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Author Topic: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???  (Read 31613 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

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Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
« Reply #75 on: April 19, 2023, 10:33:52 PM »
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  • though the betrayal of Campos was tragic.

    Why do you say that?  It’s the same betrayal as the SSPX, only 10 years prior, and for the exact same reasons (just as Le Barroux was 10 years before that)?
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Mr G

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #76 on: April 20, 2023, 08:13:49 AM »
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  • BUMP.

    I just figured it out, in light of the Huonder consecration of holy oils: The SSPX is preparing the terrain for the acceptance of conciliar-approved and/or conciliar-consecrated bishops.

    If the faithful accept the validity of the holy oils, they will accept the validity of a bishop.

    "+Lefebvre is victoriuos!" they will declare.
    They will also declare "This is the result of the Pope's consecration of Russia and the start of the Period of Peace and restoration of the Church."


    From Non Possmus: Non Possumus: IMPORTANT DEVELOPMENTS ARE COMING IN THE NEO-FSSPX (nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.com)

    1. Vitus Huoder consecrates (?) the oil at the German seminar of the SSPX.
    2. This week, Fr. Pagliarani gave this instruction to the priests of the SSPX: "Begin to prepare the faithful for eventual episcopal consecrations" (Non Possumus cannot reveal the source of this information, but it is certain).
    3. The SSPX makes a video about Vitus Huonder, the trailer of which can be seen below. 

    (See link for video, it is the same one that is already shown on CathInfo)


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #77 on: April 20, 2023, 09:59:57 AM »
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  • "Die grosse Wunde"

    I see where we got the word "wound" from -- obviously the German.
    And as you'd expect, we also have a higher-end word from the Latin "vulnera" 
    If someone is able to be wounded, they're "vulnerable".
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    Offline Cornelius935

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #78 on: April 20, 2023, 02:01:10 PM »
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  • They will also declare "This is the result of the Pope's consecration of Russia and the start of the Period of Peace and restoration of the Church."
    Yes, the SSPX always appeals to false piety and other false virtues (especially charity and prudence).

    I'm willing to bet that they will first call for a worldwide novena / rosary crusade, then proceed to announce the consecration after the tallies. What the faithful will not know or believe is that Menzingen has / will have already settled a deal with Rome about the new bishops, before they even called for the novenas / rosaries.

    Then, the consecrations will either be openly approved by Rome, or Rome will refrain from condemning it, perhaps by being ambiguous, perhaps by staying absolutely silent about it (the clerical diplomats from Rome AND Menzingen have no shortage of tricks up their sleeves). Regardless, Huonder's attendance / participation at the consecration will let us know that it is in fact approved by Rome. The new bishops will not work independently of Rome, they will be recognized and they will maintain communication with the Roman offices, they will be prelates of Francis openly or “in pectore”.

    Menzingen will then stage a big show of fake thanksgiving to Heaven and to the faithful for their 15 million-or-so rosaries, that (i) they now have new bishops, and that (ii) the consecrations were approved / not condemned by Rome.

    Needless to say, I think we can rule out the possibility that the SSPX will consecrate new bishops against Rome's wishes in 2023. Although, like Fr. Chazal said, it would be the greatest blow they can deal to their traditional Catholic critics.

    Offline Geremia

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    La FSSPX hace un video sobre Vitus Huonder,
    « Reply #79 on: April 20, 2023, 07:27:09 PM »
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #80 on: April 20, 2023, 07:50:31 PM »
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  • Real "preparation of the faithful" would be to have Mr. Huonder perform some "ordinations".  Of course, SSPX have been doing this indirectly for years by allowing NO presbyters who haven't been conditionally ordained to operate in SSPX chapels.

