they mendaciously attempted to pin on Russia. And where is the European Right when cartoonists of the Charlie Hebdo ilk print blasphemous cartoons of the Holy Trinity and the Virgin birth? It took Mossad agents to finally give them what they deserve ( while blaming it-once again-on the Muslims )...And, of course, they usually don't have the gumption to challenge Jєωιѕн math: There were 3.5 million Jєωs in Europe. Hitler killed 6 million. Leaving 3.2 million. Only the Jєωs can make it a crime to question math like that!
The European Right is a lot like the American Right. They never mention WHO owns the Fed. Chronicles, The American Conservative, National Review; they'll all tell you the Muslims did 9-11, the Pakis did 7/7 ( it was MI-6 ), the Zsarnaev bros. did the Boston non-bombing. Sandy Hoax really happened. The Charlie Hebdo false-flag was real. Lee Harvey shot JFK all the way to the next false-flag will be carried by them and spun into their own narrative
( i.e.; "teachers should pack .38 revolvers now" )....The Establishment Right doesn't care about the unborn any more than they care about our manufacturing base. They're too busy sending our boys off to die for Israel while they count their war profits, shuffle money stolen from the Pentagon through bank accts. in the Cayman Islands along with drug money ( Bain Capital ) and use the money to pay-off politicians to not look into 9-11.
Our bishops and cardinals should be talking about the needto Consecrate Russia and should point out the lies of ʝʊdɛօ-Masonry. The illuminati agenda will only advance unless it's challenged.
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All I see is the Christmas Crib and Bishop Fellay blessing it.
:incense: A.M.D.G.
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I am just delighted that the crib is there in the EU buildings in the first place and then to actually get blessed by the Bishop....wonderful.
EU is a lions den of evil so it warms my heart to see that clip.
:incense:
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Quote:
Bishop Fellay is at the European Parliament because he has the courage to enter the Lion's Den.
Bishop Fellay says the Nativity Creche in the public spaces of Europe and America is simple honesty. He says everything those nations have become they owe to the Nativity of Our Lord Jesus Christ and the public Nativity Creche is simple recognition of this truth such that even atheists ought to be able to recognise the fact. He says this requires courage. These are sufficiently hard words and he speaks them well with a friendly smile.
His words here show him to be a man who is not lacking in courage. In this video he shows himself to be a bishop of the Church of Rome. He shows he is worthy of respect.
He is some sort of Jesuit and I am a Franciscan, but despite everything I must respect him for what he does in this video. And when some sort of Jesuit like Bishop Fellay commands the respect of a Franciscan like me, then he is entitled to the respect of every Catholic. He is entitled to our respect.
May the Good Lord bless Bishop Fellay! [/quote]
Yes, we pray for Bishop Fellay!
Je aime Jesus et Notre Dame! Je suis Catholic!
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I wish someone would give a synopsis of the interview with the Bishop for us. He looked much too happy and flattered to be there. Perhaps he has forgotten all that this European Parliament has done to strip Europe of all that remains of its Catholic heritage. Not to mention the member country's rights to determine their own laws such as those that outlaw abortion or ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity. To see a nativity scene there is quite a contradiction to their agenda. One has to wonder how it came about.
Bishop Fellay is at the European Parliament because he has the courage to enter the Lion's Den.
Bishop Fellay says the Nativity Creche in the public spaces of Europe and America is simple honesty. He says everything those nations have become they owe to the Nativity of Our Lord Jesus Christ and the public Nativity Creche is simple recognition of this truth such that even atheists ought to be able to recognise the fact. He says this requires courage. These are sufficiently hard words and he speaks them well with a friendly smile.
His words here show him to be a man who is not lacking in courage. In this video he shows himself to be a bishop of the Church of Rome. He shows he is worthy of respect.
He is some sort of Jesuit and I am a Franciscan, but despite everything I must respect him for what he does in this video. And when some sort of Jesuit like Bishop Fellay commands the respect of a Franciscan like me, then he is entitled to the respect of every Catholic. He is entitled to our respect.
May the Good Lord bless Bishop Fellay!
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All I see is the Christmas Crib and Bishop Fellay blessing it.
:incense: A.M.D.G.
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I am just delighted that the crib is there in the EU buildings in the first place and then to actually get blessed by the Bishop....wonderful.
EU is a lions den of evil so it warms my heart to see that clip.
:incense:
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Je aime Jesus et Notre Dame! Je suis Catholic !
