Catholic Info
Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: Recusant Sede on October 01, 2017, 04:03:43 PM
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The SSPX’s hero throws them under the bus!
https://akacatholic.com/breaking-cardinal-burke-slams-fsspx/ (https://akacatholic.com/breaking-cardinal-burke-slams-fsspx/)
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:laugh2:
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The SSPX’s hero throws them under the bus!
https://akacatholic.com/breaking-cardinal-burke-slams-fsspx/ (https://akacatholic.com/breaking-cardinal-burke-slams-fsspx/)
This is nothing new, really (https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AwrBT_tZXNFZ_yMAIjJXNyoA;_ylc=X1MDMjc2NjY3OQRfcgMyBGZyA21jYWZlZQRncHJpZANqaXBvRVpWTlIzQ0x6RDJkYnlEMG1BBG5fcnNsdAMwBG5fc3VnZwMwBG9yaWdpbgNzZWFyY2gueWFob28uY29tBHBvcwMwBHBxc3RyAwRwcXN0cmwDMARxc3RybAMzMQRxdWVyeQMlMjJ1bmRlciUyMHRoZSUyMHN1biUyMiUyMGRvdWF5BHRfc3RtcAMxNTA2ODkyOTA3?p=%22under+the+sun%22+douay&fr2=sb-top&fr=mcafee&type=C111US752D20170824); they'll just dig up another, to say otherwise.
"And so it goes... " (https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AwrBT9KUWtFZ5oMAr51XNyoA;_ylc=X1MDMjc2NjY3OQRfcgMyBGZyA21jYWZlZQRncHJpZANLR29ra1RnRFEybTJqWVZnMGp4a3lBBG5fcnNsdAMwBG5fc3VnZwMwBG9yaWdpbgNzZWFyY2gueWFob28uY29tBHBvcwMwBHBxc3RyAwRwcXN0cmwDMARxc3RybAM1NwRxdWVyeQMlMjJhbmQlMjBzbyUyMGl0JTIwZ29lcyUyMiUyMEFORCUyMHZvbm5lZ3V0JTIwQU5EJTIwcXVvdGUEdF9zdG1wAzE1MDY4OTI1MjY-?p=%22and+so+it+goes%22+AND+vonnegut+AND+quote&fr2=sb-top&fr=mcafee&type=C111US752D20170824)
Vanity... (https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=AwrBT8ulW9FZg.EAWaxXNyoA;_ylc=X1MDMjc2NjY3OQRfcgMyBGZyA21jYWZlZQRncHJpZANRNEY4dGJQQlJhYWZxeDY1MU9JQ3dBBG5fcnNsdAMwBG5fc3VnZwMwBG9yaWdpbgNzZWFyY2gueWFob28uY29tBHBvcwMwBHBxc3RyAwRwcXN0cmwDMARxc3RybAMyMARxdWVyeQN2YW5pdHklMjBBTkQlMjBxdW90ZQR0X3N0bXADMTUwNjg5MjczOQ--?p=vanity+AND+quote&fr2=sb-top&fr=mcafee&type=C111US752D20170824)
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The SSPX’s hero throws them under the bus!
https://akacatholic.com/breaking-cardinal-burke-slams-fsspx/ (https://akacatholic.com/breaking-cardinal-burke-slams-fsspx/)
This is sad.
Could it be that Cardinal Burke was blackmailed into making this statement?
Isn't this characteristically not like him? Why the sudden change?
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xekhqZzWl_g
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More disinformation and off topic remarks. Move on. Nothing important here.
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..., I studied theology in college. We had to take a course every semester.
Today's bishops are not Catholic, neither do they know what is Catholic.
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Today's Vatican II bishops are not bishops. They just delegate, so that they have more time to take the wide road to hell.
Dante said (DAW fan? -DZP) that the roads in hell are paved with the skulls of priests and the bishops are the lampposts.
I might add that the lampposts do not give forth light.
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Could it be that Cardinal Burke was blackmailed into making this statement?
Isn't this characteristically not like him? Why the sudden change?
Why CARE?
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More disinformation and off topic remarks. Move on. Nothing important here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vsscl6myXqI
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Cardinal Burke and Bishop (Athenasius) Schneider are just playing Traditional football using the SSPX and Bishop Fellay as the pigskin (who apparently doesn't mind, too much...)
Who will take "the knee' first?
Will 'good cop"Schneider still speak at the Remnant Church salvation fest at the end of the month even though "bad cop" Burke says the SSPX priests represented there are in schism?
Does Francis' and Fellay's marriage deal fall victim to divorce before it's first year? Do they have to return the gifts?
Did Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI rescind the lifting of the SSPX Bishop's excommunications from 2009? Is Cardinal Burke now making statements that make no sense to either side? Does any of it matter?
Stay tuned to 'As the Consiliar Church Turns'....
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Cardinal Burke and Bishop (Athenasius) Schneider are just playing Traditional football using the SSPX and Bishop Fellay as the pigskin (who apparently doesn't mind, too much...)
Who will take "the knee' first?
Will 'good cop"Schneider still speak at the Remnant Church salvation fest at the end of the month even though "bad cop" Burke says the SSPX priests represented there are in schism?
Does Francis' and Fellay's marriage deal fall victim to divorce before it's first year? Do they have to return the gifts?
