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Author Topic: Statue of Our Lady of Good Success shows disfavor to SSPX priests?  (Read 9467 times)

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Offline CestMoiJeanneMarie

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Re: Statue of Our Lady of Good Success shows disfavor to SSPX priests?
« Reply #60 on: February 26, 2019, 11:55:31 AM »
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  • Ladislaus, any news?


    Offline Markus

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    Re: Statue of Our Lady of Good Success shows disfavor to SSPX priests?
    « Reply #61 on: February 26, 2019, 02:05:07 PM »
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  • The "good Catholic men who for two decades have been bringing the Statue from the choir" are the TFP, whom have not always been so good according to some SSPX/Resistance faithful who have been on that pilgrimage many times.

    The TFP has its problems but I doubt you would agree with Vox Catholica and go as far to say that they are a "non-Catholic sect". You know the Society has gone too far when even Tradition in Action is defending the TFP. That was a surprise, since the two organisations have had disagreements for over two decades, since Mr. Atila's expulsion from the TFP in the 90s.


    Quote
    What a mess!

    Let's get back to reality here, Mr. Guimaraes article is showing itself to be unresearched and emotionally based, very uncharacteristic of him. Here are just three quotes that he wrote in this article that discredits the entire article:

    1) The statue can change it's face according to how it feels - this would be a spectacular miracle for the world to see, not just a comment in an article. What proof does he have?

    2) The statue can makes itself heavy so that no one can lift her, and makes itself light so that even an elderly lady can lift it. - Again, this would be a spectacular miracle for the world to see, not just a comment in an article. What proof does he have?

    3) The bishop got bribed by the SSPX - this is a serious charge that he posts based on only hearsay (which he acknowledges in the article) . Not only that, it makes no sense, why would the SSPX pay the millions of dollars of which the Bishop is still in debt after the pope's visit, or even $10,0000, just to get the privilege of replacing the Franciscan priests who have always been carrying the statues down from a choir loft?  
    Unresearched and emotionally biased? No. Mr. Atila and Dr. Marian Horvat are among the foremost researchers of Our Lady of Good Success in the United States. They do not have a record for emotional biases, either, which you can verify by reading any of their many hundreds of articles on the TIA site about a variety of topics.

    The statue most certainly can change its face, as you can verify by reading the amazing story of the Miracle of '41: https://traditioninaction.org/OLGS/A019olgsMiracle_1.htm


    If docuмented miracles (the statue changing its face) have occurred in the past, witnessed by many, it isn't unreasonable to assume more miracles would happen today, when the Crisis in the Church is reaching its apogee. What is so incredible about Our Lady forbidding unworthy people to carry her statue?

    You say it would make international headlines if there truly was a miracle. I say, no, not necessarily. Only if Our Lady, in her supreme humility, willed it to be known to the world, would it be known. That is why for 400 years from the original apparitions to Mother Mariana, the devotion to Our Lady of Good Success was scarcely known beyond Ecuador. Our Lady herself told Mother Mariana that knowledge of the devotion would be shrouded in a mysterious veil until the 20th century. Even to this day, Our Lady has not allowed the devotion to spread nearly as rapidly as the devotions to Our Lady of Lourdes or Fatima. Otherwise, no doubt, there would be novenas, pictures and statues of Our Lady of Good Success in every respectable Catholic church today.

    In so many words, I believe this miracle because Mr. Atila is a reliable source and no doubt he will have more evidence to provide in the future. And I believe it is not well-known as it would normally be due to the will of Our Blessed Mother.

    Also, as for the alleged bribery of the bishop, call it what you will, but Mr. Atila's most recent article gives very good reason to believe this actually happened. See here: https://www.traditioninaction.org/bev/229bev02_25_2019.htm


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: Statue of Our Lady of Good Success shows disfavor to SSPX priests?
    « Reply #62 on: February 26, 2019, 03:16:04 PM »
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  • John McFarland has chimed in, for what it's worth:


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    If I were you, I wouldn't give much credence to Atila Guimaraes, who is the unquestioned chief of Tradition in Action. 

    Some years ago, to my openmouthed stupefaction, Tradition in Action claimed that Fr. Guerard des Lauriers had claimed that ABL had said the New Mass at Econe until 1971.  I haven't looked back at the piece yet, but my recollection is that it had ABL inviting eminent traditionalist to his Mass at St. Mary Major in May 1969 that turned out to be a New Mass. No, I am not making this up.  You can pull it up on the Tradition in Action site.  This is all obviously complete madness.  Guimaraes was a TFP member and a fervent disciple of Professor Plinio.  Like PP, he's quite smart and sound on a number of things, and somewhat whacko on others.  +Castro de Mayer, who was a friend and ally of PP, finally ended up breaking with him and I believe ordered his flock to have nothing to do with TFP.  I believe it was because TPF had generated into a nut cult with PP as the cult leader.  As a result (although he denies it), Guimaraes is very hostile to the SSPX.  So if you're looking for allies who hate the Society, TIA fills the bill.  But if you insist on reliable information, I don't think it's what you need.

