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Author Topic: SSPX Superior-General: "I didnt mean to say Pope is a Modernist in theolog  (Read 5250 times)

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Offline John Anthony

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SSPX Superior-General: "I didnt mean to say Pope is a Modernist in theolog
« Reply #30 on: December 05, 2013, 05:27:02 PM »
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  • Pascendi offers among other things a world-class philosophical analysis of modernism.

    At the time, many modernists claimed that it didn't apply to them, and in a sense they were right.  It was a far more coherent account than many of them had produced, or were capable of producing.

    But there were some, like Loisy and Tyrell, who made themselves quite clear.  These were the ones who were excommunicated.

    The modernist movement was and is like any other movement.  Some knew exactly what they were about theoretically.  Some had a more limited grasp.  Some hadn't a clue, and never got beyond the buzzwords.

    The Holy Father is not dumb, but he's not intellectual.  There are many people like that.  They think and act based on slogans that capture only a part -- and often a mangled part -- of the whole picture.

    The Resistance, from the greatest even unto the least, practically to a man, is rather like that.

    Effectively, it considers thought and prudence the enemies of true religion.

    The only way you can be safe from modernism is to denounce, and denounce, and denounce, from a safe distance.  

    Bishop Williamson more than once has talked as if love were also one of the enemies.  Is the thought that if we loved our enemies, we might get too close to them, and be corrupted?

    Jesus, meek and humble of heart, does not seem to have a place in the Resistance.

    It is hard to see how the Resistance could ever go forth and teach all nations, because that would expose the evangelists to being poisoned by the world of unbelievers which vastly outnumbers it.

    For the Resistance, Our Lord in Matthew 28:20 is instructing the disciples to endanger their faith.  

    For the Resistance, St. Paul on the Areopagus was endangering his faith.

    The only safe thing for a Resistant to do is to denounce Bishop Fellay from a safe distance.  

    The Resistance is very much like the man who buried his talent.

    Some months ago, my SSPX priest son expressed a real concern that the Resistance was going to lead some people into Hell.

    At the time, I thought that this was a bit much.

    Now I'm not so sure.

     


    Offline JPaul

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    SSPX Superior-General: "I didnt mean to say Pope is a Modernist in theolog
    « Reply #31 on: December 05, 2013, 07:06:17 PM »
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  • John Anthony,
    Quote

    Effectively, it considers thought and prudence the enemies of true religion.





    You are correct when you are referring to thought which is modernist and fuzzy and prudence which is born of human expediency.

    For example the debilitated thinking which could cause someone to author the Doctrinal Declaration of 2012 and then deny its plain meaning by claiming that others do not understand its nuances.
    Or, the worldly prudence which inspires one to join with the Jews to condemn a Catholic while supporting their insidious lies so as to be on the right side of human opinion.


    Offline Mithrandylan

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    SSPX Superior-General: "I didnt mean to say Pope is a Modernist in theolog
    « Reply #32 on: December 05, 2013, 08:15:18 PM »
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  • Here is tradblogs take on this interview: http://tradblogs.blogspot.com/2013/12/from-menzingen-new-interview-with.html

    Excerpt:

    Quote
    The most difficult thing to stomach is that Fellay is making it abundantly clear that he has no idea what a modernist is (or if he does, he refuses to recognize it)! This is the superior general of the world's largest traditional priestly society, named after the hammer of modernists, and he couldn't pick one out if one whispered in his ear.


    In the blog post, it is highlighted how this interview, besides everything else it is, contradicts itself multiple times.  At least based on what he says in it, Fellay seems to have no idea what he's talking about.
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    SSPX Superior-General: "I didnt mean to say Pope is a Modernist in theolog
    « Reply #33 on: December 05, 2013, 08:21:08 PM »
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  • Quote from: John Anthony
    Pascendi offers among other things a world-class philosophical analysis of modernism.

    At the time, many modernists claimed that it didn't apply to them, and in a sense they were right.  It was a far more coherent account than many of them had produced, or were capable of producing.

    But there were some, like Loisy and Tyrell, who made themselves quite clear.  These were the ones who were excommunicated.

    The modernist movement was and is like any other movement.  Some knew exactly what they were about theoretically.  Some had a more limited grasp.  Some hadn't a clue, and never got beyond the buzzwords.