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Bp. Fellay can be different to different people and does respond to opportunities that promotes the brand. The very people he may court in Europe, he would dismiss and ridicule in America. Evidently, he had to get rid of Bp. Williamson and control the American district using trusted French bureaucrats. Then, he fashions a religious version of Disneyland to suit the local temperament and disposition; a trad theme park.
Back in Europe, he senses the climate and sees some scope to return to some hardline Lefebvrism, something the faithful in France and Belgium would notice. This Nativity photo opportunity brings together an assortment of those who oppose the 'enemies of the Church'. At the same time, of course, he does not hesitate to continue dealing with those same enemies in Rome. If there is anything consistent in this behaviour, it has to do with personal survival and ambition consonant with that old Machiavellian way of doing things in high office, religious or otherwise.
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In a word, we call this kind of a person a chameleon.
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Bp. Fellay can be different to different people and does respond to opportunities that promotes the brand. The very people he may court in Europe, he would dismiss and ridicule in America. Evidently, he had to get rid of Bp. Williamson and control the American district using trusted French bureaucrats. Then, he fashions a religious version of Disneyland to suit the local temperament and disposition; a trad theme park.
Back in Europe, he senses the climate and sees some scope to return to some hardline Lefebvrism, something the faithful in France and Belgium would notice. This Nativity photo opportunity brings together an assortment of those who oppose the 'enemies of the Church'. At the same time, of course, he does not hesitate to continue dealing with those same enemies in Rome. If there is anything consistent in this behaviour, it has to do with personal survival and ambition consonant with that old Machiavellian way of doing things in high office, religious or otherwise.
The supreme Jesuit art practiced so masterfully by Bishop Fellay at the European Parliament is neither "personal survival and ambition" nor what Mr. Hollingsworth labels as "a chameleon" in the following entry. The name of this well-known art is "diplomacy". Bishop Fellay is a world-class diplomat so in America he speaks to the Americans and in Europe he speaks to the Europeans. If a "trad theme park" seminary in Virginia suits the Americans, then so be it. If alliances with the powerful leaders of Italian and French Fascism suit the Europeans, then so be it. The Vatican City itself is sharply divided and Bishop Fellay is energetically hammering on their fault lines. Such are the arts of Jesuit diplomacy.
As for the true relationship between the Jesuits and Machiavelli, that must be left to the reader's discretion. No doubt the true Jesuit diplomat has no need to read Machiavelli because such knowledge is simply in his blood. In any case the track record of Jesuit successes is unparalleled in human history. That should speak for itself.
And the greatest Jesuit of our time is not Bishop Fellay. That honour goes to Bishop Tissier de Mallerais. It is his steady hand that is now directs the fate of the nations. We Franciscans are also doing our part, but when we hit the enemy he never knows what's hit him: The Holy Ghost moves quickly.
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In a word, we call this kind of a person a chameleon.
Gosh, I could have explained him in one word!!!
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Bp. Fellay can be different to different people and does respond to opportunities that promotes the brand. The very people he may court in Europe, he would dismiss and ridicule in America. Evidently, he had to get rid of Bp. Williamson and control the American district using trusted French bureaucrats. Then, he fashions a religious version of Disneyland to suit the local temperament and disposition; a trad theme park.
Back in Europe, he senses the climate and sees some scope to return to some hardline Lefebvrism, something the faithful in France and Belgium would notice. This Nativity photo opportunity brings together an assortment of those who oppose the 'enemies of the Church'. At the same time, of course, he does not hesitate to continue dealing with those same enemies in Rome. If there is anything consistent in this behaviour, it has to do with personal survival and ambition consonant with that old Machiavellian way of doing things in high office, religious or otherwise.
The supreme Jesuit art practiced so masterfully by Bishop Fellay at the European Parliament is neither "personal survival and ambition" nor what Mr. Hollingsworth labels as "a chameleon" in the following entry. The name of this well-known art is "diplomacy". Bishop Fellay is a world-class diplomat so in America he speaks to the Americans and in Europe he speaks to the Europeans. If a "trad theme park" seminary in Virginia suits the Americans, then so be it. If alliances with the powerful leaders of Italian and French Fascism suit the Europeans, then so be it. The Vatican City itself is sharply divided and Bishop Fellay is energetically hammering on their fault lines. Such are the arts of Jesuit diplomacy.
As for the true relationship between the Jesuits and Machiavelli, that must be left to the reader's discretion. No doubt the true Jesuit diplomat has no need to read Machiavelli because such knowledge is simply in his blood. In any case the track record of Jesuit successes is unparalleled in human history. That should speak for itself.
