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Author Topic: The Charitable Anathema: Bishop Thomas Aquinas Refuses "Invitation"  (Read 8713 times)

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Offline B from A

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The Charitable Anathema: Bishop Thomas Aquinas Refuses "Invitation"
« Reply #15 on: November 02, 2016, 05:23:02 PM »
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  • Quote from: Motorede
    Quote from: Miseremini
    I'm totally confused.  Am I missing something here?
    I thought a priest was a priest for life and even if he left the priesthood, was in the state of mortal sin and a heretic, in time of emergency (death) could administer  Extreme Unction .
    Don't Fathers JP & Hewko know this?
    [/b]

    ... But, imo, the two "victimized" fathers might be hinting here at not being given fresh Holy Oils every Easter rather than not being able to administer the Last Rites. The old Holy Oils would still be valid  ...


    Or, their supply ran out.  In which case, they cannot validly administer Extreme Unction, unless they can find a bishop to supply them with new ones?  
    (Maybe they should have thought of that before starting a war against +BW.)

    Offline Motorede

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    The Charitable Anathema: Bishop Thomas Aquinas Refuses "Invitation"
    « Reply #16 on: November 02, 2016, 07:32:51 PM »
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  • Quote from:  B from A
    Quote from: Motorede
    Quote from: Miseremini
    I'm totally confused.  Am I missing something here?
    I thought a priest was a priest for life and even if he left the priesthood, was in the state of mortal sin and a heretic, in time of emergency (death) could administer  Extreme Unction .
    Don't Fathers JP & Hewko know this?
    [/b]

    ... But, imo, the two "victimized" fathers might be hinting here at not being given fresh Holy Oils every Easter rather than not being able to administer the Last Rites. The old Holy Oils would still be valid  ...


    Or, their supply ran out.  In which case, they cannot validly administer Extreme Unction, unless they can find a bishop to supply them with new ones?  
    (Maybe they should have thought of that before starting a war against +BW.)
    [/b]

    Exactly! Learn to disagree with respect but don't bite the hand that feeds you.


    Offline JmJ2cents

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    The Charitable Anathema: Bishop Thomas Aquinas Refuses "Invitation"
    « Reply #17 on: November 02, 2016, 08:23:27 PM »
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  • This Open Letter to His Excellency is insanely Hypocritical.  Boo Hoo the Bishops will not give us oils and give our "seminarians" :/ orders.  They want these things from Bishops who they tell their followers not to receive sacraments from or attend their Masses.  Which one is it OLMC?  Why would you tell your followers to miss their Sunday obligation from a Bishop that you want oils and orders from.  Makes zero sense to me.  This is getting so embarrassing for Boston.   :facepalm:

    Offline hollingsworth

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    The Charitable Anathema: Bishop Thomas Aquinas Refuses "Invitation"
    « Reply #18 on: November 02, 2016, 08:42:57 PM »
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  • I know that a number of you dismiss Valtorta out of hand.  Nevertheless, I feel to quote briefly from the 5th Volume of the Poem. Not long before He sends them out, Jesus reveals with great sorrow how many priests in future generations will behave.  Does any priest come to mind as you read below:?

        The cassock has remained. But the priest is dead. This will
    happen to too many in the course of ages. Useless dark shadows.
    they will not be a lever that lifts. a rope that pulls, a fountain that
    quenches people’ thirst, corn that satisfies their hunger, a heart
    that is a pillow, a light in darkness, a voice that repeats what the
    Master says to him. But for poor mankind they will be a weight
    of scandal, a weight of death, a parasite, a putrefaction... Horror!
    Once again and always I shall have the greatest Judases of the fu-
    ture in My priests!


     

    Offline Defender

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    The Charitable Anathema: Bishop Thomas Aquinas Refuses "Invitation"
    « Reply #19 on: November 02, 2016, 09:31:22 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    Fr. Pfeiffer has a lot of nerve!

    The things he's said and done against +Williamson represent a FULL SCALE WAR AGAINST HIM.


    You mean "full scale war"against his errors.

    Well, what are we supposed to do when a bishop teaches error? –stick our heads in the sand?

    We denounce Bishop Fellay’s errors, but we cannot denounce Bishop Williamson’s errors?

    We have to condemn error wherever it comes from.

    “The good of the Faith postulates this public condemnation of error even if the authority might fall.” (from article below)


    On Condemning Error

    The following translated article explains why error must be refuted (wherever it comes from) and also shows why the SSPX, which once performed this duty, should be doing it today.

    Fr. Chautard is presently the rector of the SSPX University in Paris (L’Institut Universitaire Saint-Pie X).