    As you can see, Fr. Haenny was really angry.  Among other things, he was in Quito and Guimaraes wasn't. 

    In caritate,
    Jack

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    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Statue of Our Lady of Good Success shows disfavor to SSPX priests?
    « Reply #63 on: February 26, 2019, 04:32:31 PM »
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  • John McFarland has chimed in, for what it's worth:

    If I were you, I wouldn't give much credence to Atila Guimaraes, who is the unquestioned chief of Tradition in Action. 

    Some years ago, to my openmouthed stupefaction, Tradition in Action claimed that Fr. Guerard des Lauriers had claimed that ABL had said the New Mass at Econe until 1971.  …..

    As you can see, Fr. Haenny was really angry.  Among other things, he was in Quito and Guimaraes wasn't. 
    1) The American priests who were at Econe at the time have said that they were the ones that convinced ABL to stop doing the Novus Ordo. So, there should be no "open mouth stupefaction" at hearing that others saw the same.  

    2) Guimaraes begins his article with "This year I was able to be in Quito on February 2, the Feast Day of Our Lady of Good Success". 
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24

    Offline cosmas

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    Re: Statue of Our Lady of Good Success shows disfavor to SSPX priests?
    « Reply #64 on: February 26, 2019, 04:33:42 PM »
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  • Jean Madiran vs Guérard des Lauriers



    Note from the editor: 

    We received two weeks ago a letter from a reader alleging that Fr. Guérard des Lauriers was wrong when he stated that Msgr. Marcel Lefebvre said the New Mass for a period of time and called him a Pontius Pilate

    The alleged proof for this affirmation is a May 1980 16-page article in French by Mr. Jean Madiran defending Msgr. Lefebvre and attacking Fr. Des Lauriers. 

    Since we did not have time to read the piece, our reader is coming to the conclusion that we at TIA do not care for the truth and are biased in attacking Msgr. Lefebvre. 

    To show our good will – although without time to translate the whole debate –, we are posting the letter by Mr. Madiran for those who are interested in knowing his version of the events and can read French. 

    Shortly, we will be placing a link to this explanation on the articles of Fr. Lauriers we posted on our website so that any reader who understands French may take into consideration the arguments of Mr. Madiran. 

    The article in PDF format can be read here

         A.S. Guimarães 


    Offline DavyCrockett

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    Re: Statue of Our Lady of Good Success shows disfavor to SSPX priests?
    « Reply #65 on: February 26, 2019, 10:02:25 PM »
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  • Look, everybody knows that I'm no fan of the Neo-SSPX. That being said, lets get real here:

    The statue of Our Lady of Good Success is not Thor's hammer. This isn't an Avengers movie. The TFP and TIA are upset that the Bishop kicked them out, and now they're trying to make as much fuss as they can to show that if they don't get their way, they're going to make the Archbishop's life a living hell, and the same for his successor.

    Maybe, the Neo-SSPX paid off the bishop, maybe they didn't, but statues don't just become magically heavy to show their displeasure...

    And let me get this straight... You want me to believe that Our Lady was upset with the Neo-SSPX (which is somewhat understandable) but she was less upset with a Novus Ordo Franciscan convent riddled with ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs and pedophile priests? Really? Come on, you've got to do better than this.

    Show me proof, for example that the baby Jesus got so heavy that nobody could pick Him up.

    I'll wait.......

    Offline Markus

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    Re: Statue of Our Lady of Good Success shows disfavor to SSPX priests?
    « Reply #66 on: February 26, 2019, 10:58:21 PM »
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  • Look, everybody knows that I'm no fan of the Neo-SSPX.
    No, actually. Who are you? :)

    Offline Markus

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    Re: Statue of Our Lady of Good Success shows disfavor to SSPX priests?
    « Reply #67 on: February 26, 2019, 10:59:25 PM »
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  • John McFarland has chimed in, for what it's worth:
    McFarland claims Mr. Atila was not in Quito. That was a mistake. Mr. Atila was in Quito for (I believe) over a week. He was present while these things occurred, which is why he wrote the articles in the first place.


    Offline DavyCrockett

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    Re: Statue of Our Lady of Good Success shows disfavor to SSPX priests?
    « Reply #68 on: February 27, 2019, 12:06:32 AM »
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  • No, actually. Who are you? :)
    I’m an old friend.

    Still waiting for some evidence that discredits my post.

    If someone wants to say “oh look, the Society has compromised and is working with Novus Ordo people” let them say it. When someone says that Our Lady is more pleased with ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs and pedophiles, I want some evidence. 

    Guimarães writes in his initial article: “The Statue allowed herself to be transported by the Franciscans, but they could not move the Child Jesus, who in turn became insurmountably heavy. So, for that first night the Statue remained in the Church without the Christ Child in her arm. The next morning the Mother Superior could easily pick up the Child and place Him in the arm of His Mother.”

    If Our Lady was going to perform a miracle to show displeasure, in this day and age, how does it make ANY sense at all with the scandals in the church that She would allow this order, as Guimarães puts it “infected with ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs” to carry her? How does that add up? 

