Author Topic: SSPX Spokesman: If the General Superior Agrees, The Society Will Come Along (Read 20882 times)

Telesphorus · « **Reply #30 on:** October 03, 2011, 12:57:37 AM »

It seems rather certain there will be no anathemas or excommunications, whether they sign or no. And even if there were announcements of such things, they would not be legitimate acts of the Church.

Max · « **Reply #31 on:** October 03, 2011, 01:00:11 AM »

Ohhhhh, so this is like all internet message boards, huh?

We have a guy having a conversation with himself while posing as two or more different posters in order to control and freeze out anyone and anything they don't want, or can't respond to.

Max · « **Reply #32 on:** October 03, 2011, 01:03:10 AM »

Anyone who refuses to agree with or who denies outright the dogmas of the Church is ipso facto excommunicated and outside the Church, and all Catholics are aware of that, or should be.

The Preamble is a total game changer.

It's so obvious that the fact that no one in Pius X has acknowledged that FACT is quite puzzling to me.

Makes the entire situation pretty unbelievable....

Kephapaulos · « **Reply #33 on:** October 03, 2011, 01:04:35 AM »

Quote from: Max

Ohhhhh, so this is like all internet message boards, huh?

We have a guy having a conversation with himself while posing as two or more different posters in order to control and freeze out anyone and anything they don't want, or can't respond to.

Welcome, Max! Was this sarcasm? Or do you really think there is someone posing as two or more posters? Telesphorus and I are two different persons.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #34 on:** October 03, 2011, 01:05:59 AM »

The only people who could possibly lose sleep over being told they must believe something by the Pope are those who believe it is impossible for the true successor of St. Peter Pope to call on St. John the Baptist to protect Mohammedanism.

And the same holds true for this Benedict XVI.

The "carrot and stick" approach - and the phony "hand-wringing" over being "forced" to sign is laughable.

Traditionalists do not believe the excommunications of Archbishop Lefebvre, Bishop Castro Meyer, and the 4 sspx bishops were valid.

So why should they worry about this?

Why should believing Catholics worry about anathemas from those who praise Luther and beatify kissers of the Koran?

Could anything be more absurd?

Kephapaulos · « **Reply #35 on:** October 03, 2011, 01:07:38 AM »

Quote from: Max

Anyone who refuses to agree with or who denies outright the dogmas of the Church is ipso facto excommunicated and outside the Church, and all Catholics are aware of that, or should be.

The Preamble is a total game changer.

It's so obvious that the fact that no one in Pius X has acknowledged that FACT is quite puzzling to me.

Makes the entire situation pretty unbelievable....

What dogmas would you claim the SSPX would deny if they did not sign the doctrinal preamble?

Max · « **Reply #36 on:** October 03, 2011, 01:09:02 AM »

If the Pius X Society as a collective body claims to be the keepers of the totality of the truth of the Catholic faith, then surely they have to be aware that all Catholics MUST profess a belief in ALL OF THE DOGMAS of the Faith in order to remain within the Church.

The only thing contained in the PREAMBLE are the THINGS WHICH MUST BE BELIEVED. THE THINGS WHICH MUST BE BELIEVED ARE THE DOGMAS.

IF YOU DENY THE DOGMAS YOU ARE OUT.

THEM MUST SIGN. THEY HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO CHOICE.

WHY DOESN'T EVERYONE KNOW THIS.

IT'S PATHETICALLY OBVIOUS AND HAS BEEN SINCE DAY ONE. DAY ONE BEING SEPTEMBER 14, 2011.

GAME OVER....PIUS X MUST SIGN.

Kephapaulos · « **Reply #37 on:** October 03, 2011, 01:11:58 AM »

Quote from: Telesphorus

The only people who could possibly lose sleep over being told they must believe something by the Pope are those who believe it is impossible for the true successor of St. Peter Pope to call on St. John the Baptist to protect Mohammedanism.

And the same holds true for this Benedict XVI.

The "carrot and stick" approach - and the phony "hand-wringing" over being "forced" to sign is laughable.

Traditionalists do not believe the excommunications of Archbishop Lefebvre, Bishop Castro Meyer, and the 4 sspx bishops were valid.

So why should they worry about this?

Why should believing Catholics worry about anathemas from those who praise Luther and beatify kissers of the Koran?

Could anything be more absurd?

Well, whatever position each of us may hold, when the Church is restored, a future Pope and Council will properly judge our situation today. Right now, we still have a lot confusion to sort out. Let us keep praying and living the spiritual life.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #38 on:** October 03, 2011, 01:15:15 AM »

Quote from: Max

If the Pius X Society as a collective body claims to be the keepers of the totality of the truth of the Catholic faith, then surely they have to be aware that all Catholics MUST profess a belief in ALL OF THE DOGMAS of the Faith in order to remain within the Church.

Yes, Catholics must accept all the dogmas, but as was said before, this "preamble" certainly does not contain all of them. Nor will refusing to sign it result in excommunication. Certainly not a valid excommunication from a valid Pope, in any event. (and almost certainly not a paper excommunication)

This is a pathetic scheme to pretend that Bishop Fellay must fold under the pressure that Archbishop Lefebvre would not fold to.

Max · « **Reply #39 on:** October 03, 2011, 01:15:59 AM »

First, the Pius X has never denied any dogma of the Faith. They were excommunicated for disobeying the Pope. They found a loop hole in Canon Law which they believed justified their doing so. This is absolutely NOT the same thing as denying a Dogma of the Faith.