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The Critical Ministry of the Society by Father François-Marie Chautard

    The Chardonnet No. 239 (June 2008)

    Even if we have to work from the inside, can we not keep a respectful silence on the modern errors spread by the authorities while preaching sound doctrine?

    Actually, respectful silence is only morally possible in order to avoid a worse evil. The story of St. Pius X provides us with an example with L’Action Française, when he felt that a condemnation was inappropriate and would have resulted in far more inconveniences than advantages. However, in the present case, the circuмstances are such that the inconvenience resulting from silence (neglect for the common good of the Faith and scandal for the faithful) is worse than the inconvenience resulting from the denunciation of error (the apparent ostracism by the visible society of the conciliar Church).
     
    So the answer lies in one word: the good of the Faith. The good of the Faith today involves the condemnation of error for two reasons:

    - to keep it yourself. Experience proves, unfortunately, that it is not enough to preach the Truth, but that errors also need to be condemned.

    - to prevent the fall of those who might be tempted to succuмb to it.

    Let us add the following arguments which weigh in the balance and show that a true love of the Faith cannot be combined today with a respectful silence:

    1. The Truth requires the condemnation of error: "preachers of truth must do two things, namely exhort in sacred doctrine, and refute contradiction" (1).

    2. The good of the Faith postulates this public condemnation of error even if the authority might fall: "In case of necessity, where the Faith is in danger, anyone is bound to proclaim his faith, either to instruct or encourage the other faithful, or to repel the attacks of unbelievers "(2)," if the Faith were endangered, superiors should be rebuked by inferiors, even in public. Hence Paul, who was subject to Peter, rebuked him for this reason "(3).

    3. The Truth is better evidenced by distinction from error and the condemnation of it (4).

    4. The Truth must not be hidden through fear of criticism which will always exist whatever happens: "It is better to cause scandal than to abandon the Truth " (5).

    5. The practice which consists of only searching for traditional passages in the Magisterium (a kind of intellectual scanner which only detects traditional passages) is basically the same which supports ecuмenism: to see only the good aspects of religions (so as to not risk harming an agreement which would favor reconciliation).

    6. The rational foundations of our position are based on the betrayal of Rome and Her abandonment of Tradition. Mentioning only the good side of Rome would lead gradually to forgetting the reasons for our combat and to fall imperceptibly into the combatted errors.
     

    7. The best service that we can give Rome is to not be silent on the conciliar errors and to stand firm. What would one say of a wife or of children who would not warn their husband and father, if he started down a deadly path? Wouldn’t this be not love, but a servile and cruel cowardice?

    8. This clarity of exposition and hence this condemnation of error is made more necessary because of the increased confusion in the Church and in particular in traditional circles. This confusion is explained by:

    - the bone of contention, Ecclesia Dei, which after more than 20 years, does not cease to carry out its goal: to upset convictions and divide forces.
     
    - a range of increasingly varied doctrinal nuances and therefore a greater confusion of minds, minds that are struggling to form an idea of the situation, which was not the case when both "camps" were well-divided;

    - a youth which did not experience the combat of the veterans, did not have to position itself, and therefore needs more precision;

    - a loss in some people of the habit of fighting, and with it, of reflecting on the reasons for it, since the last crisis, dating back to 1988, allowed convictions to be renewed.

    9. Mentioning only the good side of Rome would lead first to believing that the crisis is reaching its end, then in a short time, to not understanding the refusal of the authorities of the Society in concluding an agreement with Rome, and thus diminishing this force of resistance.

    That being said on this critical duty, it remains to be seen whether those who rally have at least kept their starting positions.

    Notes

    (1) Saint Thomas Aquinas, Comm. in 2.Cor. 2, Lesson 3, No. 72.
    (2) Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, II.II.q.3, a.2, ad 2.
    (3) Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, II. II.q.33, a.4, ad 2.
    (4) This is the procedure of St. Thomas which puts forth objections, the assertion of the Truth, and the answer to the objections.
    (5) Saint Gregory, Hom. 7 on Ezechiel.

    Source : http://laportelatine.org/district/france/bo/20ansapres/critique/critiqu





    Offline St Ignatius

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    The Charitable Anathema: Bishop Thomas Aquinas Refuses "Invitation"
    « Reply #20 on: November 02, 2016, 10:10:12 PM »
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  • So Defender, who are you defending? Your nut'n but a stinken troll for Boston, IMO.

    Offline Defender

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    The Charitable Anathema: Bishop Thomas Aquinas Refuses "Invitation"
    « Reply #21 on: November 02, 2016, 10:37:34 PM »
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  • Quote from: St Ignatius
    So Defender, who are you defending? Your nut'n but a stinken troll for Boston, IMO.



