Author Topic: SSPX UK,FR,SP. bishops dont agree the deal. UK bishop said to me. (Read 22019 times)

John Grace · « **Reply #15 on:** May 11, 2012, 10:52:20 AM »

Quote from: bernadette

Quote from: finegan
Do the auxiliary bishops have the courage and energy to undertake the massive task of rebuilding the SSPX from the ground up? Who will pay for new chapel buildings, travel and living expenses, etc.? How many of the faithful will support this effort with their pocketbook and physical labor? I am not optimistic regarding the latter. Most of the parishioners at my SSPX Mass center seem content with a nice liturgy and the social aspects of chapel life. I don't hear anyone discussing the impending agreement and its implications for our parish. It's almost like there's a "don't ask, don't tell" policy among the resident priests and faithful.

This all reminds me a lot of the late 60s and early 70s... :kick-can:

I agree based upon my own experience and ties with the sspx..definitely a 'don't ask don't tell' policy. There existed what could be described as almost a fear in the faithful in questioning or showing discontent for fear of being thrown out or alienated. And among the women particularly, a excessive obedience/fear towards the priests...that goes hand in hand with the 'woman should be seen and not heard' mentality of sspx'ers...women shouldn't be overly educated, they should stick to praying rosaries and novenas, cleaning the church, and if they don't become religious, they should marry and have families...problem is, few of them do! I think I witnessed one marriage in 7 years at my sspx chapel....

Good luck to those who have to start with garage masses again....the other three bishops know this...+Williamson has been content to remain in his position for the last three years, and it isn't so uncomfortable...In my opinion, talk of a split in the sspx could nothing more than just that...talk. Sure, there will those that leave and search for other alternatives, but I don't believe it will be anywhere near the number some are suggesting...especially with the threat of 'schismatic' hanging over their heads.... :kick-can:

I disagree respectfully with Bernadette and don't see anything wrong with the womenfolk " praying rosaries and novenas, cleaning the church, and if they don't become religious, they should marry and have families".

In Ireland there have been marriages and religious vocations. As for Bishop Williamson leaving the SSPX. This is exactly what Bishop Fellay wants.

Faithful are not members unless third order so there I am in agreement with Bernadette. Catholics attend chapels for Mass and valid sacraments. They are not under obedience to SSPX priests.

finegan · « **Reply #16 on:** May 11, 2012, 11:02:11 AM »

Quote from: s2srea

Quote from: finegan
Well, I would imagine the Archbishop faced similar odds when he first started out, no? He also was not very young. I think this is the part where we do as he did: Truth first, do all you can, and leave it in Gods hands.

Fortunate for us we have the three who are doing what they can, I'm sure. When they make their move, as they seem to be on the side of Truth, I'm sure all they'll want is for us to be ready. We will be!

In some ways, ABL's task was easier in the 1970s and 1980s. People at the time were so desperate to escape the Novus Ordo that they made heroic efforts to acquire chapel buildings, find Traditional priests, and so forth. Many of today's younger SSPX adherents (including a growing number of large families) have never known a time when the TLM -- and even a Traditional Catholic school -- were not readily available to them. In my city, there are 6-7 TLM locations every Sunday. These include SSPX, FSSP, diocesan, SV, etc.

Will people really go the extra mile to support a revitalized Traditionalist movement when, for many, it's just about the Mass and Sacraments?

Wessex · « **Reply #17 on:** May 11, 2012, 02:06:28 PM »

Quote from: LordPhan

Quote from: bernadette
Quote from: finegan
Do the auxiliary bishops have the courage and energy to undertake the massive task of rebuilding the SSPX from the ground up? Who will pay for new chapel buildings, travel and living expenses, etc.? How many of the faithful will support this effort with their pocketbook and physical labor? I am not optimistic regarding the latter. Most of the parishioners at my SSPX Mass center seem content with a nice liturgy and the social aspects of chapel life. I don't hear anyone discussing the impending agreement and its implications for our parish. It's almost like there's a "don't ask, don't tell" policy among the resident priests and faithful.

This all reminds me a lot of the late 60s and early 70s... :kick-can:

I agree based upon my own experience and ties with the sspx..definitely a 'don't ask don't tell' policy. There existed what could be described as almost a fear in the faithful in questioning or showing discontent for fear of being thrown out or alienated. And among the women particularly, a excessive obedience/fear towards the priests...that goes hand in hand with the 'woman should be seen and not heard' mentality of sspx'ers...women shouldn't be overly educated, they should stick to praying rosaries and novenas, cleaning the church, and if they don't become religious, they should marry and have families...problem is, few of them do! I think I witnessed one marriage in 7 years at my sspx chapel....