    The Holy Father is not dumb, but he's not intellectual.  There are many people like that.  They think and act based on slogans that capture only a part -- and often a mangled part -- of the whole picture.

    The Resistance, from the greatest even unto the least, practically to a man, is rather like that.

    Effectively, it considers thought and prudence the enemies of true religion.

    The only way you can be safe from modernism is to denounce, and denounce, and denounce, from a safe distance.  

    Bishop Williamson more than once has talked as if love were also one of the enemies.  Is the thought that if we loved our enemies, we might get too close to them, and be corrupted?

    Jesus, meek and humble of heart, does not seem to have a place in the Resistance.

    It is hard to see how the Resistance could ever go forth and teach all nations, because that would expose the evangelists to being poisoned by the world of unbelievers which vastly outnumbers it.

    For the Resistance, Our Lord in Matthew 28:20 is instructing the disciples to endanger their faith.  

    For the Resistance, St. Paul on the Areopagus was endangering his faith.

    The only safe thing for a Resistant to do is to denounce Bishop Fellay from a safe distance.  

    The Resistance is very much like the man who buried his talent.

    Some months ago, my SSPX priest son expressed a real concern that the Resistance was going to lead some people into Hell.

    At the time, I thought that this was a bit much.

    Now I'm not so sure.

     



    Hello John-

    I understand the point you are trying to make, but while admitting there is a kernel of truth to what you say, nevertheless think you are overstating the case a bit.

    Perhaps, like Bishop Williamson, that is your method, in order to ensure the moral of your story is what lasts, while modern televised man lacks the ability to retain the details.

    But for all that, the resistance has played a beneficial part in keeping the SSPX from total implosion.

    But for the resistance, you and your son would all be slow-boiled within the Conciliar religion.

    Bishop Fellay thanks God his plans were foiled by Our Lady (as does Bishop Tissier).

    My point being that both sides of this controversy have said and done things which have caused me to question their motives:

    For the resistance, all that matters is promoting the resistance.

    For the SSPX, all that matters is the SSPX.

    Both would deny that claim, and yet their actions (if we are to judge the contradiction between their party lines and objective reality) seem to bare that out, despite the subjective intentions of various individuals in those parties.

    One only need refer to Fr. Pfeiffer's "Two Popes" theory, or to Fr. Le Roux's solipsistic November "Letter to Friends and Benefactors" to understand my point.

    I say the SSPX is not totally sunk, but there is plenty there to be leery of.

    Neither is the resistance completely off-base in its criticisms (in fact, most are on target).

    But both lack the theological purity one would expect from supposedly rigorously orthodox Catholic movements.


    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Incredulous

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    SSPX Superior-General: "I didnt mean to say Pope is a Modernist in theolog
    « Reply #34 on: December 06, 2013, 12:08:23 AM »
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  • Quote from: SeanJohnson
    Quote from: Neil Obstat
    Quote from: SeanJohnson
    ...

    He seems to be at the mercy of his own weakness, and his desire to be loved in Rome is unhealthy for the SSPX (as his letter to the Three Bishops made abundantly clear).

    This kind of backtracking hurts his credibility amongst his own people.



    So.... lemmie guess:  you'd prefer a DIFFERENT KIND of backtracking??


    Quote
    Your Excellency: How do you expect to maintain the support of those like me, who are trying to give you the benefit of the doubt and a second, third, and fourth chance, in the face of interviews like this?

    ...


    The Great One has plenty of lemmings.  They're coming out his ears!  

    They're a dime a dozen.  He gets all the support he needs from his lemmings.  And if you don't like it, Sean, they'll just expel you and/or forbid you the sacraments and you can just go home, okay?


    Otherwise, certainly you can find it in your bag of tricks to cut him some more slack.  All he needs is another free ride -- I mean, benefit of the doubt from you and swarming masses of others like you, Sean.


    There's plenty more where you came from.


    Remember:  Make "practical agreement" your WATCHWORD!!


    You can DO it!        :wink:

    .


    Neil-

    You are the biggest bag of hot air on Cathinfo.

    Despite thousands of posts, the only originality you can muster is to change font and font color.

    I have yet to see a single contribution you have made to the Church in all your worthless bluster.

    Perhaps your time would be better spent parsing the local newspaper to the editor?

    You are the most boring person I have ever come across online.


