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Author Topic: SSPX Trad Culture is Near Dead  (Read 4719 times)

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Offline Matthew

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Re: SSPX Trad Culture is Near Dead
« Reply #5 on: October 06, 2019, 05:51:34 PM »
Novus Ordo people need to be treated like converts/protestants.  They are no better than that.  They have very little Catholicity, if at all, in their background.  For sure they need a catechism course, along with checking their sacramental background (baptism).  The True Faith and its beliefs and practices is way different than what the New Church offers.  Such people need to catch up and adapt/convert before receiving Holy Communion. They must first be allowed to see what they are getting into and if they agree to truly be "True Catholic."  

I understand where you're coming from, and I'm not disagreeing that the SSPX has become very worldly and is full of problems, but there is one way in which all Trad priests' hands are tied. Let me put it this way:

What would you think about a chapel which scrutinized each potential member, treating them as non-Catholic until proven otherwise? Background checks, signing statements, written abjurations, cross examination by a panel of clerics and/or laypeople, and "guilty until proven innocent" with regards to being a "True Catholic"?

What would you say about such a group to your friends offline and online? I guarantee you would call them a CULT and you wouldn't be far off base!

It's even more than public relations though: what about the status of Trad chapels and Supplied Jurisdiction? Let's put it this way: the Catholic Church has NEVER been an exclusive club where the lukewarm and bad Catholics are barred at the door. If a chapel is to receive "supplied jurisdiction" from the Church to open essentially a "franchise" of the Catholic Church, don't they have to operate under the bylaws and rules of that franchise?

Operating a franchise without permission of the franchise owner is illegal. In the world of religion, opening a branch of the Catholic Church but refusing to follow all her laws is SCHISM. You're starting your own church.

The Catholic Church (which every single Trad chapel wants to be part of, and connected to) has ALWAYS been, from the very beginning, a net full of fishes, which the fisherman sifts through, throwing the good ones into the KEEP bucket and the crap into the slop bucket for the animals. See also: the parable of the Wheat and the Tares, "Many are called but few are chosen", etc.

As soon as you move beyond that, and try to "improve" upon Christ's Church -- even with the best of intentions -- you begin treading the path of every "reformer" (HERETIC!) in history.

Offline Matthew

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Re: SSPX Trad Culture is Near Dead
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2019, 05:58:01 PM »
The priest see them and how they dress when they go about town, and they say NOTHING. The SSPX has become irrelevant. They teach catechism, but not how to LIVE it.

Yes, the priests need to say something, regardless of the consequences. They need to do their jobs. Of course, it is also said that the people get the priest they deserve.

I've heard countless times about good priests preaching against this or that sin, or strongly encouraging the men of the parish to step up and serve Mass, and then that priest "gets in trouble" with the SSPX authorities after the Faithful complain -- and then a new priest is sent. Obviously that new priest is going to keep quiet about certain abuses, otherwise the cycle would continue!

Like I said: people get the priest they deserve. If they want to be worldly and lukewarm, eventually they will get "set up" with a priest who will accommodate them. But in their sorry end state, whose fault will it be -- the priest's or the faithful's? I'd say the latter. They created the DEMAND for a see-no-evil live-and-let-live priest. The SSPX authorities only gave in to their request (eventually).



Re: SSPX Trad Culture is Near Dead
« Reply #7 on: October 06, 2019, 06:35:26 PM »
I understand where you're coming from, and I'm not disagreeing that the SSPX has become very worldly and is full of problems, but there is one way in which all Trad priests' hands are tied. Let me put it this way:

What would you think about a chapel which scrutinized each potential member, treating them as non-Catholic until proven otherwise? Background checks, signing statements, written abjurations, cross examination by a panel of clerics and/or laypeople, and "guilty until proven innocent" with regards to being a "True Catholic"?

What would you say about such a group to your friends offline and online? I guarantee you would call them a CULT and you wouldn't be far off base!

It's even more than public relations though: what about the status of Trad chapels and Supplied Jurisdiction? Let's put it this way: the Catholic Church has NEVER been an exclusive club where the lukewarm and bad Catholics are barred at the door. If a chapel is to receive "supplied jurisdiction" from the Church to open essentially a "franchise" of the Catholic Church, don't they have to operate under the bylaws and rules of that franchise?

Operating a franchise without permission of the franchise owner is illegal. In the world of religion, opening a branch of the Catholic Church but refusing to follow all her laws is SCHISM. You're starting your own church.

The Catholic Church (which every single Trad chapel wants to be part of, and connected to) has ALWAYS been, from the very beginning, a net full of fishes, which the fisherman sifts through, throwing the good ones into the KEEP bucket and the crap into the slop bucket for the animals. See also: the parable of the Wheat and the Tares, "Many are called but few are chosen", etc.

As soon as you move beyond that, and try to "improve" upon Christ's Church -- even with the best of intentions -- you begin treading the path of every "reformer" (HERETIC!) in history.
This describes perfectly many a fundamentalist Protestant sect.  I know because I’ve been there, done that.  It doesn’t work.  The SSPX and other traditional Catholic groups, ALL Catholics in fact, need to be properly catechized, not just on the facts but on the application in life outside the confines of the chapel property, but it’s nothing one can legislate by rules beyond the Church as a whole.  

Offline Ladislaus

  • Supporter
Re: SSPX Trad Culture is Near Dead
« Reply #8 on: October 06, 2019, 07:07:30 PM »
Indeed, it just takes a single rotten apple to spoil the entire bushel.  Priests should understand the downward gravity of human nature due to Original Sin.  More often, the bad ones spoil the good ones, rather than the good ones making the spoiled ones bad.  Can all the good apples in a bushel somehow unspoil the rotten apple, or does it work the other way around?  Bishop Williamson was good at explaining this, the drag caused by Original Sin, where if you're not making progress in the spiritual life, you're actually going backwards, since we're swimming against the current of Original Sin.

But I guess that the new SSPX leadership wanted to banish the old guard "prophets of doom and gloom", the pessimism of the Williamson era, and open the windows of the SSPX to the Novus Ordo.  How did that work out after Vatican II?  But I guess they were unable to learn the lesson.

Re: SSPX Trad Culture is Near Dead
« Reply #9 on: October 06, 2019, 10:56:55 PM »
I don't understand why modesty is not enforced at the door of chapels, whether SSPX, ICKSP, FSSP whatever.

If you go to Rome they give all the women a blue sash to cover their chest or legs if their skirts are too short. We really need to get back to priests supporting the ushers enforcement of these rules. I've only been to one SSPX parish in my 15 years as a trad where an usher checked you at the door and made you dress modestly, and that was Fr. Danel's parish in Roswell, GA, and I'm not even sure if it's still enforced anymore since I haven't been there in 5 years.

We're going to pay a price if we don't get this modesty thing under control, it is one of the biggest problems in traditional Catholicism right now IMO.

Feminism and worldliness needs to be heavily denounced from the pulpit these days. Nothing is being said or done.

There is a new family at my parish, they've been there about 2 months now and this guy's wife dresses like a total hooker. 4 or 5 inch heels. Skirt mid thigh. Low cut top.

We had a parish picnic today and she was wearing a MINI SKIRT. A MINI SKIRT. Priests said nothing, no one said anything to her. This miniskirt was 3/4ths the way up her thigh. It's what a hooker would literally wear on the street. It's just unbelievable to me.

Sometimes I feel like I should say something but I have no idea how to approach the situation, she isn't my wife and her husband should know better. He has 6 kids and is a cradle Catholic.