Good luck to those who have to start with garage masses again....the other three bishops know this...+Williamson has been content to remain in his position for the last three years, and it isn't so uncomfortable...In my opinion, talk of a split in the sspx could nothing more than just that...talk. Sure, there will those that leave and search for other alternatives, but I don't believe it will be anywhere near the number some are suggesting...especially with the threat of 'schismatic' hanging over their heads.... :kick-can:

Spoken like a modernist. Your observatations are quite telling not in of themselves but in the way you describe them. It clearly shows your worldly and modernist aswell as feminist ideas.

You obviously do not understand the role of women and are filling in the gaps in your head with the brainwashing of the masonic society and tv culture in America.

When it comes to another crisis in the church such as this, it needs both strong men and strong women to speak out at what they see is happening under their noses, even at the expense of crossing dismissive and disinterested priests. The masonic order will use any means to sign up timid traditional institutions, while its member-priests are convinced that they are doing the Church's work. Turning a blind eye on the greater world may now be the Fellay way but it is a sharp shift in policy.

Are we different to the 'pay, pray and obey' congregations of the past? The world would have all its citizens doing just that in obedience to its gods. If we refuse their unjust demands, why not those of priests?

bernadette · « **Reply #18 on:** May 11, 2012, 06:09:05 PM »

Quote from: LordPhan

Quote from: bernadette
Quote from: finegan
Do the auxiliary bishops have the courage and energy to undertake the massive task of rebuilding the SSPX from the ground up? Who will pay for new chapel buildings, travel and living expenses, etc.? How many of the faithful will support this effort with their pocketbook and physical labor? I am not optimistic regarding the latter. Most of the parishioners at my SSPX Mass center seem content with a nice liturgy and the social aspects of chapel life. I don't hear anyone discussing the impending agreement and its implications for our parish. It's almost like there's a "don't ask, don't tell" policy among the resident priests and faithful.

This all reminds me a lot of the late 60s and early 70s... :kick-can:

I agree based upon my own experience and ties with the sspx..definitely a 'don't ask don't tell' policy. There existed what could be described as almost a fear in the faithful in questioning or showing discontent for fear of being thrown out or alienated. And among the women particularly, a excessive obedience/fear towards the priests...that goes hand in hand with the 'woman should be seen and not heard' mentality of sspx'ers...women shouldn't be overly educated, they should stick to praying rosaries and novenas, cleaning the church, and if they don't become religious, they should marry and have families...problem is, few of them do! I think I witnessed one marriage in 7 years at my sspx chapel....

Good luck to those who have to start with garage masses again....the other three bishops know this...+Williamson has been content to remain in his position for the last three years, and it isn't so uncomfortable...In my opinion, talk of a split in the sspx could nothing more than just that...talk. Sure, there will those that leave and search for other alternatives, but I don't believe it will be anywhere near the number some are suggesting...especially with the threat of 'schismatic' hanging over their heads.... :kick-can:

Spoken like a modernist. Your observatations are quite telling not in of themselves but in the way you describe them. It clearly shows your worldly and modernist aswell as feminist ideas.

You obviously do not understand the role of women and are filling in the gaps in your head with the brainwashing of the masonic society and tv culture in America.

Lord Phan...what is modernist in what I have said? My observations are right on target, so don't play the modernist/feminist card with me. If you would take the time to read, you would find that the role of women in many ages throughout history was quite the opposite of your 1950's sspx storybook ideal...of course, I think it is absolutely necessary for married women to accept the role of wife and mother, stay out of the workplace and concentrate on raising the children...involvement in the upkeep of the church is lovely when they have the time...still, women don't need to stay at the grade school or even high school level...strong women throughout history have become martyrs and saints it is true...and women were far better educated than they are today...furthermore, women have as much to offer in opinion as do men...those that are educated that is...what will you have? An uneducated wife that will remain barefoot and pregnant? Please, that it really on the hillbilly side...you and your generation...thirty somethings I guess? You all need to get real...

Telesphorus · « **Reply #19 on:** May 11, 2012, 06:26:59 PM »

Quote from: bernadette

strong women throughout history have become martyrs and saints it is true...and women were far better educated than they are today

I doubt the general level of learning was greater. Certainly the general level of knowledge of useful household skills was incomparably greater than today.

Quote

...furthermore, women have as much to offer in opinion as do men...those that are educated that is...

A cursory examination of literature, science, history, etc, should dispel that illusion. Certainly there have always been women who've been interested in venturing their opinions. And we're fortunate Bernadette, that you're one of the more interesting ones in this little circle of forums.

Quote

what will you have? An uneducated wife that will remain barefoot and pregnant?

A woman who knows how to be a natural woman is rare these days.

Quote

Please, that it really on the hillbilly side...you and your generation...thirty somethings I guess? You all need to get real...