    Offline User2022

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #81 on: April 21, 2023, 12:03:11 AM »
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  • Canon212 is reporting this from Gloriatv.
    https://www.gloria.tv/post/9P9jsw3um3UK6WfY68yema1QU

    Offline trento

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #82 on: April 21, 2023, 04:33:32 AM »
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  • NOTE from Non Possumus:

    Non Possumus: CONSECRATION OF NEW BISHOPS IN THE NEO-SSPX (nonpossumus-vcr.blogspot.com)

    A reliable source informs us that the Neo-SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year.

    If these consecrations are carried out with the permission of liberal, modernist and apostate Rome, or if the new bishops belong to the accordist side; the Fraternity will take a great step towards the abyss.

    So it seems Bishop Williamson made a similar claim back in 2019.

    https://novusordowatch.org/2019/03/williamson-two-new-sspx-bishops/


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #83 on: April 21, 2023, 05:44:00 AM »
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  • So it seems Bishop Williamson made a similar claim back in 2019.

    https://novusordowatch.org/2019/03/williamson-two-new-sspx-bishops/

    The consecrations will be announced in May, performed in June, and take place in Zaitzkofen (where Huonder will no doubt be involved).

    PS to Trento:  Can you explain how Rome can approve bishops for a community allegedly not in “full communion” with the Catholic Church?
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #84 on: April 21, 2023, 05:56:13 AM »
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  • I had heard this news privately, and began formulating an outline in preparation for an article/analysis, but with too many projects on my desk, abandoned it as just another distraction.  Nevertheless, here are some ideas I would have developed (however, as CI does not allow numbers and/or bulletpoints, the formatting is very jumbled):


    • The SSPX will market the consecrations as the final realization of +Lefebvre's battle (i.e., "He always wanted a bishop to continue Tradition, and now we finally have Rome giving them to us.").
    • But the problems with this ploy are numerous:

      • Once +Lefebvre realized the Romans were negotiating in bad faith, he considered it necessary to consecrate bishops independent of them.
      • He further stated that we must remain separated from this conciliar Church until they come back to the faith (Spiritual Journey).
      • These two aforementioned observations should reasonably pre-empt the SSPX’s anticipated rebuttal that the 2023 consecrations are the fulfillment of +Lefebvre's goal (and secondarily, the anticipated claim that Rome is no longer poorly disposed toward Tradition).
      • But such idiocy must necessarily pass over in silence the hostile actions of BXVI (whom +Ganswein said was always trying to lure the faithful and clergy away from +Lefebvre, and who intended to create a hybrid rite in order to reorient trads toward the conciliar reforms, and also use the hermeneutic of continuity to reorient them toward conciliar doctrine), and of Francis’ recent legislation, who's blatant hostility requires no explanation.
    • The question then becomes, “What can we make of bishops consecrated by a Rome more hostile to Tradition than ever?

      • Obviously, the candidates chosen for consecration will be unknown liberals (they cannot be known liberals, because this would open the operation up to criticism, and expose the Roman strategy).  Nor could such candidates be stalwart traditionalists (if any are still to be found within the SSPX ranks), since this would obviously be contrary to anti-traditionalist Rome’s agenda to dilute, then capture. Tradition.
    • Supposing the aforementioned observations were accurate, would the consecration of bishops represent a win or a loss for Tradition and the recovery of the Church?

      • +Lefebvre famously said that since the Society has everything to lose and nothing to gain, every compromise is a loss.
      • I wrote a book detailing over 100 of these compromises, changes, and contradictions, intended by the SSPX to garner goodwill from modernist Rome (the most conspicuous of which is the relinquishing of combativeness against modernism, instead preferring to collaborate rather than fight it, and naively thinking it can co-exist without qualitative decline and slowly sliding into modernism themselves…despite the compromises just alluded to, which prove the opposite).
    • The final conclusion, therefore, which any prudent traditionalist would have to arrive at, is that the consecration of modernist-approved bishops will materially continue to extend the temporal existence of the SSPX, but only at the expense of cementing and solidifying its conciliar trajectory, which as mentioned necessitates silence in the face of conciliar and Roman errors, and the continued qualitative dilution of its own doctrinal, moral, and liturgical positions.
    • Fr. Cottier (later made a Cardinal after his conquest of Campos) once advised with the psychological shrewdness of the devil, "We must be patient...what is important is that there no longer be rejection in their hearts...gradually, we must expect further steps, such as concelebration..."

