J. Paul:

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Oh did the Archbishop have an operative for the Jєωs at his right hand as well?

Speaking of that operative for the Jєωs, have we heard much lately about that well fed gentleman?  Was he there, perhaps, at tje blessing of the Crib?  We seem to be in the midst recently of an information blackout.

Judging by recent events which have shown a discernible pattern, whenever the Bishop is engaging with the more worldly powers, Max Krah is usually facilitating on some level, as that is his usual working environment and where his business and political connections are to be found.

Quote from: Pilar

Quote from: J.Paul

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NIshant is saying, apparently that Bp. F. has made no mistakes

nishant:
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Bishop Fellay is doing everything a traditional Catholic Bishop should do, working for the restoration of all things in Christ, and the return of Christian civilization, like Archbishop Lefebvre did before him.

Oh did the Archbishop have an operative for the Jєωs at his right hand as well?

Our Lord had an "operative for the Jєωs" at hand. Even Jєωs will be used for God's purposes.

That is indeed a very Novus Ordoish anecdote, which while cute, does not address the reality under discussion. And, while Bishop Fellay may be a messiah to his devotees, he is not Jesus, and it remains uncertain who it is that is using his operative, and to what purpose.

My purpose is not to be "cute". I am making a salient point. There is nothing of the N.O. in the doctrine that God uses all things toward His end, eh?

Quote from: Franciscan Solitary

Quote from: covet truth

I wish someone would give a synopsis of the interview with the Bishop for us.  He looked much too happy and flattered to be there.  Perhaps he has forgotten all that this European Parliament has done to strip Europe of all that remains of its Catholic heritage.  Not to mention the member country's rights to determine their own laws such as those that outlaw abortion or ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖity.  To see a nativity scene there is quite a contradiction to their agenda.  One has to wonder how it came about.  

Bishop Fellay is at the European Parliament because he has the courage to enter the Lion's Den.

Bishop Fellay says the Nativity Creche in the public spaces of Europe and America is simple honesty.  He says everything those nations have become they owe to the Nativity of Our Lord Jesus Christ and the public Nativity Creche is simple recognition of this truth such that even atheists ought to be able to recognise the fact.  He says this requires courage.  These are sufficiently hard words and he speaks them well with a friendly smile.

His words here show him to be a man who is not lacking in courage.  In this video he shows himself to be a bishop of the Church of Rome.  He shows he is worthy of respect.  

He is some sort of Jesuit and I am a Franciscan, but despite everything I must respect him for what he does in this video.  And when some sort of Jesuit like Bishop Fellay commands the respect of a Franciscan like me, then he is entitled to the respect of every Catholic.  He is entitled to our respect.  

May the Good Lord bless Bishop Fellay!

Solitary, you don't know why Bishop Fellay is there, so please stop spinning the story.  It is telling that there has been no word from the SSPX about the SG's presence at the shopping center style creche scene, for whatever reason.  And why the SSPX SG??  Why not the local ordinary?  

The EU does not represent the "good guys" here.  If you were invited by your local masonic order in town to speak at their next lunch, would you do it?  Nothing good could come from it, speaking before a gang of wolves.  On the other hand, the wolves can claim much success by drawing attention to their big hearts and willingness to attract the presence of the good Bishop.  He should have stayed away in deference to their ungodly nature, but personally, I believe his ego wouldn't let him.  To bad the SSPX is always spinning themselves, part of the branding, I suppose.  

My guess is that Franciscan Solitary does know a bit about it and you obviously don't know anything about it. It has already been pointed out that not all of the leaders of the EU are rotten and there are some who are actually promoting the Christian roots of European civilization. And since when is it not a good idea for a Catholic Bishop to bring God's truth to the public fore anywhere? Do those of us who are lucky enough to be traditional Catholic have exclusive rights to the Truth or is it not what God established His Church for; to spread Truth and save souls?

Nickolas:

Pilar, fair enough. I do suggest you do some objective studying up on the EU. It is an evil world body that doesn't believe in the nation state, God, or liberty for people who are unfortunate enough to fall under its control. I consider it a wicked government body. Nothing good to come from meeting with such people and we are warned in scripture not to do so.

