Read an Interview with Matthew, the owner of CathInfo

Author Topic: SSPX takes bold step of condemning fraternity with Muslim Imam  (Read 1385 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Matthew

  • Mod
  • *****
  • Posts: 22415
  • Reputation: +19640/-140
  • Gender: Male
SSPX takes bold step of condemning fraternity with Muslim Imam
« on: February 25, 2019, 11:20:06 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Communiqué of the Superior General of the Society of Saint Pius X : True Fraternity
    FEBRUARY 25, 2019
    SOURCE: FSSPX.NEWS

    On February 4, 2019, Pope Francis together with the Grand Imam of the Mosque in Cairo signed a Document on Human Fraternity for World Peace and Living Together.

    True Fraternity Exists Only in Jesus Christ

    An ecumenical Christ would not be the true Christ. For more than fifty years, modern ecumenism and interreligious dialogue have ceaselessly presented to the world a diminished, unrecognizable, and disfigured Christ. 

    The Word of God, the only Son of the Father, uncreated Eternal Wisdom took flesh and became man; faced with this historical fact no one can remain indifferent: “He that is not with Me is against Me: and He that gathereth not with Me scattereth” (Mt 12:30). By the fact of the Incarnation, Christ became the High Priest of the unique New Covenant and the Teacher who proclaims the truth to us; He became the King of hearts and of societies and “the firstborn amongst many brethren” (Rom 8:29). Thus true fraternity exists only in Jesus Christ and in Him alone: “For there is no other name under heaven given to men, whereby we must be saved” (Acts 4:12). 

    It is a truth of the faith that Christ is King of all men and that He wants to unite them in His Church, His unique Bride, His only Mystical Body. The kingdom that He establishes is a reign of truth and grace, of holiness, justice, and charity, and consequently peaceful. There can be no true peace apart from Our Lord. It is therefore impossible to find peace outside the reign of Christ and of the religion that He founded. To forget this truth is to build on sand, and Christ Himself warns us that such an undertaking is doomed to fail (cf.Mt 7:26-27). 

    The Document on Human Fraternity for World Peace and Living Together signed by Pope Francis and the Grand Imam of Al-Azhar is nothing but a house built on sand. It is furthermore an impious gesture that scorns the First Commandment of God and attributes to the Divine Wisdom, incarnate in Jesus Christ who died for us on the Cross, the statement that “the pluralism and the diversity of religions” is “willed by God in His wisdom” 

    Such talk is opposed to the dogma that declares that the Catholic religion is the one true religion (cf.Syllabus of Errors, proposition 21). When something is a dogma, anything opposed to it is called heresy. God cannot contradict Himself. 

    Following Saint Paul and our revered founder, Abp. Marcel Lefebvre, under the protection of Our Lady, Queen of Peace, we will continue to hand on the Catholic faith that we have received (cf.1 Cor 11:23), working with all our might for the salvation of souls and of nations, by preaching the true faith and the true religion. 

     “Going therefore, teach ye all nations: baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost” (Mt 28:19-20). “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned” (Mk 16:16). 

    February 24, 2019

    Father Davide Pagliarani, Superior General

    Bp. Alfonso de Galarreta, First Assistant
    Father Christian Bouchacourt, Second Assistant



    https://fsspx.news/en/news-events/news/communiqu%C3%A9-superior-general-society-saint-pius-x-true-fraternity-45364
    Start your Amazon.com session by clicking this link, and my family and I get a commission on your purchase!

    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 22415
    • Reputation: +19640/-140
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX takes bold step of condemning fraternity with Muslim Imam
    « Reply #1 on: February 25, 2019, 11:24:12 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Considering that countless *Conciliar bishops and priests* are also critical of such blatant actions against the Faith, this hardly shows that the SSPX is the good-old SSPX of Archbishop Lefebvre.

    They could fall quite far down the ladder, and still not be so low that they can't condemn something so blatant!

    A blatantly false ecumenical gesture like this is egregious in the realm of Faith, similar to the killing of babies by abortion in the realm of nature. Even many protestants are anti-abortion. That doesn't make them faithful Catholics.

    Good on the SSPX for condemning abortion and the false ecumenical gathering at Assisi. But they still have a ways to go before they prove themselves faithful to Archbishop Lefebvre.
    Start your Amazon.com session by clicking this link, and my family and I get a commission on your purchase!


    Offline Banezian

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 281
    • Reputation: +77/-614
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX takes bold step of condemning fraternity with Muslim Imam
    « Reply #2 on: February 25, 2019, 08:44:29 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!5
  • Considering that countless *Conciliar bishops and priests* are also critical of such blatant actions against the Faith, this hardly shows that the SSPX is the good-old SSPX of Archbishop Lefebvre.

    They could fall quite far down the ladder, and still not be so low that they can't condemn something so blatant!

    A blatantly false ecumenical gesture like this is egregious in the realm of Faith, similar to the killing of babies by abortion in the realm of nature. Even many protestants are anti-abortion. That doesn't make them faithful Catholics.

