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Author Topic: ST. MARY'S MODESTY  (Read 7618 times)

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Offline Last Tradhican

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Re: ST. MARY'S MODESTY
« Reply #45 on: August 06, 2019, 10:18:24 AM »
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  • Where we go to Mass, it is posted in Church bulletin about dressing modestly for both men and women.  Also, there is a sign about dress code at entrance of church.    
    All chapels have the same sign. It apparently means nothing, just like they all have a picture of Bergolio. 
    The Vatican II church - Assisting Souls to Hell Since 1962

    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. Mat 24:24


    Offline MMagdala

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    Re: ST. MARY'S MODESTY
    « Reply #46 on: August 06, 2019, 11:45:17 AM »
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  • There has to be a much more methodical and deliberate way of handling this, top-down.  It's possible to do this when there's an actual established community (parish) for a trad order and not just a travel-to Mass, but I think St. Mary's is a community and not just a location.

    Bulletins and/or other published material in the vestibule have to state that regular attendees are assumed to be part of the community and thus will be approached by others when standards are not met.  Those standards have to be detailed (which I'm sure they are at St. Mary's), but it has to be announced both in writing and from the pulpit that the standards will be enforced.  The enforcement will be that if compliance does not result from one warning, the person or persons will be asked to stay away until such time as they can meet the standards.

    One of the first things that has to be done is registering contact information with the trad order celebrating the Mass.  This is especially important for families, because parents also need to be held accountable for behavior and dress of teens.  When I recently registered for an SSPX women's retreat (I ended up being too squeezed in my schedule to be able to go), it was done in a very orderly way.  First I had to call them and give current parish and other relevant information to the administrator of the retreat.  This made me feel very good, actually, because the retreat hosts have every right to that information, and I was comforted that they were so thorough.  

    Next, I received in the mail two pages of details about expected behavior and dress on the retreat -- exactly what is required of women and what would not be accepted.  (There might have even been something in there about being asked to leave during the retreat if those standards were violated; I don't have the letter handy.) If I were a person inclined to ignore or rebel against regulations, the mailer in itself would deter me from going, because it was clear that I would have stood out and drawn negative and disciplinary attention to myself.  The message was:  We mean business, and you've been warned.

    Second, group pressure -- in a parish situation -- can be a powerful thing.  Again, community can make a difference if the community as a whole supports female modesty.  Thus, when my sweater accidentally slips a little bit off my shoulder (and I am wearing cap sleeves underneath), one of the women at the reception, or even during Mass if I'm sitting in a pew, will gently fix my sweater.  If instead it's my seminarian friend, he will respectfully say, "Careful of your shirt."  I think this is all really sweet.  It shows a lot of true charity and respect.  The point is, that it shows that the majority of the community supports the same modesty goals as the priests do.

    More on group pressure: Someone at our church recently, with permission, set out flyers in the vestibule about the necessity of women modeling themselves after Our Lady's modesty.  There were specifics in there about how pants are men's dress.  Some pant-wearing women objected.  (Surprise, surprise)  Perhaps it's just a coincidence that two days ago, rather than the usual about 8 women wearing pants, not a single woman attending wore pants to Mass.  And some of the chronic pant-attired women did not show up at the usual Masses they attend.  And I don't care, because Tradition is not just about the Mass.


    Offline forlorn

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    Re: ST. MARY'S MODESTY
    « Reply #47 on: August 06, 2019, 12:09:24 PM »
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  • There has to be a much more methodical and deliberate way of handling this, top-down.  It's possible to do this when there's an actual established community (parish) for a trad order and not just a travel-to Mass, but I think St. Mary's is a community and not just a location.
    Yeah, this is a big issue. I don't know about the US, but in many countries like my own, parishes were very important and definitely communities. They formed a strong part of a person's identity, and the people you saw at mass were the same people you know from your school, club, neighbourhood, etc. So you knew most people there very well and you'd be careful not to do anything that could embarrass you or have bad word spread around about you, so there was a big social pressure for modesty and looking respectable at mass. But now for many Trads you'll often go to mass an hour from where you live or work and you might have absolutely nothing to do with the other families besides some church activities, and since most Trads live in places that are majority non-Catholic or at least non-Trad you won't be seeing your neighbours or co-workers at mass. So there's much less social pressure to conform. 

