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Author Topic: Swing and a Miss!  (Read 1522 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

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Swing and a Miss!
« on: September 03, 2023, 12:03:15 PM »
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  • I knew today, the Feast of Pope St. Pius X (patronal feast of the SSPX), the sermon would be a barnburner!

    Surely we'd be told about the great sainted pope's battles against the modernist heretics; how he used the Sodalitium Pianum to root the modernists out of the colleges, priories, chanceries, schools, and lecture circuits.

    We'd be given a doctrinal sermon about the nature of modernism: What it is, and how it manifests itself.  Most likely, we'd be acquainted with Pascendi and the Syllabus.

    Then I had no doubt we'd learn about renascent modernism; about how Benedixt XV reopened the door to it after Pope St. Pius X died; and how it eventually resulted in Vatican II.

    Then as a grand finale, we'd hear about the glories of Lefevre's combat, picking up the sword left behind by St. Pius X, and laying waste to modernists on all sides, rebuilding a hope of the Church recovering from the crisis.

    We'd surely be told to stay clear of Roman modernism, exhorted to carry on the antimodernist fight, having no part of the conciliar disease, and keeping the pilot light lit until sanity returned to Rome.

    Yes, this was going to be a great day.  We'd all come out with recharged batteries, ready for Catholic Action, and reconquer the Church for Christ.


    Instead, the sermon was about the importance Pope St. Pius placed on catechism.

    A swing and a miss.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Swing and a Miss!
    « Reply #1 on: September 03, 2023, 12:13:07 PM »
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  • I get the importance of catechism, but it sure does sound like deliberately-watered-down intentionally-non-controversial pablum.


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Swing and a Miss!
    « Reply #2 on: September 03, 2023, 12:15:01 PM »
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  • I get the importance of catechism, but it sure does sound like deliberately-watered-down intentionally-non-controversial pablum.

    Yup.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline St Giles

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    Re: Swing and a Miss!
    « Reply #3 on: September 03, 2023, 01:02:47 PM »
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  • Not every SSPX priest misses. We didn't get a home run, but it was pretty good, much of what you mentioned was talked about.
    "Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect."
    "Seek first the kingdom of Heaven..."
    "Every idle word that men shall speak, they shall render an account for it in the day of judgment"

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Swing and a Miss!
    « Reply #4 on: September 03, 2023, 01:06:06 PM »
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  • Not every SSPX priest misses. We didn't get a home run, but it was pretty good, much of what you mentioned was talked about.

    Good for you.

    A) Your priest is in a SMALL, SHRINKING MINORITY.
    B) Your priest is the SSPX past -- they no longer form priests like they did when he was at the Seminary. We're talking about changes that have *already taken place*.
    C) Your priest's bosses (prior, district superior, superior general) are almost certainly Accordist, Conciliarist and/or Modernist. That's the real problem, and why the SSPX is doomed.
    D) Related to C), anything Traditional your priest does is IN OPPOSITION TO the will of his boss(es).
    E) Priests like you describe are TOLERATED -- FOR NOW.
    F) Promoters of the Resistance (like myself) -- at least the sane, realistic ones -- have never said there's no good left in the SSPX. You don't stop a freight train on a dime, come on! We're talking about hundreds of priests, most were trained decades ago. Just by human nature, many will be "set in their ways" which is a GOOD THING for those conservative/traditional who prefer the old SSPX. So yeah, with enough luck and/or hard work, you can find priests who still "do their jobs" and were basically formed as old-school SSPX priests. But they are not the future, as I said. In fact, they are now a dying breed.
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    Offline Jr1991

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    Re: Swing and a Miss!
    « Reply #5 on: September 03, 2023, 01:16:21 PM »
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  • Good for you.

