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Author Topic: SSPX Silence Prepares Betrayal  (Read 3703 times)

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Offline Plenus Venter

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SSPX Silence Prepares Betrayal
« on: November 10, 2025, 07:39:11 PM »
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  • It struck me as I was re-reading this history of the preparation for Vatican II that instead of following their founder, Archbishop Lefebvre, in speaking out in the face of scandal, the neo-SSPX leadership and priests are following in the footsteps (silence) of those churchmen who betrayed.

    Of all 120 members of the Central Preparatory Commission, only Archbishop Lefebvre rose up to protest against the inclusion of dissident/censured theologians among the periti. One can imagine that had Bishop Williamson been present he would have stood up in support of the Archbishop. The rest of the SSPX would have been 'prudent':

    https://web.archive.org/web/20040613183510/http://sspx.org/miscellaneous/ab_lefebvre_preparing_the_council.htm

    First Skirmishes
    The question regarding the selection of the Council’s periti (experts) was addressed at the very first plenary session of the Central Commission. Archbishop Lefebvre had received in advance, like his colleagues, the list of the experts chosen by the pope, and was the only one to voice his opposition to such contradiction between theory and practice.
    Said the Archbishop: "As for the quality of the theologians and experts in Canon Law, they must have a true love for the Church and they must adhere completely first in their hearts, with their lips and by their actions to the doctrines of the Roman pontiffs and the docuмents written by them. This is of paramount importance, since we have been surprised to find the names of theologians whose doctrine is at variance with the necessary qualities demanded in advisors." At least three of these experts had been censured by the Church hierarchy. "When I mentioned these names," he continued, "Cardinal Ottaviani did not react. However, after that meeting, during a coffee break, I was approached by His Eminence, who took me by the arm and said: ‘I understand your concern, but what can we do? The Holy Father, himself, wants things to be this way. He desires to have experts who have made a name for themselves.’"


    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: SSPX Silence Prepares Betrayal
    « Reply #1 on: November 10, 2025, 07:44:22 PM »
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  • Here is a good article on the silence of the SSPX that Fr Ortiz posted out a couple of months ago. Please God some of them will find their courage again:

    https://bigmodernism.substack.com/p/the-societys-silence-what-happened



    Offline TomGubbinsKimmage

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    Re: SSPX Silence Prepares Betrayal
    « Reply #2 on: November 10, 2025, 07:46:41 PM »
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  • Here is a good article on the silence of the SSPX that Fr Ortiz posted out a couple of months ago. Please God some of them will find their courage again:

    https://bigmodernism.substack.com/p/the-societys-silence-what-happened





    They will never find their courage plenus.


    And we should never encourage people to go to their Masses. 


    I hope you have changed your mind on that point 

    Offline Plenus Venter

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    Re: SSPX Silence Prepares Betrayal
    « Reply #3 on: November 12, 2025, 05:22:42 AM »
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  • They will never find their courage plenus.


    And we should never encourage people to go to their Masses.


    I hope you have changed your mind on that point
    No, Tom, I have not changed my mind on this issue.
    It is a case by case decision.
    I have seen more harm to souls resulting from your stance over the last 13 years than mine.
    Bishop Williamson did not give a blanket red light to SSPX attendance.
    Whatever position you take in this crisis it is imperative to educate and orientate yourself so that you do not end up smashed against the rocks.

    Offline TomGubbinsKimmage

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    Re: SSPX Silence Prepares Betrayal
    « Reply #4 on: November 12, 2025, 07:43:48 AM »
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  • No, Tom, I have not changed my mind on this issue.
    It is a case by case decision.
    I have seen more harm to souls resulting from your stance over the last 13 years than mine.
    Bishop Williamson did not give a blanket red light to SSPX attendance.
    Whatever position you take in this crisis it is imperative to educate and orientate yourself so that you do not end up smashed against the rocks.


    In a case where people are told to go to SSPX are there no limits or caveats put on this?

    I presume then you would apply the same logic to other TLMs.

    Qualitatively, considering the SSPX's liberal environment and their principal of seeking full integration, they are the same as Indulters.


