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Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: DustyActual on January 05, 2022, 06:18:22 PM

Title: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: DustyActual on January 05, 2022, 06:18:22 PM
This talk by Fr. Pagliarani was recently uploaded on youtube. What do you guys think? https://youtu.be/OYuqVdzr6Ew (https://youtu.be/OYuqVdzr6Ew)
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Ladislaus on January 05, 2022, 06:37:24 PM
Just listened to the first third.

9:37 - 10:02 .... BOOOOOOOOOO!  :facepalm:

spends the first 10 minutes dancing around, leads up to this remark by saying it's legitimate to be opposed to mandatory vaccination (ignores the topic of abortion at this point)

but ends this segment by claiming.  "This is a medical issue, and that's why the SSPX isn't entering straight into this debate." (paraphrase)

This is the neo-SSPX.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Ladislaus on January 05, 2022, 06:39:47 PM
No, it's not primarily a "medical issue" and the reason neo-SSPX isn't entering into this debate is that they don't want to take sides and get anyone upset ... and therefore get bad PR and lose revenue.  Just admit it, Father and stop peeing on everyone's head and telling them it's raining.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Last Tradhican on January 05, 2022, 06:45:30 PM
Just listened to the first third.

You have quite a stomach. Someone has to watch it and confirm what everyone was expecting. Thanks.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Ladislaus on January 05, 2022, 06:46:16 PM
about 13:00 - 15:00 starts talking about Globalism but refuses to address this on those terms because it's effectively irrelevant to the consideration of the current situation

15:00 - 16:45 or so, "must keep a supernatural perspective" (i.e. cop-out from having to address the issue).  We must realize this whole thing is a punishment from God.  Thank you, Father Sherlock, for taking 2 minutes to explain what every Catholic realizes, and turning it into an excuse for not addressing the matter.

Nearly halfway through now, and NOT ONE MENTION OF ABORTION.

starting to return to "Globalism" now after this digression into the "supernatural perspective" cop-out.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Ladislaus on January 05, 2022, 06:54:01 PM
16:45 - 18:30 ... COVID is a distraction from issues like "same sex marriage" (implied, the really imporant stuff) ... takes our "focus" off of it

18:33 "last reason ... why the Society steps aside" ... I can't wait

What a digusting cop-out, and calling it "stepping aside".
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Ladislaus on January 05, 2022, 07:01:29 PM
18:33 - 21:26 you need to sit down for this one.  This is rich.

SSPX steps aside because there's the anti-vax movement is driven largely by the far left, in the interests of human rights and free choice, and are in league with the "my body my choice" movement.  He's characterizing the ANTI-vax movement as being allied with the PRO-ABORTIOINISTS.  This is his first reference to abortion and he ties it to the anti-Vax movement.  Doesn't use the word but refers to "it's my belly".
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Ladislaus on January 05, 2022, 07:07:18 PM
21:26 - 23:26 ... and ironically the pro-vax side is driven by the same false principles:  "freedom" and "human rights".  So it's evil to believe that people should have certain freedoms and rights in a normal society?  He says these people want to impose the vax so they can return to "normal" and be free.

If I had eaten dinner right before watching this, I'd be throwing up right about now.

If I were in the audience, I'd be booing and heckling him at this point.

SSPX is totally dead.  It's a worthless carcass of its former self.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Ladislaus on January 05, 2022, 07:10:09 PM
Finishes in another 30 seconds.  "But it's a big issue.  We trust in Providence in this crisis, which has never abandoned us in striving to retain Tradition."

So he presumes that God will help them despite their failure to do anything to stand up against this evil.

Truly disgusting.  Receives applause at the end here, 24:00 ... not sure why the video is 36:00 minutes long.  Applause he received tells you the state of the SSXP sheep.

I'm truly disgusted.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Ladislaus on January 05, 2022, 07:12:46 PM
Apparently 24-36 is a Q&A panel from the following day.

So in his main speech about COVID, in 24 minutes, he did not so much as mention the problem of abortion-tainting of the jabs.

So he finally addresses the abortion-tainting question being forced to by a question.

He says that it's permissible to take the jab, "legitimate to take" is his expression, and that it reduces to a "prudential" consideration where each individual has to consider the impact to his health.  He says that it's an "extremely delicate" question (I've never seen a bigger spineless jellyfish in my life) and he's starting out by cautioning that we immediately have an emotional revulsion due to hearing the word "abortion" ... but (it's where I get cut off) ... my guess is he's leading toward saying that we can't let our reasoning be guided by such an emotional and irrational reaction.  I'll see if I was right.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Angelus on January 05, 2022, 07:27:33 PM
Pagliarani is a sophist. Far from supporting his lame argument, the example of food sacrificed to idols (1 Corinthians 8-11) provides the moral framework for REJECTING the vaccines because, by providing a market for pharmaceuticals tested on aborted fetal tissue, we encourage the development of additional aborted fetal cell lines. And it is precisely the SCANDAL of Catholics publicly consuming items generated by sacrilege to extend their own lives that St. Paul warned against.

The Resistance is correct. The Society is rotten at the top (including the Districts). However, I still believe that there are many good Society priests. Ours has directly contradicted the Society position on the vaccines, because of the abortion issue, in multiple homilies.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Ladislaus on January 05, 2022, 07:33:15 PM
So now he begins to ramble around material remote cooperation, though he never uses the actual phrase, saying instead that it's possible to "take advantage of the evil done by others".

"Take advantage"?  That is NOT the right expression here.

He uses the example of taking a cornea from a person who was "killed" (presumably he means "murdered").

Ridiculous example because --
1) you can only take the cornea if the person indicated a willingness to donate it (vs. the theft of the remains of the aborted baby)
2) you can't do that if they're killing people in order to supply corneas

We're in scenario #2 here and not just a person who happened to be killed.

Then he babbles about he it's OK to take a mosque and convert it into a Catholic Church or eat meat sacrified to idols.  Has absolutely nothing to do with this issue.

If there were an operation where people were going around murdering individuals to provide a supply of corneas, yes indeed it would be formal cooperation in the evil for you to go in and receive that procedure.  This is actually one of the clearest example yet (ironically incorrectly applied to support his position) of why it's evil to get the jab.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Ladislaus on January 05, 2022, 07:35:25 PM
And here's one of the most disturbing parts.

Evidently there was someone from "Catholic Answers" sitting on the panel who chimed in that "Catholic Answers" and "catholic.com" wholeheartedly support the SSPX position as consistent with Catholic theology.

What is Catholic Answers doing at an SSPX conference?  Fact that these two are in league now tells me everything that I need to know about neo-SSPX.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: bodeens on January 05, 2022, 07:40:26 PM
Reconciliation with Rome: The Speech
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Ladislaus on January 05, 2022, 07:43:18 PM
Pagliarani is a sophist. Far from supporting his lame argument, the example of food sacrificed to idols (1 Corinthians 8-11) provides the moral framework for REJECTING the vaccines because, by providing a market for pharmaceuticals tested on aborted fetal tissue, we encourage the development of additional aborted fetal cell lines. And it is precisely the SCANDAL of Catholics publicly consuming items generated by sacrilege to extend their own lives that St. Paul warned against.

