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Is a Resistance priest who refuses to mention St. Joseph in the Canon of the Mass a faithful son of Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre?

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Author Topic: St. Joseph in the Canon of the Mass  (Read 1725 times)

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Online Catholic Knight

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St. Joseph in the Canon of the Mass
« on: November 09, 2025, 04:19:24 PM »
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  • Background

    Starting in 1981, a clerical candidate of the SSPX had to sign the attached Declaration of Fidelity before he was ordained to the subdiaconate.  The second last paragraph requires acceptance of the reforms of Pope John XXIII.

    Offline WorldsAway

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    Re: St. Joseph in the Canon of the Mass
    « Reply #1 on: November 09, 2025, 04:27:17 PM »
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  • I was thinking the other day, is there any relation between St. Joseph having died under the Old Law and him not traditionally being included in the Canon?
    John 15:19  If you had been of the world, the world would love its own: but because you are not of the world, but I have chosen you out of the world, therefore the world hateth you.


    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: St. Joseph in the Canon of the Mass
    « Reply #2 on: November 09, 2025, 04:29:07 PM »
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  • In times of confusion, it seems unwise to insist on such details. Even before 2012, the SSPX lost many good priests because of this kind of thing.

    Offline Shrewd Operator

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    Re: St. Joseph in the Canon of the Mass
    « Reply #3 on: November 09, 2025, 04:54:37 PM »
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  • I thought the problem with St. Joseph being in the Canon was that he was not a roman martyr. The main reason the others were there was because they were roman martyrs who served as the foundation of the roman rite.
    Besides that, since he wasn't there to begin with: it's not a good idea to change the canon; even to add him, since that opens the door to more changes.

    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: St. Joseph in the Canon of the Mass
    « Reply #4 on: Yesterday at 08:26:48 AM »
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  • The original 62 missal, as OFFICIALLY approved by Pius XII (Pope John 23 only finished what Pius XII started), does not have St Joseph in the canon.  St Joseph was only added in a "revision" of the missal, which was confirmed by a liturgical commission.  So the addition of St Joseph is not part of the actual, papal-approved, original 62 missal.


    Online Catholic Knight

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    Re: St. Joseph in the Canon of the Mass
    « Reply #5 on: Yesterday at 09:37:10 AM »
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  • The original 62 missal, as OFFICIALLY approved by Pius XII (Pope John 23 only finished what Pius XII started), does not have St Joseph in the canon.  St Joseph was only added in a "revision" of the missal, which was confirmed by a liturgical commission.  So the addition of St Joseph is not part of the actual, papal-approved, original 62 missal.

    Even if what you are saying is true, the name of St. Joseph in the Canon was already there in 1981 when referring to the 1962 Missal.

    Offline moneil

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    Re: St. Joseph in the Canon of the Mass
    « Reply #6 on: Yesterday at 10:04:15 AM »
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  • My copy of "The Mass; A Study of the Roman Liturgy" by Father Adrian Fortescue, published in 1914 is loaned out so I can't offer more precise detail.  However, new editions of the Roman Missal issued since that of Pope St. Pius V in 1570 are:
    Pope Clement VIII in 1604,
    Pope Urban VIII in 1634,
    Pope Leo XIII in 1884,
    Pope Benedict XV in 1920,
    Pope John XXIII in 1962,

    Pope Pius XII issued no new typical edition of the Roman Missal but after 1955 had his revised Holy Week Liturgy printed in the missal of Pope Benedict XV.  In addition to changes in when the Mass could be celebrated (except for the Mass at Midnight of Christmas a Mass usually could only be celebrated between dawn and noon) and changes to the Eucharistic fast he was working on simplification of the rubrics of the Mass when he died.  These were implemented by Pope John XXIII in 1961.  In 1962 Pope John XXIII promulgated a new typical edition of the Roman Missal incorporating Pope Pius XII's Holy Week liturgy and including the name of St. Joseph into the Canon. 

    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: St. Joseph in the Canon of the Mass
    « Reply #7 on: Yesterday at 10:12:54 AM »
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  • Even if what you are saying is true, the name of St. Joseph in the Canon was already there in 1981 when referring to the 1962 Missal.
    The original edition of the 1962 edition does NOT have St Joseph in the canon.  Whatever missal you're referring to, is not the original edition.


    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: St. Joseph in the Canon of the Mass
    « Reply #8 on: Yesterday at 10:15:58 AM »
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  • In 1962 Pope John XXIII promulgated a new typical edition of the Roman Missal incorporating Pope Pius XII's Holy Week liturgy and including the name of St. Joseph into the Canon.
    The original edition of the 62 missal does not contain St Joseph.  This was added later, in subsequent "revisions" (which were not from Pius XII but from a liturgical commission).

    Pius XII (and the ACTUAL 62 missal) did not add St Joseph to the canon.

    The Modernists started changing the 62 missal within MONTHS of the original edition being printed.  There are 2-3 "revisions" alone in the first 2 years.  It was chaos from the start, from John23.

    Offline moneil

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    Re: St. Joseph in the Canon of the Mass
    « Reply #9 on: Yesterday at 11:10:54 PM »
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  • The 1962 typical edition of the Roman Missal was promulgated by Pope John XXIII on June 23, 1962, the last of what might be referred to as the Tridentine missals, beginning with the missal promulgated by Pope St. Pius V following the Council of Trent.