    Good on the SSPX for condemning abortion and the false ecumenical gathering at Assisi. But they still have a ways to go before they prove themselves faithful to Archbishop Lefebvre.
    Your position is ridiculous. Fr. Pagliarani implicitly called Francis a heretic in this statement. And somehow he is going to compromise or sell out? The Resistance is a joke. The question isn’t really over Rome needing to convert( as plenty of Society priests believe Rome must)  It’s only real goal is to try and tear the Society apart( which is exactly what the Modernists and the Devil want)  
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
    Ephesians 2:8-9

    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 22415
    • Reputation: +19640/-140
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX takes bold step of condemning fraternity with Muslim Imam
    « Reply #3 on: February 25, 2019, 08:56:29 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Your position is ridiculous. Fr. Pagliarani implicitly called Francis a heretic in this statement. And somehow he is going to compromise or sell out? The Resistance is a joke. The question isn’t really over Rome needing to convert( as plenty of Society priests believe Rome must)  It’s only real goal is to try and tear the Society apart( which is exactly what the Modernists and the Devil want)  

    1. I really seem to have hit a nerve.

    2. When you call others ridiculous, you are projecting. You are both emotional and ridiculous in your defense of the SSPX. You don't even make substantial arguments. Call your opposition "modernist" or "the devil" isn't a substantial argument; more like childish name calling.

    3. You need to read this thread -- 28 documented changes in the SSPX and counting.
    https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/catalog-of-compromise-change-and-contradiction-in-the-sspx/

    4. Even though I left the SSPX completely a few years ago, you have a long way to go before you catch up to how much I gave of myself to the SSPX cause. You, who have personally done so little, have no right to criticize someone who has done so much for the SSPX. I have every right to speak up and criticize, since I heavily invested myself in the organization. Talk to me when you've spent 3.5 years at the SSPX seminary for starters.

    I was an active volunteer and/or seminarian for the SSPX for almost as long as you've been alive, boy.
    Start your Amazon.com session by clicking this link, and my family and I get a commission on your purchase!

    Offline ihsv

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 670
    • Reputation: +893/-86
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX takes bold step of condemning fraternity with Muslim Imam
    « Reply #4 on: February 25, 2019, 08:56:51 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!2
  • Your position is ridiculous. Fr. Pagliarani implicitly called Francis a heretic in this statement. And somehow he is going to compromise or sell out? The Resistance is a joke. The question isn’t really over Rome needing to convert( as plenty of Society priests believe Rome must)  It’s only real goal is to try and tear the Society apart( which is exactly what the Modernists and the Devil want)  

    Banezian, does your mother know you're up this late?  Isn't it past your bed time?
    Confiteor unum baptisma in remissionem peccatorum. - Nicene Creed


    Offline Banezian

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 281
    • Reputation: +77/-614
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX takes bold step of condemning fraternity with Muslim Imam
    « Reply #5 on: February 25, 2019, 09:18:21 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!5
  • 1. I really seem to have hit a nerve.

    2. When you call others ridiculous, you are projecting. You are both emotional and ridiculous in your defense of the SSPX. You don't even make substantial arguments. Call your opposition "modernist" or "the devil" isn't a substantial argument; more like childish name calling.

    3. You need to read this thread -- 28 documented changes in the SSPX and counting.
    https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/catalog-of-compromise-change-and-contradiction-in-the-sspx/

    4. Even though I left the SSPX completely a few years ago, you have a long way to go before you catch up to how much I gave of myself to the SSPX cause. You, who have personally done so little, have no right to criticize someone who has done so much for the SSPX. I have every right to speak up and criticize, since I heavily invested myself in the organization. Talk to me when you've spent 3.5 years at the SSPX seminary for starters.

    I was an active volunteer and/or seminarian for the SSPX for almost as long as you've been alive, boy.
    You didn’t hit a nerve, I’m just accurately describing your position.
    You did all that work for the SSPX? Great, so what? Bp. Donald Sanborn and Fr. Josef Bissig could say the exact same thing. Now they both try to pull folks out of the Society ( like yourself ) you have no right to accuse the Society of compromise   when all you have is speculation and nothing substantial has happened. 
    The Resistance would be a lot more respectable if it focused on improving itself instead of being a force against the Society 
    "For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast."
    Ephesians 2:8-9

    Offline 2Vermont

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 4363
    • Reputation: +2005/-341
    • Gender: Female
    Re: SSPX takes bold step of condemning fraternity with Muslim Imam
    « Reply #6 on: February 25, 2019, 09:51:21 PM »
  • Thanks!3
  • No Thanks!1
  • Fr. Pagliarani implicitly called Francis a heretic in this statement. 
    Why is it always "implicitly"?   Why can't the various types of Recognize and Resisters just call a spade a spade already? 
    **Gave up posting for Lent** If any one saith, that the ceremonies, vestments, and outward signs, which the Catholic Church makes use of in the celebration of masses, are incentives to impiety, rather than offices of piety; let him be anathema. - Council of Trent

    Offline ihsv

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 670
    • Reputation: +893/-86
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX takes bold step of condemning fraternity with Muslim Imam
    « Reply #7 on: February 25, 2019, 09:52:08 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!0
  • The Resistance Banezian would be a lot more respectable if it he focused on improving itself himself instead of being a force against the Society the Faith.