      If +Fellay famously said the Society agreed with 95% of Vatican II, and the Society no longer combats the modernist errors of Rome with the same vigor of yesteryear, its a pretty good indication that "rejection (of conciliarism) is no longer in their hearts." 

      The salt has lost its savor...


    This must not be lost sight of^^^
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #85 on: April 21, 2023, 06:10:47 AM »
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  • The consecrations will be announced in May, performed in June, and take place in Zaitzkofen (where Huonder will no doubt be involved).

    PS to Trento:  Can you explain how Rome can approve bishops for a community allegedly not in “full communion” with the Catholic Church?

    There's no need for SSPX to "condition" the faithful about +?Huonder because while he'll likely be a co-consecrator, at least one or two of the valid SSPX bishops will also be involved.  So I'm not buying the connection between Huonder, the holy oils, and a consecration.  I'd be more concerned about Mr. Huonder simulating the ordination of priests and even performing Confirmations (since he was also "ordained" in the New Rite and therefore even doubtfully a priest, much less a bishop).

    SSPX have long been foisting dubiously-ordained NO presbyters on the Traditional faithful.


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #86 on: April 21, 2023, 06:15:20 AM »
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  • There's no need for SSPX to "condition" the faithful about +?Huonder because while he'll likely be a co-consecrator, at least one or two of the valid SSPX bishops will also be involved.  So I'm not buying the connection between Huonder, the holy oils, and a consecration.  I'd be more concerned about Mr. Huonder simulating the ordination of priests and even performing Confirmations (since he was also "ordained" in the New Rite and therefore even doubtfully a priest, much less a bishop).

    SSPX have long been foisting dubiously-ordained NO presbyters on the Traditional faithful.

    Do you have a response to the question posed to Trento?
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #87 on: April 21, 2023, 06:18:44 AM »
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  • Do you have a response to the question posed to Trento?

    It's not realated to my post at all, but Bergoglio could approve based on his great mercifulness, just as he's given jurisdiction for Confessions for the group, saying that he's just being all so merciful and making a concession.

    But your question goes against your Huonder narrative even more.  Would Huonder even participate in a consecration that isn't approved by Rome?  I would doubt it.

    I just don't buy that the holy oils consecration was some kind of preparation of having Huonder consecrate bishops.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #88 on: April 21, 2023, 06:21:05 AM »
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  • It's not realated to my post at all, but Bergoglio could approve based on his great mercifulness, just as he's given jurisdiction for Confessions for the group, saying that he's just being all so merciful and making a concession.

    But your question goes against your Huonder narrative even more.  Would Huonder even participate in a consecration that isn't approved by Rome?  I would doubt it.

    I just don't buy that the holy oils consecration was some kind of preparation of having Huonder consecrate bishops.

    Who's arguing the consecrations won't be approved by Rome?

    That they ARE approved by Rome is part of the problem.

    The question is: How can Francis approves bishops for a non-Catholic community (which, if they really were non-catholic, would could be considered a schismatic act).

    Can Francis approve bishops for the Old Catholics?  for the Nestorians?
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX will consecrate three bishops in June of this year ???
    « Reply #89 on: April 21, 2023, 06:43:52 AM »
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  • Who's arguing the consecrations won't be approved by Rome?

    Isn't that the question you posed to Trento that you wanted me to answer?
    Quote
    Can you explain how Rome can approve bishops for a community allegedly not in “full communion” with the Catholic Church?

    So I answered the question becaused you aske me to.

    What kind of game is this?  You challenged me to answer a question, which I did, and then get called out for answering it?