Did Pope Emeritus Benedict XVI rescind the lifting of the SSPX Bishop's excommunications from 2009? Is Cardinal Burke now making statements that make no sense to either side? Does any of it matter?
Stay tuned to 'As the Consiliar Church Turns'....
Yes, it does sound like a soap opera or a football match.
More entertainment for the masses.
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"And so..." (https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0LEV1xLgdFZO0sAIFpXNyoA;_ylc=X1MDMjc2NjY3OQRfcgMyBGZyA21jYWZlZQRncHJpZANUSTFwU3dGaVNOV1c5ZGtoSWFCZHpBBG5fcnNsdAMwBG5fc3VnZwM0BG9yaWdpbgNzZWFyY2gueWFob28uY29tBHBvcwMwBHBxc3RyAwRwcXN0cmwDMARxc3RybAM0MwRxdWVyeQN0aGVzaXMlMjBBTkQlMjBhbnRpdGhlc2lzJTIwQU5EJTIwc3ludGhlc2lzBHRfc3RtcAMxNTA2OTAyNDky?p=thesis+AND+antithesis+AND+synthesis&fr2=sb-top&fr=mcafee&type=C111US752D20170824)
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Man, I wish it were off topic disinformation.
"Word", gangsta.
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"And so..." (https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0LEV1xLgdFZO0sAIFpXNyoA;_ylc=X1MDMjc2NjY3OQRfcgMyBGZyA21jYWZlZQRncHJpZANUSTFwU3dGaVNOV1c5ZGtoSWFCZHpBBG5fcnNsdAMwBG5fc3VnZwM0BG9yaWdpbgNzZWFyY2gueWFob28uY29tBHBvcwMwBHBxc3RyAwRwcXN0cmwDMARxc3RybAM0MwRxdWVyeQN0aGVzaXMlMjBBTkQlMjBhbnRpdGhlc2lzJTIwQU5EJTIwc3ludGhlc2lzBHRfc3RtcAMxNTA2OTAyNDky?p=thesis+AND+antithesis+AND+synthesis&fr2=sb-top&fr=mcafee&type=C111US752D20170824)
It's like watching a game of sport that you couldn't care less of either team... time to change the channel...
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It's like watching a game of sport that you couldn't care less of either team... time to change the channel...
... or, "mayhap", more like...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kpIv1etH24
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"And so..." (https://search.yahoo.com/search;_ylt=A0LEV1xLgdFZO0sAIFpXNyoA;_ylc=X1MDMjc2NjY3OQRfcgMyBGZyA21jYWZlZQRncHJpZANUSTFwU3dGaVNOV1c5ZGtoSWFCZHpBBG5fcnNsdAMwBG5fc3VnZwM0BG9yaWdpbgNzZWFyY2gueWFob28uY29tBHBvcwMwBHBxc3RyAwRwcXN0cmwDMARxc3RybAM0MwRxdWVyeQN0aGVzaXMlMjBBTkQlMjBhbnRpdGhlc2lzJTIwQU5EJTIwc3ludGhlc2lzBHRfc3RtcAMxNTA2OTAyNDky?p=thesis+AND+antithesis+AND+synthesis&fr2=sb-top&fr=mcafee&type=C111US752D20170824)
Yup- Hegel. Works every time. If it ain't broke , don't fix it.
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First they were in schism in the late 80s, then they weren't in the 2000s, now they are again. I think Burke was more than blackmailed. His life was threatened...either quit criticizing the pope or else. It's not like Burke is some bastion of tradition, but he's moreso than many in rome (but that's not saying much). As many have already said - I agree - "who cares".
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"who cares".
... and, if you do, then why?
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First they were in schism in the late 80s, then they weren't in the 2000s, now they are again. I think Burke was more than blackmailed. His life was threatened...either quit criticizing the pope or else. It's not like Burke is some bastion of tradition, but he's moreso than many in rome (but that's not saying much). As many have already said - I agree - "who cares".
Yes, you are correct.
You can lead a horse (my friends in the NO) to water, but you cannot make them drink.
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The SSPX’s hero throws them under the bus!
https://akacatholic.com/breaking-cardinal-burke-slams-fsspx/ (https://akacatholic.com/breaking-cardinal-burke-slams-fsspx/)
Awesome.
Never forget what he did in MO.
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Also, does this mean the war is back on?
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This is sad.
Could it be that Cardinal Burke was blackmailed into making this statement?
Isn't this characteristically not like him? Why the sudden change?
What Burke is saying is correct, the SSPX is in schism from the Vatican II church that he belongs to. He is just stating the obvious, and what all the Vatican II bishops believe. The problem is that the SSPX recognizes that Vatican II church as the Catholic Church, as long as they recognize it as the Catholic Church, they are in schism.
If the SSPX were to come out and say that they have serious doubts whether the Vatican II church is the Catholic Church, or that they can't with certainty of faith say the Vatican II church is Catholic, then they would not be in schism. As long as they keep legitimizing the Vatican II church, they really are in schism. They can't have it both ways.
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What Burke is saying is correct, the SSPX is in schism from the Vatican II church that he belongs to. He is just stating the obvious, and what all the Vatican II bishops believe. The problem is that the SSPX recognizes that Vatican II church as the Catholic Church, as long as they recognize it as the Catholic Church, they are in schism.