Perhaps your trouble is that you have roots in the South and live in California.

If we are to speak of human intelligence, certainly the greatest role an intelligent woman can play is that of mother. Nothing else an intelligent woman can do comes close. It takes a certain degree of intelligence to really believe that.

bernadette · « **Reply #20 on:** May 11, 2012, 09:34:42 PM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

Quote from: bernadette
strong women throughout history have become martyrs and saints it is true...and women were far better educated than they are today

I doubt the general level of learning was greater. Certainly the general level of knowledge of useful household skills was incomparably greater than today.

Quote
...furthermore, women have as much to offer in opinion as do men...those that are educated that is...

A cursory examination of literature, science, history, etc, should dispel that illusion. Certainly there have always been women who've been interested in venturing their opinions. And we're fortunate Bernadette, that you're one of the more interesting ones in this little circle of forums.

Quote
what will you have? An uneducated wife that will remain barefoot and pregnant?

A woman who knows how to be a natural woman is rare these days.

Quote
Please, that it really on the hillbilly side...you and your generation...thirty somethings I guess? You all need to get real...

Perhaps your trouble is that you have roots in the South and live in California.

If we are to speak of human intelligence, certainly the greatest role an intelligent woman can play is that of mother. Nothing else an intelligent woman can do comes close. It takes a certain degree of intelligence to really believe that.

Hello my good friend Tele!

I really do believe that women were far better educated in the past than today...many women learned several languages, studied ancient Greek and Latin, read extensively the classics in literature, poetry, etc..played the piano or other musical instruments, they were adept at needlework, sewing, lace-making, beading, drawing...they were learned in history, botany, architecture, religion...they focused on refinement, good manners, proper etiquette...no, today we see a society in decline, revolutionary minds...minds that are filled with the junk they absorb off of the television, radio, news media, movie theatre....and if women aren't well educated, they can't raise well-educated children....how is that for food for thought?

I don't think that being born and raised in Southern California is the trouble...the trouble is the type of breeding and background, education and religion one has/receives....or lack thereof!

Yes, I agree, the greatest role an intelligent woman can play in life is that of wife and mother....but Tele...the key word here is "intelligent"....otherwise we encourage and contribute to subpar humanity...

Telesphorus · « **Reply #21 on:** May 11, 2012, 09:37:20 PM »

Quote

I really do believe that women were far better educated in the past than today...many women learned several languages, studied ancient Greek and Latin, read extensively the classics in literature, poetry, etc..played the piano or other musical instruments,

I think you're talking about a very select group of young women who were educated that way. And in fact such accomplishments are not so uncommon these days.

bernadette · « **Reply #22 on:** May 11, 2012, 10:40:53 PM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

Quote
I really do believe that women were far better educated in the past than today...many women learned several languages, studied ancient Greek and Latin, read extensively the classics in literature, poetry, etc..played the piano or other musical instruments,

I think you're talking about a very select group of young women who were educated that way. And in fact such accomplishments are not so uncommon these days.

I don't think it was as small or select a group as you suspect...even the poorer classes strove to elevate themselves...let us always strive to elevate not to degenerate!

Angelia · « **Reply #23 on:** May 12, 2012, 04:15:13 AM »

Keep up the fight. It is obligation to tell everyone. I am a parishioner from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. Our district superior Fr. Couture has been giving us Mass every Sunday for the last month..

I am the only one distributing all the docuмents to people. All have chose to ignore and just listen to what Fr. COuture says....just pray..everything will be okay.

I don't buy all that. Every week the news from him contradicts..like the communique from Bp. Fellay.

We must be ready to take actions when all falls into place. It is time for spring cleaning.

Lucca Back · « **Reply #24 on:** May 12, 2012, 06:02:21 AM »

Quote from: Angelia

Keep up the fight. It is obligation to tell everyone. I am a parishioner from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. Our district superior Fr. Couture has been giving us Mass every Sunday for the last month..

I am the only one distributing all the docuмents to people. All have chose to ignore and just listen to what Fr. COuture says....just pray..everything will be okay.

I don't buy all that. Every week the news from him contradicts..like the communique from Bp. Fellay.

We must be ready to take actions when all falls into place. It is time for spring cleaning.

I joined yesterday. You joined today. Grave danger toward us make us do something, like joining this forum to share our future.

Fr. Daniel were not there when His Excellency Bishop Williamson visit Akita Japan, May 6th.

I think Fr. Daniel is Soft-Liner.

AJNC · « **Reply #25 on:** May 12, 2012, 06:25:31 AM »

Quote from: Lucca Back

Quote from: Angelia
Keep up the fight. It is obligation to tell everyone. I am a parishioner from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia. Our district superior Fr. Couture has been giving us Mass every Sunday for the last month..