    A) Your priest is in a SMALL, SHRINKING MINORITY.
    B) Your priest is the SSPX past -- they no longer form priests like they did when he was at the Seminary. We're talking about changes that have *already taken place*.
    C) Your priest's bosses (prior, district superior, superior general) are almost certainly Accordist, Conciliarist and/or Modernist. That's the real problem, and why the SSPX is doomed.
    D) Related to C), anything Traditional your priest does is IN OPPOSITION TO the will of his boss(es).
    E) Priests like you describe are TOLERATED -- FOR NOW.
    F) Promoters of the Resistance (like myself) -- at least the sane, realistic ones -- have never said there's no good left in the SSPX. You don't stop a freight train on a dime, come on! We're talking about hundreds of priests, most were trained decades ago. Just by human nature, many will be "set in their ways" which is a GOOD THING for those conservative/traditional who prefer the old SSPX. So yeah, with enough luck and/or hard work, you can find priests who still "do their jobs" and were basically formed as old-school SSPX priests. But they are not the future, as I said. In fact, they are now a dying breed.

    I agree. In fact, if the local diocesan bishop finds out about this sermon, he may discipline this SSPX priest. Does anyone think it can’t happen? The SSPX is already celebrating confirmations at local Diocesan Churches.

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Swing and a Miss!
    « Reply #6 on: September 03, 2023, 01:19:38 PM »
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  • In the old days, a Conciliar-leaning SSPX priest would keep his Conciliarism to himself so he could fly under the radar. Today, it's the opposite. If you're Traditional-leaning, you keep THAT to yourself so you can fly under the radar.
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    Offline 2Vermont

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    Re: Swing and a Miss!
    « Reply #7 on: September 03, 2023, 02:48:25 PM »
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  • So how far along would we say the frog is boiled now?


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: Swing and a Miss!
    « Reply #8 on: September 03, 2023, 03:58:23 PM »
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  • In the old days, a Conciliar-leaning SSPX priest would keep his Conciliarism to himself so he could fly under the radar. Today, it's the opposite. If you're Traditional-leaning, you keep THAT to yourself so you can fly under the radar.

    That sounds about right.

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Swing and a Miss!
    « Reply #9 on: September 04, 2023, 12:05:46 PM »
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  • And believe me, there WERE conciliar-leaning priests in the old SSPX. Today they have almost all left the SSPX to make their own private deal/peace/truce with the Conciliar Church.

    Fr. Brendan Arthur, for example. He was just never Traditional -- he made a good show during his Seminary years, but the day after his Ordination he appeared in a clerical suit. He was still staying at the Seminary! He hadn't even left yet. I tried not to be scandalized, but sure enough -- just a couple years later, he left the SSPX and rejoined his diocese in Australia. He now says 95% English or vernacular Masses. The church he was posted too (I saw online) only offered 1 Tridentine Mass a month. All the other Masses would be in vernacular tongues.

    Fr. Doran also used to say things like "the Tridentine Mass isn't coming back. People are too used to the Novus Ordo now; the best we can hope for is a hybrid Mass. Many things in the Tridentine Mass make no sense; it's far from perfect." I didn't think it that jaw-dropping or unreasonable at the time -- but looking back, it makes sense. Fr. Doran has since left the SSPX to join the MOST LIBERAL of all the Eastern Rites, the Maronite Rite.
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    Offline Sneedevacantist

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    Re: Swing and a Miss!
    « Reply #10 on: September 04, 2023, 04:14:12 PM »
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  • We got a solid sermon about Pope Pius X, talking about he wanted to restore all things in Christ. We were told about his dedication to catechism, emphasis on frequent Holy Communion, dedication to Mary, and a strong adherence to tradition in opposition to modernism.


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Swing and a Miss!
    « Reply #11 on: September 04, 2023, 04:28:37 PM »
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  • We got a solid sermon about Pope Pius X, talking about he wanted to restore all things in Christ. We were told about his dedication to catechism, emphasis on frequent Holy Communion, dedication to Mary, and a strong adherence to tradition in opposition to modernism.

    Did you get anything about how Dignitatis Humanae makes the restoration of all things in Christ impossible?

    Or how the Cardinal Secretary of State traveled the world after V2 to amend the few remaining concordats in Spain, Columbia, or Ireland to bring them into line with V2?

