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Author Topic: SSPX Seminary Numbers  (Read 2342 times)

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Online Ladislaus

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SSPX Seminary Numbers
« on: April 24, 2025, 08:15:02 PM »
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  • So, based on this ...
    https://sspx.org/en/news/dillwyn-ordinations-minor-orders-and-subdiaconate-2025-51927

    22 early Minor Orders
    12 mid Minor Orders
    6 Subdiaconate (only 4 Americans, 1 from Ireland, and 1 Benedictine)

    These numbers are almost identical to what they were in my time.  Low 20s to start, about 10 by 3/4 of the way through, and 4-5 make it through to Ordination to the Priesthood.

    So why did they need this $50 million seminary again ... when Winona was perfectly adequate for similar numbers back in my day (late 1980s - early 1990s)?

    Winona is a beautiful property with much land, and if some extra space really were needed, they could have added another building or a wing into the existing building for maybe 1-2 million dollars depending on how many more you wanted to accommodate.

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX Seminary Numbers
    « Reply #1 on: April 24, 2025, 08:18:28 PM »
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  • SSPX paid $420,000 for Winona.
    https://sspx.org/en/news/winona-has-been-bought-7450



    They had to borrow another $90K for repairs on top of the $420K, but still (and the cite then-Father Williamson's newsletter from 1987 ...
    Quote
    More good news: The seminary in Minnesota has been bought, and it now belongs to the Society of St. Pius X. In just under two months you have contributed to our Building Fund a sum of $402,008, enabling us to purchase Winona without a mortgage. That is a remarkable achievement.

    Even more precious in God’s eyes will be the sacrifice many of you must have made. After all, the Lord of Lords might have inspired one or two souls well endowed with this world’s goods to put up the entire sum. Instead He sent St. Joseph to knock on many doors. After all, He wants many souls to store their treasure in Heaven. To all of you, many thanks.

    ... and also cite a visitor's impressions
    Quote
    Words fail me in trying to tell you my impression of the magnificence of the place, the holy atmosphere, and how perfect this will be for the Society ... What a place! What a view! What an opportunity for the Society! There are just not enough words in my poor vocabulary to describe my enthusiasm


    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX Seminary Numbers
    « Reply #2 on: April 24, 2025, 08:28:22 PM »
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  • Online Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX Seminary Numbers
    « Reply #3 on: April 24, 2025, 08:30:55 PM »
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  • Online Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX Seminary Numbers
    « Reply #4 on: April 24, 2025, 08:31:50 PM »
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  • Offline Clare67

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    Re: SSPX Seminary Numbers
    « Reply #5 on: April 24, 2025, 09:20:05 PM »
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  • If I remember correctly, it was Mr. Novak (Frs. Kenneth and Lawrence's father) who found the Winona property.  I remember reading the article in the old STAS newspaper that gave Mr. Novak credit. 
      
    Was the old newspaper called Verbum?  They don't have it anymore.  They used to link to the archives but that was before 2012 when everything changed.  

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX Seminary Numbers
    « Reply #6 on: April 24, 2025, 09:26:20 PM »
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  • If I remember correctly, it was Mr. Novak (Frs. Kenneth and Lawrence's father) who found the Winona property.  I remember reading the article in the old STAS newspaper that gave Mr. Novak credit.
     
    Was the old newspaper called Verbum?  They don't have it anymore.  They used to link to the archives but that was before 2012 when everything changed. 

    Yes, Dr. Novak.  I was at Loyola University in Chicago when I found Tradition, and Dr. Novak was my sponsor for conditional confirmation ... before I entered SSPX seminary in Winona in the Fall of 1989.  He and Mrs. Novak came up to see me receive clerical tonsure.  Yes, the seminary / seminarians issued the Verbum.

    Offline Vicchio

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    Re: SSPX Seminary Numbers
    « Reply #7 on: April 24, 2025, 11:27:28 PM »
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  • $50 Million...Trying to grasp what that sort of money could have been spent on instead. Perhaps improving and expanding numerous chapels (mission and otherwise).  Our mission chapel attendance has tripled in the past few years meaning some Masses are extremely overcrowded, and the parish hall is unable to seat more than 50-60 people.  Many young families are in desperate need of a high quality home school program and some are moving away to locations with SSPX schools (a blessing for those able to move, but a huge loss of good people locally).
      


    Offline Matthew

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    Re: SSPX Seminary Numbers
    « Reply #8 on: April 24, 2025, 11:51:13 PM »
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  • $50 Million...Trying to grasp what that sort of money could have been spent on instead. Perhaps improving and expanding numerous chapels (mission and otherwise).  Our mission chapel attendance has tripled in the past few years meaning some Masses are extremely overcrowded, and the parish hall is unable to seat more than 50-60 people.  Many young families are in desperate need of a high quality home school program and some are moving away to locations with SSPX schools (a blessing for those able to move, but a huge loss of good people locally).
     

