Author Topic: SSPX transfers 2015 (Read 42747 times)

Matthew · « **Reply #25 on:** June 17, 2015, 11:34:55 AM »

Quote from: wallflower

Haha, how is anyone going to know if anything has changed by going to Ordinations? Did he mean you'd see if the ceremony has changed, the grounds? Would things have to get that bad that they were doing NO ceremonies before he took stock? Otherwise I don't know what he would be getting at. You really don't get an inside view at all at Ordinations. You go, you attend the ceremony, you mill around the grounds with a few hundred people and you go home.

Exactly.

They could be teaching Sigmund Freud as a new class, the seminarians could be taught ridiculous new doctrines on a daily basis, and the seminarians could even have a TV in each bedroom, but no one would know any of that just by going to Ordinations. (Note: these "charges" are purely hypothetical: I'm just making these things up, in order to make a point.)

Attending Ordinations is like reading the old "Verbum" newspaper they put out -- a glossy, idealized, controlled representation of Seminary life. It tells you nothing.

To use a recent comparison, it's like a Facebook page or blog. You only post stuff you know everyone would like. On a person's Facebook page, the house is always clean, the kids are always well-behaved, you never have to raise your voice, etc. Not exactly a snapshot of real life. If you read a person's Facebook page every day, can you say it's the same as living in their house? Do you really know them?

(By the way, the Verbum was glossy/idealized/controlled even when I was there. They're not going to publish anything controversial or anything that would shock/disappoint/scandalize the faithful. It wasn't full of lies; it just didn't volunteer any embarrassing truths. It was NOT a newspaper in the traditional sense.)

Matthew · « **Reply #26 on:** June 17, 2015, 11:46:39 AM »

Quote from: TKGS

Quote from: Centroamerica
Why didn't anybody take the Doctrinal Declaration of 2012 and a copy of the CNA interview to him?

These seem to indicate, at the least, that there was a change in position, especially regarding the Council and the light of Tradition part.

I would have discussed it with him if I had the chance. It would have been nice to know how he would respond to these two items.

Probably because they instinctively know that it's a trap. If one were to take these things to him, they would find themselves persona non grata at that chapel.

It's merely another manifestation of Newspeak. Father makes it clear that nothing has changed and even challenges people to show him any evidence that anything has changed while he studiously ignores all the evidence staring him in the face.

This is the simpler, and more likely, explanation.

Sure, it's theoretically possible that Fr. Kurtz is of impeccable good will, but he just can't see the truth of the Resistance position. But it's not probable. As Catholics, we can't assume the worst about people, but we are allowed to be prudent. Unfortunately, we are forced (once again) to sift priests, to figure out which ones are preaching true Catholic doctrine; which ones will help us maintain Tradition and help us save our souls unsullied from the world around us.

We don't have to judge his soul at all. In fact, we aren't supposed to! We shouldn't be giving him a whole lot of thought either way. Just pray for him and the other priests, and move on.

We know objectively what's going on in the SSPX; anyone who can't see that must be avoided. Not with anger, outbursts, or drama -- but calmly avoided nevertheless. Meanwhile, we must support those priests who DO see the problems -- those who are willing to help US to keep the Faith and continue to give us the doubt-free Traditional Mass and sacraments.

Personally, I don't spend any time or energy worrying about individual priests still in the SSPX. My only interest is in figuring out who is leaning towards the Resistance, and who is acting as an enemy. That external forum -- that which affects me and other Catholics I know -- is all that I need to be concerned about.

Only God knows what is inside the hearts of each individual priest. I can't say whether a priest is "good, holy" or not. All I can speak to is a priest's actions -- are they objectively in line with Tradition or not.

Matthew · « **Reply #27 on:** June 17, 2015, 11:54:33 AM »

Let's put it this way: There is a very practical element to this discussion about Fr. Kurtz.

We only have to worry about Fr. Kurtz insofar as he is an "alternative" to Fr. Zendejas, who is also saying weekly Mass in the Houston, TX area.

So it's not a question of "Isn't Fr. Kurtz' Mass valid?" That is the wrong question. The real question is, "Should a Catholic attend Fr. Kurtz' Mass every Sunday, or the Mass said by Fr. Zendejas? Which would have better effects on one's Catholic formation? Which is safer for remaining Traditional long-term?"

Keeping in mind, of course, that it's not Fr. Kurtz personally that is the only potential danger -- it's his association with a known compromised entity (SSPX) that is the real danger.

The two Mass centers exist. Each has Mass every Sunday morning. Catholics must choose which one is the better choice for them and their families. If they stay in the SSPX, stay ignorant (accidental or willful), and do nothing, they are also making a choice.

Centroamerica · « **Reply #28 on:** June 17, 2015, 12:20:39 PM »

Quote from: TKGS

Quote from: Centroamerica
Why didn't anybody take the Doctrinal Declaration of 2012 and a copy of the CNA interview to him?

These seem to indicate, at the least, that there was a change in position, especially regarding the Council and the light of Tradition part.

I would have discussed it with him if I had the chance. It would have been nice to know how he would respond to these two items.

Probably because they instinctively know that it's a trap. If one were to take these things to him, they would find themselves persona non grata at that chapel.

It's merely another manifestation of Newspeak. Father makes it clear that nothing has changed and even challenges people to show him any evidence that anything has changed while he studiously ignores all the evidence staring him in the face.

Oh, just by reading these comments with no insight into the situation, I wouldn't have known that. Anyhow, being the hardhead that I am, I would still have discussed it with him come what may. (and recorded his response without his knowledge with an iphone voice recorder). :nunchaku:

Marlelar · « **Reply #29 on:** June 17, 2015, 01:46:09 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

We only have to worry about Fr. Kurtz insofar as he is an "alternative" to Fr. Zendejas, who is also saying weekly Mass in the Houston, TX area.

I thought Fr. Zendejas was in the north-east? Has he relocated to Houston? I will be in Houston next month, how do I find out where the Mass is?