Author Topic: Statement by Fr. Paul Morgan, District Superior, (Read 8627 times)

Maizar · « **Reply #15 on:** May 29, 2013, 01:33:27 AM »

I thought I priest is only able to function as a delegate of his bishop, who gives him his faculties. If a bishop relinquishes this, the priest is unable to function. If a priest cannot tell you who his bishop is, he is no priest.

Wessex · « **Reply #16 on:** May 29, 2013, 05:22:05 AM »

At the moment, Bp. W is spending his time serving scattered trad groups and has speaking engagements of a political nature that are not strictly Catholic/Christian. He is seeing how the SSPX dissidence works out before greater involvement and could be using ABL's approach as a guide. I am sure he will respond to requests from priests and potential seminarians if it is substantial. If not, he may conclude that we are in the final days of the priesthood and that any new structure is pointless.

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #17 on:** May 29, 2013, 07:22:29 AM »

Quote from: Wessex

At the moment, Bp. W is spending his time serving scattered trad groups and has speaking engagements of a political nature that are not strictly Catholic/Christian. He is seeing how the SSPX dissidence works out before greater involvement and could be using ABL's approach as a guide. I am sure he will respond to requests from priests and potential seminarians if it is substantial. If not, he may conclude that we are in the final days of the priesthood and that any new structure is pointless.

His position is the latter, but based on the conversation in the other thread, it is also a self-fulfilling prophecy:

If priests and seminarians who would otherwise join the resistance stay within the compromised SSPX because they have nowhere to go, knowing Bishop Williamson will not found an alternative structure, then it stands to reason there will be very limited demand on him by same;

In which case he will feel justified concluding we are in the end times of the priesthood, and there is no point trying to found a new order;

In which case the situation will have become a self-fulfilling prophecy, which could have been avoided with a bit of initiative from His Lordship.

"If you build it, they will come."

Or at least, there is a chance.

But if you don't, they won't/can't.

And this much is certain: Without such a new structure to attempt to attract and form seminarians, the resistance is on a slow trajectory of petering out, being unable to reproduce clergy. As things stand presently, there is not one single seminarian candidate in the pipeline.

Something needs to change.

The definition of insanity: To do the same thing over and over and expect different results.

Francisco · « **Reply #18 on:** May 29, 2013, 09:52:01 AM »

Quote from: SeanJohnson

Quote from: Wessex
At the moment, Bp. W is spending his time serving scattered trad groups and has speaking engagements of a political nature that are not strictly Catholic/Christian. He is seeing how the SSPX dissidence works out before greater involvement and could be using ABL's approach as a guide. I am sure he will respond to requests from priests and potential seminarians if it is substantial. If not, he may conclude that we are in the final days of the priesthood and that any new structure is pointless.

His position is the latter, but based on the conversation in the other thread, it is also a self-fulfilling prophecy:

If priests and seminarians who would otherwise join the resistance stay within the compromised SSPX because they have nowhere to go, knowing Bishop Williamson will not found an alternative structure, then it stands to reason there will be very limited demand on him by same;

In which case he will feel justified concluding we are in the end times of the priesthood, and there is no point trying to found a new order;

In which case the situation will have become a self-fulfilling prophecy, which could have been avoided with a bit of initiative from His Lordship.

"If you build it, they will come."

Or at least, there is a chance.

But if you don't, they won't/can't.

And this much is certain: Without such a new structure to attempt to attract and form seminarians, the resistance is on a slow trajectory of petering out, being unable to reproduce clergy. As things stand presently, there is not one single seminarian candidate in the pipeline.

Something needs to change.

The definition of insanity: To do the same thing over and over and expect different results.

Bp Williamson, to me at least, never wanted to leave the SSPX which must be the love of his life. Bp Fellay expelled him. If past reports in TRADITIO are to be believed, there is a whole list of Resistance priests. Hopefully they will form at least an informal alliance and arrange for " epsicopal care ", which is hardly impossible as there are many Trad bishops around. This group of Resistance priests must think of the future.

