Author Topic: SSPX Spokesman: If the General Superior Agrees, The Society Will Come Along (Read 23402 times)

Max · « **Reply #45 on:** October 03, 2011, 01:32:41 AM »

The situation with Pius X might be complex. The issues surrounding the disagreements between Rome and Piux X might be complex.

The situation as it stands right now with the preamble is as simple as it could possibly be.

Here is what you HAVE to believe. If they sign "yes," they're in full communion. If they sign "NO," they're in schism.

That's it.

Really, really simple.

Kephapaulos · « **Reply #46 on:** October 03, 2011, 01:34:13 AM »

Quote from: Max

This is the last thing I will post.

I'm not really sure why you can't seem to understand the situation here, or why you are not processing the things I am saying.

Do you just want to argue, or are you limited in your understanding of the written word?

This is what is known as logical reasoning and I want you to make an attempt to follow along and not just say something contrary for the sake of writing something.

The preamble contains "what must be believed to be a Catholic."

What "must be believed to be a Catholic" is called a DOGMA.

If you deny a DOGMA, you are excommunicated, you are in schism. You are out of the Church and there is no going back.

The Society of Pius X has never denied a DOGMA. The preable is going to DEFINE ABSOLUTELY WHAT MUST BE BELIEVED.

IF THE SOCIETY DOES NOT SIGN. THAT IS THE END OF THE SOCIETY AS IT HAS BEEN FOR THE PAST 40 YEARS AND THEY WILL BE IN FORMAL SCHISM.

I'm sure they know this. Therefore, they will sign. They HAVE NO CHOICE.

It's really beyond weird that they would pretend that they do have a choice. Clearly, they are aware of what I am saying here. And ALL of the members SHOULD be aware of what I am saying here.

I see your line of reasoning, but that is oversimplifying the situation. Rome is infested with modernism still, and that has to be understood. We still do not know what it is actually said word-for-word in the doctirinal preamble.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #47 on:** October 03, 2011, 01:36:15 AM »

No one is going to go to hell for refusing to sign a docuмent of a "Pope" who praises Martin Luther and writes that Saint Paul did not really mean that bodies are raised from the dead.

Such a person cannot possibly define dogmas of the Catholic Faith in a binding manner.

That's the reality. The reality isn't determined by what people in the media say is the Catholic Church. The reality is determined by God and the Holy Tradition of the Catholic Church.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #48 on:** October 03, 2011, 01:38:03 AM »

If Martin Luther isn't in Hell for being excommunicated, the people who refuse to go along with this won't be there either.

If he is, then this Pope publicly expresses admiration for the heretical teachings of the hell-bound.

Max · « **Reply #49 on:** October 03, 2011, 01:39:26 AM »

Not complex. Very simple.

There really are not too many things WHICH MUST BE BELIEVED in order to be in the Chruch and those things are very basic.

It is also incredibly weird that they would be keeping those things private.

I imagine they will be made known in time.

The Society WILL SIGN. No doubt about it.

Not a shadow of a doubt.

Many members will be very unhappy about that.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #50 on:** October 03, 2011, 01:40:55 AM »

Quote

It is also incredibly weird that they would be keeping those things private.

I imagine they will be made known in time.

Yes, everyone can agree on that. But to be a good Machiavellian, you must present the fait accompli - and what a nice touch to claim they had no choice!

Charles · « **Reply #51 on:** October 03, 2011, 01:42:30 AM »

Quote from: Max

I'm sure they know this. Therefore, they will sign. They HAVE NO CHOICE.

Last time they were made an offer, the offer was presented as an ultimatum basically. The SSPX refused it. BXVI followed by lifting the excommunications.

I don't think you know any more about this than the average NO parishioner who has never even heard of the SSPX. You are guessing.

Max · « **Reply #52 on:** October 03, 2011, 01:43:28 AM »

They have no choice if they want to continue to maintain that they are not excommunicated and not in schism.

They know that they must sign in order to maintain any sort of influence in the Chruch and credibility with the thinking members.

Kephapaulos · « **Reply #53 on:** October 03, 2011, 01:47:52 AM »

Max, do you know what is said exactly in the doctrinal preamble then? Is there something you know that we do not know here on Cathinfo?

Kephapaulos · « **Reply #54 on:** October 03, 2011, 01:49:00 AM »

If SSPX signs it, it signs it. There would be nothing any of us could do about that.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #55 on:** October 03, 2011, 01:50:19 AM »

Quote from: Max

They have no choice if they want to continue to maintain that they are not excommunicated and not in schism.

They know that they must sign in order to maintain any sort of influence in the Chruch and credibility with the thinking members.

You mean the members who think the true successor of St. Peter called on St. John the Baptist to protect Mohammedanism? Are those thinking members?

Telesphorus · « **Reply #56 on:** October 03, 2011, 01:51:26 AM »

Quote from: Kephapaulos

If SSPX signs it, it signs it. There would be nothing any of us could do about that.

Wrong. There's plenty that can be done, and will be done. If we see an act of Judas then we can expect the results that Judas got.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #57 on:** October 03, 2011, 01:55:10 AM »

Nothing could be more absurd than the position that only believing Catholics are damned. Every other creed, religion, heterodoxy, heresy, etc, except integral Catholic Faith will be accepted. It is an absurdity that requires diabolical genius for people to swallow it.

Max · « **Reply #58 on:** October 03, 2011, 01:56:04 AM »

Okay. All anyone NEEDS to know is that both parties have agreed to the fact that the Church has presented a piece of paper, which could be called anything, to a group of dissenters which the Church has revealed to be 'THINGS WHICH MUSTbe believed in order to be a Roman Catholic.

It doesn't matter anything at all what those things (which are called Dogmas) are.

It ONLY matters that THEY MUST BE BELIEVED IN ORDER TO BE A ROMAN CATHOLIC.

If a dissenting group would formally DENY THESE THINGS, if they would say WE DO NOT BELIEVE THESE THINGS.

THEY WOULD BE OUT OF THE CHURCH. PERIOD.

THAT'S IT.

THEY'RE OUT.

THEY HAVE CLEARLY REVEALED THAT THEY DO NOT BELIEVE WHAT YOU HAVE TO BELIEVE TO BE A CATHOLIC.

HOW HARD IS THIS TO GRASP.

I CAN'T TAKE IT ANYMORE.

Kephapaulos · « **Reply #59 on:** October 03, 2011, 01:56:11 AM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

Quote from: Kephapaulos
If SSPX signs it, it signs it. There would be nothing any of us could do about that.

Wrong. There's plenty that can be done, and will be done. If we see an act of Judas then we can expect the results that Judas got.

I am talking about in the context of if it is signed whereas I myself could not force them either way.