Author Topic: SSPX Spokesman explains remaining difficulties in talks with the Vatican  (Read 2050 times)

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Offline parentsfortruth

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  • Catholic World News
    SSPX spokesman explains remaining difficulties in talks with Vatican

    CWN - September 21, 2012


    A spokesman for the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) has said that the group declined a Vatican offer of reconciliation because of a requirement that the traditionalists must acknowledge both the validity of the Novus Ordo Mass and the continuity between Vatican II and previous Catholic doctrinal statements.

    Father Franz Schmidberger, the German superior of the SSPX, said that these two requirements had been added after the SSPX had nearly reached agreement with the Vatican on a “doctrinal preamble” that would have provided the basis for a reconciliation agreement. Father Schmidberger said that the SSPX could not accept the statement that the teachings of Vatican II are in continuity with the teachings of previous Church councils, since the group sees flat contradictions.

    Father Schmidberger hinted that the two added requirements had been added to the "doctrinal preamble" by Cardinal William Levada, who at the time was prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith (CDF). But he gave no reason for optimism that the new CDF prefect, Archbishop Gerhard Müller, would be more inclined to favor reconciliation with the SSPX. In fact Archbishop Müller has not been forthcoming in his dealings with traditionalists, he said.

    http://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=15689
    Matthew 5:37

    But let your speech be yea, yea: no, no: and that which is over and above these, is of evil.

    My Avatar is Fr. Hector Bolduc. He was a faithful parish priest in De Pere, WI,

    Offline Pablo

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    SSPX Spokesman explains remaining difficulties in talks with the Vatican
    « Reply #1 on: September 21, 2012, 05:06:16 PM »
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  • With the expulsion of Holy Priests and smashing of Faithful true to Holy Mother Church, the Surrendered SSPX should now have no problem entering apostate Rome.


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    Offline Elmer Fudd

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    SSPX Spokesman explains remaining difficulties in talks with the Vatican
    « Reply #2 on: September 22, 2012, 02:40:13 PM »
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  • "reconciliation agreement"

    What a fallacy this is.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    SSPX Spokesman explains remaining difficulties in talks with the Vatican
    « Reply #3 on: September 22, 2012, 03:10:45 PM »
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  • Quote
    In fact Archbishop Müller has not been forthcoming in his dealings with traditionalists, he said.


    Fr. Schmidberger is talking just like a da*ned politician.

    The correct word is "forthright," not forthcoming.

    Forthcoming refers to tomorrow's sunrise, or the arrival of a scheduled
    guest, or something that we know is expected to happen. It has nothing to
    do with a witness' cooperation with giving testimony that is DUE.

    The problem with Mueller is he's a FLAMING MODERNIST.

    The problem with B16 is HE APPOINTED A HERETIC TO THIS OFFICE.

    The problem with Fr. Schmidberger is HE'S RELUCTANT TO SAY IT WHEN
    IT NEEDS TO BE SAID.

    How can you expect a flaming Modernist to behave in a forthright manner??? DUUUH.


    Would ABL talk like this in this situation?


    Give me a BREAK!!



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    Offline Telesphorus

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    SSPX Spokesman explains remaining difficulties in talks with the Vatican
    « Reply #4 on: September 22, 2012, 07:27:31 PM »
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  • The Archbishop was worried about a successor to maintain the society.  That is why he negotiated.

    In the end he realized it would have been a fatal error that would have ruined the mission of the society.

    There is absolutely no doubt that the noose he slipped out of in 1988 with Cardinal Ratzinger is the same noose that Benedict XVI has been discussing with Bishop Fellay how to slip around the neck of Pius X.

    And what do the "deal" clowns fall back on?

    Transparently false claims about a prospective "no-strings" deal.

    Nonsense about Rome having "changed"

    Naked appeals to authority of Benedict XVI and Bishop Fellay, which make a mockery of the position of resistance that the SSPX has maintained for decades.



    Offline Ethelred

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    SSPX Spokesman explains remaining difficulties in talks with the Vatican
    « Reply #5 on: September 23, 2012, 05:44:58 AM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    Fr. Schmidberger is talking just like a da*ned politician.

    Knowing him I can assure you he's not just talking like one, but he is one.
    And so is his superior and rival Bp Fellay.

    The good news is: Ahead of time the Father's office as German district superior will end within one year.
    The bad news is: his liberal superiors will stay in their offices, and his successor will not be an improvement.

    Offline Wessex

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    SSPX Spokesman explains remaining difficulties in talks with the Vatican
    « Reply #6 on: September 23, 2012, 06:08:30 AM »
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  • From what I have heard, the German faithful like to identify themselves with modern Germany, particularly Christian Democrats and Angela Merkel. This is a far cry from the radical politics of ABL's original collaborators who saw a close connection between the modern church and modern society. One wonders about the worldview and background of young seminarians and the effect this will have on maintaining Catholic continuity. Something has to give.

    Offline brotherfrancis75

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    SSPX Spokesman explains remaining difficulties in talks with the Vatican
    « Reply #7 on: September 23, 2012, 12:37:58 PM »
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  • Quote from: Wessex
    From what I have heard, the German faithful like to identify themselves with modern Germany, particularly Christian Democrats and Angela Merkel. This is a far cry from the radical politics of ABL's original collaborators who saw a close connection between the modern church and modern society. One wonders about the worldview and background of young seminarians and the effect this will have on maintaining Catholic continuity. Something has to give.