    Online Stubborn

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    Re: ST. MARY'S MODESTY
    « Reply #48 on: August 07, 2019, 06:37:55 AM »
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  • Sounds like the sermons at St. Mary's needs to come out and tell it like it is. A short snip from one of Fr. Wathen's sermons on the subject for both men and women.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: ST. MARY'S MODESTY
    « Reply #49 on: August 07, 2019, 09:02:34 AM »
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  • Sounds like the sermons at St. Mary's needs to come out and tell it like it is. A short snip from one of Fr. Wathen's sermons on the subject for both men and women.

    I've heard priest give sermons like this ... to little effect.  It's as if there needs to be some "enforcement".


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: ST. MARY'S MODESTY
    « Reply #50 on: August 07, 2019, 09:03:06 AM »
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  • All chapels have the same sign. It apparently means nothing, just like they all have a picture of Bergolio.

    :laugh1: (for the Bergoglio part).

    Online Stubborn

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    Re: ST. MARY'S MODESTY
    « Reply #51 on: August 07, 2019, 09:23:37 AM »
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  • I've heard priest give sermons like this ... to little effect.  It's as if there needs to be some "enforcement".
    A few years ago Fr. Boyle (SSPX) gave some good sermons on modesty regularly for a while, not so blunt as the one I posted, but it worked, at least at my chapel. Still is working for the most part. It's very easy to tell when a NOer comes in for the first time, they stand out like a lady in a short skirt at a trad chapel lol, but they've been pretty good about figuring it out by the second or third time.
    "But Peter and the apostles answering, said: We ought to obey God, rather than men." - Acts 5:29

    The Highest Principle in the Church: "We are first of all under obedience to God, and only then under obedience to man" - Fr. Hesse

    Offline homeschoolmom

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    Re: ST. MARY'S MODESTY
    « Reply #52 on: August 07, 2019, 01:47:26 PM »
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  • It does make a difference.

    My apology above was sincere at first because I felt bad for lumping in the priests who have given up with the priests who don't care. But then as I wrote more about those who have given up (I ended up deleting it before posting because I didn't want to ramble) I realized that maybe I actually resent them a little bit. The truth is there are still women and girls who want to hear it, who need to hear it and who would co-operate with grace if given the chance. Why are they being given up on too? It doesn't matter if the possible initial reaction is anger. Sometimes things just need a little time to sink in. Let those who won't listen go their way. But speak to those who will! There are still parents who are fighting and feeling helpless as the skirts get shorter and the heels higher with every generation. They need but are not getting the support of the priests from the pulpit.

    In several parishes I have visited you see a marked difference between the generations who got these sermons and those who haven't. The priests may feel like the sermons are useless but if that were true the differences would not be so visible. They just need to worry less about those who won't listen and care more for those who will. Even if it's a seed that is planted in the soul that won't grow until later in life, and maybe that priest never sees it in this life, it still makes all the difference.


    Offline Alexandria

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    Re: ST. MARY'S MODESTY
    « Reply #53 on: August 07, 2019, 03:22:38 PM »
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  • I've watched things nosedive in every traditional chapel I've frequented the last 30 years.  The old timers who have died or who are dying out knew/know why they were there.  The younger generation is all about compromise - one foot in one world and one in the other.  With phone in hand and slit up back of skirt and makeup caked on their faces, they look like no different than they're novus ordo counterparts.

    I've heard every silly excuse in the book for wearing pants too.

    I can't remember the last time I heard a good sermon in a traditional chapel on modesty.