The Resistance is correct. The Society is rotten at the top (including the Districts). However, I still believe that there are many good Society priests. Ours has directly contradicted the Society position on the vaccines, because of the abortion issue, in multiple homilies.

Yes, you beat me to it.  His worst example, the first one, is taking the cornea from a "killed" person.  Presumably he means someone "murdered" rather than, say, "killed" in a car accident.

1) it would be a grave sin to take the cornea if the person did not give prior consent (designated as a donor).  That's the Fr. Ripperger argument.  It's correct.  It's tantamout to theft of their remains.

2) if there were an operation that killed people in order to take their corneas, that's not simply after-the-fact cooperation with evil.  It's formal cooperation with the entire operation.  That's the +Vigano argument.  It's correct.  Bishop Williamson agreed with this.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: DustyActual on January 05, 2022, 07:57:31 PM
Fr. Pagliarani said that it's a question of prudence; Okay but wouldn't it be a mortal sin against the virtue of prudence if a father of a family takes the vaccine knowing that it is dangerous? The father is risking leaving his family without a father.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Ladislaus on January 05, 2022, 08:01:24 PM
Summary:

Fr. Pagliarani's opening speech lasted 24 minutes.  He spent the first ten minutes building up to the notion that the SSPX has chosen to "step aside" because this is a "medical issue".  Ridiculous.  Medical issues often have moral aspects, take sterilization, or in vitro fertilization, etc.  He implies that this is solely a medical issue.

He talks around the notion of "globalism" but refuses to say that they have an obligation to oppose the Satanic globalist agenda.  He feigns being "above it" by appealing to the "supernatural aspect," namely, that it's a punishment for our sins.  EVERY EVIL is allowed by God as a punishment.  That does not absolve anyone of the obligation to fight and resist it.

He says the SSPX refuse to takes sides because he says that both the anti-jab and the pro-jab sides appear to the false principles of "freedom" and "human rights".  So it's OK for a government to butcher its citizens and wrong to insist that they have a right to live?  Communism can take away the human "right" to private property?  He thereby throws out the entire social teaching of the Popes and dethrones Christ the king, deferring to the Globalists.

And his ONLY mention of abortion in the keynote speech was to actually associate the ANTI-JAB movement with abortion, claiming that they're appealing to "my body my choice" thinking.  NOT ONE WORD in his keynote speech about the abortion tainting of the jab.

In the panel discussion later, he tries to pretend that St. Thomas Aquinas backs his position, rambling around the "remote material cooperation" and wrongly referring to it as "taking advantage" of evils done by others.  Sure, let me go to a car lot selling stolen vehicles to "take advantage" of that.  Is he out of his mind or asleep in seminary or a Satanic infiltrator?  This was so bad that I have come to the conclusion that Pagliarani is a Masonic infiltrator of the SSPX.  He had the gall to tie the anti-jab movement to abortion and ignore the abortion link to the jab in his main / keynote speech.

Finally, he uses the "taking cornea from a person who had been killed example" that actually is a deliberately false metaphor.  And the gaps in his metaphor actually prove more clearly the reasons (1 and 2) above why it's really formal cooperation and a grave sin.

This is so bad that it's of the devil, and I accuse Pagliarani of being a Masonic infiltrator.

If by necessity I ever have to set foot in an SSPX chapel again, they're never getting another dime of collection money out of me.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Ladislaus on January 05, 2022, 08:06:33 PM
This speech could have been written by Satan himself.  EVERYTHING about it was wrong and bad.  EVERYTHING.

And the SSPX crowed just clapped and lapped it up.  But it was endorsed by "Catholic Answers".

SSPX has been completely taken over and are nothing but controlled opposition.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: bodeens on January 05, 2022, 08:21:47 PM
I'm wondering if Sanborn and the SSPX are getting their talking points or marching orders from the same source. They both see globalism in a vacuum and not as a force interacting with current events and moral issues. They even similarly articulate the vaccine issue under this lens.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: SeanJohnson on January 05, 2022, 09:57:38 PM
Fr. Pagliarani said that it's a question of prudence; Okay but wouldn't it be a mortal sin against the virtue of prudence if a father of a family takes the vaccine knowing that it is dangerous? The father is risking leaving his family without a father.

From Fr. Ambrose Astor (pseudonym):

https://catacombs.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/misc/Fr._Ambrose_Astor/Ambrosiaster_2_Prudence.pdf
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Pax Vobis on January 05, 2022, 10:01:14 PM
Quote
I'm wondering if Sanborn and the SSPX are getting their talking points or marching orders from the same source. They both see globalism in a vacuum and not as a force interacting with current events and moral issues. They even similarly articulate the vaccine issue under this lens.
This whole commie scheme has done 1 thing for humanity - separate out those who believe in a global conspiracy from those who don't (or who are controlled opposition).  Those who can't see what's really going on, must feel the pain of being stupid/willfully blind.  At least it's clearer who I can trust and who I can't.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: SeanJohnson on January 05, 2022, 10:12:07 PM
Summary:

Fr. Pagliarani's opening speech lasted 24 minutes.  He spent the first ten minutes building up to the notion that the SSPX has chosen to "step aside" because this is a "medical issue".  Ridiculous.  Medical issues often have moral aspects, take sterilization, or in vitro fertilization, etc.  He implies that this is solely a medical issue.

He talks around the notion of "globalism" but refuses to say that they have an obligation to oppose the Satanic globalist agenda.  He feigns being "above it" by appealing to the "supernatural aspect," namely, that it's a punishment for our sins.  EVERY EVIL is allowed by God as a punishment.  That does not absolve anyone of the obligation to fight and resist it.

He says the SSPX refuse to takes sides because he says that both the anti-jab and the pro-jab sides appear to the false principles of "freedom" and "human rights".  So it's OK for a government to butcher its citizens and wrong to insist that they have a right to live?  Communism can take away the human "right" to private property?  He thereby throws out the entire social teaching of the Popes and dethrones Christ the king, deferring to the Globalists.

And his ONLY mention of abortion in the keynote speech was to actually associate the ANTI-JAB movement with abortion, claiming that they're appealing to "my body my choice" thinking.  NOT ONE WORD in his keynote speech about the abortion tainting of the jab.

In the panel discussion later, he tries to pretend that St. Thomas Aquinas backs his position, rambling around the "remote material cooperation" and wrongly referring to it as "taking advantage" of evils done by others.  Sure, let me go to a car lot selling stolen vehicles to "take advantage" of that.  Is he out of his mind or asleep in seminary or a Satanic infiltrator?  This was so bad that I have come to the conclusion that Pagliarani is a Masonic infiltrator of the SSPX.  He had the gall to tie the anti-jab movement to abortion and ignore the abortion link to the jab in his main / keynote speech.

Finally, he uses the "taking cornea from a person who had been killed example" that actually is a deliberately false metaphor.  And the gaps in his metaphor actually prove more clearly the reasons (1 and 2) above why it's really formal cooperation and a grave sin.

This is so bad that it's of the devil, and I accuse Pagliarani of being a Masonic infiltrator.