    It seems that no one ever said the Great Apostasy and Apocalypse were going to be easy.  The obvious facts of our situation are clearly not pretty:  The Christian Democrats or fake conservatives and the existing Vatican that leads them essentially share the same extremist politics and religion as the Wahabbis in Saudi Arabia and the Zionists in Israhell.  Just a three-headed monster of the Red One-World Religion they all share so self-righteously as they go forward gleefully massacring the Catholics of the Middle East and elsewhere.  In brief, the fundamentalist modernism of Benedict XVI is in essence not significantly different from secularist modernism of Paul VI.

    What's now giving way is the world as we have known it.  The actual Catholic Counter-Revolution is beginning in Syria and Palestine, that fire is going to spread over the entire planet, people are taking sides and those extremist Neo-Liberal Bolsheviks (aka "conservatives") who stand in the way are going to meet quite an ugly end.

    Please forgive a bearer of such severe news, but nobody has ever said that Christ Crucified and His Counter-Revolution were going to be a "Tea Party" (and please forgive that bad pun too).



    Offline John McFarland

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    SSPX Spokesman explains remaining difficulties in talks with the Vatican
    « Reply #8 on: September 23, 2012, 03:16:41 PM »
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  • Quote from: Neil Obstat
    Quote
    In fact Archbishop Müller has not been forthcoming in his dealings with traditionalists, he said.


    Fr. Schmidberger is talking just like a da*ned politician.

    The correct word is "forthright," not forthcoming.

    Forthcoming refers to tomorrow's sunrise, or the arrival of a scheduled
    guest, or something that we know is expected to happen. It has nothing to
    do with a witness' cooperation with giving testimony that is DUE.

    The problem with Mueller is he's a FLAMING MODERNIST.

    The problem with B16 is HE APPOINTED A HERETIC TO THIS OFFICE.

    The problem with Fr. Schmidberger is HE'S RELUCTANT TO SAY IT WHEN
    IT NEEDS TO BE SAID.

    How can you expect a flaming Modernist to behave in a forthright manner??? DUUUH.


    Would ABL talk like this in this situation?


    Give me a BREAK!!


    Dear Neil,

    Why should anyone pay any attention to CWN?  Pull up the subtitled video from sspx.org or rorate-caeli or wherever and work from what you know he said.

    The interview is in German with English subtitles.  So I think that you're going to have to go back to the beginning: the German.  What word or words did Fr. S use, and what do they mean?  Then you'll be able to figure out whether your lesson needs to be about German usage to Fr. S, or English usage to CWN.

    Perhaps there's a German speak among the Cathinfo faithful who could give you a hand.

    Offline Neil Obstat

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    SSPX Spokesman explains remaining difficulties in talks with the Vatican
    « Reply #9 on: September 24, 2012, 07:11:14 AM »
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  • Quote from: Wessex
    From what I have heard, the German faithful like to identify themselves with modern Germany, particularly Christian Democrats and Angela Merkel. This is a far cry from the radical politics of ABL's original collaborators who saw a close connection between the modern church and modern society. One wonders about the worldview and background of young seminarians and the effect this will have on maintaining Catholic continuity. Something has to give.


    So long as the Menzingen-denizens are in control of the SSPX seminaries, there
    will be a severe handicap in "the worldview and background of young seminarians"  
    and therefore, "the effect this will have on maintaining Catholic continuity" will
    likewise be a destructive effect, for sure.

    Remember, it was this Catholic continuity that ABL strived to preserve, and what
    is carved in his headstone.

    Communists have always followed the Catholic model, to indoctrinate the
    children so as to evoke a "progressive generation" for the future. That's why they
    have been effective: but the content of their indoctrination is the opposite of the
    Catholic content: they only imitate the METHOD. It is a long term investment for
    them, in their attempt to remake the world in their own image. We have a so-called President in America whose ideology is exactly that: Communist.
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    Online poche

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    SSPX Spokesman explains remaining difficulties in talks with the Vatican
    « Reply #10 on: September 26, 2012, 05:37:43 AM »
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  • Maybe we should pray for a resolution of these difficulties. :pray: :pray: :pray:


    Offline wallflower

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    SSPX Spokesman explains remaining difficulties in talks with the Vatican
    « Reply #11 on: September 26, 2012, 05:56:48 PM »
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  • The problem I have with this is that even if -- even IF -- you gave the SSPX superiors the most generous of benefits of the doubt that this was all one big innocent misunderstanding, what was so hard about being open about this immediately as it was happening?

    Maybe I missed it, someone correct me if they did say this months ago, but if not why not? The whole "secret" aspect to these talks is disasterous. If they are telling the truth, we don't really know, and if they are putting information out there piece by piece strategically as it suits them, we don't know either.    

    To come out with it now reeks of backpeddaling. As if, after all this time, the "rumor-mongers" can't be silenced and it's clearer every day that +Fellay was dead wrong, i.e. the Pope has NOT changed afterall, so now they add in the quaint little bit of information that will make eeeeeveryone happy. Oh the Vatican added the conditions that we must accept VII at the last minute so we had to decline. Now everyone be happy again. Really? REALLY?

    First of all, this is and always has been the Vatican's modus operandi with traditionalist groups but it was never required of the SSPX until last minute? Remotely possible but HUGE stretch.

    Secondly, if this was added last minute and was declined, let's say we try really hard and swallow that one for half a second, it still doesn't explain why +Fellay was already speaking the language of ambiguity regarding VII. It was already in his heart and rolling off his tongue so it's tough to believe it wasn't already on paper too. There's just too much that doesn't add up.

    I think they (whether just the Vatican or both the Vatican and +Fellay, God knows) needed to test the waters and the backlash was still strong enough to make them back off. The way the majority was so easily scared out of critical thinking though doesn't bode well for the future.

     

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