    I’m not arguing that the monastery ISNT infected, I’m just saying this doesn’t make any logical sense. I think the TFP folks are just upset they weren’t allowed to carry her, and they’re making up stories and relying on the superstition of the Ecuadorian people to try and get back into the good graces of the convent, and that’s fine. Just don’t make up rediculous and literally unbelievable stories about statues not being able to be picked up... in this day and age I’m sure that there was a cell phone in the crowd taking pictures, or video or something. All I’m saying is before I believe, I wanna see it with my own eyes, and not fall prey to any “vain babblers.”

    Call me Doubting Thomas.

    Offline cosmas

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    Re: Statue of Our Lady of Good Success shows disfavor to SSPX priests?
    « Reply #69 on: February 27, 2019, 12:13:54 AM »
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  • One more point, The statue of Baby Jesus is not the Authentic Statue, The Original Statue of Baby Jesus. The Original Authentic Statue of Baby Jesus is Hidden in The wall of the Convent. To be brought out I believe in the very end time. It will be revealed where It is hidden at a later time.

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Statue of Our Lady of Good Success shows disfavor to SSPX priests?
    « Reply #70 on: February 27, 2019, 12:55:38 AM »
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  • 1) The American priests who were at Econe at the time have said that they were the ones that convinced ABL to stop doing the Novus Ordo. So, there should be no "open mouth stupefaction" at hearing that others saw the same.  

    2) Guimaraes begins his article with "This year I was able to be in Quito on February 2, the Feast Day of Our Lady of Good Success".

    Bless his heart... John sometimes misconstrues "who said what?" in trad history,
    but he has good intentions...  I think :furtive:
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: Statue of Our Lady of Good Success shows disfavor to SSPX priests?
    « Reply #71 on: February 27, 2019, 01:10:01 AM »
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  • I’m an old friend.

    Still waiting for some evidence that discredits my post.

    If someone wants to say “oh look, the Society has compromised and is working with Novus Ordo people” let them say it. When someone says that Our Lady is more pleased with ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs and pedophiles, I want some evidence.

    Guimarães writes in his initial article: “The Statue allowed herself to be transported by the Franciscans, but they could not move the Child Jesus, who in turn became insurmountably heavy. So, for that first night the Statue remained in the Church without the Christ Child in her arm. The next morning the Mother Superior could easily pick up the Child and place Him in the arm of His Mother.”

    If Our Lady was going to perform a miracle to show displeasure, in this day and age, how does it make ANY sense at all with the scandals in the church that She would allow this order, as Guimarães puts it “infected with ɧoɱosɛҳųαƖs” to carry her? How does that add up?

    I’m not arguing that the monastery ISNT infected, I’m just saying this doesn’t make any logical sense. I think the TFP folks are just upset they weren’t allowed to carry her, and they’re making up stories and relying on the superstition of the Ecuadorian people to try and get back into the good graces of the convent, and that’s fine. Just don’t make up rediculous and literally unbelievable stories about statues not being able to be picked up... in this day and age I’m sure that there was a cell phone in the crowd taking pictures, or video or something. All I’m saying is before I believe, I wanna see it with my own eyes, and not fall prey to any “vain babblers.”

    Call me Doubting Thomas.

    Okay Davy, you don't have to believe in Our Lady of Good Success and recent events.

    Actually, we didn't expect any dead Freemason to have the virtue of Catholic discernment.


    Now go on, get out of here, before I find your grave and spit on it.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline chrstnoel1

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    Re: Statue of Our Lady of Good Success shows disfavor to SSPX priests?
    « Reply #72 on: February 27, 2019, 03:38:43 AM »
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  • Okay Davy, you don't have to believe in Our Lady of Good Success and recent events.

    Actually, we didn't expect any dead Freemason to have the virtue of Catholic discernment.


    Now go on, get out of here, before I find your grave and spit on it.
    :jester: :applause: :popcorn: :cheers: 
    i am with you Incredulous  :ready-to-eat:
    "It is impious to say, 'I respect every religion.' This is as much as to say: I respect the devil as much as God, vice as much as virtue, falsehood as much as truth, dishonesty as much as honesty, Hell as much as Heaven."
    Fr. Michael Muller, The Church and Her Enemies

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: Statue of Our Lady of Good Success shows disfavor to SSPX priests?
    « Reply #73 on: February 27, 2019, 08:41:42 AM »
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  • One person's account doth not a miracle make.  There needs to be more credible evidence for this "miraculous" story.  So far, there's just heresay.

    Offline Last Tradhican

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    Re: Statue of Our Lady of Good Success shows disfavor to SSPX priests?
    « Reply #74 on: February 27, 2019, 09:00:58 AM »
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  • One person's account doth not a miracle make.  There needs to be more credible evidence for this "miraculous" story.  So far, there's just heresay.
    What is incredible is that the SSPX has not said anything about "the miracles", for that would be the first point I would bring up. The SSPX instead chose to defend the bishop "honor" against the charges of being bribed, which is the last thing I would do, as all Novus Ordo bishops have skeletons in the closet. The SSPX set themselves up with that defense, and Guimaraes jumped on it first.
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24