If by necessity I ever have to set foot in an SSPX chapel again, they're never getting another dime of collection money out of me.

Hi Lad-

Thanks for the summary.  Your severe judgment is rather breathtaking.  I’m going to withhold comment until tomorrow afternoon, when I’ll have had a chance to listen to it.

Ultimately, I was hoping Fr. Pagliarani would address the 2008 CDF doc  Dignitas Personae (as well as it’s 2020 Note, reaffirming it), but it sounds like that didn’t happen.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Anne Evergreen on January 05, 2022, 10:42:03 PM
Fr. Pagliarani said that it's a question of prudence; Okay but wouldn't it be a mortal sin against the virtue of prudence if a father of a family takes the vaccine knowing that it is dangerous? The father is risking leaving his family without a father.
Bear with me, because I am going on gut instinct here alone and am totally open to feedback on this. I am going to wade into the swamp here, because a lot of this stuff goes over my head, and I have made no bones about it since I got here. But I don't get embarrassed easily by any stretch, so enjoy getting my feet wet and trying to figure out complex ethical issues, etc. 

The way I see it, is that the virtue of Justice would trump prudence. *In this case, I would say that a father may in fact have a duty to take it if it means he can continue to provide for his family, even if that time ends up as short. In other words, nobody knows when they will die, so that father may have died at age 36 anyway, regardless of what he took or not. (NOW, side point: if the person is given a known lethal injection of potassium chloride in sufficient quantity to stop his heart, well, that is different. And yes, it would be stupid for the father to take it, because for sure, 100%, he would know it would stop his heart quickly right then.) 

Carrying on with my first point of the situation, *If he did not take it, and the family starves, then I would say that would be a mortal sin.

It would be another way of saying the father has to be willing to sacrifice his life for his family. I think we are both in the same ballpark, but struggling to grasp it from two different sides of the plate. 

It's kind of like what I was trying to explain to Sean on his other thread. He is a father, and he first owes Justice to HIS family, to provide and protect them in an SHTF scenario, but then additionally, as a Catholic, he owes in justice to help others in that scenario next.

Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Seraphina on January 05, 2022, 11:01:33 PM
Here’s what Fr.Pagliarini needs.:fryingpan:
IOW, don’t look to the SSPX for moral guidance or for support in upholding Catholic morals.

Quite honestly, I know a Baptist minister who is crystal clear in opposing the vaccines and explains it in two concise paragraphs.  He’s given his congregation letters for employers and school authorities.
I also know of an Orthodox rabbi who has taken the same stand. He also provides letters for his congregants.  
Fr. Pagliarini, the SSPX bishops, and a good number of the priests should be ashamed of themselves.  They’ve been shown up by Baptists and Jєωs!  
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Miser Peccator on January 05, 2022, 11:10:58 PM
Bear with me, because I am going on gut instinct here alone and am totally open to feedback on this. I am going to wade into the swamp here, because a lot of this stuff goes over my head, and I have made no bones about it since I got here. But I don't get embarrassed easily by any stretch, so enjoy getting my feet wet and trying to figure out complex ethical issues, etc.

The way I see it, is that the virtue of Justice would trump prudence. *In this case, I would say that a father may in fact have a duty to take it if it means he can continue to provide for his family, even if that time ends up as short. In other words, nobody knows when they will die, so that father may have died at age 36 anyway, regardless of what he took or not. (NOW, side point: if the person is given a known lethal injection of potassium chloride in sufficient quantity to stop his heart, well, that is different. And yes, it would be stupid for the father to take it, because for sure, 100%, he would know it would stop his heart quickly right then.)

Carrying on with my first point of the situation, *If he did not take it, and the family starves, then I would say that would be a mortal sin.

It would be another way of saying the father has to be willing to sacrifice his life for his family. I think we are both in the same ballpark, but struggling to grasp it from two different sides of the plate.

It's kind of like what I was trying to explain to Sean on his other thread. He is a father, and he first owes Justice to HIS family, to provide and protect them in an SHTF scenario, but then additionally, as a Catholic, he owes in justice to help others in that scenario next.


What if they wanted to sodomize you?

Just this once of course.

Okay twice, but that's it...

Promise.

Well, maybe more if needed but it's for the greater good...






We just want to alter your DNA.  Just a little tiny bit.

We just want to perform scientific experiments on your body.

So you and your children can eat.

Join the regime.

2 plus 2 is five.

Say it and your children eat.

Step on the image of Christ.

Just once.

And your children eat.



Don't play games with the Devil.


Even when they tell you it's for the greater good:


1min 52sec
https://www.bitchute.com/video/YHWPuWXqP1A0/






Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: trento on January 05, 2022, 11:39:28 PM
So now he begins to ramble around material remote cooperation, though he never uses the actual phrase, saying instead that it's possible to "take advantage of the evil done by others".

"Take advantage"?  That is NOT the right expression here.

He uses the example of taking a cornea from a person who was "killed" (presumably he means "murdered").

Ridiculous example because --
1) you can only take the cornea if the person indicated a willingness to donate it (vs. the theft of the remains of the aborted baby)
2) you can't do that if they're killing people in order to supply corneas

We're in scenario #2 here and not just a person who happened to be killed.

Then he babbles about he it's OK to take a mosque and convert it into a Catholic Church or eat meat sacrified to idols.  Has absolutely nothing to do with this issue.

If there were an operation where people were going around murdering individuals to provide a supply of corneas, yes indeed it would be formal cooperation in the evil for you to go in and receive that procedure.  This is actually one of the clearest example yet (ironically incorrectly applied to support his position) of why it's evil to get the jab.
I think the problem is the general lumping of all the vax available out there to be using or tested with fetal cells. This is where individual prudence is needed. On scenario #2, what if the recipient of the cornea does not know the source or was told it was taken from a morally acceptable source?

This doesn't seem to be "neoSSPX sellout" issue but on the Thomistic application of material vs formal, passive vs active cooperation in the act of abortion. Didn't the sedevacantist Bishop Sanborn also enunciated on this topic a couple of months ago?
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Nadir on January 06, 2022, 05:41:59 AM

What if they wanted to sodomize you?

Just this once of course.

Okay twice, but that's it...

Promise.

Well, maybe more if needed but it's for the greater good...






We just want to alter your DNA.  Just a little tiny bit.

We just want to perform scientific experiments on your body.

So you and your children can eat.

Join the regime.

2 plus 2 is five.

Say it and your children eat.

Step on the image of Christ.

Just once.

And your children eat.



Don't play games with the Devil.


Even when they tell you it's for the greater good:


1min 52sec
https://www.bitchute.com/video/YHWPuWXqP1A0/
Great post, Miser!
if this doesn’t get the point across, nothing will.

great video, as well.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: s2srea on January 06, 2022, 05:55:41 AM
I listened to the video last night and boy oh boy did I feel like it was listening to a politician. What a bunch of weak words that make me think nothing other than this is a weak man.  I felt like he was so in tune with trying to appease everyone. "I'm not saying the chopped up baby vaccine is good, but who am I to judge."
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Ladislaus on January 06, 2022, 07:45:49 AM
I think the problem is the general lumping of all the vax available out there to be using or tested with fetal cells. This is where individual prudence is needed. On scenario #2, what if the recipient of the cornea does not know the source or was told it was taken from a morally acceptable source?