And the greatest Jesuit of our time is not Bishop Fellay. That honour goes to Bishop Tissier de Mallerais. It is his steady hand that is now directs the fate of the nations. We Franciscans are also doing our part, but when we hit the enemy he never knows what's hit him: The Holy Ghost moves quickly.
Then, I must acquire the Jesuit Handbook, tout suite!
If we care to think back, the Church has always been there 'diplomatically' engaged in the affairs of men and arriving at solutions that would meet the concerns of her representatives. Meanwhile, the rest of us have had to live in hope that these solutions also met the concerns of the faithful. Traditionalists would say that all this has now gone to pot because ends do not justify the means and the ends are getting rather fuzzy besides!
Maybe Bp. F is too following a long line of 'diplomats' in the Church and therefore should be allowed some leeway and 'inconsistency of behaviour' if the end result eases the lot of trads. He may indeed be more like churchmen of old and be prepared to incur the disquiet of innocent and naive trads that are not prepared to keep turning a blind eye. Needless to say the current crop of Roman officials know all the dark arts and would never be expected to behave out of character. Such is the institution after two millennia!
I am not so sure about Bp. Tissier, though. He is cut off from his French base which now has a reforming superior. He spurns any independent role and the direction of the leadership of the Society will continue under Bp. F and his groomed successor. By then the modern world will welcome another body of chastened reactionairies to add to the Roman circus. I agree though the softenening up process will be uneven.
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Franciscan Solitary:
And the greatest Jesuit of our time is not Bishop Fellay. That honour goes to Bishop Tissier de Mallerais. It is his steady hand that is now directs the fate of the nations. We Franciscans are also doing our part, but when we hit the enemy he never knows what's hit him: The Holy Ghost moves quickly.
I am genuinely interested in learning what prompts this remark about Bp. Tissier. His steady hand directing "the fate of nations," you say. I don't mean to make fun at all, but would FS please explain how a prelate, barely known or recognized by anyone among the teeming masses of Chicago, could possibly be directing the fate of entire nations. Not that some of us would not welcome the bishop's taking over those reins from the international bankers.
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Bp. Fellay isn't someone I can respect. Some people are too easily satisfied. It doesn't take much courage to bless a Nativity scene. Why are you so easily impressed? Here's a Superior General who's essentially the organ grinder's monkey and the Organ Grinder in Max Krah and the big Jєωs he represents. If the Sup. Gen ever says anything that directly attacks the ʝʊdɛօ-Masonic power structure I'll be shocked to death.
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If the Sup. Gen ever says anything that directly attacks the ʝʊdɛօ-Masonic power structure I'll be shocked to death.
I remember that Bishop Fellay, in one of his more conservative moments, called the Jєωs and Freemasons enemies of the Church. After hearing this, Novus Ordo talking heads went out of their way to claim that Jєωs and Freemasons were not indeed enemies of the Church.
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Let's hear him upset his buddy Max and say something critical of тαℓмυdia. You know "Israel". The country created by Khazars through relativlely recent immigration, terrorism, massacres and wholesale ethnic cleansing. Make it topical. When in the "fish in a barrel" slaughter of Gaza was going on would have been nice. The European Right really is A LOT like the American Right. They're controlled by the same clique, the same cabal. They're hypocrites. And the SSPX are hypocritical. They used to always point out the cowardice and non-militancy of the NO and now they're identical.
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"enemies of the Church" is pretty textbook. God forbid we actually talk specifically about what's going on outside the 4 walls of the Church. Oh right, that's why Williamson had to go.
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Bp. Fellay can be different to different people and does respond to opportunities that promotes the brand. The very people he may court in Europe, he would dismiss and ridicule in America. Evidently, he had to get rid of Bp. Williamson and control the American district using trusted French bureaucrats. Then, he fashions a religious version of Disneyland to suit the local temperament and disposition; a trad theme park.
Back in Europe, he senses the climate and sees some scope to return to some hardline Lefebvrism, something the faithful in France and Belgium would notice. This Nativity photo opportunity brings together an assortment of those who oppose the 'enemies of the Church'. At the same time, of course, he does not hesitate to continue dealing with those same enemies in Rome. If there is anything consistent in this behaviour, it has to do with personal survival and ambition consonant with that old Machiavellian way of doing things in high office, religious or otherwise.