Zzz · « **Reply #19 on:** May 29, 2013, 10:05:38 AM »

Bp. W is not the problem. He's not keeping anyone from speaking his mind. His recommendation that those who do speak out, who do see something wrong, take 3 months and "pray about it" is good advice: Fr. Hewko did it and anyone who knows him can testify to his resolve. I expect Fr. G will be the same when his 3 months are up.

The fact is a lot of priests in the SSPX and a lot of "trads" think Bp. W is crazy with too many wrong "opinions." What do you want him to do? Whatever following the "Resistance" has isn't going to get any bigger just because Bp. W decides to head a new org. Even among the quote unquote Resistance, I find a lot of "trads" with "opinions"--unstable men and women who want to be reassured that their faith is not failing them. One day they're ready to "fight" to the death, the next they're frustrated that the priest isn't coming to their town to bless them.

The "Resistance" is not and cannot become another "structure"--not now anyway. I don't even know why it calls itself "Resistance." This isn't some Galactic Empire that Luke and Han can bring down with one good, clean shot. It's . You're not "resisting" anything. You're getting to high ground, holding on tight, and praying you don't get swept away. You can shout for all it's worth and should--it lets people know you're still alive--but you ain't gonna be doing much else.

Fr. P is good enough to offer shelter to those priests in the US who need one. Be happy for that.

The other alternative, the way I see it, is to let go and join the ranks of the walking dead. I "support" Bp. W and the quote unquote Resistance because I'm alive and have a free hand to do so.

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #20 on:** May 29, 2013, 10:22:14 AM »

Quote from: Zzz

Bp. W is not the problem. He's not keeping anyone from speaking his mind. His recommendation that those who do speak out, who do see something wrong, take 3 months and "pray about it" is good advice: Fr. Hewko did it and anyone who knows him can testify to his resolve. I expect Fr. G will be the same when his 3 months are up.

The fact is a lot of priests in the SSPX and a lot of "trads" think Bp. W is crazy with too many wrong "opinions." What do you want him to do? Whatever following the "Resistance" has isn't going to get any bigger just because Bp. W decides to head a new org. Even among the quote unquote Resistance, I find a lot of "trads" with "opinions"--unstable men and women who want to be reassured that their faith is not failing them. One day they're ready to "fight" to the death, the next they're frustrated that the priest isn't coming to their town to bless them.

The "Resistance" is not and cannot become another "structure"--not now anyway. I don't even know why it calls itself "Resistance." This isn't some Galactic Empire that Luke and Han can bring down with one good, clean shot. It's . You're not "resisting" anything. You're getting to high ground, holding on tight, and praying you don't get swept away. You can shout for all it's worth and should--it lets people know you're still alive--but you ain't gonna be doing much else.

Fr. P is good enough to offer shelter to those priests in the US who need one. Be happy for that.

The other alternative, the way I see it, is to let go and join the ranks of the walking dead. I "support" Bp. W and the quote unquote Resistance because I'm alive and have a free hand to do so.

Zzz-

This was an interesting post.

I wish you would post more often.

Perhaps the difference in strategy between Fr. Pfeiffer and Bishop Williamson is derived from their contradictory temperments:

The cholerics and sanguines (like Fr. Pfeiffer) prefer taking the offensive.

The melancholics and phlegmatics (like Bishop Williamson) prefer taking a defensive posture.

What do you think?

Francisco · « **Reply #21 on:** May 29, 2013, 10:55:10 AM »

Quote from: Zzz

Bp. W is not the problem. He's not keeping anyone from speaking his mind. His recommendation that those who do speak out, who do see something wrong, take 3 months and "pray about it" is good advice: Fr. Hewko did it and anyone who knows him can testify to his resolve. I expect Fr. G will be the same when his 3 months are up.

The fact is a lot of priests in the SSPX and a lot of "trads" think Bp. W is crazy with too many wrong "opinions." What do you want him to do? Whatever following the "Resistance" has isn't going to get any bigger just because Bp. W decides to head a new org. Even among the quote unquote Resistance, I find a lot of "trads" with "opinions"--unstable men and women who want to be reassured that their faith is not failing them. One day they're ready to "fight" to the death, the next they're frustrated that the priest isn't coming to their town to bless them.