    Pope St. Pius V in 1570,
    Pope Clement VIII in 1604,
    Pope Urban VIII in 1634,
    Pope Leo XIII in 1884,
    Pope Benedict XV in 1920,
    Pope John XXIII in 1962.

    You may find the ORIGIONAL, ACTUAL, and ONLY edition of the 1962 Roman Missal here:
    https://media.musicasacra.com/pdf/missale62.pdf

    As I had stated, and is well docuмented, Pope Pius did not issue a new edition of the Roman Missal, he made changes to the rubrics of the 1920 Missal of Pope Benedict XV and inserted a revised liturgy for Palm Sunday, Holy Thursday, Good Friday, and Holy Saturday, principally involving the times these liturgies could be observed, into that Missal. He also allowed evening Masses (addressing the pastoral situation of workers in the industrial age when many had to work on Sunday mornings) and reduced the rigor of the fast before receiving Holy Communion. He did not insert the name of St. Joseph into the Communicantes of the Canon of the Mass, no one has said that he did. He was reposed in the Lord three years four months when the ACTUAL 1962 Missal was promulgated, and it does include the name of St. Joseph in the Communicantes of the Canon of the Mass, that is irrefutable. There was no edition of the "1962 Roman Missal" before June 23, 1962.



    Offline Philip

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    Re: St. Joseph in the Canon of the Mass
    « Reply #10 on: Today at 06:57:57 AM »
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  • The decree from the SCR can be found in the Acta, viewable on the Vatican website:

    https://www.vatican.va/archive/aas/docuмents/AAS-54-1962-ocr.pdf

    It is on p.873 with the opening words Novis hisce temporibus, dated 13th November 1962. It orders the name of St Joseph to be inserted in the communicantes from 8th December that year.


    Online Pax Vobis

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    Re: St. Joseph in the Canon of the Mass
    « Reply #11 on: Today at 08:08:58 AM »
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  • Let me simply this for you:

    Quote
    The 1962 typical edition of the Roman Missal was promulgated by Pope John XXIII on June 23, 1962
    Correct.  This is the ORIGINAL edition.  It did NOT include St Joseph.

    I've talked to people who print it.  It's common knowledge.


    Quote
    It is on p.873 with the opening words Novis hisce temporibus, dated 13th November 1962.
    Yes, this is the SECOND, REVISED edition, which included St Joseph.

    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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    • γνῶθι σεαυτόν - temet nosce
    Re: St. Joseph in the Canon of the Mass
    « Reply #12 on: Today at 09:55:22 AM »
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  • Whilst Msgr. Lefebvre was a venerable leader of the crusade for Tradition, he is not nor could be the measure by which all traditional Catholicism is to be measured.

    Avoid cults of personality wherever these may be found.
    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
    Nicolás Gómez Dávila

    Offline Everlast22

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    Re: St. Joseph in the Canon of the Mass
    « Reply #13 on: Today at 10:12:01 AM »
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  • At this point, we need to be thankful we have valid orders and sacraments and traditional Catholicism. Many of these priests and bishops were/are jsut flat out wrong about a lot of things. Stick you Dogmas of the Church and work your way down. Stop worrying about the ins/outs of these very human men and their unfortunate circuмstances. Imagine the pain of knowing what to do during the crossing over of Vatican 2 as a bishop/priest. 

    There were LOTS of "bad" cardinals/bishops throughout the history of the Church who, even in their alleged wickedness carried out God's will, knowingly or unknowingly. 

    This unprecedented time of great apostasy in the Church is just that. unprecedented. 

    Offline moneil

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    Re: St. Joseph in the Canon of the Mass
    « Reply #14 on: Today at 11:47:31 AM »
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  • From Reply #8:


    Quote
    The original edition of the 62 missal does not contain St Joseph. This was added later, in subsequent "revisions" (which were not from Pius XII but from a liturgical commission).

    Pius XII (and the ACTUAL 62 missal) did not add St Joseph to the canon.

    The way these two paragraphs are worded might give the impression that Pope Pius XII was involved with "the ACTUAL 62 missal" as someone has called it, which would be unusual (impossible actually), as Pope Pius XII reposed in the Lord on October 9, 1958 and the 1962 missal was promulgated by Pope John XXIII on 23 June, 1962, sometime afterwards.

    The link in Reply #10 does not work. I was able to find this article from Romanitas Press
    https://www.romanitaspress.com/particular-curiosity-of-1962-missal

    It appears that the last rubrical revisions of the new (first and original) 1962 Missal were completed by June 1962, when it was promulgated, and the last textual change, the addition of the name of St. Joseph to the Communicantes, was in November of the SAME Year, but the 1962 Missal (first and original) WAS NOT released for printing until May of 1963. I have consulted several online / downloadable pdf versions of the 1962 Missal, verifying from the title page or introductory pages that each was the ACTUAL and OFFICIAL 1962 Missal, and every single one had the name of St. Joseph in the Communicantes.

    I can find NO information that there has ever been more than ONE edition of the typical edition of the 1962 Roman Missal and every source shows that it included the name of St. Joseph to the Communicantes.  Those who are arguing otherwise have provided NO citations to substantiate their view.  A rational person must conclude that there never was an in-print typical edition of the 1962 Roman Missal which did not have the name of St. Joseph in the Communicantes.  If there are those who disagree with this they need to provide citations from verifiable and legitimate sources.

    I am not arguing for or against the 1962 Roman Missal (I personally use the missal I've had since my adolescent years, published in 1960), nor the appropriateness of adding St. Joseph, but facts are fact and the truth matters.