If the SSPX were to come out and say that they have serious doubts whether the Vatican II church is the Catholic Church, or that they can't with certainty of faith say the Vatican II church is Catholic, then they would not be in schism. As long as they keep legitimizing the Vatican II church, they really are in schism. They can't have it both ways.
It’s true that they may be “in schism from the Vatican II church", but the Vatican II church is in fact not the Catholic Church. What saves the SSPX people from schism is the fact that Bergoglio is not a true pope and that the NO is not the true Church.
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What Burke is saying is correct, the SSPX is in schism from the Vatican II church that he belongs to. He is just stating the obvious, and what all the Vatican II bishops believe. The problem is that the SSPX recognizes that Vatican II church as the Catholic Church, as long as they recognize it as the Catholic Church, they are in schism.
If the SSPX were to come out and say that they have serious doubts whether the Vatican II church is the Catholic Church, or that they can't with certainty of faith say the Vatican II church is Catholic, then they would not be in schism. As long as they keep legitimizing the Vatican II church, they really are in schism. They can't have it both ways.
You are correct here. The first consecrations were outside of the law, but, at that time, there was a strong case for justifying this breach. That however did not justify the following acts of establishing Churches schools, seminaries etc. within territorial juristictions and without lawful approval, nor does it cover the new episcopal hierarchy which the SSPX spinoff has created in recent times. This is not 1988 and all of the original Bishops are still alive and active, as well a number of sede Bishops from roughly the same period.The same case cannot be made because the justifying circuмstances are no longer present.
However the R&R notion which the SSPX groups live under is another matter, as it is unlawful to dissent from, or reject a council of the Church which you accept as valid and legitimate. To do so in a selective manner is schismatic. Father Hesse and others have given very good explanations of this.
As you say they cannot have it both ways, but still they operate as though they can.
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For all of you who enjoy "stirring the pot" with the worn-out sspx vs sedevacantist debate, let me remind you of the ultimate purpose of the Catholic Faith:
Salus animarum suprema lex. The salvation of souls is the supreme law.
This is all that matters. You may agree or disagree with +ABL, +Fellay, etc (and I disagree with a LOT concerning +Fellay) but the sspx was founded to save souls and they are still doing so, even if their direction has changed and/or become lukewarm towards modernism.
Still, the fact remains that ANY trad priest is illicit and in schism, if your definitions are applied. But your application of schism is null (for all trads) because the salvation of souls transcends all man-made church laws. We should all remember this.
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Wow... time to change the Head of the SSPX's PR department, Father Wegner.
Th SSPX has suffered three modernist rebuffs in three months:
1. Card Muller.
2. The German Bishops.
3. The neo-trad Cardinal Burke.
I vote to bring back the Englishman.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS_rR0AK-Ph76rObTFC31TUIuSuReROGL_oRCgMmXKmmPpc9M3_WQ)
He'll put the Consiliars on the run, the SSPX back into the real seat of tradition.
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Wow... time to change the Head of the SSPX's PR department, Father Wegner.
Th SSPX has suffered three modernist rebuffs in three months:
1. Card Muller.
2. The German Bishops.
3. The neo-trad Cardinal Burke.
I vote to bring back the Englishman.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS_rR0AK-Ph76rObTFC31TUIuSuReROGL_oRCgMmXKmmPpc9M3_WQ)
He'll put the Consiliars on the run, the SSPX back into the real seat of tradition.
I'd vote for him too... well that's two votes, good luck in getting many more.
The neo-SSPX (many of the faithful as well) will "cut off their nose to spite the face." Too many years were invested to remove this "dinosaur."
In my opinion, there's no saving the "old" SSPX anymore, it has lost ALL credibility.
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There is one small hope to save the SSPX; that is, if Bishop Fellay is not re-elected Superior General next year. It's likely that if he's not re-elected, that the one who would take his place would be of the same mindset. But there is a small hope, though unlikely, that someone with the true vision of Archbishop Lefebvre will be elected instead, and return to the fighting of Modernism and the restoration of tradition, which has now been lost in the SSPX with its current leadership.
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There is one small hope to save the SSPX; that is, if Bishop Fellay is not re-elected Superior General next year. It's likely that if he's not re-elected, that the one who would take his place would be of the same mindset. But there is a small hope, though unlikely, that someone with the true vision of Archbishop Lefebvre will be elected instead, and return to the fighting of Modernism and the restoration of tradition, which has now been lost in the SSPX with its current leadership.
The deck is stacked... might want to consider who the electors are.
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For all of you who enjoy "stirring the pot" with the worn-out sspx vs sedevacantist debate, let me remind you of the ultimate purpose of the Catholic Faith:
Salus animarum suprema lex. The salvation of souls is the supreme law.
This is all that matters. You may agree or disagree with +ABL, +Fellay, etc (and I disagree with a LOT concerning +Fellay) but the sspx was founded to save souls and they are still doing so, even if their direction has changed and/or become lukewarm towards modernism.
Still, the fact remains that ANY trad priest is illicit and in schism, if your definitions are applied. But your application of schism is null (for all trads) because the salvation of souls transcends all man-made church laws. We should all remember this.