    Wow Sean... you emotional, uncharitable a-hole.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Neil Obstat

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    SSPX Superior-General: "I didnt mean to say Pope is a Modernist in theolog
    « Reply #35 on: December 06, 2013, 01:53:18 AM »
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  • Quote from: Incredulous
    Quote from: SeanJohnson

    Blah, blah, blah...



    Wow Sean... you emotional, uncharitable *-h*le.


    It's okay, Incred.  He's just making himself AND his 'position' look as bad as it is.

    During an exorcism, the demons come out howling.

    This is to be expected.


    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    SSPX Superior-General: "I didnt mean to say Pope is a Modernist in theolog
    « Reply #36 on: December 06, 2013, 02:18:19 AM »
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  • .

    In a manner of speaking, here is another one...
    (another howling demon being exorcised)...


    Quote from: John Anthony
    Pascendi offers among other things a world-class philosophical analysis of modernism.

    At the time, many modernists claimed that it didn't apply to them, and in a sense they were right.  It was a far more coherent account than many of them had produced, or were capable of producing.

    But there were some, like Loisy and Tyrell, who made themselves quite clear.  These were the ones who were excommunicated.

    The modernist movement was and is like any other movement.  Some knew exactly what they were about theoretically.  Some had a more limited grasp.  Some hadn't a clue, and never got beyond the buzzwords.

    The Holy Father is not dumb, but he's not intellectual.  There are many people like that.  They think and act based on slogans that capture only a part -- and often a mangled part -- of the whole picture.

    The Resistance, from the greatest even unto the least, practically to a man, is rather like that.

    Effectively, it considers thought and prudence the enemies of true religion.

    The only way you can be safe from modernism is to denounce, and denounce, and denounce, from a safe distance.  

    Bishop Williamson more than once has talked as if love were also one of the enemies.  Is the thought that if we loved our enemies, we might get too close to them, and be corrupted?

    Jesus, meek and humble of heart, does not seem to have a place in the Resistance.

    It is hard to see how the Resistance could ever go forth and teach all nations, because that would expose the evangelists to being poisoned by the world of unbelievers which vastly outnumbers it.

    For the Resistance, Our Lord in Matthew 28:20 is instructing the disciples to endanger their faith.  

    For the Resistance, St. Paul on the Areopagus was endangering his faith.

    The only safe thing for a Resistant to do is to denounce Bishop Fellay from a safe distance.  

    The Resistance is very much like the man who buried his talent.

    Some months ago, my SSPX priest son expressed a real concern that the Resistance was going to lead some people into Hell.

    At the time, I thought that this was a bit much.

    Now I'm not so sure.




    To summarize:

    The Resistance is not intellectual, but thinks and acts based on shallow slogans that capture a mangled part of the whole picture, you know, like Pope Francis does!

    The Resistance considers thought and prudence the enemies of true religion -- this is, of course, based on Fr. Themann's corrupted thought and misunderstanding of prudence.

    Bishop Williamson, as a member of the Resistance, can only be safe by repeatedly denouncing Modernism from a safe distance, and talks as if love were one of the enemies, for loving our enemies might get us too close to them, lest we would be corrupted.

    Jesus, meek and humble of heart, does not seem to have a place in the Resistance.

    The Resistance would never go forth and teach all nations, because that would expose the evangelists to being poisoned by the world of unbelievers which vastly outnumbers it.

    For the Resistance, Our Lord in Matthew 28:20 is instructing the disciples to endanger their faith.  

    For the Resistance, St. Paul on the Areopagus was endangering his faith.

    A Resistant is only safe denouncing Bishop Fellay from a safe distance.

    The Resistance is very much like the man who buried his talent.



    Some months ago, my SSPX priest son expressed a real concern that the Resistance was going to lead some people into Hell.

    My SSPX priest son only denounces the Resistance from a safe distance.


    .
    .--. .-.-.- ... .-.-.- ..-. --- .-. - .... . -.- .. -. --. -.. --- -- --..-- - .... . .--. --- .-- . .-. .- -. -.. -....- -....- .--- ..- ... - -.- .. -.. -.. .. -. --. .-.-.

    Offline Mithrandylan

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    SSPX Superior-General: "I didnt mean to say Pope is a Modernist in theolog
    « Reply #37 on: December 06, 2013, 05:15:59 AM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    Quote from: Incredulous
    Quote from: SeanJohnson

    Blah, blah, blah...