The supreme Jesuit art practiced so masterfully by Bishop Fellay at the European Parliament is neither "personal survival and ambition" nor what Mr. Hollingsworth labels as "a chameleon" in the following entry. The name of this well-known art is "diplomacy". Bishop Fellay is a world-class diplomat so in America he speaks to the Americans and in Europe he speaks to the Europeans. If a "trad theme park" seminary in Virginia suits the Americans, then so be it. If alliances with the powerful leaders of Italian and French Fascism suit the Europeans, then so be it. The Vatican City itself is sharply divided and Bishop Fellay is energetically hammering on their fault lines. Such are the arts of Jesuit diplomacy.
As for the true relationship between the Jesuits and Machiavelli, that must be left to the reader's discretion. No doubt the true Jesuit diplomat has no need to read Machiavelli because such knowledge is simply in his blood. In any case the track record of Jesuit successes is unparalleled in human history. That should speak for itself.
And the greatest Jesuit of our time is not Bishop Fellay. That honour goes to Bishop Tissier de Mallerais. It is his steady hand that is now directs the fate of the nations. We Franciscans are also doing our part, but when we hit the enemy he never knows what's hit him: The Holy Ghost moves quickly.
Then, I must acquire the Jesuit Handbook, tout suite!
If we care to think back, the Church has always been there 'diplomatically' engaged in the affairs of men and arriving at solutions that would meet the concerns of her representatives. Meanwhile, the rest of us have had to live in hope that these solutions also met the concerns of the faithful. Traditionalists would say that all this has now gone to pot because ends do not justify the means and the ends are getting rather fuzzy besides!
Maybe Bp. F is too following a long line of 'diplomats' in the Church and therefore should be allowed some leeway and 'inconsistency of behaviour' if the end result eases the lot of trads. He may indeed be more like churchmen of old and be prepared to incur the disquiet of innocent and naive trads that are not prepared to keep turning a blind eye. Needless to say the current crop of Roman officials know all the dark arts and would never be expected to behave out of character. Such is the institution after two millennia!
I am not so sure about Bp. Tissier, though. He is cut off from his French base which now has a reforming superior. He spurns any independent role and the direction of the leadership of the Society will continue under Bp. F and his groomed successor. By then the modern world will welcome another body of chastened reactionairies to add to the Roman circus. I agree though the softenening up process will be uneven.
Thank you very much for your kind response. It is much appreciated.
It seems my completely fallible understanding of our present Catholic predicament is much more optimistic than yours. As far as I'm able to decipher this seems to relate to my basically very optimistic view of the historic Jesuits despite their many well-known collective faults and failings, i.e., their often notorious opportunism. In my view this isn't a claim that the ends justify the means but involves the Machiavellian Jesuit understanding of how diplomacy actually operates. The Jesuit must be moral, but he is a better diplomat when he understands that diplomacy itself is usually more than a little immoral.
Bishop Fellay will have diplomatic relations with the Vatican no matter what he does or how hard he might try to avoid that Modernist cloaca of apostasy. As is said: "All roads lead to Rome." In terms of diplomacy (and religion) Rome is probably even today the actual capital of the world. If Bishop Fellay does not go to Rome then Rome will most assuredly come to him. We can't ignore the sun. (A Franciscan would much rather relate to contemporary Rome like the Emperor Charles V did in 1527, but that's just our more direct Franciscan approach to apostates and traitors. Catholics require multiple approaches to get the job done.)
As for Bishop de Mallerais, it's true he has no independent role. In institutional terms he sticks to Bishop Fellay like glue. Bishop Fellay has tried to be an independent Jesuit but he has discovered what happens to Jesuits who attempt to go rogue. They quickly drown in the glue of obedient Jesuits sticking to them like superglue and bringing them back into proper behaviour. Would-be Jesuit Rebels don't rebel for long. And valid Catholic sacraments are effective.
Your reference to "chastened reactionaries" somewhat escapes me. What's so wrong with chastened reactionaries? After the firestorm, who else but us is there to mop up the smoking cinders?
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Franciscan Solitary: And the greatest Jesuit of our time is not Bishop Fellay. That honour goes to Bishop Tissier de Mallerais. It is his steady hand that is now directs the fate of the nations. We Franciscans are also doing our part, but when we hit the enemy he never knows what's hit him: The Holy Ghost moves quickly.