They have never done this, and I'm sure they are well aware that they CAN NOT EVER DO THIS.

That would definitely place them in formal schism and that is where they do not want to be.

They're obviously just trying to give members time to adjust to the idea of the loss of their independent identity.

But, if the people who consider themselves members of the society were intelligent enough to join the Society because of valid beliefs about the new mass and other issues with Vatican II, they are surely intelligent enough, and educated enough to realize that there is absolutely no doubt what must happen here.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #40 on:** October 03, 2011, 01:18:54 AM »

Quote from: Max

First, the Pius X has never denied any dogma of the Faith. They were excommunicated for disobeying the Pope. They found a loop hole in Canon Law which they believed justified their doing so. This is absolutely NOT the same thing as denying a Dogma of the Faith.

Refusing to sign does not signify refusing any dogmas.

There will be no anathemas.

The "spin" that the SSPX must do this is just a theatrical ploy.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #41 on:** October 03, 2011, 01:21:19 AM »

I am perfectly capable of carrying on a conversation with myself without resorting to a dummy account.

In any event, there is no doubt who refuses to engage in conversation.

As Archbishop Lefebvre said of these modernists who don't believe in the Christian God, they have excommunicated themselves.

Kephapaulos · « **Reply #42 on:** October 03, 2011, 01:24:11 AM »

Quote from: Max

If the Pius X Society as a collective body claims to be the keepers of the totality of the truth of the Catholic faith, then surely they have to be aware that all Catholics MUST profess a belief in ALL OF THE DOGMAS of the Faith in order to remain within the Church.

The only thing contained in the PREAMBLE are the THINGS WHICH MUST BE BELIEVED. THE THINGS WHICH MUST BE BELIEVED ARE THE DOGMAS.

IF YOU DENY THE DOGMAS YOU ARE OUT.

THEM MUST SIGN. THEY HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO CHOICE.

WHY DOESN'T EVERYONE KNOW THIS.

IT'S PATHETICALLY OBVIOUS AND HAS BEEN SINCE DAY ONE. DAY ONE BEING SEPTEMBER 14, 2011.

GAME OVER....PIUS X MUST SIGN.

The SSPX has to be careful though concerning the history it has had with Rome. The situation is complex. As of yet, we do not even know how the preamble is even worded at this point. Remember that Rome has used ambiguous terminology for quite awhile now. Plus, as John Vennari pointed out in a recent article from Catholic Family News, there are quite a number of factors that need to be considered concerning the current situation of Rome and the SSPX.

Max · « **Reply #43 on:** October 03, 2011, 01:28:04 AM »

This is the last thing I will post.

I'm not really sure why you can't seem to understand the situation here, or why you are not processing the things I am saying.

Do you just want to argue, or are you limited in your understanding of the written word?

This is what is known as logical reasoning and I want you to make an attempt to follow along and not just say something contrary for the sake of writing something.

The preamble contains "what must be believed to be a Catholic."

What "must be believed to be a Catholic" is called a DOGMA.

If you deny a DOGMA, you are excommunicated, you are in schism. You are out of the Church and there is no going back.

The Society of Pius X has never denied a DOGMA. The preable is going to DEFINE ABSOLUTELY WHAT MUST BE BELIEVED.

IF THE SOCIETY DOES NOT SIGN. THAT IS THE END OF THE SOCIETY AS IT HAS BEEN FOR THE PAST 40 YEARS AND THEY WILL BE IN FORMAL SCHISM.

I'm sure they know this. Therefore, they will sign. They HAVE NO CHOICE.

It's really beyond weird that they would pretend that they do have a choice. Clearly, they are aware of what I am saying here. And ALL of the members SHOULD be aware of what I am saying here.

Telesphorus · « **Reply #44 on:** October 03, 2011, 01:31:54 AM »

Quote from: Max

This is the last thing I will post.

I'm not really sure why you can't seem to understand the situation here, or why you are not processing the things I am saying.

Do you just want to argue, or are you limited in your understanding of the written word?

This is what is known as logical reasoning and I want you to make an attempt to follow along and not just say something contrary for the sake of writing something.

The preamble contains "what must be believed to be a Catholic."

What "must be believed to be a Catholic" is called a DOGMA.

If you deny a DOGMA, you are excommunicated, you are in schism. You are out of the Church and there is no going back.

The Society of Pius X has never denied a DOGMA. The preable is going to DEFINE ABSOLUTELY WHAT MUST BE BELIEVED.

IF THE SOCIETY DOES NOT SIGN. THAT IS THE END OF THE SOCIETY AS IT HAS BEEN FOR THE PAST 40 YEARS AND THEY WILL BE IN FORMAL SCHISM.

I'm sure they know this. Therefore, they will sign. They HAVE NO CHOICE.

It's really beyond weird that they would pretend that they do have a choice. Clearly, they are aware of what I am saying here. And ALL of the members SHOULD be aware of what I am saying here.

The doctrinal preamble is not a defined dogma of the Catholic Church.

It requires legitimate authority to define dogmas. Manifest heretics cannot define dogmas.

No Catholic is going to be excommunicated, formally or informally, for refusing to accept it.

The society will claim they had not choice, but that is simply a lie.