    Or why Catholics must reject the errors of Vatican II?

    Or Pius X’s fight against modernism?


    Or Lefebvre’s fight against modernism?

    Etc.

    You certainly did at every resistance chapel on the planet, but probably at none of the SSPX chapels on the planet.

    Why do you think that might be? 
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Sneedevacantist

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    Re: Swing and a Miss!
    « Reply #12 on: September 04, 2023, 04:52:05 PM »
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  • Did you get anything about how Dignitatis Humanae makes the restoration of all things in Christ impossible?

    Or how the Cardinal Secretary of State traveled the world after V2 to amend the few remaining concordats in Spain, Columbia, or Ireland to bring them into line with V2?
    Nothing explicit was mentioned about Vatican II, though the priest did make a comment that Pope Pius X's plan to restore all things in Christ wasn't really followed after his passing. Implicit criticism is about as good as it will get in the neo-SSPX.

    Quote
    Or why Catholics must reject the errors of Vatican II?
    Outside of mentioning the importance of adhering to tradition and rejecting modernism, nothing explicitly mentioning VII. It was a brief sermon, and I wish there was a deeper dive into the nitty gritty.

    Quote
    Or Pius X’s fight against modernism?


    Or Lefebvre’s fight against modernism?

    Etc.
    Like I mentioned above, it was mentioned about Pius X's great fight against modernism. The priest did have a funny quip at the beginning of his sermon where he described Pius X as the greatest saint of the 20th century, besides Archbishop Lefebvre.

    Quote
    You certainly did at every resistance chapel on the planet, but probably at none of the SSPX chapels on the planet.

    Why do you think that might be?
    I fully understand why SSPX priests can't rock the boat too hard when it comes to attacking the conciliar church (though I did get to hear an excellent sermon a few weeks ago from an older SSPX priest attacking the false ecuмenism that resulted from VII). The neo-SSPX hierarchy is compromised and the neo-SSPX itself is a sinking ship.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: Swing and a Miss!
    « Reply #13 on: September 04, 2023, 04:59:08 PM »
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  • We got a solid sermon about Pope Pius X, talking about he wanted to restore all things in Christ. We were told about his dedication to catechism, emphasis on frequent Holy Communion, dedication to Mary, and a strong adherence to tradition in opposition to modernism.

    Glad to hear it. It's more than what would be said at an Indult Mass, where Modernism is rarely mentioned. 
    "It is licit to resist a Sovereign Pontiff who is trying to destroy the Church. I say it is licit to resist him in not following his orders and in preventing the execution of his will. It is not licit to Judge him, to punish him, or to depose him, for these are acts proper to a superior."

    ~St. Robert Bellarmine
    De Romano Pontifice, Lib.II, c.29

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: Swing and a Miss!
    « Reply #14 on: September 04, 2023, 05:30:45 PM »
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  • Nothing explicit was mentioned about Vatican II, though the priest did make a comment that Pope Pius X's plan to restore all things in Christ wasn't really followed after his passing. Implicit criticism is about as good as it will get in the neo-SSPX.
    Outside of mentioning the importance of adhering to tradition and rejecting modernism, nothing explicitly mentioning VII. It was a brief sermon, and I wish there was a deeper dive into the nitty gritty.
    Like I mentioned above, it was mentioned about Pius X's great fight against modernism. The priest did have a funny quip at the beginning of his sermon where he described Pius X as the greatest saint of the 20th century, besides Archbishop Lefebvre.
    I fully understand why SSPX priests can't rock the boat too hard when it comes to attacking the conciliar church (though I did get to hear an excellent sermon a few weeks ago from an older SSPX priest attacking the false ecuмenism that resulted from VII). The neo-SSPX hierarchy is compromised and the neo-SSPX itself is a sinking ship.

    Hello Sneed-

    Being rather new (at least in terms of post count), I haven't paid much attention to your posts, but I find a certain....nonpartisanship....in them, which is appealing.

    That's a rather fresh breath of air.

    Perhaps I'll pay more attention going forward.

    Pax tecuм.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."