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Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: Mr G on June 06, 2019, 12:16:14 PM

Title: SSPX says "Canon Law requires pastors to keep a parish census book"
Post by: Mr G on June 06, 2019, 12:16:14 PM
https://smac.edu/sites/sspx/files/media/bulletin_06_02_2019.pdf

I have seen announcements before requesting people to fill out census card, but this is the first time I have ever seen a note that Canon law requires" it. Does anyone know if other SSPX chapels have the same note about Canon law?

"ASSUMPTION CHAPEL  INFORMATION FORMS
 Canon Law requires pastors  to keep a parish census book.  All attending Mass or receiving  sacraments at Assumption Chapel are requested to complete the Information Form available in the vestibule and at the switchboard.  This includes those 18 and above even if still living at home. "

 
Title: Re: SSPX says "Canon Law requires pastors to keep a parish census book"
Post by: Ladislaus on June 06, 2019, 02:19:29 PM
I wouldn't fill one out.  While Canon Law may require that a pastor take a census, it probably does not require that the lay people actually take the census.
Title: Re: SSPX says "Canon Law requires pastors to keep a parish census book"
Post by: Incredulous on June 06, 2019, 02:30:43 PM



(https://proxy.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fs-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com%2F736x%2Fe6%2F9c%2Ff4%2Fe69cf46d403b838f36791e694390539f.jpg&f=1)
Title: Re: SSPX says "Canon Law requires pastors to keep a parish census book"
Post by: TKGS on June 06, 2019, 09:05:53 PM
I wouldn't fill one out.  While Canon Law may require that a pastor take a census, it probably does not require that the lay people actually take the census.
Furthermore, no SSPX chapel is a cononically erected "parish" and the priests of the parish aren't pastors appointed by the diocesan bishop.
Title: Re: SSPX says "Canon Law requires pastors to keep a parish census book"
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on June 06, 2019, 09:17:47 PM
Furthermore, no SSPX chapel is a cononically erected "parish" and the priests of the parish aren't pastors appointed by the diocesan bishop.
Excellent. I’m glad I’m not the only one who hates using those terms when describing a traditional chapel. 
Title: Re: SSPX says "Canon Law requires pastors to keep a parish census book"
Post by: SeanJohnson on June 06, 2019, 09:58:29 PM
I wouldn't fill one out.  While Canon Law may require that a pastor take a census, it probably does not require that the lay people actually take the census.

Correct.

I haven't filled one out in 10 years.

For those who do, they become subject to the ordinary jurisdiction of the conciliar SSPX.

Get it?

Sounds like the SSPX is trying to collect all the souls it feels it has misled over the years, and ensure they are included in the great absolution which will occur when the formal deal is announced, to pacify their now scrupulous conscience for rejecting the...ahem...."official church."
Title: Re: SSPX says "Canon Law requires pastors to keep a parish census book"
Post by: apollo on June 06, 2019, 10:59:50 PM
Bishop Williamson said that SSPX has "supplied jurisdiction".  They have always had
"supplied jurisdiction".  He said that SSPX has no power to keep people as members
of their chapels.  People are free to come and go as they please.  And, if nobody goes
to an SSPX chapel, they lose jurisdiction.  

So, the question is ...

HOW DID SSPX in Saint Marys GET THE AUTHORITY TO DEMAND PEOPLE FILL OUT
A CENSUS CARD ??

Logical conclusion: SSPX has an agreement with Rome and keeps it secret OR they
are lying about having the authority to demand census cards be filled out.

Either way, I'm not filling one out.



Title: Re: SSPX says "Canon Law requires pastors to keep a parish census book"
Post by: apollo on June 06, 2019, 11:19:52 PM
Next step:  You get an ID card in the mail with a computer chip in it,
which you have to scan at the chapel door to be admitted for Mass,
baptism, confession, etc.