This doesn't seem to be "neoSSPX sellout" issue but on the Thomistic application of material vs formal, passive vs active cooperation in the act of abortion. Didn't the sedevacantist Bishop Sanborn also enunciated on this topic a couple of months ago?

No, this is absolutely a sellout.  During his keynote speech, he didn't mention the term "abortion" a single time ... but he did allude to it, and, guess what, he tied it to the ANTI-jab people.  It was downright diabolical.

As for his articulation of the material cooperation, he never actually used the term or defined it, but gave a example, using the cornea situation, but the example was absurd and had absolutely no relation to what's actually taking place here.

As for the recipient "not knowing", well, that excuses from personal culpability but has no bearing whatsoever on the objective morality of the act.  That's true of any moral act, where it you don't know, you're subjectively not guilty.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Ladislaus on January 06, 2022, 07:48:50 AM
Bear with me, because I am going on gut instinct here alone and am totally open to feedback on this. I am going to wade into the swamp here, because a lot of this stuff goes over my head, and I have made no bones about it since I got here. But I don't get embarrassed easily by any stretch, so enjoy getting my feet wet and trying to figure out complex ethical issues, etc.

The way I see it, is that the virtue of Justice would trump prudence. *In this case, I would say that a father may in fact have a duty to take it if it means he can continue to provide for his family, even if that time ends up as short. In other words, nobody knows when they will die, so that father may have died at age 36 anyway, regardless of what he took or not. (NOW, side point: if the person is given a known lethal injection of potassium chloride in sufficient quantity to stop his heart, well, that is different. And yes, it would be stupid for the father to take it, because for sure, 100%, he would know it would stop his heart quickly right then.)

Carrying on with my first point of the situation, *If he did not take it, and the family starves, then I would say that would be a mortal sin.

It would be another way of saying the father has to be willing to sacrifice his life for his family. I think we are both in the same ballpark, but struggling to grasp it from two different sides of the plate.

It's kind of like what I was trying to explain to Sean on his other thread. He is a father, and he first owes Justice to HIS family, to provide and protect them in an SHTF scenario, but then additionally, as a Catholic, he owes in justice to help others in that scenario next.

Even Fr. Pagliarani acknowledges that if taking the jab were immoral, the person could not take it even "out of prudence".  That's the first principle of Catholic moral theology, that the ends do not justify the means.  So if it's an evil, you can't do it, even in order to provide for your family.  Then he asserts that taking the jab is "legitimate".  This was not addressed in his main speech but only during the panel Q&A.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Tradman on January 06, 2022, 08:33:09 AM
Then there's the thousands and thousands of vax damages and even death.  Does this seriously misinformed character only watch CNN? 

I had to edit to add this question.  If Pag's opinion were only lack of information, it still isn't an excuse, but because the information is readily available, wouldn't he be guilty of assisted ѕυιcιdє/murder?  Does he seriously not know one single person who died or was injured from the vax?  I don't travel the world and meet thousands of people on a regular basis and I know.  
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Nemmersdorf on January 06, 2022, 08:38:59 AM
 It is scandalous and disgusting!
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Pax Vobis on January 06, 2022, 08:43:07 AM
Quote
*In this case, I would say that a father may in fact have a duty to take it if it means he can continue to provide for his family, even if that time ends up as short.
The problem with this line of thinking is...it's from 2020...a year ago, (at least in America), everything was in lockdown and there was no way to fight back.  Fast forward to today and there are all kinds of lawsuits, and back-pedaling by the govt.  The law is on the anti-jab side; we are winning.  Most states aren't locked down and most companies (outside of the medical industry) a) allow religious exemptions and b) you can get weekly tested instead of the jab.


There is no "life or death or starve" situation anymore.  Fr P totally ignores this and the new-sspx'ers will suffer for it.  If Fr P is an infiltrator, he's probably hoping most of the priests die due to health effects of the clot shot.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Pax Vobis on January 06, 2022, 08:53:29 AM
Quote
Fr. Pagliarani's opening speech lasted 24 minutes.  He spent the first ten minutes building up to the notion that the SSPX has chosen to "step aside" because this is a "medical issue".  Ridiculous.  Medical issues often have moral aspects, take sterilization, or in vitro fertilization, etc.  He implies that this is solely a medical issue.
Thx, Lad, for the summary.  I can't stomach listening to it.  He's either trying to dupe these people or he has the IQ of a newt.

Novak Djokovic, one of the top tennis players in the world, was just denied entry into Australia for one of the biggest tennis events of the year.  The Aussie govt didn't accept his medical exemption.  He was met at the airport, told his exemption didn't suffice and told to go home.  Not only was he not allowed to play tennis, he wasn't allowed inside the country.  These people are psychos!

This is not a medical issue; it's about CONTROL, pure and simple.  It's pre-communism.  If Fr P doesn't, or can't, accept this, then the new-sspx is already lost.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Angelus on January 06, 2022, 08:56:51 AM
As I said above, I think Pagliarani is using sophistic techniques to "soothe" the "itching ears" of his audience. Here is what St. Paul said on the subject (2 Timothy 4):


Quote
1 I charge thee, before God and Jesus Christ, who shall judge the living and the dead, by his coming, and his kingdom: 2 Preach the word: be instant in season, out of season: reprove, entreat, rebuke in all patience and doctrine.  3 For there shall be a time, when they will not endure sound doctrine; but, according to their own desires, they will heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears:  4 And will indeed turn away their hearing from the truth, but will be turned unto fables.  5 But be thou vigilant, labour in all things, do the work of an evangelist, fulfil thy ministry. Be sober.


Listen at 32:50 where Pagliarani uses St. Paul (1 Corinthians 8) to JUSTIFY the vaccines. That discussion of St. Paul uses the example of "eating meat sacrificed to idols," which is what Pagliarani focuses on. But the main point that St. Paul was making was that a Christian cannot do something that will "scandalize" the weaker members of the Body of Christ. Again, "eating meat sacrificed to idols" was just the specific example he used to illustrate the general moral teaching "to avoid scandal."

Pagliarani turns St. Paul's words upside down. With a hand wave, Pagliarani says "scandalizing others is another matter," which he does not bring up again. He focuses only on St. Paul setting up the moral issue by using the example of "eating meat sacrificed to idols." Far from saying that a Christian SHOULD eat, St. Paul says the Christian may eat IF AND ONLY IF it would not cause a scandal for the weaker members.

So to apply St. Paul's reasoning to our situation, using the example of the Covid vaccine, even if the vaccine did not actually contain aborted baby parts (which it does), but some Catholics thought that it did, and we Catholics consumed those vaccines, we would scandalize the consciences of those who thought the vaccines were made with aborted babies. In that case, we must avoid the vaccine to avoid the scandal.