The "Resistance" is not and cannot become another "structure"--not now anyway. I don't even know why it calls itself "Resistance." This isn't some Galactic Empire that Luke and Han can bring down with one good, clean shot. It's . You're not "resisting" anything. You're getting to high ground, holding on tight, and praying you don't get swept away. You can shout for all it's worth and should--it lets people know you're still alive--but you ain't gonna be doing much else.

Fr. P is good enough to offer shelter to those priests in the US who need one. Be happy for that.

The other alternative, the way I see it, is to let go and join the ranks of the walking dead. I "support" Bp. W and the quote unquote Resistance because I'm alive and have a free hand to do so.

An interesting post. The problem is that Bp Fellay wants to join the Conciliar Church but is playing a game of bluff at the moment which seems to be working with priests and laity alike who dont want to accept reality.

Incredulous · « **Reply #22 on:** May 29, 2013, 01:12:15 PM »

Quote from: Zzz

The other alternative, the way I see it, is to let go and join the ranks of the walking dead.

I "support" Bp. W and the quote unquote Resistance because I'm alive and have a free hand to do so.

Incredulous · « **Reply #23 on:** May 29, 2013, 01:28:55 PM »

We've learned that Bishop Fellay is already in "too deep" with the Zionist, conciliarists and possibly the conciliar-freemason's club.

It seems we're in a waiting game with his neoSSPX and as planned, they have the resources to wait out any Resistance.

However, if providence be with us, another scandal will surface, or as we can surmise, Bishop Fellay's other shoe will drop.

In the meantime, we have to pray and work to keep a Traditional Holy Roman Catholic Resistance going. It is our duty to do so.

Elsa Zardini · « **Reply #24 on:** May 29, 2013, 03:19:35 PM »

Incredulous, what would I do without you to cheer up my day...We should be paying you a salary just to continue posting!

Incredulous · « **Reply #25 on:** May 29, 2013, 04:05:46 PM »

Quote from: Elsa Zardini

Incredulous, what would I do without you to cheer up my day...We should be paying you a salary just to continue posting!

Thank you for your kind comments Elsa!

But, somehow, I don't think Matthew agrees?

:wink:

Gimli · « **Reply #26 on:** May 29, 2013, 04:13:14 PM »

A couple of years ago this brave and honest priest visited Scandinavia. I took the time to have a talk with him, it was one of the best talks I have had. We walked through a green valley and had a good soul to soul talk, well at least for me. I asked him about everything between heaven and earth, about the faith, ethical dilemmas and questions in general about the faith and how a traditionalist should act in this godforsaken modern world. I was aware that Father Morgan had time to keep and their was a lot of people that wanted his attention but I felt so honored that he took his time with me. I was a newly fresh convert then, but also a little bit uncertain convert, and I still consider myself a novice and I will be that for a long time. The traditional faith has such a deep dimension and there is still so much to know. Father Morgan was such an gentleman. I only felt honesty and chivalry from his side. His manners and personality was so manly and selfcontrolled a man with no doubt and just real uncompromising faith. I felt like a roman legionaire in ancient times that got teaching and support from a Centurion or something.

He is the best priest I have ever met ( I have not met that many SSPX priest though). And I feel true happiness for those that can attend the masses his holds on regular basis. The hateful media and the brainwashed herd consider him αnтι-ѕємιтє, a leader of a rightwing-extremist cult and other yidi yada humbug but that is only because a stoic unscared catholic priest scares them.

I do not pray to God that I will meet him again, because that is up to me and I will visit him once more. Maybe he do no remember me or maybe he does, but it is not important. It made a great impact on me. Pride is a sin, I know, but I felt a combination of pride and humility that I had this soul to soul talk with him.