I am genuinely interested in learning what prompts this remark about Bp. Tissier. His steady hand directing "the fate of nations," you say. I don't mean to make fun at all, but would FS please explain how a prelate, barely known or recognized by anyone among the teeming masses of Chicago, could possibly be directing the fate of entire nations. Not that some of us would not welcome the bishop's taking over those reins from the international bankers.
Mr. Hollingsworth, what can be said? "Oh ye of little faith"? Don't you comprehend that it is precisely those who are "barely known or recognised by anyone among the teeming masses" who almost invariably strike the most decisive blows for Christ the King? Even on the battlefield this is how the most deadly blows are usually struck.
Anyone aware of power and how power works among we humans will quickly notice the good Bishop de Mallerais as the one at the centre of the web of power relationships within the S.S.P.X. Truthfully this is not "rocket science". Most anyone with a "nose for power" will immediately recognise Bishop de Mallerais as, so to speak, the one giant among pygmies. (No disrespect intended to pygmies -- we're all pygmies more or less.) Flying beneath the radar, aka humility, has always been among the most powerful military virtues.
That's a key reason why genuine humility is not weakness. In war the prima donna attracts the bullets whereas the humble little ones storm the fortress and get the job done. An effective knight is the strong and quiet type. He doesn't draw needless attention, and his enemies rarely live to tell the tale. Hence he remains unseen among the proud and stupid.
Thus Bishop Tissier de Mallerais. A true Catholic bishop is greater than kings. Bishop de Mallerais is a greater Frenchman than Louis XIV or Napoleon Bonaparte. He can not be anything other than the director of the destinies of nations.
Mr. Hollingsworth: May you recognise Bishop de Mallerais for who he truly is, because if you can you will receive a very great blessing.
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FS:
Thus Bishop Tissier de Mallerais. A true Catholic bishop is greater than kings. Bishop de Mallerais is a greater Frenchman than Louis XIV or Napoleon Bonaparte. He can not be anything other than the director of the destinies of nations.
Mr. Hollingsworth: May you recognise Bishop de Mallerais for who he truly is, because if you can you will receive a very great blessing.
Ok. But then would you recognize in the same way that Bp. Williamson is a greater Englishman than Henry VIII and Benjamin Disraeli?
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ʝʊdɛօ-Masonry is the true enemy of Church AND State which is why it's very appropriate for bishops and cardinals to discuss their current actions in society. Not all the time but Confirmations ( when the faithful are confirmed as "Soldiers for Christ" and Christ the King Sunday would be nice ( at the very least ).
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FS: Thus Bishop Tissier de Mallerais. A true Catholic bishop is greater than kings. Bishop de Mallerais is a greater Frenchman than Louis XIV or Napoleon Bonaparte. He can not be anything other than the director of the destinies of nations.
Mr. Hollingsworth: May you recognise Bishop de Mallerais for who he truly is, because if you can you will receive a very great blessing.
Ok. But then would you recognize in the same way that Bp. Williamson is a greater Englishman than Henry VIII and Benjamin Disraeli?
Mr. Hollingsworth: Surely Bishop Williamson could easily surpass the greatness of Henry VIII or Disraeli (or the Duke of Wellington) if he wishes. Whoever has the more than human courage to consecrate new valid Catholic bishops will command the future. But Bishop Williamson will have to find courage greater than Wellington's to do this. He must get his act together.
My lowly prayers are with him.
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FS: Thus Bishop Tissier de Mallerais. A true Catholic bishop is greater than kings. Bishop de Mallerais is a greater Frenchman than Louis XIV or Napoleon Bonaparte. He can not be anything other than the director of the destinies of nations.
Mr. Hollingsworth: May you recognise Bishop de Mallerais for who he truly is, because if you can you will receive a very great blessing.
Ok. But then would you recognize in the same way that Bp. Williamson is a greater Englishman than Henry VIII and Benjamin Disraeli?
Mr. Hollingsworth: Surely Bishop Williamson could easily surpass the greatness of Henry VIII or Disraeli (or the Duke of Wellington) if he wishes. Whoever has the more than human courage to consecrate new valid Catholic bishops will command the future. But Bishop Williamson will have to find courage greater than Wellington's to do this. He must get his act together.
My lowly prayers are with him.
Bishop Williamson has to be careful with who he consecrates. Does the Traditional world need another Bp Fellay?. The bishop/s he consecrates will have to cater to all continents, not just to the English speaking centers. But Bishop Williamson knows most of the priests involved with the Resistance very well, so it cannot be that hard a decision to make. Yes, he must find the courage and get his act together, even though the Novus Ordo may "excommunicate" him for this.