    Wow Sean... you emotional, uncharitable *-h*le.


    It's okay, Incred.  He's just making himself AND his 'position' look as bad as it is.

    During an exorcism, the demons come out howling.

    This is to be expected.


    .


    Neil the amateur exorcist, is it?  
    "Be kind; do not seek the malicious satisfaction of having discovered an additional enemy to the Church... And, above all, be scrupulously truthful. To all, friends and foes alike, give that serious attention which does not misrepresent any opinion, does not distort any statement, does not mutilate any quotation. We need not fear to serve the cause of Christ less efficiently by putting on His spirit". (Vermeersch, 1913).


    Offline bowler

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    SSPX Superior-General: "I didnt mean to say Pope is a Modernist in theolog
    « Reply #38 on: December 06, 2013, 09:32:15 AM »
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  • Quote from: Ekim
    New comprehensive interview by SSPX Superior-General: "I didn't mean to say Pope is a Modernist in theology, but in action".

    New interview granted by the Superior General of the Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX), Swiss bishop Bernard Fellay, to the organization's own news agency, DICI.


    They say that "you only get one chance to make a first impression", and it is true, if you don't see the person much again. By somewhat of an analogy, Bp. Fellay has done, said, and written enough to receive the standing with me of a person who speaks with a forked tongue. As everyday passes, he continues to get worse. Therefore, I no longer take anything he says seriously. What he says one day, he changes a few days later into double speak. It's as if he re-publishes it again after his editors have perfected the double speak so as not to offend the conciliar Church and at the same time not alert the majority of his blind followers.

    Needless to say, I read less and less of him, to the point that I do not even pick it up off the chapel counter. In short, he has been discarded to the heap with all the other people for which I have lost all hope of hearing anything worth listening to.

    Offline JPaul

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    SSPX Superior-General: "I didnt mean to say Pope is a Modernist in theolog
    « Reply #39 on: December 06, 2013, 10:35:49 PM »
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  • Quote
    Some months ago, my SSPX priest son expressed a real concern that the Resistance was going to lead some people into Hell.

     At the time, I thought that this was a bit much.

     Now I'm not so sure.


    Now you see how these priests of the new formation can influence minds and introduce confusion.

    Coming soon....to a Chapel near you......

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    SSPX Superior-General: "I didnt mean to say Pope is a Modernist in theolog
    « Reply #40 on: December 07, 2013, 02:45:00 PM »
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  • Quote from: Incredulous
    Quote from: SeanJohnson
    Quote from: Neil Obstat
    Quote from: SeanJohnson
    ...

    He seems to be at the mercy of his own weakness, and his desire to be loved in Rome is unhealthy for the SSPX (as his letter to the Three Bishops made abundantly clear).

    This kind of backtracking hurts his credibility amongst his own people.



    So.... lemmie guess:  you'd prefer a DIFFERENT KIND of backtracking??


    Quote
    Your Excellency: How do you expect to maintain the support of those like me, who are trying to give you the benefit of the doubt and a second, third, and fourth chance, in the face of interviews like this?

    ...


    The Great One has plenty of lemmings.  They're coming out his ears!  

    They're a dime a dozen.  He gets all the support he needs from his lemmings.  And if you don't like it, Sean, they'll just expel you and/or forbid you the sacraments and you can just go home, okay?


    Otherwise, certainly you can find it in your bag of tricks to cut him some more slack.  All he needs is another free ride -- I mean, benefit of the doubt from you and swarming masses of others like you, Sean.


    There's plenty more where you came from.


    Remember:  Make "practical agreement" your WATCHWORD!!


    You can DO it!        :wink:

    .


    Neil-

    You are the biggest bag of hot air on Cathinfo.

    Despite thousands of posts, the only originality you can muster is to change font and font color.

    I have yet to see a single contribution you have made to the Church in all your worthless bluster.

    Perhaps your time would be better spent parsing the local newspaper to the editor?

    You are the most boring person I have ever come across online.


    Wow Sean... you emotional, uncharitable a-hole.


    Anyone see hypocrisy in that last statement?
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline hollingsworth

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    SSPX Superior-General: "I didnt mean to say Pope is a Modernist in theolog
    « Reply #41 on: December 07, 2013, 06:28:15 PM »
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  • s2srhea:
    Quote
    Bishop Fellay- you are a disgrace.


    Ditto!