Yes, Pilar, you are a bright enough person, I'm sure.  But you oughtn't to cut the EU any slack at all.  Take Niclolas' advice to heart.  The EU is an evil and "wicked ( would be world) government body."  Many of its most prominent leaders are communists.  Why, one of its first, if not the first, president of the EP was a raging Maoist, Jose Manuel Barroso.  The EU is merely Soviet Communism moved to another venue and wearing a different mask.

Nickolas:

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Pilar, fair enough. I do suggest you do some objective studying up on the EU. It is an evil world body that doesn't believe in the nation state, God, or liberty for people who are unfortunate enough to fall under its control. I consider it a wicked government body. Nothing good to come from meeting with such people and we are warned in scripture not to do so.

Yes, Pilar, you are a bright enough person, I'm sure.  But you oughtn't to cut the EU any slack at all.  Take Niclolas' advice to heart.  The EU is an evil and "wicked ( would be world) government body."  Many of its most prominent leaders are communists.  Why, one of its first, if not the first, president of the EP was a raging Maoist, Jose Manuel Barroso.  The EU is merely Soviet Communism moved to another venue and wearing a different mask.

Hollingsworth, I know, I know, you are completely right about the EU, but I still say it does not matter. God's work may be done anywhere. The UN, the Hague, Freemasonic temples, hospitals and clinics that practice abortion and euthanasia, all of these places and many more, house great evil. But I think that if any of our traditional priests were called there to minister the last rites to the dying in those places, they would and do go.

It isn't being a bright enough person. It is knowing my Faith and having a little of the wisdom of old age.  :geezer:

Pilar:

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I don't believe that anyone is saying that Bishop Fellay has made no mistakes. Bishop Williamson has also made mistakes.

NIshant is saying, apparently that Bp. F. has made no mistakes

nishant:

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Bishop Fellay is doing everything a traditional Catholic Bishop should do, working for the restoration of all things in Christ, and the return of Christian civilization, like Archbishop Lefebvre did before him.

What (glaring) "mistake"s do you believe Bp. Fellay has made? What (glaring) "mistakes" do you believe Bp. Williamson has made?

Bp. Fellay's mistakes:

- Asking for the lifting of the excommunications, which did not exit
- Presenting Summorum pontificuм as a docuмent that brought good to the Church
- Receiving Summorum pontificuм with a Te Deum and as if it were a grace obtained by the Most Holy Virgin Mary
- Thanking for the lifting of excommunications and accepting they were effective during twenty years
- Softening the critics to the antichrist rome to practically make them disappear
- ...


Bp. Williamson's mistakes:

- Asking for the lifting of the excommunications, which did not exit
- Presenting Summorum pontificuм as a docuмent that brought good to the Church
- Receiving Summorum pontificuм with a Te Deum
- Thanking for the lifting of excommunications and accepting they were effective during twenty years
- Recommending the reading of Maria Valtorta's book
- ...

Quote from: Pilar

Quote from: Nickolas

Pilar, fair enough.  I do suggest you do some objective studying up on the EU.  It is an evil world body that doesn't believe in the nation state, God, or liberty for people who are unfortunate enough to fall under its control.  I consider it a wicked government body.  Nothing good to come from meeting with such people and we are warned in scripture not to do so.  

Nickolas, all government bodies are wicked today. Bishop Fellay was doing nothing wrong. He was doing great good. It is miraculous that he was allowed to do what he did and that there is a Nativity Creche there. Thank God! How it must upset the evil folks there.

If we do nothing good where we are surrounded by wickedness, we will do nothing good anywhere in this world. Our Lord said, "So let your light shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven." If good bishops, priests and laymen refuse to glorify God in the most public places, then that light will be hidden as we are forbidden to do. The EU is a very public place and now the world knows that there is a bishop who is not ashamed to bless with the traditional rituals of the Church the beautiful Nativity scene they have there. And he does so elegantly, with a smile.

St. Philip Neri, according to one story, was enticed into a brothel by someone who told him that a woman was dying there and needed a priest. He went and found it was a trap, but instead of running out, he stayed to convert the women there. Imagine the scene, St. Philip Neri surrounded by partially clad women weeping over their sins. There can be no doubt that a brothel is one of the worst places on earth but he did not hesitate to do good there. Are we so set in our determination to find fault with the Society that we don't recognize good, holy action when we see it?