See St. John Chrysostom's commentary on the issue if you are having trouble understanding St. Paul. You can find it here:

https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/220120.htm

The main point is made in the explanations of verses 8:9-8:13 at the bottom of the St. John's commentary.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Tradman on January 06, 2022, 09:14:30 AM
As I said above, I think Pagliarani is using sophistic techniques to "soothe" the "itching ears" of his audience. Here is what St. Paul said on the subject (2 Timothy 4):



Listen at 32:50 where Pagliarani uses St. Paul (1 Corinthians 8) to JUSTIFY the vaccines. That discussion of St. Paul uses the example of "eating meat sacrificed to idols," which is what Pagliarani focuses on. But the main point that St. Paul was making was that a Christian cannot do something that will "scandalize" the weaker members of the Body of Christ. Again, "eating meat sacrificed to idols" was just the specific example he used to illustrate the general moral teaching "to avoid scandal."

Pagliarani turns St. Paul's words upside down. With a hand wave, Pagliarani says "scandalizing others is another matter," which he does not bring up again. He focuses only on St. Paul setting up the moral issue by using the example of "eating meat sacrificed to idols." Far from saying that a Christian SHOULD eat, St. Paul says the Christian may eat IF AND ONLY IF it would not cause a scandal for the weaker members.

So to apply St. Paul's reasoning to our situation, using the example of the Covid vaccine, even if the vaccine did not actually contain aborted baby parts (which it does), but some Catholics thought that it did, and we Catholics consumed those vaccines, we would scandalize the consciences of those who thought the vaccines were made with aborted babies. In that case, we must avoid the vaccine to avoid the scandal.

See St. John Chrysostom's commentary on the issue if you are having trouble understanding St. Paul. You can find it here:

https://www.newadvent.org/fathers/220120.htm

The main point is made in the explanations of verses 8:9-8:13 at the bottom of the St. John's commentary.
This is a great point because scandal is a relatively light weight sin compared to eating meat sacrificed to idols because one is a sin against man and the other is a sin against God.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Pax Vobis on January 06, 2022, 09:21:34 AM
Scandal can be just as grave as the matter in question.  The example of "sacrificing to idols" would be 2 grave sins - one of violating the 1st commandment, and the second of scandalizing one's neighbor to do the same.  This is why, even when roman officials told Christians to "tell everyone" they sacrificed (even when they didn't), that this would be the same level of serious sin.  Because scandal is just as serious as the actual crime.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Confiteor Deo on January 06, 2022, 10:24:29 AM
I wish Catholics wouldn't focus so much on the abortion tainted injection question. (((They))) can so easily overcome this by bringing out a new shot with no connection to aborted babies and then Catholics will have no excuse not to take it.

The reason not to take it, is that the covidian circus is a lie and to take the injection is a public acknowledgement of that lie. That, should be enough for any Catholic or reasonable person to refuse the shot, even if it were just a saline solution and even if the government was giving out fake vaccination certificates.

I suspect that the reason Sweden was spared from the covidian circus, is that the swedes are pretty much OK with a being chipped and marked for the upcoming cashless slave regime.

 

Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Last Tradhican on January 06, 2022, 10:44:54 AM
I wish Catholics wouldn't focus so much on the abortion tainted injection question. (((They))) can so easily overcome this by bringing out a new shot with no connection to aborted babies and then Catholics will have no excuse not to take it.

The reason not to take it, is that the covidian circus is a lie and to take the injection is a public acknowledgement of that lie. That, should be enough for any Catholic or reasonable person to refuse the shot, even if it were just a saline solution and even if the government was giving out fake vaccination certificates.

I suspect that the reason Sweden was spared from the covidian circus, is that the swedes are pretty much OK with a being chipped and marked for the upcoming cashless slave regime.

 
I concur 100%. It is all there.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Miser Peccator on January 06, 2022, 12:41:42 PM
I wish Catholics wouldn't focus so much on the abortion tainted injection question. (((They))) can so easily overcome this by bringing out a new shot with no connection to aborted babies and then Catholics will have no excuse not to take it.

The reason not to take it, is that the covidian circus is a lie and to take the injection is a public acknowledgement of that lie. That, should be enough for any Catholic or reasonable person to refuse the shot, even if it were just a saline solution and even if the government was giving out fake vaccination certificates.

I suspect that the reason Sweden was spared from the covidian circus, is that the swedes are pretty much OK with a being chipped and marked for the upcoming cashless slave regime.

 


This is true.

Unfortunately there is much more to understanding why they want to inject many, many shots into the entire world population.

Clearly it's not about stopping infection or transmission.

So why?


This is directed evolution.


Pfizer CEO calls its jab ‘gene editing,’ exposes his clear belief in eugenics

Pfizer CEO Albert Bourla had an hour-long interview on Tuesday with Frederick Kemp of the Atlantic Council in which he calls mRNA shots a “gene editing,” which is an admission the mRNA jabs are not vaccines. Bourla also claims that scientists can “repair the mistakes” in DNA, or in other words they can play God.

https://thelibertyloft.com/2021/11/10/opinion-pfizer-ceo-calls-its-jab-gene-editing-exposes-his-clear-belief-in-eugenics/



(We are giving them permission to genetically alter the entire human race.)


“Eugenics is the practice or advocacy of improving the human species by selectively mating people with specific desirable hereditary traits. It aims to reduce human suffering by ‘breeding out’ disease, disabilities and so-called undesirable characteristics from the human population. Early supporters of eugenics believed people inherited mental illness, criminal tendencies and even poverty, and that these conditions could be bred out of the gene pool,”


“Gene drives are a gene-editing application that allows genetic engineers to drive a single artificial trait through an entire population by ensuring that all of an organism’s offspring carry that trait. For example, recent experiments are fitting mice with ‘daughterless’ gene drives that will cascade through mouse populations so that only male pups are born, ensuring that the population becomes extinct after a few generations,”


 

(Note from Miser:  They can choose which characteristics they want to enhance or delete from humanity and Bourla just like the leaders at the NIH and the WEF make it very clear they intend to do just that.  I have posted several videos of their very clear statements.  They are excited to now have "write level permissions" to use the "plug and play" operating system the Moderna website brags about.)




Also, edited genes are patentable:

US Supreme Court Says Synthetic Genes Are Patentable, Naturally Occurring Genes Are Not

"However, the court also upheld patents of synthetically created genes, known as complementary DNA or cDNA. "

https://singularityhub.com/2013/06/17/us-supreme-court-says-synthetic-genes-are-patentable-naturally-occurring-genes-are-not/



How do you create complementary DNA (cDNA)??
By using mRNA.

How is mRNA converted to cDNA?
Reverse Transcription PCR

First, the enzyme reverse transcriptase uses the mRNA template to produce a complementary single-stranded DNA strand called cDNA in a process known as reverse transcription. Next, DNA polymerase is used to convert the single-stranded cDNA into double-stranded DNA.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/topics/neuroscience/reverse-transcription-polymerase-chain-reaction

This medical paper confirms it:


Reverse-transcribed SARS-CoV-2 RNA can integrate into the genome of cultured human cells and can be expressed in patient-derived tissues


https://www.pnas.org/content/118/21/e2105968118




Why can't they understand this? 

We have to protect the children.




Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: SeanJohnson on January 06, 2022, 01:28:50 PM
I wish Catholics wouldn't focus so much on the abortion tainted injection question. (((They))) can so easily overcome this by bringing out a new shot with no connection to aborted babies and then Catholics will have no excuse not to take it.

The reason not to take it, is that the covidian circus is a lie and to take the injection is a public acknowledgement of that lie. That, should be enough for any Catholic or reasonable person to refuse the shot, even if it were just a saline solution and even if the government was giving out fake vaccination certificates.

I suspect that the reason Sweden was spared from the covidian circus, is that the swedes are pretty much OK with a being chipped and marked for the upcoming cashless slave regime.

 


For me, the reasons not to take the jab rank thusly:

1) Abortion-tainted;

2) Scandal wounds the credibility of the Church;

3) Violation of natural law;

4) Danger to health;

5) Prepares the terrain for the Antichrist;

6) Complicity in a lie for personal advantage/convenience is dishonorable.

Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Clarinha on January 06, 2022, 01:53:50 PM
The SSPX wants to remain neutral, so they omit and ignore that babies born alive were sacrificed to create the clot shot. If the aborted fetal cell issue was mentioned, neutrality in their position could not be maintained. 

They have lost their way. Unfortunately. 
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Pax Vobis on January 06, 2022, 02:22:36 PM
Quote
For me, the reasons not to take the jab rank thusly:

1) Abortion-tainted;

2) Scandal wounds the credibility of the Church;

3) Violation of natural law;

4) Danger to health;

5) Prepares the terrain for the Antichrist;

6) Complicity in a lie for personal advantage/convenience is dishonorable.
These are good but I'd rank them differently:

1a.  Abortion-tainted
1b.  Violation of freedom, which if lost to govt, means the entire Church system (mass/sacraments) is in jeopardy.  Loss of freedom = loss of Church.  This is proved by history and what happened (for a short time) in 2020 at the start of this mess.

All the other reasons are subordinate to these 2.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Ladislaus on January 06, 2022, 02:38:50 PM
1) abortion -- part of a Satanic sacrament (attempting to get everyone to participate in their child sacrifice industry)
2) NWO program to assert control with the ultimate end of destroying the Church and increasing the hold of Satan over the world, paving the way for Antichrist
3) intentional program of genocide and population reduction

These all go hand in hand.

Concerns about health stem from #3.

Fr. Pagliarani spun the desire to rebel against #2 as if it were an illegitimate Modernist aspiration to "freedom" and "human rights".  Human rights vis-a-vis a government do exist.  Governments do not have the right to butcher their population.

All this stove dovetails together and Pagliarani deceiptfully decomposed them into separate concerns.

He's aiding and abetting the Satanic nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr.  He was acting like a bigger pusillanimous coward than even +Fellay ever was.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: B from A on January 06, 2022, 03:12:22 PM
:popcorn:  I like the recent posts, trying to succinctly summarize reasons not to take the jαb.  I think I like Ladislaus' best so far.


1) abortion -- part of a Satanic sacrament (attempting to get everyone to participate in their child sacrifice industry)
2) NWO program to assert control with the ultimate end of destroying the Church and increasing the hold of Satan over the world, paving the way for Antichrist
3) intentional program of genocide and population reduction

These all go hand in hand.

Concerns about health stem from #3.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Ladislaus on January 06, 2022, 04:36:13 PM
Fr. Pagliarani actually did give the anti-vax moral position a significant weapon by way of his cornea analogy.

He argued that it's acceptable to use the cornea from a person who was "killed" (probably meant "killed" in the sense of "murdered").

But if the person indicates on his donor card that he does NOT wish to be an organ donor, is it still permitted, Father?  Is it permitted to steal his remains against his wishes?  This is the argument made by Father Ripperger.  That it's unlawful possession (theft) of someone else's remains against their will.

Secondly, let's say there's a clinic down in Tijuana that puts out contracts to the drug lords to kill people off and bring their bodies in right away for organ transplants.

Is it permissible to go down to said clinic and get a cornea from one of those bodies?  Of course not.  You are participating in an immoral enterprise.  You can't just say, "well, I don't agree with their murder operations" so it's OK for me to go get a cornea.  This is the argument made by Archbishop Vigano, and Bishop Williamson agrees with it.  Or it's like buying a car from a car lot where they specilize in stolen vehicles.  By paricipating in their immoral enterprises (either the Tijuana clinic or the stolen car dealer), you're actually a CAUSE of their immoral activity by giving them the motive or incentive, the final cause for their activity.  By your going down there, you're incentivizing them to kill even more people for organs.

Neither one of these scenarios can be rightly classified as remote material participation.  Taking the cornea from a murder victim who designates on his donor card that he wishes to be an organ donor, that is in fact remote material cooperation.  But that is NOT what's happening here.  What's happening here is like the other two scenarios combined that I mentioned.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: SeanJohnson on January 06, 2022, 05:09:10 PM
Well, I listened to the speech, but tuned out of the Q&A with 4 minutes to go...

At about 9 minutes, Fr. Pagliarani addresses the vaccine question within the context of the SSPX's mission, and in doing so, he makes a distinction between moral issues, and medical issues.  He says that because the issue of the vaccine is a medical issue, it is not relavent to the SSPX's mission, and therefore the SSPX is staying silent on the matter.  See especially at 11:20.

There are (at least) two obvious problems with that approach:

1) Many medical issues are inextricably intertwined with moral considerations. 

Just as in civil life, there are matters proper to secular authority, and others proper to ecclesiastical authority (hence the doctrine of the two swords), so too are there mixed matters, in which the interests of both secular and ecclesiastical authority are present (e.g., divorce, gαy marriage, etc), and hence the doctrine of the "indirect power" of the Church.  In such cases, the ecclesiastical authority prevails, precisely because spiritual interests and issues are more pressing than secular.

Same thing with the distinction -legitimate in itself- between medical and ecclesiastical issues: Some things are purely one or the other, but in matters which overlap, it is certainly appropriate and necessary for the Church to govern, and in fact, it always has, on a countless number of issues (e.g., ectopic pregnancies, end of life issues, abortion, and now abortion-tainted vaccines; assisted ѕυιcιdє/euthanasia, etc.). 

Because Fr. Pagliarani is certainly aware of these mixed medical-moral issues, I am at a loss to understand how he can excuse the Society from guiding souls under the pretext that the matter of the vaccine is not pertinent to the mission of the Society.


2) There is also the blatant contradiction between the position of Fr. Pagliarani refusing to address the morality of the vaccine on the basis of it not being pertinent to the mission of the SSPX, and the former practice of that same SSPX, whose websites, Angelus magazine, books, interviews, conferences, and other communications are replete with moral direction on an entire host of medical-moral issues.  A cursory glance at the old SSPX.org archived website reveals articles directing souls in the matter of brain death, organ harvesting, stem cell research, pain prevention, euthanasia, and even abortion-tainted vaccines: http://archives.sspx.org/articles_index.htm

In light of the SSPX's former per se ban on receiving abortion-tainted vaccines (and declaring that the faithful would have the moral obligation to refuse them, even if state mandates required them for school enrollment), I am at a loss as to understand why the matter of medical-moral issues was once pertinent to the SSPX mission, but apparently today somehow no longer is.

