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Author Topic: “Eleison Comments” by Mgr. Williamson – Issue DLXXVII (577)  (Read 8973 times)

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Offline JPaul

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Re: “Eleison Comments” by Mgr. Williamson – Issue DLXXVII (577)
« Reply #75 on: August 09, 2018, 02:03:10 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on August 09, 2018, 01:53:22 PM
    Dodge #11.
    Pax,.................Seraphim the Superior will not yield to you, not when he has the most important Bishop in the 2000 year history of the Church on his side.............. :laugh1:
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: “Eleison Comments” by Mgr. Williamson – Issue DLXXVII (577)
    « Reply #76 on: August 09, 2018, 02:06:21 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on August 09, 2018, 01:48:37 PM
    THESE post surely are.
    I'm assuming Neil's position on this one.

    It should be: THESE posts surely are.



    That is all.
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: “Eleison Comments” by Mgr. Williamson – Issue DLXXVII (577)
    « Reply #77 on: August 09, 2018, 02:10:24 PM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on August 09, 2018, 02:06:21 PM
    I'm assuming Neil's position on this one.

    It should be: THESE posts surely are.



    That is all.

    You have performed a major service to the Church by....catching a typo.

    Good boy.
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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: “Eleison Comments” by Mgr. Williamson – Issue DLXXVII (577)
    « Reply #78 on: August 09, 2018, 02:13:37 PM »
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    • Quote from: JPaul on August 09, 2018, 02:03:10 PM
    Pax,.................Seraphim the Superior will not yield to you, not when he has the most important Bishop in the 2000 year history of the Church on his side.............. :laugh1:

    I don’t know:

    Some dude just found a word I typed lacking a letter, which has brought me to the brink of capitulation!
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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: “Eleison Comments” by Mgr. Williamson – Issue DLXXVII (577)
    « Reply #79 on: August 09, 2018, 02:22:54 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on August 09, 2018, 02:10:24 PM
    You have performed a major service to the Church by....catching a typo.

    Good boy.

    :laugh1:
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    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: “Eleison Comments” by Mgr. Williamson – Issue DLXXVII (577)
    « Reply #80 on: August 09, 2018, 02:29:55 PM »
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    • In a matter of a few pages, you've extolled the scholasticism of your voluminous writings, referred all of us to read your "refutation" because it's "well known" (i've never heard of it or you), and you've denigrated all those who disagree with you as being uneducated and not worth your time.  Yet you continue to post on this site?  Oh, the irony.

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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: “Eleison Comments” by Mgr. Williamson – Issue DLXXVII (577)
    « Reply #81 on: August 09, 2018, 02:38:10 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on August 09, 2018, 02:29:55 PM
    In a matter of a few pages, you've extolled the scholasticism of your voluminous writings, referred all of us to read your "refutation" because it's "well known" (i've never heard of it or you), and you've denigrated all those who disagree with you as being uneducated and not worth your time.  Yet you continue to post on this site?  Oh, the irony.

    While your own impressive list of accomplishments includes...uh....nothing.
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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: “Eleison Comments” by Mgr. Williamson – Issue DLXXVII (577)
    « Reply #82 on: August 09, 2018, 03:32:40 PM »
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    • With each continued dodge, you further erode your own integrity. 
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    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: “Eleison Comments” by Mgr. Williamson – Issue DLXXVII (577)
    « Reply #83 on: August 09, 2018, 04:11:50 PM »
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    • Quote from: Pax Vobis on August 09, 2018, 03:32:40 PM
    With each continued dodge, you further erode your own integrity.

    Yawn...
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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: “Eleison Comments” by Mgr. Williamson – Issue DLXXVII (577)
    « Reply #84 on: August 09, 2018, 04:31:21 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on August 09, 2018, 02:10:24 PM
    You have performed a major service to the Church by....catching a typo.

    Good boy.
    I stated my intention, namely, to step in for Neil to be of service to you, so that you try to avoid making the same mistake again - that was all.

    How on earth could even a nitwit, much less someone so great and full of knowledge as yourself, think *that* is a service to the Church? - unless you think that you are the Church.

    You most certainly do not take correction well at all. Remember to add that to your resume. 
     
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    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: “Eleison Comments” by Mgr. Williamson – Issue DLXXVII (577)
    « Reply #85 on: August 09, 2018, 04:42:15 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on August 09, 2018, 11:27:48 AM
    More of the same B&W, either/or tunnel vision, lacking all ability to nuance and distinguish, which has mired you in hopeless error.

    Any chance you are a Feeneyite or sede?  If you aren’t yet, you will be one day.

    I really need do nothing to refute you besides point out this mental handicap in each successive post.

    Ps: As regards Howlingsworth, he’s just a grumpy old codger, doing what grumpy old codgers do.


    Is it true....PV's a "Feenneyite"?     

    I'm... aghast! :facepalm:

    Oh, but then, if we truly believe what +ABL published in his 1984 book, "Open Letter to Confused Catholics" on the Sacrament of "Implicit" Baptism, we'd all be a "Rhanerites"... wouldn't we?