 

Pilar, stories are fine and true sometimes.  So often though, our actions are based on the flesh or our own idea of what is the best thing to do, wheras, what God wants us to do has already been told.  Yes, we let our light shine, but not in the living room of those who would deceive us. The EU didn't need anyone to put a creche in their plaza if that is what they wanted.  No, they wanted a show and a showman.

In 2012, this particular Bishop nearly destroyed the SSPX after he and his leadership team were wined and dined for two years by Rome.  Following the talks, he was ready to ditch Traditional doctrine for a practical agreement and it was only our Blessed Lord and Lady that slammed the door on the deal. Even now, the SSPX is not the same, slashing and cutting "resistors" who dare to walk forward rather than turn from the path of the Traditional Catholic Church while setting a "softer" tone on everything.  The fire is gone and with it, the edge of truth. So much for letting one's light shine.

Proverbs 4 has much to say about this:  http://biblehub.com/drb/proverbs/4.htm

This proverb seems to apply to the SSPX leadership though:

Proverbs 13:20Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition (DRA)

20 He that walketh with the wise, shall be wise: a friend of fools shall become like to them.


 

Nicholas, you do not make sense. Tell me how long you were "with" the Society? How much do you know about its history? You sound very young and full of fire but more wisdom is needed. More calm is needed.

The history of the Society, as with the Church, is littered with the mistakes of its clergy and faithful. There is nothing new there. I agree that the wrong course was pursued and it was very dangerous. But as you say, Our Lord and Our Lady have corrected it. They have used Bishop Fellay to do it. They have not struck him down and he has not been replaced. More mistakes may still be made in the future, probably will certainly be made, God knows. But I believe that many jumped ship way too soon and gave up on the Society. It seems to me that the total disintegration of Fr. Pfeiffer's leadership is a clear sign that it was a serious mistake to follow him.

The situation is very different from when the changes of Vatican II were forced upon us and so many left. They took our Immemorial Mass, Sacraments and Catechism and gave us pablum. Nothing of the sort has taken place with the Society.
I am still a daughter of Archbishop Lefebvre and I will continue to pray that the Society is strong they way he prayed it would be. We should all be praying for that intention.

Ah, I should have been clearer, forgive me. I meant to say, Hollingsworth and others - that proclaiming the duty of nations to publicly give to God Incarnate the honor and worship that is so justly owed to Him by all the means in one's power is something every traditional Catholic Bishop should do. Obviously, I don't think that Bishop Fellay is infallible, impeccable, or incapable of imprudence.

Now, as far as Bishop Williamson is concerned, I've said before I think this whole matter has been very tragic, and I don't think Bishop Williamson should have been excluded. I've always respected Bishop Williamson immensely, and still do, even though I fear he has reached a final parting of the ways with the Society. If at all it is still possible, I would like His Excellency to return, and the Three Bishops' Declaration to become the Four Bishops' Declaration. Unfortunately, past experience shows that is very unlikely, those with whom the Society has ever had irreconciliable differences almost never work with the Society again.

I, however, have never personally agreed with many of the acerbic criticisms directed against Bishop Fellay and do not agree with some of the sentiments directed against His Excellency on this thread either, I think the evidence shows that, on the whole, and despite a few missteps, Bishop Fellay is doing the best he can, both to promote the return of Tradition to the Church, and the restoration of the Kingship of Christ in society, as the event which is the topic of this thread evinces. I quote from the above declaration which correctly describes what the leaders of the Church should be doing and are not, and therefore what the Society, and other informed Catholics, can and must do, by all the means that are in their power.

"In the place of a conduct which is inspired by a solid faith in the real power of Our Lord Jesus Christ, we see the Church being shamefully guided by human prudence and with such self-doubt that she asks nothing other from the State than that which the Masonic Lodges wish to concede to her: the common law in the midst of, and on the same level as, other religions which she no longer dares call false.

Christian governments, as they traditionally did, should honor Christ as God and King officially in all public ceremonies, and recognize themselves entirely dependent on and immeasurably blessed by Him, to the exclusion of all other false religions and of gods falsely so called. All authority comes from the true God, and His immutable law. They should recognize the plain and indisputable historical fact that Jesus Christ is the Father and Founder of Western civilization and that everything truly good Europe ever has been before and ever shall be in future, she owes to Jesus of Nazareth and His Church.