    Archbishop Lefebvre:


    “We should pray also for the faithful who maintain Tradition that they may always preserve a strong, firm attitude, but not an attitude of contempt for persons, insult to persons, insult to bishops. We have the advantage of possessing the truth - we are not at fault - just as the Church has the superiority over error of having the truth: that superiority is hers. Because we have the conviction that we are upholding the truth, that the truth must make headway, that truth must convince, it is not our person. It is not outbursts of anger, or insults to people, which will give added weight to truth. On the contrary, that could cast doubt upon our possession of the truth. Becoming angry and insulting shows that we do not completely trust in the weight of truth, which is the weight of God Himself. It is in God that we trust, in Truth which is God, which is Our Lord Jesus Christ. What can be surer than that? Nothing. And little by little that truth makes, and will make, its way. It must. So let us resolve that in our expressions and attitudes we shall not despise and insult people, but be firm against error- absolute firm, without compromise, without relaxation, because we are with Our Lord. It is a question of Our Lord Jesus Christ. The honor of Our Lord Jesus Christ, the glory of the Blessed Trinity is at stake, not the infinite glory in heaven, but the glory here below on earth. It is truth; and we defend it at any cost, whatever happens.” (Archbishop Lefebvre, “A Talk to the Seminarians at Econe,” September, 18, 1976, A Bishop Speaks)










    Offline Motorede

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    The Charitable Anathema: Bishop Thomas Aquinas Refuses "Invitation"
    « Reply #22 on: November 02, 2016, 10:47:17 PM »
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  • Quote from: Defender
    Quote from: Matthew
    Fr. Pfeiffer has a lot of nerve!

    The things he's said and done against +Williamson represent a FULL SCALE WAR AGAINST HIM.


    You mean "full scale war"against his errors.

    Well, what are we supposed to do when a bishop teaches error? –stick our heads in the sand?

    We denounce Bishop Fellay’s errors, but we cannot denounce Bishop Williamson’s errors?

    We have to condemn error wherever it comes from.

    “The good of the Faith postulates this public condemnation of error even if the authority might fall.” (from article below)


    On Condemning Error

    The following translated article explains why error must be refuted (wherever it comes from) and also shows why the SSPX, which once performed this duty, should be doing it today.

    Fr. Chautard is presently the rector of the SSPX University in Paris (L’Institut Universitaire Saint-Pie X).

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The Critical Ministry of the Society by Father François-Marie Chautard

    The Chardonnet No. 239 (June 2008)

    Even if we have to work from the inside, can we not keep a respectful silence on the modern errors spread by the authorities while preaching sound doctrine?

    Actually, respectful silence is only morally possible in order to avoid a worse evil. The story of St. Pius X provides us with an example with L’Action Française, when he felt that a condemnation was inappropriate and would have resulted in far more inconveniences than advantages. However, in the present case, the circuмstances are such that the inconvenience resulting from silence (neglect for the common good of the Faith and scandal for the faithful) is worse than the inconvenience resulting from the denunciation of error (the apparent ostracism by the visible society of the conciliar Church).
     
    So the answer lies in one word: the good of the Faith. The good of the Faith today involves the condemnation of error for two reasons:

    - to keep it yourself. Experience proves, unfortunately, that it is not enough to preach the Truth, but that errors also need to be condemned.

    - to prevent the fall of those who might be tempted to succuмb to it.

    Let us add the following arguments which weigh in the balance and show that a true love of the Faith cannot be combined today with a respectful silence:

    1. The Truth requires the condemnation of error: "preachers of truth must do two things, namely exhort in sacred doctrine, and refute contradiction" (1).

    2. The good of the Faith postulates this public condemnation of error even if the authority might fall: "In case of necessity, where the Faith is in danger, anyone is bound to proclaim his faith, either to instruct or encourage the other faithful, or to repel the attacks of unbelievers "(2)," if the Faith were endangered, superiors should be rebuked by inferiors, even in public. Hence Paul, who was subject to Peter, rebuked him for this reason "(3).

    3. The Truth is better evidenced by distinction from error and the condemnation of it (4).

    4. The Truth must not be hidden through fear of criticism which will always exist whatever happens: "It is better to cause scandal than to abandon the Truth " (5).

    5. The practice which consists of only searching for traditional passages in the Magisterium (a kind of intellectual scanner which only detects traditional passages) is basically the same which supports ecuмenism: to see only the good aspects of religions (so as to not risk harming an agreement which would favor reconciliation).

    6. The rational foundations of our position are based on the betrayal of Rome and Her abandonment of Tradition. Mentioning only the good side of Rome would lead gradually to forgetting the reasons for our combat and to fall imperceptibly into the combatted errors.
     