This is an over generalization. In pointing out whether certain acts and attitudes are unlawful is not challenging the Church's Divine law or mission.
The groups in question have not proposed the suspension of canonicity or its general inapplicability, they in fact recognize the authority under which it is currently applied and so they have no standing, by their own position, to continue selectively defying it.
According to Salus animarum suprema lex. The salvation of souls is the supreme law the conciliar entity must be considered a schismatic anti-Catholic force within the Church which by all means should be stopped and driven out, not selectively tolerated while it has devastated and lost so many millions of souls and continues to do so every day while preventing the Catholic Church from saving them.
As was said, "you can't have it both ways."
Now if one wants to make the case for suspension of canonicity, so that the religious criminals can be routed out and punished and the Church returned to functionality, then that is a subject worthy of consideration and viable under the greater authority of Salus animarum suprema lex.
If men want to help the Church and Her children they need to start considering the esoteric imperatives over the exoteric laws which stop any meaningful remedy to the Devil's occupying army. If it is the highest law, then it should be held as such and obeyed before all others, as you have correctly proposed. It is,after all the Divine law, and as such a Divine command.
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The deck is stacked... might want to consider who the electors are.
Would you happen to know who the electors are? I don't know how it works, exactly. It's probably the district superiors who are allowed to participate in the election, but maybe it includes more than just them.
Yes, the deck is probably stacked. It would take a bit of a miracle. And a lot of prayers to change the situation.
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Would you happen to know who the electors are? I don't know how it works, exactly. It's probably the district superiors who are allowed to participate in the election, but maybe it includes more than just them.
Yes, it consists primarily of the district superiors and other senior members. We know that the district superiors have been vetted rather well to tote the line of Menzingen.
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This is an over generalization. In pointing out whether certain acts and attitudes are unlawful is not challenging the Church's Divine law or mission.
The groups in question have not proposed the suspension of canonicity or its general inapplicability, they in fact recognize the authority under which it is currently applied and so they have no standing, by their own position, to continue selectively defying it.
According to Salus animarum suprema lex. The salvation of souls is the supreme law the conciliar entity must be considered a schismatic anti-Catholic force within the Church which by all means should be stopped and driven out, not selectively tolerated while it has devastated and lost so many millions of souls and continues to do so every day while preventing the Catholic Church from saving them.
As was said, "you can't have it both ways."
Now if one wants to make the case for suspension of canonicity, so that the religious criminals can be routed out and punished and the Church returned to functionality, then that is a subject worthy of consideration and viable under the greater authority of Salus animarum suprema lex.
If men want to help the Church and Her children they need to start considering the esoteric imperatives over the exoteric laws which stop any meaningful remedy to the Devil's occupying army. If it is the highest law, then it should be held as such and obeyed before all others, as you have correctly proposed. It is,after all the Divine law, and as such a Divine command.
My apologies. I forgot the TRUE supreme law of the church: Outside Sedevacantism there is no salvation.
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My apologies. I forgot the TRUE supreme law of the church: Outside Sedevacantism there is no salvation.
Whatever that means?? I am neither a sedevacantist nor am I a sectarian captive. For these groups there is no other alternative than this false dichotomy, as evidenced in this thread.
I would point out that it was you who invoked the supreme law to defend "your guys", and when held to your own standard you call me a sedevacantist.
This is the reality of the neo-Traditional movement today where critical thinking and logic have been suspended in favor of partisan loyalties.
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The reality is that traditional priests, whether sspx or not, have the duty to provide mass and the sacraments and save souls. Their views on new-rome and its canonical standing as schismatic, modernist, heretical, etc are not as important as saving souls. Therefore, even though i agree with you that the "official" position of the sspx is hypocritical, there are many priests who are using the group to continue to serve the faithful.
Would it be better if every trad priest regarded new-rome as schismatic? Yes. Would it reduce the faithful's need of mass and the sacraments? Not one bit.
Ergo, your argument is based on idealism, which, while good, solves nothing in the present crisis, other than to 'stir the pot'.
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The reality is that traditional priests, whether sspx or not, have the duty to provide mass and the sacraments and save souls. Their views on new-rome and its canonical standing as schismatic, modernist, heretical, etc are not as important as saving souls. Therefore, even though i agree with you that the "official" position of the sspx is hypocritical, there are many priests who are using the group to continue to serve the faithful.
Would it be better if every trad priest regarded new-rome as schismatic? Yes. Would it reduce the faithful's need of mass and the sacraments? Not one bit.
Ergo, your argument is based on idealism, which, while good, solves nothing in the present crisis, other than to 'stir the pot'.
Makes sense to me.
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The reality is that traditional priests, whether sspx or not, have the duty to provide mass and the sacraments and save souls. Their views on new-rome and its canonical standing as schismatic, modernist, heretical, etc are not as important as saving souls. Therefore, even though i agree with you that the "official" position of the sspx is hypocritical, there are many priests who are using the group to continue to serve the faithful.
Would it be better if every trad priest regarded new-rome as schismatic? Yes. Would it reduce the faithful's need of mass and the sacraments? Not one bit.
Ergo, your argument is based on idealism, which, while good, solves nothing in the present crisis, other than to 'stir the pot'.