    Offline Syracuse

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    Re: ST. MARY'S MODESTY
    « Reply #54 on: August 07, 2019, 03:27:36 PM »
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  • Sacrilege shouldn't be allowed in the Mass. Immodest dress before the holy sanctuary is sacrilege and an occasion of sin to everyone there.

    Those who allow immodesty and too cowardly to enforce the dress code are lukewarm. WE know what Jesus Christ will do to the lukewarm.
    "I'm running things now, and I'll do everything it takes to destroy the enemies of God. Now, you join me, and I promise you, you'll never have to worry about whether you're doing the right thing or the wrong thing, because we will do the only thing."
    ~ Joseph Croix de Fer

    Offline Alexandria

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    Re: ST. MARY'S MODESTY
    « Reply #55 on: August 07, 2019, 03:27:44 PM »
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  • I hate to say what some of the young girls (in their 20's and 30's) look like.  They must be an occasion of sin to the young men there.

    Doesn't any priest ever preach about being a near occasion of sin to others anymore?

    I remember in the early 90's getting a sermon from an SSPX stressing that being a traditional Catholic wasn't just about the Mass.  It was more.  Much more.

    Traditionals, from what I can see in my area, are far from being the salt of the earth.  


    Offline Alexandria

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    Re: ST. MARY'S MODESTY
    « Reply #56 on: August 07, 2019, 03:29:48 PM »
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  • As I read through the posts, these topics passed through my mind:

    1) Worldliness

    2) Strident women

    3) Makeup, pants, and skirts threads (women resisting traditional norms, and men defending them in this)

    4) They hated +BW for this

    5) “SSPX Hotties” thread from a couple years ago

    6) SSPX fixated on numbers doesn’t risk unpopular sermons

    7) Too many men of weak will not assuming leadership at home

    8) Coincides with ralliement

    9) CCCC posts on encroaching worldliness and pics

    10) Pic from a couple years ago of woman next to +BF in very short skirt for consecration of bells eliciting no protest

    11) Mercedes Benz seminarians

    12) SSPX news babes

    13) District office women all in pants
    What are "Mercedes Benz seminarians"?

    Offline Alexandria

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    Re: ST. MARY'S MODESTY
    « Reply #57 on: August 07, 2019, 03:31:30 PM »
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  • Offline Alexandria

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    Re: ST. MARY'S MODESTY
    « Reply #58 on: August 07, 2019, 03:35:19 PM »
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  • Oh-oh:

    Makeup, skirts, or pants came up!

    There are now 17 members online like a flash!

    13 of them will be feminist zealots, or their weak-willed male enablers!

    The thread is now destined for 10,000 clicks.

    :popcorn:
    I usually stay out of these just because of the feminist zealots who suddenly pop in with their usual talking points.

    Offline Alexandria

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    Re: ST. MARY'S MODESTY
    « Reply #59 on: August 07, 2019, 03:37:46 PM »
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  • Money speaks loudly.

    Since women control the purse in many homes, if a priest were to say something humiliating about the wife and/or her children, the donation would be significantly down the following week.

    Since women tend to gossip, the entire parish tithes might be significantly less the following weeks.

    Menzingen knows this and wants to buy more castles for the kiddies.

    Silence is golden and brings in the gold.

    I say this from experience. My son told me that he did not like the way the girls and women dressed so immodestly, so I spoke with the priest. He told me to be silent and that if I said anything it would spark a parish revolt and that half the parish would cease contributing and attending. Basically, I was told to go elsewhere.

    All we can do is pray and try to be a good example, but then when I wear a long skirt, long sleeved blouse, and scarf, they accuse me of being a hypocrite and "holier than Thou." I guess I am disturbing their conscience just like the wife of Herold was disturbed by the sayings of St. John the Baptist.
    You just keep doing what you're doing.  Never mind what they accuse you of being or say about you.