    7. The best service that we can give Rome is to not be silent on the conciliar errors and to stand firm. What would one say of a wife or of children who would not warn their husband and father, if he started down a deadly path? Wouldn’t this be not love, but a servile and cruel cowardice?

    8. This clarity of exposition and hence this condemnation of error is made more necessary because of the increased confusion in the Church and in particular in traditional circles. This confusion is explained by:

    - the bone of contention, Ecclesia Dei, which after more than 20 years, does not cease to carry out its goal: to upset convictions and divide forces.
     
    - a range of increasingly varied doctrinal nuances and therefore a greater confusion of minds, minds that are struggling to form an idea of the situation, which was not the case when both "camps" were well-divided;

    - a youth which did not experience the combat of the veterans, did not have to position itself, and therefore needs more precision;

    - a loss in some people of the habit of fighting, and with it, of reflecting on the reasons for it, since the last crisis, dating back to 1988, allowed convictions to be renewed.

    9. Mentioning only the good side of Rome would lead first to believing that the crisis is reaching its end, then in a short time, to not understanding the refusal of the authorities of the Society in concluding an agreement with Rome, and thus diminishing this force of resistance.

    That being said on this critical duty, it remains to be seen whether those who rally have at least kept their starting positions.

    Notes

    (1) Saint Thomas Aquinas, Comm. in 2.Cor. 2, Lesson 3, No. 72.
    (2) Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, II.II.q.3, a.2, ad 2.
    (3) Saint Thomas Aquinas, Summa Theologica, II. II.q.33, a.4, ad 2.
    (4) This is the procedure of St. Thomas which puts forth objections, the assertion of the Truth, and the answer to the objections.
    (5) Saint Gregory, Hom. 7 on Ezechiel.

    Source : http://laportelatine.org/district/france/bo/20ansapres/critique/critiqu



    I don't think anyone on this forum wants you to be silent against error. Zeal for truth is a good thing--but NOT BITTER ZEAL. That's what got you into trouble. Try Saint Francis de Sales' approach and sweeten your zeal with honey. If you decide to stick to your current M.O. then you deserve to be treated as outcasts. I just don't understand why you people feel you have to attach a sledgehammer to your sword of truth. Disagree respectfully w/ +W if you feel there is a need, but keep your dignity and edify the faithful. Honestly, you attack the three bishops in a similar way that Luther attacked the pope. The pope was not Luther's enemy and +W is not yours--or are you saying that +W is acting deliberately and maliciously against you? If "yes", then prove it.


    Offline Motorede

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    The Charitable Anathema: Bishop Thomas Aquinas Refuses "Invitation"
    « Reply #23 on: November 02, 2016, 10:50:57 PM »
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  • Quote from: Defender
    Quote from: St Ignatius
    So Defender, who are you defending? Your nut'n but a stinken troll for Boston, IMO.



    Archbishop Lefebvre:


    “We should pray also for the faithful who maintain Tradition that they may always preserve a strong, firm attitude, but not an attitude of contempt for persons, insult to persons, insult to bishops. We have the advantage of possessing the truth - we are not at fault - just as the Church has the superiority over error of having the truth: that superiority is hers. Because we have the conviction that we are upholding the truth, that the truth must make headway, that truth must convince, it is not our person. It is not outbursts of anger, or insults to people, which will give added weight to truth. On the contrary, that could cast doubt upon our possession of the truth. Becoming angry and insulting shows that we do not completely trust in the weight of truth, which is the weight of God Himself. It is in God that we trust, in Truth which is God, which is Our Lord Jesus Christ. What can be surer than that? Nothing. And little by little that truth makes, and will make, its way. It must. So let us resolve that in our expressions and attitudes we shall not despise and insult people, but be firm against error- absolute firm, without compromise, without relaxation, because we are with Our Lord. It is a question of Our Lord Jesus Christ. The honor of Our Lord Jesus Christ, the glory of the Blessed Trinity is at stake, not the infinite glory in heaven, but the glory here below on earth. It is truth; and we defend it at any cost, whatever happens.” (Archbishop Lefebvre, “A Talk to the Seminarians at Econe,” September, 18, 1976, A Bishop Speaks)

    Doctor! Heal thyself.








    Offline RogerThat

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    The Charitable Anathema: Bishop Thomas Aquinas Refuses "Invitation"
    « Reply #24 on: November 02, 2016, 11:24:26 PM »
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  • hahahahhahahahhaa

    2000 souls?



    hahahahahahahahaha

    Also Bishop Williamson has stated multiple times that his PRIMARY reason for not working with the seminarians in Boston is NOT because of Fr. Pfifer but because they are not being adequately formed (no horarium, no curriculum, no instruction, etc.)