    Fixed it for you.  Run along, now.
    Confiteor unum baptisma in remissionem peccatorum. - Nicene Creed


    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 22415
    • Reputation: +19640/-140
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX takes bold step of condemning fraternity with Muslim Imam
    « Reply #8 on: February 26, 2019, 07:41:09 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • You did all that work for the SSPX? Great, so what? Bp. Donald Sanborn and Fr. Josef Bissig could say the exact same thing. Now they both try to pull folks out of the Society ( like yourself ) you have no right to accuse the Society of compromise   when all you have is speculation and nothing substantial has happened.

    Looks like a rebuttal on paper (which rebuttal doesn't?) but when you scratch the surface, one discovers that it's made of fresh horse manure.

    The difference between myself and Bishop Sanborn/Fr. Bissig is that the latter CHANGED THEIR POSITION in some way, or had a position which opposed the SSPX position from the beginning (e.g., Sedevacantism) and I did not.

    I was perfectly content with the SSPX position, and in fact I'm sticking with that position, even after the SSPX abandoned it for the FSSP's position.

    It would be equally valid to throw your crude argument at Abp Lefebvre: "Sure, you served the Church for decades. But then you LEFT just like so many heresiarchs, only to spew venom and vitriol at your former Mother!" ...except that, upon closer inspection, it turns out that +ABL had no new beliefs or doctrines. He didn't change at all. It was the Conciliar Church that changed.
    Start your Amazon.com session by clicking this link, and my family and I get a commission on your purchase!

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 16503
    • Reputation: +9046/-3679
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX takes bold step of condemning fraternity with Muslim Imam
    « Reply #9 on: February 26, 2019, 08:11:32 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • I can find no fault with this particular document, despite the SSPX's other issues.

    Now, if only they really believed the following:
    Quote
    “Going therefore, teach ye all nations: baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost” (Mt 28:19-20). “He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved: but he that believeth not shall be condemned” (Mk 16:16).

    But when you have Bishop Fellay going around telling people that infidels can be saved, this citation rings hollow.

    Offline Matthew

    • Mod
    • *****
    • Posts: 22415
    • Reputation: +19640/-140
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX takes bold step of condemning fraternity with Muslim Imam
    « Reply #10 on: February 26, 2019, 08:13:56 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • I can find no fault with this particular document, despite the SSPX's other issues.

    I found no fault either -- that's my point. Many could agree with their "bold" statement, including many conservative (rather than Trad), Novus Ordo Catholics and perhaps even Protestants.
    They didn't exactly go out on a limb when they released that.
    Start your Amazon.com session by clicking this link, and my family and I get a commission on your purchase!


    Offline Ladislaus

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 16503
    • Reputation: +9046/-3679
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX takes bold step of condemning fraternity with Muslim Imam
    « Reply #11 on: February 26, 2019, 08:14:49 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Communiqué of the Superior General of the Society of Saint Pius X : True Fraternity
    FEBRUARY 25, 2019
    SOURCE: FSSPX.NEWS 

    The Document on Human Fraternity for World Peace and Living Together signed by Pope Francis and the Grand Imam of Al-Azhar is nothing but a house built on sand. It is furthermore an impious gesture that scorns the First Commandment of God and attributes to the Divine Wisdom, incarnate in Jesus Christ who died for us on the Cross, the statement that “the pluralism and the diversity of religions” is “willed by God in His wisdom”

    So Francis pertinaciously holds and teaches heresy, but he's not a heretic?

    Offline Ladislaus

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 16503
    • Reputation: +9046/-3679
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX takes bold step of condemning fraternity with Muslim Imam
    « Reply #12 on: February 26, 2019, 08:16:31 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I found no fault either -- that's my point. Many could agree with their "bold" statement, including many conservative (rather than Trad), Novus Ordo Catholics and perhaps even Protestants.
    They didn't exactly go out on a limb when they released that.

    Certainly they did not go out on a limb theologically, but they did politically in essentially condemning the statement and, in so many words, stating that Francis is promoting heresy.  That certainly will not help any re-unification effort.

    Offline Smedley Butler

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1219
    • Reputation: +492/-1418
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX takes bold step of condemning fraternity with Muslim Imam
    « Reply #13 on: February 26, 2019, 08:46:49 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • So Francis pertinaciously holds and teaches heresy, but he's not a heretic?
    I guess it was only an "impious gesture."
    ::)

    Offline Pax Vobis

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3734
    • Reputation: +2326/-1084
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX takes bold step of condemning fraternity with Muslim Imam
    « Reply #14 on: February 26, 2019, 08:49:58 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • I don't think the new-sspx will make a deal with +Francis.  I'm betting that +Fellay has been given back-room assurances that the next pope will be "conservative" (moreso than +Francis, which isn't saying much) and they'll make a deal with him.

     

    Sitemap 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16