I would agree with you up to the point of your last sentence. Firstly, the Church has the responsibility and duty to provide the sacraments to Her Children. She is being prevented from doing so, and and souls are dying because of that. It needs to be seen and internalized as tho whom it is that is responsible for this Devil's work, and that should be the first and prime concern of our leaders. Sticking fingers in the dikes rather than stopping the criminals who are poking holes into them will never suffice.
Folks should indeed be seeking the valid sacraments while they can, anywhere they can receive them excepting places where they are being indoctrinated by false or dangerous doctrines.
The saving of one's soul is his first obligation, his personal sectarian preferences are secondary, if that. If a groups position is indeed hypocritical then one should not adhere to their ideas and should avoid taking them to heart or at face value as to do so will confuse them and prevent them from seeing the Truth. Get the sacraments when needed and go no further. Never make their errors your own.
Finally, my argument is based upon principles not ideals. There is right and there is wrong, there is good and there is evil , and the distinctions thereof should never be set aside or minimized for some goal of expediency or man conceived.
When the the fruit is a little rotten, or half rotten, it is no longer fit to serve its purpose according to Divine plan and will. It is tainted and always dangerous to the soul. This reality has been fudged by clerics and other leaders so called, since the council into some hybrid idea that we have the ability and authority to leave the decaying fruit within the basket without it ruining the whole and ourselves along with it. That is the idealism of man's arrogance towards the purity of the Holy things of God. It is practical Liberalism on display.
Yea is Yea, Nay is Nay. That is Christian reality. Living within those boundaries are not idealism, but duty and honor in service of our Creator and His divine order.
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Unfortunately, there are strings attached.
For people who want to have a priest come, they are told to finance and build a chapel.
Once the chapel is built, the SSPX wants to have a free and clear title.
Once the SSPX has free and clear title, they can sell the chapel at any time.
Then the people must do fund raising to buy or build a new chapel if there are any parishioners willing to do so.
Burned once, shame on me; Burned twice ....
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Unfortunately, there are strings attached.
For people who want to have a priest come, they are told to finance and build a chapel.
Once the chapel is built, the SSPX wants to have a free and clear title.
Once the SSPX has free and clear title, they can sell the chapel at any time.
Then the people must do fund raising to buy or build a new chapel if there are any parishioners willing to do so.
Burned once, shame on me; Burned twice ....
Yep, been there done that....
Bp Zendejas isn't requiring this from us though, down side, Mass only every few months...
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Yep, been there done that....
Bp Zendejas isn't requiring this from us though, down side, Mass only every few months...
Every few months is just fine if you are diligent in your daily religious duties in between. Salvation is most dependent upon one's interior disposition and prayer life. The sacraments are a help and an aid. People had become too used to easy access over the years until the council. But that was never the general norm throughout the history of Christendom.
Whatever you get is what should be grateful for. Whatever God makes possible is adequate in most cases.
I will tell you, when you do not have weekly or even monthly confession available, you will become much more careful in avoiding sinful behaviour.
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Every few months is just fine if you are diligent in your daily religious duties in between. Salvation is most dependent upon one's interior disposition and prayer life. The sacraments are a help and an aid. People had become too used to easy access over the years until the council. But that was never the general norm throughout the history of Christendom.
Whatever you get is what should be grateful for. Whatever God makes possible is adequate in most cases.
I will tell you, when you do not have weekly or even monthly confession available, you will become much more careful in avoiding sinful behaviour.
That is so true.
We can become too dependent on our priests. Under communism, people were very fortunate to receive the sacraments as priest were rare.
Look what happened in China and Japan (before the advent of Communism) when Christianity was not allowed. Laymen would baptize the children and instruct them. They were most devout in prayer because that was all they had.
My husband and I are senior citizens, so we cannot drive far, take leisurely trips, and visit chapels or parishes.
Thus prayer has become our life, especially prayers to the Holy Spirit that He may come and dwell within us and keep us from all sin and impurity.
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Just a friendly advisory; there's another hard, yet mostly silent "J" on CI.
May wish to consider treading lightly, because the one invoked at current is far more likely to blow certain gaskets.
For what it's worth....
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Wow... time to change the Head of the SSPX's PR department, Father Wegner.
I vote to bring back the Englishman.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS_rR0AK-Ph76rObTFC31TUIuSuReROGL_oRCgMmXKmmPpc9M3_WQ)
He'll put the Consiliars on the run, the SSPX back into the real seat of tradition.
Honestly, I cannot say that I agree with your statement.
.
.
I really don't think he has the strength or will anymore to do any such thing, if he had the opportunity.
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Just a friendly advisory; there's another hard, yet mostly silent "J" on CI.
May wish to consider treading lightly, because the one invoked at current is far more likely to blow certain gaskets.
For what it's worth....
Perhaps we need to have a mechanic standing by..........
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Perhaps we need to have a mechanic standing by..........
It won't do much good if the mechanic is locked in the vehicle.
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The deck is stacked... might want to consider who the electors are.
Sort of like hoping for a better pope next time!
Anything is possible.....
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Sort of like hoping for a better pope next time!
Anything is possible.....
Praying that the Lord Jesus will come quickly and save us.
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Perhaps we need to have a mechanic standing by..........
With Amazon Prime, you can get this stuff delivered for $4.99 a can.