Even today, the SSPX writes in favor of the alleged moral liceity of the covid serum, but it could not do so if it really believed that such matters were beyond the scope or competence of its mission.  And that being the case, I can only conclude that Fr. Pagliarani preferred to sidestep the matter.

A bit later, Fr. Pagliarani addresses the globalist aspect of the Plannedemic, warning us not to focus too intently upon it, because if we do so, we will miss all the other gains the enemy makes (for example, in the area of passing gαy marriage rights, etc.).  But he seems not to notice that battle is already lost.  He also seems to suggest that battles cannot be fought on more than one front.  But regardless of all that, what soldier or general would take their eyes off the most immediate and dangerous threat, to pay attention to a field which is already overrun (i.e., gαy marriage)?  The COVID scam is not yet lost, and this is most certainly where our fates (and the fates of our children) are being decided at the present moment:

Aside from purely spiritual matters (prayer, sacraments, grace, etc.), this mixed moral issue of the vaccine mandates and covid passports (which violate the natural law) is assuredly THE battle of our times: It is a battle against the establishment of the kingdom of the Antichrist, the eradication of our Catholic religion, the slaughter of the unborn, and the fight to maintain any semblance of Christian morality on the planet.

If Fr. Pagliarani does not see it that way, then I suspect he is missing more of his audience than he is aware (despite the polite smiles, docility, and handshakes).

Finally, his linkage of the pro and anti-vax parties by a common principle (liberty for its own sake) required a further distinction which he seems to have overlookedmissed:

Yes, it is true that there are those in the pro and anti-vax crowds who are opposing the prison planet in order to protect freedom for its own sake.  Nevertheless, this is not a reason to dismiss opposition outright!  For example, rather than doing that, Archbishop Vigano preferred to remind his audience in a recent conference that freedom gained for its own sake is meaningless without reference to God and his Church.  Fr. Pagliarani could have done so as well.  Instead, he seems to overlook the fact that there are many among the anti-vax side who are fighting for Christ the King, not some mere Masonic veneration of liberty. 

Regarding liberty properly understood (i.e., the moral power to do good), it is a precondition for the reign of Christ the King, because given liberty, the Kingship of Christ has a chance to take root and spread, but this is not possible in an authoritarian nєω ωσrℓ∂ σr∂єr.  I would have expected Fr. Pagliarani to have understood that, and in fact, I believe he does.  It is therefore inexplicable to understand why he links the two together, only to dismiss opposition to the globalists as though it were unimportant, or an extremely tertiary concern.

On the whole, the entire conference seemed like one long evasion.


Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Anne Evergreen on January 06, 2022, 05:35:47 PM
Thanks Gentlemen for your patience in answering my posts (in no particular order), Sean, Pax, Lad. Any other fellows I missed. Mark? (I think that was the other threads). Most appreciated and Happy Epiphany!

Sean--your article was basically what I was looking for. Pax--Thanks, but I am in Canada and things are quite a bit different for a number of reasons, but I am glad your lawsuits are working, etc. Lad--The one response about clarifying prudence over justice goes along with Sean's post/article.

Yeah, definitely not into the whole Priest-bashing bit at all from anyone, male or female. There seems to be an awful lot of that that happens on this forum, and there is another thread that is just reeking of it as well. I can only imagine how many others that are like that. :-( :'(

That is definitely a danger to my spiritual life, and so I will be taking better care not to post to threads where it happens. Lord, have mercy on me!

In my half-slumber this morning, I clicked on a bad link from here and it messed up my computer. So I will not be checking out anymore YTube links, etc. (Thanks anyway, ladies.-Yeah, not really into clicking on links where the people ask for money either. LOL. Scammers. Grifters. Con-men.)

That's pretty much it for this thread. Lost interest in reading anything else here today except a couple of lighter and happier posts about music, the Twelve Days of Christmas, etc. Oh, I really liked the post from the person about Father John Hardon--his picture caught my eye. He reminds me and looks similar to Saint Andre--a wonderful Canadian Saint and one of our favourites.

Happy Epiphany all! If anyone wants to come and play in the snow, it might do you a world of good. ;) Fantastic exercise, lots of fun, and super productive to dig out the driveway, clear off the vehicles, and snow blower out everything. Hubster and I had a ball, and a lot of the neighbours were out doing the same. We were all chatting and bellyaching good-naturedly, and laughing. One big snow shoveling party. FUN! 

There's a whack of snowbanks everywhere about 15' high! Came in, had some soup, chalked the door for Epiphany, and had some Pannetone. God is good! His creation is amazing! You can't enjoy it if you are online all the time, just sayin.' But whatever floats your boat. It would be really boring in life if we were all the same. ;)

Later Y'all! Off to listen to some beautiful Christmas music. Without peace in my soul, nothing else matters. I sadly don't seem to find that uplifting joy to help maintain it too often reading these boards. I am grateful for my amazing and patient husband, all of my crosses, and all of my blessings, and a few wonderful real-life friends, even if they are hours away.
God bless, Anne

P.S. Be assured of my prayers. :-) Sorry I screwed up the font again, lol. 

Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on January 06, 2022, 05:52:56 PM
Here’s what Fr.Pagliarini needs.:fryingpan:
IOW, don’t look to the SSPX for moral guidance or for support in upholding Catholic morals.

Quite honestly, I know a Baptist minister who is crystal clear in opposing the vaccines and explains it in two concise paragraphs.  He’s given his congregation letters for employers and school authorities.
I also know of an Orthodox rabbi who has taken the same stand. He also provides letters for his congregants. 
Fr. Pagliarini, the SSPX bishops, and a good number of the priests should be ashamed of themselves.  They’ve been shown up by Baptists and Jєωs!  Yes
Yes, I agree.  Sspx hierarchy is lukewarm.  We do have Brave SSPX priests who been fighting jabs mandated jabs before covid and during. Were they invited to speak??? They won in court too.  Good priests like them need our prayers. Prayers also for brave Baptist ministers and Jєωιѕн rabbis who fight against the demonic jab. 




Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on January 06, 2022, 06:31:12 PM
Yes, it is very immoral to take covid jabs.  
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on January 06, 2022, 06:34:29 PM
Thanks Gentlemen for your patience in answering my posts (in no particular order), Sean, Pax, Lad. Any other fellows I missed. Mark? (I think that was the other threads). Most appreciated and Happy Epiphany!

Sean--your article was basically what I was looking for. Pax--Thanks, but I am in Canada and things are quite a bit different for a number of reasons, but I am glad your lawsuits are working, etc. Lad--The one response about clarifying prudence over justice goes along with Sean's post/article.

Yeah, definitely not into the whole Priest-bashing bit at all from anyone, male or female. There seems to be an awful lot of that that happens on this forum, and there is another thread that is just reeking of it as well. I can only imagine how many others that are like that. :-( :'(

That is definitely a danger to my spiritual life, and so I will be taking better care not to post to threads where it happens. Lord, have mercy on me!

