Author Topic: The attitude of the French district (Read 4035 times)

SeanGovan · « **on:** May 03, 2013, 05:58:03 AM »

Quote from: In another thread, Neil Obstat

So they preach at us -- "We have the grace of state - we have the virtue of
prudence - we should be obeyed - we should be trusted - don't pay any
attention to the Internet, or to that man behind the curtain!!!!!!!"

And, to a large extent, because of the slowness of the process, it is working [emphasis added].

Good point, Neil (though as to the rest of your post, I agree with Sean Johnson that SSPX priests continue to have supplied jurisdiction). It is because of the slowness of the process. Menzingen is biding its time, trying to appear as Catholic as possible until everyone has abandoned the combat for the Faith. They are waiting until everyone converts to their Liberalism.

This is what a number of "doctrinally solid" priests don't realize, especially in France. They are waiting for the situation to become "more clear" before speaking out in public.

Some priests here in France are preaching Catholic, anti-Conciliar doctrine, hoping that Menzingen will punish them for it and make it clear to everyone that Menzingen has changed. They are waiting to be punished by Menzingen for denouncing the Conciliar Church, rather than speaking out directly against Menzingen's Conciliarism and enduring the consequences. One priest that I used to respect very much told me last week that he and some others are afraid of "looking bad." (Ils ont peur de se faire mal voir.) The reason he gave for such an attitude is that the faithful would not understand their postion and would not follow them. Another priest told me that he and some other priests are waiting for the end of the school year in order to attack Menzingen all at the same time. I hope that happens.

The second priest told me the other day, "We'll have to speak up soon! The situation is becoming intolerable." But as nearly as I can recall, he used exactly the same words four months ago when I asked him if he was going to speak up soon. "Yes, we'll have to speak up soon! The situation is becoming intolerable."

These priests concentrate on condemning the Conciliar Church. Condemning the Conciliar Church is indispensable, but not sufficient. All of the enemies need to be attacked. The reason that the Conciliar Church is our enemy is that it propagates Conciliar doctrine. Menzingen is now propagating that same doctrine, and it is now, therefore, an enemy. Certain priests seem not to realize that very well.

In this world that is totally infected with the Liberal virus - the virus that (apparently) confers a miraculous ability to think two opposite things at the same time - people are perfectly capable of accepting that Conciliar doctrines from the Pope are bad and Conciliar doctrines from Menzingen are good, without perceiving any contradiction!

That is why it is necessary to point out all the wolves. Warning the sheep against the wolf that is prowling around outside the sheep pen is very nice. But refusing to warn them about the wolf that is inside the sheep pen is lethal. Otherwise, a huge number of sheep are apt to think "Well...sometimes it seems to act like a wolf, but it's been inside the sheep pen for so long, with nobody saying anything, that it must be a sheep!"

I really hope that the priests I'm talking about will break with the traitors soon, and I'm praying for it as hard as I can. Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure that Menzingen is smart enough to not punish any priests that don't start pointing fingers and naming names; for Menzingen, too, is anxious to avoid "looking bad." So if certain priests are waiting for the situation to become "more clear," whatever that means to them, I'm afraid they'll be waiting for a long time. And in the meantime, what's going to happen? Because of the slowness of the process, those priests - and their faithful - will slowly absorb an ever-larger dose of the Liberal poison. May God help us.

"If you don't act on what you think, you will finish by thinking the way you act."

Ecclesia Militans · « **Reply #1 on:** May 03, 2013, 06:54:55 AM »

Quote:
"This is what a number of "doctrinally solid" priests don't realize, especially in France. They are waiting for the situation to become "more clear" before speaking out in public."

The situation is clear right now.

Ecclesia Militans · « **Reply #2 on:** May 03, 2013, 06:57:12 AM »

Quote from: SeanGovan

In this world that is totally infected with the Liberal virus - the virus that (apparently) confers a miraculous ability to think two opposite things at the same time - people are perfectly capable of accepting that Conciliar doctrines from the Pope are bad and Conciliar doctrines from Menzingen are good, without perceiving any contradiction!

Excellent point!

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #3 on:** May 03, 2013, 09:24:55 AM »

Hello Sean-

As you mentioned at the Bishop Williamson conference, "I think Bishop Tissier is not acting the way he thinks."

To this, I would add many SSPX priests....for the moment.

Because as Bishop Williamson responded, "Those who do not act the way they think, end up thinking the way they act."

This is why, as time passes, there will be less and less resistance within the SSPX.

A man who acts against his own intellect has a perplexed conscience, the persistence of which is intolerable to him, and must be resolved one way or another.

So he either comes out in the open and resists (thereby retaining his integrity).