    Yes, that's how it was at St. Joseph's in San Antonio.
    1. It was a mission chapel, not a Priory.
    2. A lot of military in this area, but specifically *training bases* which is by its very nature temporary. So those families wouldn't be here long.
    3. No school, so every family had to either A) homeschool, B) move to another SSPX chapel with a school, or C) send their kids to public school.

    All the good families we became friends with chose B). There was one family that was homeschooled, but they were extremely liberal and ended up at a Motu Mass. They left after a few parishioners raised issues about their daughter wearing scandalously short skirts. Who knows where they go now. They have some real issues in that family, which stems from the husband being a real beta male, and his wife being way too dominant and choleric. I looked them up on Facebook recently. Let's just say their whole family need lots of prayers. The husband is a long-time SSPX-er too, going back several decades. The wife is a convert.

    I was surprised, scandalized really, at the number of families who chose C). And this wasn't in the 90's.

    In my personal opinion it's a mortal sin to send your kids to public school in current year. You want them to be woke, transgender, degenerate, morally corrupted, get perverted sex ed, receive countless anti-Faith, anti-family, and anti-natalist propaganda, have peers show them porn on their phones, if they're not bullying them at the time? You think that's morally licit?

    Our Lord says, in St. Matthew 18:6:
    "But he that shall scandalize one of these little ones that believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone should be hanged about his neck, and that he should be drowned in the depth of the sea."

    Seriously, if my wife couldn't homeschool, and there was no SSPX school or private school option, I would just keep the kids home and "do my best". Better to live life with a 6th grade education and work a trade/minimum wage/manual labor, and end up going into heaven, than to be cast into hell with a PhD and a million dollars in the bank. Seriously, it isn't rocket science. Our Lord was very clear about this kind of choice too!

    There are worse fates than having a poor or inadequate secular education -- such as, I don't know, going to Hell.

    Ask Jonathon Van Maren at LifeSiteNews. The average age kids are exposed to porn -- usually at school and via a smartphone -- is like age 9. It's insane. And refer to Our Lady about what kinds of sins claim the largest number of victims, casting the most souls into hell. It's sins of the flesh.

    And this isn't your father's or grandfather's porn either. I will refrain from going into details, but I will say it's most degenerate, perverted, and twisted stuff. It has gone FAR BEYOND "girlie magazines" or "nudes" that were kept hidden in a box under the bed.

    It would appear that if you can get "sins of the flesh" under control, your chance of salvation goes up DRASTICALLY. All the other sins are easily overcome by comparison. I remember one story about a man who was prepared to part with all his sins -- except his mistress. The priest at his deathbed was BEGGING him to be reasonable, and give her up. He refused; he died embracing his mistress, in a state of mortal sin. If it weren't for that irregular marriage (adultery), he might very well have saved his soul. That book ("The Sinner's Return to God"; the chapter on impurity) made an impression on me. That, and Our Lady's words at Fatima.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX Seminary Numbers
    « Reply #9 on: April 25, 2025, 12:22:06 AM »
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  • Apart from the misuse of funds, it's not uncommon to see Priories with a half dozen priests stationed there while chapels with many families and large attendance overall go without a resident priest, getting Mass only on weekends, sometimes just on Sundays ... whereas the priory chapels (sometimes not that much larger) have 4-5 Masses the faithful can attend.

    Whoever's making these decisions and these assignments will have to answer to God for the graces those faithful at these chapels are missing out on due to lack of weekday Mass, or faithful who die without Last Sacraments because they don't make it until the weekend, etc.

    Father John Fullerton ... I'm talking about you.

    Do these priests have any love for souls whatsoever?  If I were in charge, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I were not getting the Sacraments to as many of the faithful as I possibly could, and I could never spent 50 million on a seminary or 25 million on a church when the money could be better spent elsewhere at chapels throughout the country ... for the good of souls and the glory of God, not the glory of +Fellay and the SSPX.

    Here's the other thing about those expenditures.  When I was at Loyola University in Chicago, I used to spend some Saturday mornings just walking around the city in the vicinity of the campus there, and within a couple hours I could visit 10 magnificently beautiful churches there, maybe one every other block, none of which could be duplicated today for any price.  I would imagine the Tridentine Mass being offered again in those churches.

    There are also magnificent seminarians all over the country.  Now, the Traditional attitude USED TO BE that these would all return to Catholic use when the crisis had passed.  So why would you build a 50-million-dollar seminary when there are dozens of seminaries that you couldn't build for even double that today that will return to Catholic use eventually?  Well, it's because the neo-SSPX have accepted this notion that the Conciliar Church is the "New Normal", i.e. that Vatican II is here to stay, with a few tweaks, since, as +Fellay said, it's 95% Catholic [that's the line of Athanasius Schneider to which +Vigano object in one of his first moves to Traditional Catholicism].  SSPX are right there with all the conservative Conciliar Novus Ordites who believe that V2 is Catholic, but just badly implemented, with a few things here or there that need to be corrected, but it's here to stay and mostly Catholic, and we just need the right conservative "Pope" to right the ship, and SSPX will be just a part of that progression in the Church.  Traditional Catholics used to believe almost to a person that V2 needs to be declared completely null and the Church restored entirely to the pre-Vatican II condition.