    Offline Bonafidecat

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    Re: SSPX Silence Prepares Betrayal
    « Reply #5 on: Yesterday at 06:30:52 PM »
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  • I'm new to this, but it's interesting to me the irony in wishing to be reconciled with the very post-VII structure that you have been condemning for decades, and still do.
    "Poor Jews! You invoked a dreadful curse upon your own heads; and that curse, miserable race, you carry upon you to this day, and to the End of Time you shall endure the chastisement of that innocent blood!" (St. Alphonsus Maria Liguori) 


    "There is only one Christian faith, that is: Catholic." (St. Bridget of Sweden)

    Offline Twice dyed

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    Re: SSPX Silence Prepares Betrayal
    « Reply #6 on: Yesterday at 07:05:42 PM »
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  • I'm new to this, but it's interesting to me the irony in wishing to be reconciled with the very post-VII structure that you have been condemning for decades, and still do.
    Welcome to CathInfo! I am a couple of years older than you, but my eyes don't like computer screens, so I do errors of course.

    My idea of the neoSspx is that they are already 75% swallowed by New Church.  + Fellay is a judge of First Instance, still today I guess , Marriages are necessarily performed with the approval of NOVUS Ordo bishops; I heard that even Baptisms are registered in the dioceses; the Pope gave them a green light for confessions- ordinations.  I also heard they can't set up new schools or priories without consulting NO bishops . And yet they still expect approval for consecrating their new bishops... 
    A main priory in Florida collaborates with the local diocese, sharing the NO church buildings/ activities. 
    Read the sermon for "+ " Huonder , and that will clarify today's shift in the neoSspx.

    English - Spoken by another person because the sermon was French and German:



    God bless+
    The measure of love is to love without measure.
                                     St. Augustine (354 - 430 AD)

    Offline Bonafidecat

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    Re: SSPX Silence Prepares Betrayal
    « Reply #7 on: Today at 12:47:24 PM »
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  • Welcome to CathInfo! I am a couple of years older than you, but my eyes don't like computer screens, so I do errors of course.

    My idea of the neoSspx is that they are already 75% swallowed by New Church.  + Fellay is a judge of First Instance, still today I guess , Marriages are necessarily performed with the approval of NOVUS Ordo bishops; I heard that even Baptisms are registered in the dioceses; the Pope gave them a green light for confessions- ordinations.  I also heard they can't set up new schools or priories without consulting NO bishops . And yet they still expect approval for consecrating their new bishops...
    A main priory in Florida collaborates with the local diocese, sharing the NO church buildings/ activities.
    Read the sermon for "+ " Huonder , and that will clarify today's shift in the neoSspx.

    English - Spoken by another person because the sermon was French and German:



    God bless+

    Thanks for responding.  What do you mean by "judge of First Instance?"  I didn't know that the Pope gave them permission to ordain??  I thought it was only faculties for confessions and marriages.  I'll give that sermon a listen.
    "Poor Jews! You invoked a dreadful curse upon your own heads; and that curse, miserable race, you carry upon you to this day, and to the End of Time you shall endure the chastisement of that innocent blood!" (St. Alphonsus Maria Liguori) 


    "There is only one Christian faith, that is: Catholic." (St. Bridget of Sweden)


    Offline Twice dyed

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    Re: SSPX Silence Prepares Betrayal
    « Reply #8 on: Today at 02:38:53 PM »
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  • Hi! Somehow your first response didn't show on my tiny screen. Anyway this was discussed 10 years ago on CInfo . Not sure if he still has that prerogative today of Judge of First Instance... probably more!
    +Fellay expelling Sspx. priests by subtle approval of Modernist Rome. You see: New Code can dismiss clerics even if there is no evidence...(read kommunist)
    Fr Salenave was "judged" by this arrangement. 

    Related:
    Around that time it was 2015 -2016

    https://sspx.org/en/sspxs-participation-jubilee-mercy-31897
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    Offline Maria Auxiliadora
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    Bishop Fellay: Appointed by Rome to judge and punish priests
    « Reply #38 on: June 03, 2015, 01:48:33 PM »
    From the Vatican Insider 6/3/15



    06/ 3/2015
    Holy See puts Fellay in charge of trying one of his own priests


    The Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has appointed the Superior of the Society of St. Pius X, founded by Lefebvre, to be the first-instance trial judge in the case against a Lefebvrian priest who is accused of a serious crime
    ANDREA TORNIELLI
    vatican city

    He announced it himself during the course of a sermon at Our Lady of the Angels church in Arcadia, California, on May 10, 2015: the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith has appointed the Superior General of the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX), Bishop Bernard Fellay, as first-instance judge in a case involving a Lefebvrian priest. The former Holy Office is in charge of dealing with a number of “delicta graviora”. The one that pops up most frequently, is the one involving the sɛҳuąƖ abuse of minors. Fellay presented this as an example of the “contradictions” in the Holy See’s approach to the Fraternity.