Some people have met Elvis or Madonna, so what? I had a walk and talk with Father Morgan!
:boxer:

Elsa Zardini · « **Reply #27 on:** May 29, 2013, 05:56:36 PM »

I see Gimli. But why that clickable? Doesn't go along very well with your nice humble post. How about this one

Neil Obstat · « **Reply #28 on:** May 29, 2013, 08:23:31 PM »

.

I find this recurring theme of +W "starting a new order" most interesting.

What manner of order would you expect him to start these days? Is he going
to be setting himself up as Pope first, and then start a new order?

Or, will he start one under a patriarch of a schismatic sect?

Or, would he just come out and proclaim himself patriarch first, and then
set up the "new order" under his new patriarchate?

It's got to be one of those, for the alternative of appealing to Rome for
approval of his "new order" would never pan out, in case you didn't think
that far ahead, that is.

Post

Quote from: SeanJohnson

Quote from: 1st Mansion Tenant
Quote from: SeanJohnson
Quote from: Telesphorus
The concessions of the doctrinal preamble..

Doctrinal Declaration, Tele, or AFD, but not "preamble" - we don't need
more confusion than we already have.

Quote

Quote
Quote
Quote
..are confirmed by the other things Bishop Fellay said.

For example, in the CNS interview in which he speaks of "limited liberty" in the Council, and that things that were condemned in the Council were not of the Council but of an interpretation.

The denials are pitiful.

..or, that 95% of the Council is acceptable, or, that there IS such a thing as
a "previous Magisterium" distinct from the "living Magisterium" of the Church,
or, that the Newmass and the typical editions of the Roman Missal and the
Sacramentary Rituals were "legitimately" promulgated, or, that the "new
formula for the Profession of Faith and the Oath of Fidelity for assuming a
charge exercised in the name of the Church, 1989," and the Society's promise
of adherence to and recognition of the New Code of Canon Law (which admits
reception of Communion by non-Catholics and changes the order of priority
in Marriage to an inversion of Catholic principles, among other heretical things)
apply to this DECLARATION of the Society. etc., etc., etc.

Quote

Quote
Quote from: S-J
Yep.

Fr. Morgan has fallen victim to [the truth of*] Bishop Williamson's observation that "Those who do not act the way they think, end up thinking the way they act."

Enough time spent in the same environment will eliminate even the silent resistance of others who would otherwise follow Bishop [Williamson] if he would start another order.

There you go again - "start another order" -- do you have any idea what
you're talking about or do you just enjoy hearing yourself talk?

When has +W said anything about "starting another order?"

Or is this merely your latest attempt at starting another "Internet rumour?"

*(If Fr. Morgan fell victim to +W's observation it would mean that +W was
watching him, and being watched, Fr. Morgan was thereby victimized.)

Quote

Quote
Quote
First anonymity, then silence, and finally complicity.

We might get 1-2 more priests (and no seminarians), but then it is all done.

With no seminarians to ordain, it will not be necessary for Bishop Williamson to offer to ordain any.

This is a very depressing projection for the future of the resistance, Sean. Have you thrown in the towel? :sad:

That will be the day!

I just talk to a lot of people and priests (see other thread).

And which "other thread" would that be, or which forum, or which sub-forum?

Quote

On the one hand, the time of grace is passing. On the other, they will not leave to become independents without hierarchy and community. Such was not their vocation. But neither was the religious life. Therefore, they will simply do the best they can with the hand they are dealt, if there is no religious order offering an alternative with a bishop. Fr. Morgan is a good example of this mindset, I suspect.

Please pass the aspirin -- and a beer.

Quote from: Matthew

Might I ask --

What priest DOES have a vocation to be an "independent"?

It is intrinsic to the priesthood itself to be a "helper to a bishop".

A "helper to a bishop" without a bishop to report to is a "monster" of sorts -- something severely unnatural.

I appreciate these priests' deep consideration of the matter, and personal reluctance to do anything rash, but they should recall that:

A) they already are doing something abnormal -- operating outside the normal Diocesan/Roman Church structures by working as Traditional priests.

B) Sometimes in a emergency, you do what you have to do -- regardless of how you "feel" about it, or how great it sounds.