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/138/976/eb9.png)
Some chapels buy it by the caseload.
The best price may be $2.99 in volume?
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Why not? they are already working their extermination program on us..............
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Yep, been there done that....
Bp Zendejas isn't requiring this from us though, ...
Yet.
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Yet.
Instead of spouting off an apparent biased remark, please substantiate your claim...
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With Amazon Prime, you can get this stuff delivered for $4.99 a can.
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/138/976/eb9.png)
Some chapels buy it by the caseload.
The best price may be $2.99 in volume?
Oh, if only...
Wrong "Hard, yet silent, J" though.
But, spray yourself whilst the can's out Schlomo; nice try sneaking in the "first" via the "second"
j/k, or am I boychik? :furtive:
:jester:
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With Amazon Prime, you can get this stuff delivered for $4.99 a can.
(http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/138/976/eb9.png)
Some chapels buy it by the caseload.
The best price may be $2.99 in volume?
Sadly, it seems that "Goy-be-gone" is a superior product; I suspect that yours is mostly gelt-scented Manischewitz.
Sthymied again...
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The bulk of the Society would not disagree with this comment. Hence the indecent haste to become regularised before it becomes stranded in history as another protestant church. Burke is above all a political animal and is very unlikely to undermine a structure that bestows favours on those that deserve them. Rebels and rival outfits would not be among them.
The above illustrates the impossible bind in which the Society finds itself. Rebels without a cause. Before long they will be begging to be let out of the hole they have created and the price will be to praise the worst excesses of the conciliar revolution. Contempt is a mild word to use for such an eventuality.
Some folk here still think they have things in common with Burke just because he is said to bear a conservative label. By now even those burdened with some naivety have a feeling that conservatism is a slowing down (but not the prevention) of the inevitable. It definitely is not a desire to bring back the past. If there is any friction inside the new church , it will only be about being relevant in today's world. As trads, do we dare to forswear swimming with the tide and feel pangs of joy when hearing about schism from the likes of Burke? Lefebvre's badge of honour comes to mind again.
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By now even those burdened with some naivety have a feeling that conservatism is a slowing down (but not the prevention) of the inevitable.
The "conservative caboose" inevitably squeals in protest at the engine of "progress"; just what do "conservatives" conserve anyway? It surely isn't energy.
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A really useful set of questions to frequently ask, at least of oneself, is:
1. "What categories are in use?"
1. "Where do they come from?"
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Wessex,
The above illustrates the impossible bind in which the Society finds itself. Rebels without a cause. Before long they will be begging to be let out of the hole they have created and the price will be to praise the worst excesses of the conciliar revolution. Contempt is a mild word to use for such an eventuality.
They are simmering in a soup of their own making, with the faction always having the appearance of rebellion but lacking the substance, distancing themselves from, but tolerating those excesses. It is not so far a journey from passive toleration to praise? The starting line having been set much closer to the finish than most followers realized, and the eventuality cloaked with a certain inevitabilty .
Was this seen by the current visionaries? One wonders.
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Burke can easily dismiss the Society since he is the face of the new conservatism. From a weakened position I believe it lacks the strength to become another Opus Dei; something Menzingen would dearly love; a permanent level of haughty detachment on the fringes of the mainstream, comfortably and carefully interpreting and reinterpreting those game-changing conciliar docuмents to avoid any Vatican displeasure.
Menzingen would by now have decided on Fellay's successor unless he can fiddle the constitution because of his importance in the dialogue with Rome. The inner circle will of course rubber-stamp whatever is decided. The rank and file members not being put off living in this state of partial communion over a long period will find full communion a logical move to remove the half-believed schism accusation. And the laity will maintain the habit of visiting their familiar local churches on a Sunday and be relieved that they have remained within the broad Catholic culture ...... always a binding consideration that is often greater than specific belief.
I can only imagine the unpleasant politics within the large district of North America as it moves in the new direction. The very small UK scene will experience very little of this especially after the departure of Fr. Morgan. Integration with the mainstream would probably go unnoticed. The greatly reduced remnant now lacks leadership since Bp. Williamson has turned his back on it. We must be small beer. The opportunity for a London-based revival has come and gone.
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Sadly, it seems that "Goy-be-gone" is a superior product; I suspect that yours is mostly gelt-scented Manischewitz.
Sthymied again...
Some devout neo-trad complained about this cartoon, liking the spray to the German "Zyklon" anti-lice fumigants.
Therefore, I'd like to clarify the contents of "Jew-Be-Gone".
The MSDS contents are:
1. 33% Epiphany Holy water.
2. 25% Commericial Dish-soap.
3. 42% Ham Brine.
cuмulatively, these contents are disgusting to тαℓмυdic Jew and will drive him back into his ѕуηαgσgυє.
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Some devout neo-trad complained about this cartoon, liking the spray to the German "Zyklon" anti-lice fumigants.
Therefore, I'd like to clarify the contents of "Jew-Be-Gone".
The MSDS contents are:
1. 33% Epiphany Holy water.
2. 25% Commericial Dish-soap.
3. 42% Ham Brine.
cuмulatively, these contents are disgusting to тαℓмυdic Jew and will drive him back into his ѕуηαgσgυє.