I am the only one distributing all the docuмents to people. All have chose to ignore and just listen to what Fr. COuture says....just pray..everything will be okay.

I don't buy all that. Every week the news from him contradicts..like the communique from Bp. Fellay.

We must be ready to take actions when all falls into place. It is time for spring cleaning.

I joined yesterday. You joined today. Grave danger toward us make us do something, like joining this forum to share our future.

Fr. Daniel were not there when His Excellency Bishop Williamson visit Akita Japan, May 6th.

I think Fr. Daniel is Soft-Liner.

Fr Couture likes AIRLINERS the best, going here, there and everywhere ( except to be seen anywhere near Bishop Williamson!).

Fr Joven Soliman of Manila, ordained by the SSPX, is now an independent priest in Manila. Here his address if you don't already have it:

FATHER JOVEN SOLIMAN <frjsoliman@yahoo.com>

Ethelred · « **Reply #26 on:** May 12, 2012, 08:07:58 AM »

It's nice to have fellow catholics from (South-) Korea and India here on Cathinfo! Welcome!

Quote from: Lucca Back

Fr. Daniel were not there when His Excellency Bishop Williamson visit Akita Japan, May 6th.

The Bishop visited Akita on 6 May 2012? A very interesting note, thank you.

He mentioned it occasionally in his Rector Letters, in sermons and also in his ECs, for example :

Quote from: EC

EC 192 (19 March 2011), Why suffering?
[..]
Secondly, human suffering can well be a warning, to turn men away from evil and keep them from pride. Right now the whole godless West should be questioning its own materialism and prosperity. By the steadily increasing rate of earthquakes and other natural disasters all over the world over the last several years, the Lord God is certainly trying to get the attention of all of us, maybe in the hope that he will not have to inflict on us the worldwide „rain of fire“ of which his Mother warned us at Akita (in Japan) in 1973.

(P.S. Fr Couture is 100% pro BpF.)

Sanct Franz Xaver, pray for us!
= St Francis Xavier in English.

Lucca Back · « **Reply #27 on:** May 12, 2012, 06:47:03 PM »

Quote from: Ethelred

It's nice to have fellow catholics from (South-) Korea and India here on Cathinfo! Welcome!

Quote from: Lucca Back
Fr. Daniel were not there when His Excellency Bishop Williamson visit Akita Japan, May 6th.

The Bishop visited Akita on 6 May 2012? A very interesting note, thank you.

He mentioned it occasionally in his Rector Letters, in sermons and also in his ECs, for example :
Quote from: EC
EC 192 (19 March 2011), Why suffering?
[..]
Secondly, human suffering can well be a warning, to turn men away from evil and keep them from pride. Right now the whole godless West should be questioning its own materialism and prosperity. By the steadily increasing rate of earthquakes and other natural disasters all over the world over the last several years, the Lord God is certainly trying to get the attention of all of us, maybe in the hope that he will not have to inflict on us the worldwide „rain of fire“ of which his Mother warned us at Akita (in Japan) in 1973.

(P.S. Fr Couture is 100% pro BpF.)

Sanct Franz Xaver, pray for us!
= St Francis Xavier in English.

His Excellency Bishop Williamson visited South Korea, visited Akita Japn from May 5th to May 7th 2012.

Maybe some of them who went to that pilgrimage would try to upload his pilgrimage video. But I don't know whether she would upload His Excellency's Sermon Video. Because SG don't want the release of that video.

http://cathinfo-warning-pornography!/Ignis_Ardens/index.php?showtopic=9340

ServusSpiritusSancti · « **Reply #28 on:** May 12, 2012, 10:20:51 PM »

Quote from: bernadette

strong women throughout history have become martyrs and saints it is true...and women were far better educated than they are today...furthermore, women have as much to offer in opinion as do men...those that are educated that is...what will you have? An uneducated wife that will remain barefoot and pregnant? Please, that it really on the hillbilly side...you and your generation...thirty somethings I guess? You all need to get real...

Women should only go to college if they plan on staying single... and even then they should do online college courses instead of going to a campus with liberal professors and immorality. Women who intend to marry should not go to college.

Then again, a woman who plans on staying single could always have a job in self-employment. That's what most Trad men do anyway...

Charles · « **Reply #29 on:** May 12, 2012, 10:34:11 PM »

finegan said
"Do the auxiliary bishops have the courage and energy to undertake the massive task of rebuilding the SSPX from the ground up? "

I'd like to know why they don't have the courage to see a practical agreement as an opportunity to infiltrate the Newchurch and take back the Vatican over time.

With Newchurch crippled and exposed nowadays (the sex scandal), don't orthodox clergy have a duty to try ? Instead of watching from a safe distance ?