Or, he "crime-thinks," and trains himself to accept contradictions without disrupting his conscience (which has been universally practiced by all Churchmen since Vatican II, and now apparently by many within the SSPX).

The first step in mastering this process is to see everything with rose-colored glasses; to accept ambiguous statements with the best possible interpretation, which conquers the intellect and instinct screaming at him that he knows better.

When this has been performed often enough, the screams of intellect, instinct, and conscience can no longer be heard; they are drowned by all the ambiguous rationalizations.

At that point, the accordista has succeeded in cementing his position with a clear conscience (though he may retain a vague memory of having achieved this by force...but only for an instant, as crime-think subdues that memory too).

And this in turn explains why/how many we thought ought to have known better are able to content themselves within the present situation.

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #4 on:** May 03, 2013, 09:49:13 AM »

It also explains why they react so violently against us (just as novus ordo Catholics react so violently against sspxers:

We arouse within them the memory of the dishonesty they ate trying to suppress.

But never for very long, as explained above.

bowler · « **Reply #5 on:** May 03, 2013, 10:25:50 AM »

Quote from: SeanGovan

Some priests here in France are preaching Catholic, anti-Conciliar doctrine, hoping that Menzingen will punish them for it and make it clear to everyone that Menzingen has changed.

The SSPX was created to fight modernism/progressivism. At least those priests you mention are doing what they were created to do.

In my state, no one in any SSPX chapel has heard a good sermon against modernist in years.

hollingsworth · « **Reply #6 on:** May 03, 2013, 12:09:54 PM »

Quote

The SSPX was created to fight modernism/progressivism. At least those priests you mention are doing what they were created to do.

Yes, the raison d'etre of the SSPX is the fight against modernism. When sspx priests fail to do that, or give up that fight, they have no useful function remaining, IMO

Quote

In my state, no one in any SSPX chapel has heard a good sermon against modernist in years.

Tell us about it. We haven't heard but two or three good sermons in the decade of so of our association with sspx. In fact, most of the sermons today are just plain awful.

hugeman · « **Reply #7 on:** May 03, 2013, 01:38:25 PM »

Great Points!

I'll hold off on my opinion of where Bp. Tissier deMallerais really stands. He joined with the other two bishops in a great denunciation of the (what they thought was proposed) Preamble, them waffled away as soon as Fellay targeted him. He excoriated Fr.Chazal, charging him to "obey, obey!", claiming Father is a soldier, and must follow us, the Generals. But this General does and says nothing hiding away in Chicago, silent.

His latest sermon at the Confirmations in Ridgefield was, basically, a "Call to Pacifism"--- just pray, pray pray-- Our Lady will take care of every thing! Then, at the banquet, all he did was congratulate the parents of families-- "the Church needs families!"
WHY does the Church need families? So whole families can be brain-washed into supporting liberal and leftist theology, following like good little soldiers? Not a word on the import of the grace of Strength the new "soldiers" of Christ just received! Not a word on how the soldiers are being called, even in this our day, to lay their life down for Jesus Christ!

When I see these things, my mind goes all the way back to May 5, 1988. The morning after, following a very restless night, the Archbishop RETRACTED , publicly, his agreement, stating he had made a mistake! He realized that he could not trust the Romans. He lamented, later on, that 'his advisers were pushing him to sign'. Yes-- one of the chief advisers was (then Father)
Tissier deMallerais!

As a matter of fact, many of his advisers were pushing him to join Rome. Recall the waffling of people such as Michael Davies-- sitting squarely on the fence. We remember the advise of Father Schmidberger, when the Archbishop asked them what should he do with their (Rome's) new initiatives? Father Schmidberger said: 'you have to follow up on it-- you have to pursue it.'
We had the flight reservations and hotel room reserved for months. Everything was ready, just waiting for the appointed day in June, 1988. Then started, in lightening speed , the on again/ off again consecrations. " Rome has called "; "His Excellency is being summoned to Rome again"; "Cardinal so and so is here(in Econe) to plead";"Monsigneur so and so has come to end these consecrations!". This went on right up to, literally, the morning of the Consecrations! Even that very day, as we saw the limousine arrive from Rome( supposedly to take the Archbishop to Rome for top-level negotiations), we prayed the Holy Ghost would continue to strengthen and guide the Archbishop.
So, yes, unfortunately, well within the SSPX were people working against the Abp. from the very get-go. Just like with St Pius X., as great as he was, and as much good as he did, even he acknowledged that the enemy was already within the walls.
Now we all know, Fathers Rostand, Themann, LeRoux, Lorans, Schmidberger, Pflugger, Nely, Robinson,and so many others are committed modernists, and will do anything they need to do to get into Rome. Bp. DeGalaretta and Bp Tissier deMallerais are committed to silence-- go along to get along. And most of the priests trained under Rostand, LeRoux, Lorans, Schmidberger know very little of tradition--and may know less of their faith. What they know is obedience to the boss-- come floods and high water-- just obey the boss!
So. most of our priests have been converted to act as Real Estate sales ladies-- the client wants a two and a half story Colonial, with four bedrooms, black shutters, a central fireplace and a formal dining room? "Great!"-- "We have just the house for you-- these are very popular right now--everyone wants a colonial--they hold their timeless value!" But... during the tour, the husband doesn't like the "structured rooms", he doesn't like the "dark rooms", he doesn't think too much of the formal dining room, he doesn't like the central chimney-- "Oh, no problem", says our SSPX realtor lady--"this is really a house screaming with 'open spaces', if you just take down two or three walls. You can eliminate the closed in dining room, because families don't entertain anymore, anyway, and install a microwave over here! We can eliminate this old fashioned chimney, and install central air--and, we can replace this exterior wall with a window wall! In fact , this is a very modern style house , with only the outward appearance of traditional-- so it will sell well!"
And that's why the priests don't know how to preach. They are no longer certain what is acceptable in Fellay and Rostand's new world of One-World Church!
Pray the good Lord takes them soon, and the priests can find their bearings once again!