And, of course, you cannot be buried in the cemetery without an ID card.
Fr. Rutledge was reluctant to have a funeral Mass for a guy who was in
the Resistance.  
Title: Re: SSPX says "Canon Law requires pastors to keep a parish census book"
Post by: Pax Vobis on June 07, 2019, 02:01:20 AM
I think this is just a way for the new-sspx to keep a tally on how many attend their chapels.  So +Fellay can brag about how big their society is.  And to also see if they are losing members.  Maybe to calculate $ contributions per family.  +Fellay runs the new-sspx like a corporation, just like new-rome runs the conciliar Church.  You gotta have metrics to showcase at the next annual business meeting (er...I mean, annual chapter meeting).
Title: Re: SSPX says "Canon Law requires pastors to keep a parish census book"
Post by: Matthew on June 07, 2019, 08:26:11 AM
I wouldn't fill one out.  While Canon Law may require that a pastor take a census, it probably does not require that the lay people actually take the census.

But you miss an important point:

None of the SSPX priests are "pastors" with jurisdiction. They are lifeboat residents in an emergency situation. (Of course, this is rapidly changing. They already are part of Conciliar Rome in all but name only, but I digress.)

I'm sure every cruise ship is required by the government to have a passenger manifest. But are official records made when people are loading onto lifeboats when the main boat is sinking -- does each lifeboat keep official paperwork? NO!  I think it would get wet. Lifeboats are small, and using them is by nature hasty, and usually during an emergency.
Title: Re: SSPX says "Canon Law requires pastors to keep a parish census book"
Post by: AlligatorDicax on June 07, 2019, 02:40:57 PM

Bishop Williamson said that SSPX has "supplied jurisdiction". [....]  He said that SSPX has no power to keep people as members of their chapels. [....]  Logical conclusion: SSPX has an agreement with Rome and keeps it secret OR they are lying about having the authority to demand census cards be filled out.

Being an outsider, I can't claim any, um, sensus SSPXus, but couldn't this "census" be more readily explained as an attempt to bluff attendees of SSPX Masses and recipients of SSPX sacraments into providing docuмents that can be used as a basis for follow-on, ummm, "requests" for donations?

Some Novus Ordo parishes seem to have abandoned all subtlety, e.g., annually supplying parishoners-of-record with preaddressed envelopes bearing individually-identifying bar-codes [‡], to be used for regularly mailing donations to their parish.  I believe that I've even seen mention of a concept of being behind schedule on contributions, but perhaps that was in the context of tuition for a parochial school.

There is a fundamental prohibition in Canon Law on any quid pro quo in which a donation is treated by clergy as a requirement for reception of the sacraments [†].  How close the modernized process approaches a violation of Canon Law is an issue that I'll leave to be debated by CathIinfo members who are more familiar with Canon Law than I am.[*]

-------
Note *: 1917/1918 C.I.C. compilation of Pius "SSPX" X via Benedict XV, please.

Note ‡: Some privacy could be maintained for parishoners if there were no human-readable return addresses on those envelopes.  But placing cash into a traditional long-handled collection basket preserves privacy even more effectively, and doesn't depend on parish employees or volunteers meticulously following a parish's privacy rules.

Note †: I assume that this was a reform at the Council of Trent that was motivated by the "indulgences" scandal that fueled early antiCatholic preaching during the Protestant-Revolt.
Title: Re: SSPX says "Canon Law requires pastors to keep a parish census book"
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on June 07, 2019, 04:45:36 PM
But you miss an important point:

None of the SSPX priests are "pastors" with jurisdiction. They are lifeboat residents in an emergency situation. (Of course, this is rapidly changing. They already are part of Conciliar Rome in all but name only, but I digress.)

I'm sure every cruise ship is required by the government to have a passenger manifest. But are official records made when people are loading onto lifeboats when the main boat is sinking -- does each lifeboat keep official paperwork? NO!  I think it would get wet. Lifeboats are small, and using them is by nature hasty, and usually during an emergency.
Excellent point.
Title: Re: SSPX says "Canon Law requires pastors to keep a parish census book"
Post by: poche on June 08, 2019, 01:16:08 AM
Next step:  You get an ID card in the mail with a computer chip in it,
which you have to scan at the chapel door to be admitted for Mass,
baptism, confession, etc.