Thanks, Matthew, that is, for the beer! :cheers:

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #29 on:** May 29, 2013, 09:17:31 PM »

Quote from: Neil Obstat

.

I find this recurring theme of +W "starting a new order" most interesting.

What manner of order would you expect him to start these days? Is he going
to be setting himself up as Pope first, and then start a new order?

Or, will he start one under a patriarch of a schismatic sect?

Or, would he just come out and proclaim himself patriarch first, and then
set up the "new order" under his new patriarchate?

It's got to be one of those, for the alternative of appealing to Rome for
approval of his "new order" would never pan out, in case you didn't think
that far ahead, that is.

Post
Quote from: SeanJohnson
Quote from: 1st Mansion Tenant
Quote from: SeanJohnson
Quote from: Telesphorus
The concessions of the doctrinal preamble..

Doctrinal Declaration, Tele, or AFD, but not "preamble" - we don't need
more confusion than we already have.

Quote
Quote
Quote
Quote
..are confirmed by the other things Bishop Fellay said.

For example, in the CNS interview in which he speaks of "limited liberty" in the Council, and that things that were condemned in the Council were not of the Council but of an interpretation.

The denials are pitiful.

..or, that 95% of the Council is acceptable, or, that there IS such a thing as
a "previous Magisterium" distinct from the "living Magisterium" of the Church,
or, that the Newmass and the typical editions of the Roman Missal and the
Sacramentary Rituals were "legitimately" promulgated, or, that the "new
formula for the Profession of Faith and the Oath of Fidelity for assuming a
charge exercised in the name of the Church, 1989," and the Society's promise
of adherence to and recognition of the New Code of Canon Law (which admits
reception of Communion by non-Catholics and changes the order of priority
in Marriage to an inversion of Catholic principles, among other heretical things)
apply to this DECLARATION of the Society. etc., etc., etc.

Quote
Quote
Quote from: S-J
Yep.

Fr. Morgan has fallen victim to [the truth of*] Bishop Williamson's observation that "Those who do not act the way they think, end up thinking the way they act."

Enough time spent in the same environment will eliminate even the silent resistance of others who would otherwise follow Bishop [Williamson] if he would start another order.

There you go again - "start another order" -- do you have any idea what
you're talking about or do you just enjoy hearing yourself talk?

When has +W said anything about "starting another order?"

Or is this merely your latest attempt at starting another "Internet rumour?"

*(If Fr. Morgan fell victim to +W's observation it would mean that +W was
watching him, and being watched, Fr. Morgan was thereby victimized.)

Quote
Quote
Quote
First anonymity, then silence, and finally complicity.

We might get 1-2 more priests (and no seminarians), but then it is all done.

With no seminarians to ordain, it will not be necessary for Bishop Williamson to offer to ordain any.

This is a very depressing projection for the future of the resistance, Sean. Have you thrown in the towel? :sad:

That will be the day!

I just talk to a lot of people and priests (see other thread).

And which "other thread" would that be, or which forum, or which sub-forum?

Quote
On the one hand, the time of grace is passing. On the other, they will not leave to become independents without hierarchy and community. Such was not their vocation. But neither was the religious life. Therefore, they will simply do the best they can with the hand they are dealt, if there is no religious order offering an alternative with a bishop. Fr. Morgan is a good example of this mindset, I suspect.

Please pass the aspirin -- and a beer.

Quote from: Matthew
Might I ask --

What priest DOES have a vocation to be an "independent"?

It is intrinsic to the priesthood itself to be a "helper to a bishop".

A "helper to a bishop" without a bishop to report to is a "monster" of sorts -- something severely unnatural.

I appreciate these priests' deep consideration of the matter, and personal reluctance to do anything rash, but they should recall that:

A) they already are doing something abnormal -- operating outside the normal Diocesan/Roman Church structures by working as Traditional priests.

B) Sometimes in a emergency, you do what you have to do -- regardless of how you "feel" about it, or how great it sounds.

Thanks, Matthew, that is, for the beer! :cheers:

Hey Neil-

He should start a new order.