nipr · « **Reply #8 on:** May 03, 2013, 03:39:21 PM »

Previous posts say the priests are afraid of "looking bad." Before whom? God or man? BIG difference! THEY need to rethink this.

nipr · « **Reply #9 on:** May 03, 2013, 03:41:10 PM »

One other pertinent point: Waiting until the end of the school year. I know of some parents who are doing precisely this. The Fall semester should be very interesting.

John Grace · « **Reply #10 on:** May 03, 2013, 03:52:10 PM »

Quote from: hugeman

Great Points!

I'll hold off on my opinion of where Bp. Tissier deMallerais really stands. He joined with the other two bishops in a great denunciation of the (what they thought was proposed) Preamble, them waffled away as soon as Fellay targeted him. He excoriated Fr.Chazal, charging him to "obey, obey!", claiming Father is a soldier, and must follow us, the Generals. But this General does and says nothing hiding away in Chicago, silent.

His latest sermon at the Confirmations in Ridgefield was, basically, a "Call to Pacifism"--- just pray, pray pray-- Our Lady will take care of every thing! Then, at the banquet, all he did was congratulate the parents of families-- "the Church needs families!"
WHY does the Church need families? So whole families can be brain-washed into supporting liberal and leftist theology, following like good little soldiers? Not a word on the import of the grace of Strength the new "soldiers" of Christ just received! Not a word on how the soldiers are being called, even in this our day, to lay their life down for Jesus Christ!

When I see these things, my mind goes all the way back to May 5, 1988. The morning after, following a very restless night, the Archbishop RETRACTED , publicly, his agreement, stating he had made a mistake! He realized that he could not trust the Romans. He lamented, later on, that 'his advisers were pushing him to sign'. Yes-- one of the chief advisers was (then Father)
Tissier deMallerais!

As a matter of fact, many of his advisers were pushing him to join Rome. Recall the waffling of people such as Michael Davies-- sitting squarely on the fence. We remember the advise of Father Schmidberger, when the Archbishop asked them what should he do with their (Rome's) new initiatives? Father Schmidberger said: 'you have to follow up on it-- you have to pursue it.'
We had the flight reservations and hotel room reserved for months. Everything was ready, just waiting for the appointed day in June, 1988. Then started, in lightening speed , the on again/ off again consecrations. " Rome has called "; "His Excellency is being summoned to Rome again"; "Cardinal so and so is here(in Econe) to plead";"Monsigneur so and so has come to end these consecrations!". This went on right up to, literally, the morning of the Consecrations! Even that very day, as we saw the limousine arrive from Rome( supposedly to take the Archbishop to Rome for top-level negotiations), we prayed the Holy Ghost would continue to strengthen and guide the Archbishop.
So, yes, unfortunately, well within the SSPX were people working against the Abp. from the very get-go. Just like with St Pius X., as great as he was, and as much good as he did, even he acknowledged that the enemy was already within the walls.
Now we all know, Fathers Rostand, Themann, LeRoux, Lorans, Schmidberger, Pflugger, Nely, Robinson,and so many others are committed modernists, and will do anything they need to do to get into Rome. Bp. DeGalaretta and Bp Tissier deMallerais are committed to silence-- go along to get along. And most of the priests trained under Rostand, LeRoux, Lorans, Schmidberger know very little of tradition--and may know less of their faith. What they know is obedience to the boss-- come floods and high water-- just obey the boss!
So. most of our priests have been converted to act as Real Estate sales ladies-- the client wants a two and a half story Colonial, with four bedrooms, black shutters, a central fireplace and a formal dining room? "Great!"-- "We have just the house for you-- these are very popular right now--everyone wants a colonial--they hold their timeless value!" But... during the tour, the husband doesn't like the "structured rooms", he doesn't like the "dark rooms", he doesn't think too much of the formal dining room, he doesn't like the central chimney-- "Oh, no problem", says our SSPX realtor lady--"this is really a house screaming with 'open spaces', if you just take down two or three walls. You can eliminate the closed in dining room, because families don't entertain anymore, anyway, and install a microwave over here! We can eliminate this old fashioned chimney, and install central air--and, we can replace this exterior wall with a window wall! In fact , this is a very modern style house , with only the outward appearance of traditional-- so it will sell well!"
And that's why the priests don't know how to preach. They are no longer certain what is acceptable in Fellay and Rostand's new world of One-World Church!
Pray the good Lord takes them soon, and the priests can find their bearings once again!