And, of course, you cannot be buried in the cemetery without an ID card.
Fr. Rutledge was reluctant to have a funeral Mass for a guy who was in
the Resistance.  
When you die will you need an ID card to get into Heaven?
Title: Re: SSPX says "Canon Law requires pastors to keep a parish census book"
Post by: Kolar on June 09, 2019, 11:37:58 PM
I believe that the Baptismal Character is the normal ID required to get into heaven. There may be exceptions.
Title: Re: SSPX says "Canon Law requires pastors to keep a parish census book"
Post by: JmJ2cents on June 12, 2019, 04:52:56 PM
Someone told me that an elderly lady died in St. Marys that belonged to the Resistance had purchased a plot long before she died and she wanted to have a Resistance priest bury her there but Fr.Rutledge would not allow it so she had to be buried in a different cemetery.  I would think this is illegal.  If she owned the plot then she would have an easement to get there legally.  
Title: Re: SSPX says "Canon Law requires pastors to keep a parish census book"
Post by: SeanJohnson on June 12, 2019, 05:05:48 PM
Someone told me that an elderly lady died in St. Marys that belonged to the Resistance had purchased a plot long before she died and she wanted to have a Resistance priest bury her there but Fr.Rutledge would not allow it so she had to be buried in a different cemetery.  I would think this is illegal.  If she owned the plot then she would have an easement to get there legally.  

How about SSPX priests in that town not wanting to respond to a request for extreme unction from a dying man because he was Resistance?

Those in St. Mary's will know the story.

As for Fr. Rutledge, he is a member of the notorious class of 2009: The first non-Williamson class.

He is most famous for this sermon:

https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/militant-anti-resistance-sermon-in-st-paul-mn/ (https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/militant-anti-resistance-sermon-in-st-paul-mn/)
Title: Re: SSPX says "Canon Law requires pastors to keep a parish census book"
Post by: homeschoolmom on June 12, 2019, 05:59:38 PM
How about SSPX priests in that town not wanting to respond to a request for extreme unction from a dying man because he was Resistance?

Those in St. Mary's will know the story.

:o 

Isn't this gravely sinful on their parts? It's a difference of opinion about whether the SSPX ought to be cozying up to unconverted Rome. Bottom line, removing all pride and other human frailties, that's all it comes down to. There is no way that legitimately warrants withholding sacraments. I know some priests have been trying to control the people under the threat of withholding the sacraments, but to take such a grudge to this point even in life and death is just shocking to hear. 
Title: Re: SSPX says "Canon Law requires pastors to keep a parish census book"
Post by: homeschoolmom on June 12, 2019, 06:19:38 PM
As for Fr. Rutledge, he is a member of the notorious class of 2009: The first non-Williamson class.

Did you mean the first anti-Williamson class? ;)
Title: Re: SSPX says "Canon Law requires pastors to keep a parish census book"
Post by: Nadir on June 12, 2019, 06:36:27 PM
Someone told me that an elderly lady died in St. Marys that belonged to the Resistance had purchased a plot long before she died and she wanted to have a Resistance priest bury her there but Fr.Rutledge would not allow it so she had to be buried in a different cemetery.  I would think this is illegal.  If she owned the plot then she would have an easement to get there legally.  
Our resident funeral director and good source of information on all things to do with burial would be worthwaking up for a comment on this. I wonder if he is stirring?
.
Was the estate out of pocket or did SSPX cover the extra cost?
.
My own mother donated among other things an almost lifesize imageof the Blessed Virgin of Guadalupe and specified time after time that it was to go to  a house of religious or a church. Against my mother's expressed desire it was auctioned to the highest bidder at a fundraising function.
Title: Re: SSPX says "Canon Law requires pastors to keep a parish census book"
Post by: Quo vadis Domine on June 12, 2019, 06:48:27 PM
:o

Isn't this gravely sinful on their parts? It's a difference of opinion about whether the SSPX ought to be cozying up to unconverted Rome. Bottom line, removing all pride and other human frailties, that's all it comes down to. There is no way that legitimately warrants withholding sacraments. I know some priests have been trying to control the people under the threat of withholding the sacraments, but to take such a grudge to this point even in life and death is just shocking to hear.
You bet it’s a mortal sin! Priests who engage in this activity will have much to answer for.
Title: Re: SSPX says "Canon Law requires pastors to keep a parish census book"
Post by: Nadir on June 12, 2019, 07:26:05 PM
Our resident funeral director and good source of information on all things to do with burial would be worthwaking up for a comment on this. I wonder if he is stirring?
I mean here Moneil.