In my half-slumber this morning, I clicked on a bad link from here and it messed up my computer. So I will not be checking out anymore YTube links, etc. (Thanks anyway, ladies.-Yeah, not really into clicking on links where the people ask for money either. LOL. Scammers. Grifters. Con-men.)

That's pretty much it for this thread. Lost interest in reading anything else here today except a couple of lighter and happier posts about music, the Twelve Days of Christmas, etc. Oh, I really liked the post from the person about Father John Hardon--his picture caught my eye. He reminds me and looks similar to Saint Andre--a wonderful Canadian Saint and one of our favourites.

Happy Epiphany all! If anyone wants to come and play in the snow, it might do you a world of good. ;) Fantastic exercise, lots of fun, and super productive to dig out the driveway, clear off the vehicles, and snow blower out everything. Hubster and I had a ball, and a lot of the neighbours were out doing the same. We were all chatting and bellyaching good-naturedly, and laughing. One big snow shoveling party. FUN! 

There's a whack of snowbanks everywhere about 15' high! Came in, had some soup, chalked the door for Epiphany, and had some Pannetone. God is good! His creation is amazing! You can't enjoy it if you are online all the time, just sayin.' But whatever floats your boat. It would be really boring in life if we were all the same. ;)

Later Y'all! Off to listen to some beautiful Christmas music. Without peace in my soul, nothing else matters. I sadly don't seem to find that uplifting joy to help maintain it too often reading these boards. I am grateful for my amazing and patient husband, all of my crosses, and all of my blessings, and a few wonderful real-life friends, even if they are hours away.
God bless, Anne

P.S. Be assured of my prayers. :-) Sorry I screwed up the font again, lol.
Yes, today is the Epiphany which is Feast of the Three Kings.  
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: josefamenendez on January 06, 2022, 06:54:18 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y8G0JrGOdxE

Shame that the Consiliar Bishop Schneider gets it and Fr Pagliarani does not
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: SeanJohnson on January 06, 2022, 09:03:40 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/g7R3weV.jpg)
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Ladislaus on January 06, 2022, 09:17:53 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/g7R3weV.jpg)

Here's a study out of the Big Ten where they found that 50% of their top athletes showed signs of myocarditis on MRIs.  People are going to be dropping of heart attacks and strokes with increasing frequency the next few years.

https://wethepundit.com/wow-cardiac-mri-of-the-elite-athletes-around-50-had-myocarditis-that-wasnt-known-by-symptoms/
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: trento on January 07, 2022, 12:24:07 AM
Yes, I agree.  Sspx hierarchy is lukewarm.  We do have Brave SSPX priests who been fighting jabs mandated jabs before covid and during. Were they invited to speak??? They won in court too.  Good priests like them need our prayers. Prayers also for brave Baptist ministers and Jєωιѕн rabbis who fight against the demonic jab.
I think you conveniently forgot that the the priests who won the court cases fought on the basis of the US Constitution on religious freedom.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Last Tradhican on January 07, 2022, 04:18:54 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/g7R3weV.jpg)
At the bottom it says the source is from 2006, which is impossible. what is the source?
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: SeanJohnson on January 07, 2022, 06:16:16 AM
At the bottom it says the source is from 2006, which is impossible. what is the source?

The source regards the myocarditis stats, not the jab mortality timetable.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: DustyActual on January 07, 2022, 09:51:29 AM
I think you conveniently forgot that the the priests who won the court cases fought on the basis of the US Constitution on religious freedom
The priests reject religious liberty but they were using the constitution to argue against closing the churches. They were not accepting religious liberty in principle.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Last Tradhican on January 07, 2022, 09:54:33 AM
The source regards the myocarditis stats, not the jab mortality timetable.
What is the link where you got it?
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: SeanJohnson on January 07, 2022, 09:57:31 AM
No link; the meme was emailed to me.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Ladislaus on January 07, 2022, 10:11:05 AM
I think you conveniently forgot that the the priests who won the court cases fought on the basis of the US Constitution on religious freedom.

Seems as if Fr. Pagliarani forgot that as well when he denounced the appeals to religious freedom.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Ladislaus on January 07, 2022, 10:13:00 AM
The priests reject religious liberty but they were using the constitution to argue against closing the churches. They were not accepting religious liberty in principle.

But those Catholic who resist the jab can't also appeal to principles of "rights" and "freedom" in order to assert their freedom from coercion to receive the jab?  Father Pagliarani is completely off-base here.  People do in fact have certain rights under natural law.  Governments don't have the right to genocide people and force them to take a potentially-lethal jab.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Last Tradhican on January 07, 2022, 10:18:59 AM
From another thread:


Quote
Italy Mandates Vax for All 50+
Austria is making vaccines obligatory for the over-14s from February, while Germany is planning to introduce a vaccine mandate for adults.
I wonder what the SSPX is going to do and say now in those countries? The solution to this chastisement is spiritual. Until a certain number of Catholics return to God (God knows how many?) and LIVE the Faith, all this NWO enslavement and population culling will not be abated. The SSPX has the power to lead this fight, but as of today, they are impotent.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on January 07, 2022, 11:00:21 AM
(https://i.imgur.com/70T5Mb5.jpg)
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on January 07, 2022, 11:02:12 AM


Douay-Rheims Bible (https://www.biblehub.com/drb/genesis/3.htm)
I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel. 
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: DustyActual on January 07, 2022, 11:20:01 AM
But those Catholic who resist the jab can't also appeal to principles of "rights" and "freedom" in order to assert their freedom from coercion to receive the jab?  Father Pagliarani is completely off-base here.  People do in fact have certain rights under natural law.  Governments don't have the right to genocide people and force them to take a potentially-lethal jab.
I agree.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Incredulous on January 07, 2022, 02:35:00 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/70T5Mb5.jpg)
Why is Our Lady's little foot on his head ?




Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Ladislaus on January 07, 2022, 03:45:03 PM
Why is Our Lady's little foot on his head ?






That's another proof that the earth is a globe.  :laugh1:   ... sorry, couldn't resist.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Cornelius935 on January 14, 2022, 04:30:43 PM
Fr. Chazal has written about Fr. Pagliarani's mess on the Reconquista site here:

https://cristiadatradicinalista.blogspot.com/2022/01/vaccin-la-fsspx-prefere-se-mettre-lecart.html?m=1

It'd be great if someone could provide a proper translation.
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on January 15, 2022, 02:23:22 AM
And I prayed a Rosary for Father Pagliarani last night before bed. 
Title: Re: Fr. Pagliarani addresses the covid vaccine question
Post by: Incredulous on January 15, 2022, 08:27:26 PM

I listened to the first 15 seconds: 

“…eet’s a complicated issue…”

:facepalm:


Not true. It’s a very straightforward, issue:

Catholics do not allow themselves to be injected with deaths serums procured by ʝʊdɛօ-masonic governments.

But this video still has some value:

It was a pulse reading on where the SSPX is at.

It demonstrated that the SSPX’s allegiance to the world is growing stronger.

There’s been sufficient time and enough injection related  deaths to discern that Covid is a global genocide.

So, thank you Fr. Pagliarani, for giving us an update on the continued demise of the Society of St. Pope Pius X.