    “We are labeled now as being irregular, at best. “Irregular” means you cannot do anything, and so for example they have prohibited us from saying Mass in the churches in Rome, for the Dominican sisters who had their pilgrimage in Rome in February. They say, “No, you cannot, because you are irregular”. And these people [who] say that, were people of [Pontifical Commission] Ecclesia Dei.”

    “Now, sometimes, unfortunately,” Bishop Fellay said, “also priests do silly things, and they need to be punished. And when it is very, very serious, we have to make recourse to Rome. So we do. And what does the Congregation of the Faith do? Well, they did appoint me as the judge for this case.  So I was appointed by Rome, by the Congregation of the Faith, to make judgements, canonical Church judgements on some of our priests who belong to a non-existent Society for them (for Rome, Ed.). And so, once again, a beautiful contradiction indeed.”

    This is not the first time the SSPX has made recourse to Rome when it comes to “delicta graviora” and dispensations from priestly obligations. What is new in this case is that the former Holy Office headed by Cardinal Gerhard Ludwig Müller has decided to entrust the case to Mgr. Fellay himself, making him first-instance trial judge. An expression of attention. A sign that the path toward full communion with the Lefebvrians continues, as Archbishop Guido Pozzo confirmed in a statement to Vatican Insider. He archbishop, who is also Secretary of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, said: “The decision of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith does not imply that existing problems have been resolved, but it is a sign of benevolence and magnanimity. I see no contradiction here, but rather, a step toward reconciliation.”

    Readers will recall that another important sign came last April, when the Archbishop of Buenos Aires gave the green light for Lefebvrians to be registered by the Argentinian government as a “diocesan association”. Also, a large group of SSPX pilgrims was allowed to celebrate the Eucharist in Lourdes Basilica.

    So why does Fellay speak of a contradiction? His comment was in reference to last February’s pilgrimage to Rome, which saw the participation of 1500 faithful. The pilgrimage was organised by Dominican sisters with links to the SSPX. A request was submitted to the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei for mass to be celebrated at the altar of St. Peter’s Basilica. On this occasion, however, the heads of the Commission, decided that the celebration of a mass by a Lefebvrian priest before existing problems were resolved in view of canonical regularisation and full communion would have sent out the wrong signal. Nevertheless, Pope Francis gave his approval to a proposal for the requested mass to be celebrated in St. Peter’s Basilica but by an Ecclesia Dei priest and according to the old rite. Leaders of the Fraternity declined the offer.

    Still, the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith’s appointment of Fellay as first-instance trial judge, shows that progress is being made in terms of the dialogue between the Church and the SSPX.

    ******
    re Permission for Ordinations.

    https://www.catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=31663

    "...Last year, I received a letter from Rome, telling me you can freely ordain your priests without the permission of the local ordinary,” Bishop Fellay reported. He said that the move indicated that although the status of the SSPX remains irregular, “the ordination is recognized by the Church not just as valid but in order.”

    The SSPX has been involved in talks with the Vatican, aimed at regularizing the status of the group, and informed sources have indicated that an agreement is close to establish the SSPX as a personal prelature. Pope Francis has already said that SSPX priests have the authority to hear sacramental confessions and preside at weddings that will be recognized by the Catholic Church. Bishop Fellay remarked that the permission to ordain bishops is “one more step in his acceptance that we are... ‘normal Catholics.’“


    The measure of love is to love without measure.
                                     St. Augustine (354 - 430 AD)

    Offline MiracleOfTheSun

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    Re: SSPX Silence Prepares Betrayal
    « Reply #9 on: Today at 03:08:45 PM »
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  • A main priory in Florida collaborates with the local diocese, sharing the NO church buildings/ activities.
    Read the sermon for "+ " Huonder , and that will clarify today's shift in the neoSspx.

    I think I remember +Tissier doing confirmations at a New Order establishment, due to 'overflow' I think they said, but the SSPX regularly shares with the local parish?  How long has that been going on?