    Offline Matthew

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    Re: SSPX Seminary Numbers
    « Reply #10 on: April 25, 2025, 12:32:12 AM »
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  • Do these priests have any love for souls whatsoever?  If I were in charge, I wouldn't be able to sleep at night if I were not getting the Sacraments to as many of the faithful as I possibly could, and I could never spent 50 million on a seminary or 25 million on a church when the money could be better spent elsewhere at chapels throughout the country ... for the good of souls and the glory of God, not the glory of +Fellay and the SSPX.

    I sometimes think about Fr. Slupski who was my priest from age 3 to about 23. I took my Faith seriously because he took it so seriously. He did tons of travelling to bring Mass to as many people as he physically could. It definitely made me value the Mass more. Just seeing how fervent, earnest, and NOT hypocritical he was. The whole "Catholic religion" thing seemed so serious, so important, like there was an epic battle for souls in progress.

    It's probably one of the causes of my own "temporary" vocation to spend a few years at a seminary. Which incidentally did me IMMENSE good that affects my life to the present day -- it formed who I am. Not an hour of my life goes by that wouldn't be drastically different if I hadn't spent those years at S.T.A.S.
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    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX Seminary Numbers
    « Reply #11 on: April 25, 2025, 12:43:57 AM »
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  • I sometimes think about Fr. Slupski who was my priest from age 3 to about 23. I took my Faith seriously because he took it so seriously. He did tons of travelling to bring Mass to as many people as he physically could. It definitely made me value the Mass more. Just seeing how fervent, earnest, and NOT hypocritical he was. The whole "Catholic religion" thing seemed so serious, so important, like there was an epic battle for souls in progress.

    It's probably one of the causes of my own "temporary" vocation to spend a few years at a seminary. Which incidentally did me IMMENSE good that affects my life to the present day -- it formed who I am. Not an hour of my life goes by that wouldn't be drastically different if I hadn't spent those years at S.T.A.S.

    Father Leo Carley in Akron ... at the age of 90 still offers daily Mass, Confessions, 2 Masses on Holy Days, did the Holy Week Liturgies ... and drives to West Virginia still (has refused offers from several people to drive him) on Sundays, so that he offers 2 Masses every Sunday, and he's been BY HIMSELF since the mid-1970s.

    Mass at 9:00 AM every day, and he's in the Confessional by 8:30 on weekdays, and 8:00 on Sundays.  Then on Sundays, about 10:15, he makes the one-hour-45-minute drive to West Virginia to offer Mass there at 12:30 (getting in the Confessional as soon as he gets there ... it's a much smaller chapel), and gets back in as needed afterwards, getting him back to Akron close to 4PM on Sunday.

    In the early days of the United States, priests often would get on horseback and travel for weeks by themselves into the wilderness in search of souls who needed the Sacraments.

    Modern SSPX like to have a half dozen priests sitting around eating expensive food and drinking expensive wine all week ... while the faithful at many chapels go without the Sacraments except on Sundays.

    Offline ElwinRansom1970

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    Re: SSPX Seminary Numbers
    « Reply #12 on: April 25, 2025, 04:41:45 AM »
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  • US$420,000 in Spring 1988 when the Winona property was purchased would be US$1,103,700 in Spring 2025 when adjusted for inflation.

    What was the final cost again to build the Virginia seminary?

    The Dominican noviate building in Winona was a beautiful structure with an amazing landscape surrounding it. Although not as "homey" as Ridgefield, the Winona seminary felt warm, comfortable, and "Catholic", especially since it had been built in the heyday of academic gothic architecture in US Catholic Church.

    The Virginia seminary looks like a Central European prison. I have never visited there, but suspect it feels "institutional" like a prison or public high school (Is that redundant?).
    "I distrust every idea that does not seem obsolete and grotesque to my contemporaries."
    Nicolás Gómez Dávila

    Offline Everlast22

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    Re: SSPX Seminary Numbers
    « Reply #13 on: April 25, 2025, 08:23:10 AM »
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  • The amount of materialistic Catholics, trad or not, are at an all time high. 

    Gotta be loved by the world too, ya know...



    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX Seminary Numbers
    « Reply #14 on: April 25, 2025, 09:20:25 AM »
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  • US$420,000 in Spring 1988 when the Winona property was purchased would be US$1,103,700 in Spring 2025 when adjusted for inflation.

    What was the final cost again to build the Virginia seminary?

    Yes, I wasn't sure of the inflation, but last I heard Virginia seminary cost $50 million and there's a lot left undone (like an actual chapel).