    Offline Croixalist

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    The Charitable Anathema: Bishop Thomas Aquinas Refuses "Invitation"
    « Reply #25 on: November 03, 2016, 07:57:10 AM »
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  • If Defender weren't such a blazing cult member, he'd be able to recognize the much greater errors of Pfeiffer and Hewko! When was the last time Bishop Williamson pushed a schismatic huckster to say Mass or had a Satanic layman huckster manage a seminary? Nobody's perfect, right?

    Imagine for a moment the sheer amount of frenetic energy it takes to defend these sacrilegious men who demand total spiritual, emotional and financial commitment. Move over Jonestown, enter Pfeifferville!
    Fortuna finem habet.


    Offline mw2016

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    The Charitable Anathema: Bishop Thomas Aquinas Refuses "Invitation"
    « Reply #26 on: November 03, 2016, 03:46:50 PM »
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  • Bp. Williamson has his own "problematic" right-hand man.

    He and Fr. Pfeiffer certainly have that in common.

    Offline St Ignatius

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    The Charitable Anathema: Bishop Thomas Aquinas Refuses "Invitation"
    « Reply #27 on: November 03, 2016, 05:07:38 PM »
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  • Quote from: mw2016
    Bp. Williamson has his own "problematic" right-hand man.

    He and Fr. Pfeiffer certainly have that in common.

    Know idea who you may be referring to in regards to Bp Williamson's "problematic righ-hand man..." but, I'll tell you this, Fr Pfeiffer branded me of having "Williamsonitis." I'll take this alleged ailment over the other option, Pfeiff-eprosy!

    Offline Franciscan Solitary

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    The Charitable Anathema: Bishop Thomas Aquinas Refuses "Invitation"
    « Reply #28 on: November 04, 2016, 01:35:00 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    Quote from: JPaul
    The sects are at war.


    What if I punched you in the face while you were walking along, and a few seconds later someone said, "Hey guys, stop fighting! That is not how Christ acted when He was on earth!" wouldn't you be a bit indignant? After all, you weren't "fighting" at all -- you were merely hit in the jaw by a random assailant.

    You would be rightfully angry at any third party who dared to lump you (a victim) in with your attacker, condemning you both equally.

    That is precisely the case with the "war" between Fr. Pfeiffer's cult and the worldwide Resistance. The fighting and name-calling is ALL coming from one direction: Boston, KY outward to each of its many enemies/targets.

    Fr. Pfeiffer's sect is a cross between a cancer, a pus-oozing sore, and a hairy wart on the face of the Resistance.

    Presumably Mr. JPaul meant the phoney war between the Neo-SSPX and Boston, Kentucky?  One would hope.  This shell game shouldn't be difficult to see through:  Both the Neo-SSPX and Boston sects slyly oppose any continuance of legitimate Roman Catholic episcopal authority and its replacement by the whims of the Novus Ordo Neo-Liberal Communist sect.  Not much subtlety here, Brothers and Sisters-in-Christ!

    Catholic obedience can only be to the legitimate apostolic succession and not to the whims of the various Marxist-Communist factions since their illegal coup in 1963 when the Gramscian Marxist monster Paul VI seized the Chair of Peter in classic heretic fashion with active support from the Soviet K.G.B.and passive permission from the Western secret police organisations (i.e., the C.I.A., M-15/16, French Securite, and so on).

    Perhaps Mr. Matthew is a little too kind to the Boston Mafia sect.  Their Ukrainian connections would indicate clear connections with the so-called American Deep State, i.e., C.I.A., N.S.A., etc.  Such apostate vermin would gladly unleash a blood bath across America in despicable obedience to their American Jew masters.  The contemporary heirs to Judas Iscariot will richly deserve everything they get.  It isn't going to be pretty for them.

    In brief, we must get our lazy butts out there and VOTE FOR TRUMP!!!

    To put this in plain American English:  Give me liberty or give me death.  The long-awaited Catholic-Christian American (Counter-) Revolution is about to begin.  in great earnest.


    Offline snowball

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    The Charitable Anathema: Bishop Thomas Aquinas Refuses "Invitation"
    « Reply #29 on: November 10, 2016, 09:50:55 AM »
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  • Fr. Pfeiffer has a very inflammatory personality, he is assuming
    and crass, defamatory and argumentative.
    I stopped listening to anything he has to say this summer
    when he lashed out racial slurs against Fr. Pierre Roy of Quebec,
    at a "family conference", to be honest I can't believe nobody present
    spoke up against him.