    "Oh ho, ho... I confused even the traditionalist!"
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    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: “Eleison Comments” by Mgr. Williamson – Issue DLXXVII (577)
    « Reply #86 on: August 09, 2018, 04:59:24 PM »
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    • Quote from: SeanJohnson on August 09, 2018, 11:27:48 AM


    PS: As regards Howlingsworth, he’s just a grumpy old codger, doing what grumpy old codgers do.

    No matter what anyone thinks of Holly, he's in the "SSPX Resistance Hall of Fame"

    This old codger...stood-up to, and backed-down Fr. Rostand in front of hundreds of his neo-trad groupies.


       Old codger photo (not actually Holly)

    That took some fortitude and the assistance of the Holy Ghost.
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    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: “Eleison Comments” by Mgr. Williamson – Issue DLXXVII (577)
    « Reply #87 on: August 09, 2018, 05:03:14 PM »
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    • Quote from: Incredulous on August 09, 2018, 04:59:24 PM
    No matter what anyone thinks of Holly, he's in the "SSPX Resistance Hall of Fame"

    This old codger...stood-up to, and backed-down Fr. Rostand in front of hundreds of his neo-trad groupies.


       Old codger photo (not actually Holly)

    That took some fortitude and the assistance of the Holy Ghost.


    Here is how implicit baptism of desire is distinguished from Rahner’s “anonymous Christianity:”

    In describing his theory of "anonymous Christianity," Rahner stated that non-Catholics could have "in [their] basic orientation and fundamental decision, accepted the salvific grace of God, through Christ, although [they] may never have heard of the Christian revelation.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_Christian#cite_ref-FOOTNOTERahner1986207_6-0

    This means that such "anonymous Christians" were ignorant not merely of the obligation to receive the sacrament of baptism, but of the entire Christian revelation.

    Consequently, an explicit act of supernatural faith in any particular part of it is not possible...yet salvation is allegedly attained anyway.

    The necessary conclusion of Rahner's theory is that a merely natural knowledge and/or act of faith in God (e.g., such as that which is attainable by mere reason alone) suffices to unite one to the Church, and save.

    Contrast this with implicit baptism of desire, which requires an explicit act of supernatural faith in someaspect of the true religion:

    "Thus, there is need of explicit faith in some article of faith. In the implicit desire of baptism, the act of Faith and hope must be explicit, while it suffices for the desire of baptism itself to be implicit, since he who desires the whole desires necessarily every part of that whole...In any case, there is no Baptism of desire without the supernatural virtue of faith and a certain explicit knowledge of the essential points of faith. Since the nature of faith means that is impossible, that it be completely implicit, since faith is a supernatural light to the intelligence."
    http://www.catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/currenterrors/bapdesire.htm

    We can see, therefore, that the difference between Rahner's "anonymous Christianity" and implicit baptism of desire is huge:

    Rahner posited one could be saved by a faith completelyimplicit, with no explicit act of supernatural faith in even one single aspect of the true religion.

    That position is fatal to the missionary apostolate of the Church, and therefore a rejection of Scripture ("Go forth into all nations..."), whereas the Church's teaching of implicit baptism of desire, insofar as it requires theexplicit act of supernatural faith in at least one aspect of the true religion, consequently implies the necessity of the missionary apostolate to make such doctrines known (at least in part).

    I believe if Feeneyites understood this, they would not (or at least, should not) oppose the doctrine of implicit baptism of desire, which they routinely confuse with "anonymous Christianity," despite the very large difference between the two.
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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: “Eleison Comments” by Mgr. Williamson – Issue DLXXVII (577)
    « Reply #88 on: August 09, 2018, 06:36:52 PM »
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    • Quote from: Stubborn on August 09, 2018, 04:31:21 PM
    I stated my intention, namely, to step in for Neil to be of service to you, so that you try to avoid making the same mistake again - that was all.

    How on earth could even a nitwit, much less someone so great and full of knowledge as yourself, think *that* is a service to the Church? - unless you think that you are the Church.

    You most certainly do not take correction well at all. Remember to add that to your resume.  
     

    The letter "s" you found missing will never be forgotten, and may very well one day lead to the restoration of the Church.

    In 100 years, men will doubt that such great deeds were ever performed, and your memory will become the stuff of legend.

    Bravo. :facepalm:

    PS: Maybe you and Neil can start an exciting thread on the marvels of the ubiquitous semicolon, or a dissertation on the undervalued schwa?
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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: “Eleison Comments” by Mgr. Williamson – Issue DLXXVII (577)
    « Reply #89 on: August 09, 2018, 06:41:14 PM »
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    +ABL said:  "Thus, there is need of explicit faith in some article of faith.
    “I believe in God...” is the first article of the Creed.  Therefore, one could argue (as do V2 Modernists) that explicit faith in God (any God...Judaic, Hindu, Muslim, etc) suffices for BOD.  There’s not much difference between +ABL’s BOD and Rahner’s.  Both are contrary to St Thomas’ BOD parameters.  

    P.s.  Thank you for “educating” us on a topic you’ve (assuredly) previously covered in one of your scholarly “refutations”.  If only you could do so for the ‘new mass’ question...
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