Did you happen to notice any of a myriad of kosher tax symbols? You have to look very carefully, esp. for off-sized fonts in the text as well.
You still haven't addressed the word "second", BTW. " :furtive: "
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Wessex,
I can only imagine the unpleasant politics within the large district of North America as it moves in the new direction. The very small UK scene will experience very little of this especially after the departure of Fr. Morgan. Integration with the mainstream would probably go unnoticed. The greatly reduced remnant now lacks leadership since Bp. Williamson has turned his back on it. We must be small beer. The opportunity for a London-based revival has come and gone.
The US contingent is quite well trained in the SSPX narrative, and the followers of Bishop Williamson's episcopal band are still most of the way there, save for their distaste for +Fellay's hijinks and see though veneer which barely covers his eagerness to cinch the deal. Most come from the Society's school of thought of tolerating the elephant which has been which messing in the Menzingen ballroom for decades.
There is little will to change that pattern so while there will be a lot of noise, it will be rare to see any fire, and things will go from Sunday to Sunday throughout the Liturgical calender with little real change. I could be mistaken, but I do not believe that I am.
Oh,if that the small cadre of UK faithful would be blessed by a courageous cleric with the integrity of a McNabb and the erudition and courage of a Fahey. You might find your mustard seed sprouting into a genuine counter-revolutionary movement. But for now, we can only visualize and pray against this present paralysis which stifles the very hope that is within us.
Truly, the sheep are scattered. The Alpha rams haven't been seen for a long time, and the betas can only manage to lead us in circles within the fence.
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Wessex,The US contingent is quite well trained in the SSPX narrative, and the followers of Bishop Williamson's episcopal band are still most of the way there, save for their distaste for +Fellay's hijinks and see though veneer which barely covers his eagerness to cinch the deal. Most come from the Society's school of thought of tolerating the elephant which has been which messing in the Menzingen ballroom for decades.
I have no idea where you picked up the bur in your saddle, but you just pretty much have put it over the top with me... so you want to throw me in with the same lot as the neo-SSPXer's? On what grounds? I have no idea of how long you've studied +W, but your opinions are of a malcontent. I've been following the works of the SSPX, along with +W, for probably at least 30yrs. Yes, +W has his faults, just like any other human being, but to throw him in with the same lot as +F and co. is an injustice, IMO. So l guess maybe I'd would really like to know how you can conclude that I've missed the elephant in the room. You have claimed recently that the matters at hand are do to personal sectarian preferences.... I'm beginning to wonder if you aren't guilty of the same, personal sectarian preference of oneself.
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I have no idea where you picked up the bur in your saddle, but you just pretty much have put it over the top with me... so you want to throw me in with the same lot as the neo-SSPXer's? On what grounds? I have no idea of how long you've studied +W, but your opinions are of a malcontent. I've been following the works of the SSPX, along with +W, for probably at least 30yrs. Yes, +W has his faults, just like any other human being, but to throw him in with the same lot as +F and co. is an injustice, IMO. So l guess maybe I'd would really like to know how you can conclude that I've missed the elephant in the room. You have claimed recently that the matters at hand are do to personal sectarian preferences.... I'm beginning to wonder if you aren't guilty of the same, personal sectarian preference of oneself.
I do not believe that I mentioned any one person but as my reply to Wessex has offended you, I will say that I meant not to offend you or anyone else. What I have said is objectively true and accurate. All SSPX groups share the same positions and ideas about what they term as the crisis.
They all conditionally accept the council.
They all conditionally accept the New Order ritual.
They all suspend canonical responsibility for heresy and error from the conciliar popes.
They all adhere to the original R&R formulation and refuse modification according to a changed reality.
In these basic orientations, they are all the same.
The SSPX proper stands apart from them in its willingness to make some way to be regularized by conciliar Rome on compromised principles.
The other dissagree with this and would have more concessions and conditions met by Rome before any arrrangement.
So in this one particular area, they are different.
One must assume that the followers of any of these groups would subscribe to the policies of its leaders which leaves those them in accordance with those leaders. That was the point being discussed.
Bishop Williamson and Bishop Fellay are at odds on the h0Ɩ0h0αx and dealing with Rome, but they both believe in the visionary tales of the SSPX being Divinely singled out in relation to restoring the Church.
Bishop Williamson and Bishop Fellay both believe that the conciliar entity is in fact the Catholic Church.
Here again, they are the same.
On the Bishop himself, he was a greatly respected and loved figure by many, myself include for many years. However since 2014 some things and events which have occurred have caused me to go from unqualified support to cautious support. Realities change, and when they do, one must adapt your view in some manner or you will be following an idealized or false perception of them.
I am no longer tied to any of the above mentioned factions or any others in any concrete way.
I am a partisan of the Catholic Church as She has defined and described Herself. All other loyalties and affections must fall behind that for me.
The burr that is under my saddle, is the concilar Revolution and those who wittingly or unwittingly enable it to continue destroying the Church and Her children. That is the source of my malcontent.
God Bless you St. Ignatius
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The "conservative caboose" inevitably squeals in protest at the engine of "progress"; just what do "conservatives" conserve anyway? It surely isn't energy.