This is excellent. Whilst laughed at by Fr N Pfluger, Bishop Williamson stating "it is war" is accurate. We are at war. It is a battle.Even today those that prayed the rosary with me in public used the term 'battle' several times. Instead of call to pacifism, they should be calling for war, a holy war. I don't necessarily mean the crusader should just run out into the battlefield without a strategy but the priests and laity should not be passive but realise we are at war.

John Grace · « **Reply #11 on:** May 03, 2013, 04:04:34 PM »

A booklet I give to people is

John Grace · « **Reply #12 on:** May 03, 2013, 04:12:01 PM »

To be fair there is some fight in the French as we saw during the recent attack on a religious brother of the SSPX for demonstrating against the ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs.

I was telling the people, I was praying with today that the time is approaching of Catholics being taken away in handcuffs.

A few years ago in Ireland, women doing pro-life activism were arrested and stripped searched. Whilst there has been arrests since as far as I am aware there hasn't been strip searching.

SeanGovan · « **Reply #13 on:** May 04, 2013, 04:43:26 AM »

Quote from: hugeman

He lamented, later on, that 'his advisers were pushing him to sign'. Yes-- one of the chief advisers was (then Father) Tissier de Mallerais!

If then Father Tissier was pushing ABL to sign in 1988, that's a very interesting piece of information. If anyone has a source for that, could they please post it? I would like to compare his position in 2012/2013 with his position in 1988. Thanks!

This time around, at least, Bishop Tissier was pushing Bishop Fellay not to sign. Unfortunately, he didn't push hard enough or publicly enough to get kicked out of the Neo-Society. Things would be very different in the French district today if he had.

Who knows - if Bishop Tissier had spoken out loud and clear, there might even be different people sitting in the offices of the General House right now!

SeanGovan · « **Reply #14 on:** May 04, 2013, 04:56:08 AM »

I haven't even been in France for two weeks, but it is becoming clear that the situation in France is very bad. In a way, it is far worse than in the United States, because the superior isn't being violent. He is putting people to sleep, instead of waking them up in the handy way that Father Rostand does! The whole district is following Father de Cacqueray, and Father de Cacqueray is now indisputable doing the enemy's work. He used to be the very best SSPX District Superior, back at the beginning of the crisis, but now IMHO he is more dangerous than all the ones who openly favored an agreement. Even among those who worry about the change in the Society, he has the reputation of a good ol' SSPX-er, but he defends the actions of Menzingen and punishes the Resistance. Furthermore, he has borderline lied several times in order to cover Menzingen's back. He purposefully misled people into believing that 37 French priests did not agree with the "Letter of the 37," by stating officially that they had not "signed" it. (Duh. It was anonymous.) He also misinformed the district on the fact that Bishop Fellay attached his signature to the Conciliar, modernist Doctrinal Declaration that he sent to Cardinal Levada, by stating officially that "no agreement has been signed." (Does he really believe that we're that stupid? The agreement was signed - by Bishop Fellay! The fact that Rome didn't sign it is completely secondary. The betrayal is done!) So Father de Cacqueray is putting everyone to sleep. He has become the Neo-SSPX's most useful tool in making people believe that nothing has changed or is changing in the Society. Because of the great respect that people have for his person (not just for his office), they follow him wherever he leads, even though it has now become obvious that he has gone way too far in trying to hold the Society together. God help us.

It isn't just his fault, though. The 37 shouldn't have remained anonymous. Anonymity is only good up to the point where the situation can be turned around. That point has now been passed. They would do far more good now by resisting publicly and strongly, like the Resistance priests. So would other priests that agree with them.

Please pray for them!

Another thought - Father de Cacqueray is an excellent example of how the very best and most anti-Liberal of priests can be corrupted if he purposefully stays in a rotten structure while trying not to make waves.

All it takes is time and patience. "Because of the slowness of the process..." It works.