"The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected." -- G.K. Chesterton
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"The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of Conservatives is to prevent mistakes from being corrected." -- G.K. Chesterton
As has been done with the council and the New Mass. What was once heretical and against the Catholic religion is now simply bad spirits and ambiquities. Further on they will be hawked as a new orthodoxy when the next revolutionary movement arrives.
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As has been done with the council and the New Mass. What was once heretical and against the Catholic religion is now simply bad spirits and ambiquities. Further on they will be hawked as a new orthodoxy when the next revolutionary movement arrives.
V3 N.O.M.N.O.M (https://youtu.be/vLPfMtHK0Rk?t=30s)
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V3 N.O.M.N.O.M (https://youtu.be/vLPfMtHK0Rk?t=30s)
The Jewing intensifies.......................................
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The Jewing intensifies.......................................
"Mazel!"
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The Jewing intensifies.......................................
I like this action verb :ready-to-eat:
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I do not believe that I mentioned any one person but as my reply to Wessex has offended you, I will say that I meant not to offend you or anyone else. What I have said is objectively true and accurate. All SSPX groups share the same positions and ideas about what they term as the crisis.
They all conditionally accept the council.
They all conditionally accept the New Order ritual.
They all suspend canonical responsibility for heresy and error from the conciliar popes.
They all adhere to the original R&R formulation and refuse modification according to a changed reality.
In these basic orientations, they are all the same.
The SSPX proper stands apart from them in its willingness to make some way to be regularized by conciliar Rome on compromised principles.
The other dissagree with this and would have more concessions and conditions met by Rome before any arrrangement.
So in this one particular area, they are different.
One must assume that the followers of any of these groups would subscribe to the policies of its leaders which leaves those them in accordance with those leaders. That was the point being discussed.
Bishop Williamson and Bishop Fellay are at odds on the h0Ɩ0h0αx and dealing with Rome, but they both believe in the visionary tales of the SSPX being Divinely singled out in relation to restoring the Church.
Bishop Williamson and Bishop Fellay both believe that the conciliar entity is in fact the Catholic Church.
Here again, they are the same.
On the Bishop himself, he was a greatly respected and loved figure by many, myself include for many years. However since 2014 some things and events which have occurred have caused me to go from unqualified support to cautious support. Realities change, and when they do, one must adapt your view in some manner or you will be following an idealized or false perception of them.
I am no longer tied to any of the above mentioned factions or any others in any concrete way.
I am a partisan of the Catholic Church as She has defined and described Herself. All other loyalties and affections must fall behind that for me.
The burr that is under my saddle, is the concilar Revolution and those who wittingly or unwittingly enable it to continue destroying the Church and Her children. That is the source of my malcontent.
God Bless you St. Ignatius
Thank you JPaul for your calm and composed reply...
We are traveling the same storm, but obviously by different routes of experience.
For at least the last 25 years, I have been privileged to have had the opportunity to know a good number of SSPX priests, mostly of English speaking countries. I believe that I had a good cross-section of the make up of the general opinions held by these various priests. I must conclude, as individuals, their opinions were defiantly not standardized in nature.
After the 2000 Jubilee, +F and Fr Schmidberger started their crusade to promote their new found friends in Rome. Following this crusade, I noticed some sentiments developing within some priests in favor of +F's and Fr Schmidberger's new found vision. It wasn't until after 2012 did I begin to hear common "standardized" opinions, thanks to the "talking points" being established by their superiors. (The most recent Cor Unum suggests that not ALL are yet of the same opinion as that of the neo-SSPX headquarters.) So why would one not find a common opinion in regards to relations with Rome? I think the answer is in one of +W's remarks about his colleagues, they didn't understand who the archbishop was. Take that for what it's worth.
My current position now must be credited, to one degree or another, to some of these priests. Making concessions with Rome was never one of them.
As for the position of one of the R&R, to what reality must one adjust to? This crisis is not one that will be corrected from the bottom up... as +W correctly states, this crisis will only come to an end with a good pope. "When the shepard is struck, the sheep will scatter."
I believe that the SSPX definitely has/had a great role to execute in the Divine Plan of preserving It's Traditions. One of the things that put +W at odds with his colleagues in earlier years was that he reminded them that the SSPX was NOT the Church. God could take this favor at any time.
The superiors of Menzingen have scuttled the "lifeboat." The days of a structured "Resistance" are over. So this then results in more confusion and misery for the faithful trying to fulfill their duties as good Catholics.
We're in a lifeboat of a lifeboat now, praying and hoping for better and happier times to come. Also, this is one of the reasons for +W to suggest a "loose association."
Sorry this reply doesn't address everything in your reply, but this will have to suffice for now....
"I am a partisan of the Catholic Church as She has defined and described Herself. All other loyalties and affections must fall behind that for me."
As it should be... good for you.
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Why does Cdl. Burke think "the Holy Father has given the priests of the Priestly Society of St. Pius X faculties to celebrate validly marriages, licitly and validly"? From what I understand, Francis stipulated a Novus Ordo priest had to be present at SSPX weddings. Perhaps Cdl. Burke thinks the SSPX has supplied jurisdiction? And he thinks schismatics have jurisdiction? He's right that the SSPX situation is "an anomaly," though.
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Anyone have the original audio of Cdl. Burke saying this?
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Anyone have the original audio of Cdl. Burke saying this?
Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2bmiWKsA9M