Author Topic: SSPX Rome Agreement and Despair (Read 11001 times)

SeanJohnson · « **Reply #5 on:** October 09, 2012, 09:30:00 PM »

Again:

Generally another good post.

And as a father of many children, I see things in the same light.

Where I would disagree is with your opinion that we still have 3 bishops against the one.

In reality we have one bishop who will oppose Menzingen with words, but as yet has not taken any concrete actions to oppose this policy.

Then we have the 2 other bishops who voted for the scandalous declaration and 6 conditions left dangling before the Romans to re-enter negotiations for a merely practical accord at any time.

These latter may (or may not) be with us privately, but they also have said or done nothing to oppose the scandalous declaration and 6 conditions.

So the reality is that we have 1 bishop who opposes with words, and 2 who absent themselves from the entire debate, versus 1 in Menzingen who acts with robust measures to accomplish his objective.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to predict who will win if things continue like this.

Quote from: bowler

Quote from: Seraphim

It would involve being cut off from the sacraments (voluntarily, in the case of an agreement with Rome, for all the reasons we cannot attent FSSP Masses; voluntarily by a further liberalization of the SSPX that manifests itself in doctrinal corruption; involuntarily, by being shown the door at the local parish for not going along with the preparation for a sellout, or protesting the liberalizations already accomplished)

How the battle is fought depends on the situation of each person. Single men have no one but themselves to put at risk, and their decision is their decision.
I'm not concerned for those single young men, and even those older marrieds without children, they are adults and can decide for themselves.

My concern is with the family man with children, and that is a totally different story. His decision will affect his wife and children. The father must be prudent in his actions. A rash decision, an emotion filled fast decision, can affect the whole family for life. A father must be "wise as a snake, and meek as a dove". I do not recommend that any family man take a position of direct hostile opposition to any changes, without exhausting all other avenues. The attitude of the family man should be one of a wise underground resistance. Like for instance posting the "goings on" at his chapel, and news, about "further liberalization of the SSPX that manifestations of doctrinal corruption", and speaking out against the injustice, the harshness of "showing the door" to those that disagree.

Here's another example, right now, we have 75% of the SSPX bishops on our side. The other side is most imprudent to ignore the majority of bishops, specially since they (accordistas) are advocating change. They are advocating change from what has always been, and they are ignoring 3 bishops, to go along with one. Two strikes against them, they are in the minority, and they advocate change. Can 3 bishops be crazy in not wanting these changes, and 1 bishop correct in wanting to change what has always been? This is a prudent argument, you are not against anything, you only consider it imprudent to disregard the 3 bishops, and go for change.

Hobbledehoy · « **Reply #6 on:** October 09, 2012, 10:54:47 PM »

The victory of the faithful over the insidious attacks of the votaries of anti-Christ will be granted through the maternal solicitude, sweet patronage and dread power of the great Mother of God, the Immaculate Virgin Mary.

It shall be by her Holy Rosary and Sacred Scapular that the liberty and exaltation of Holy Mother Church, together with the enfranchisement of Christendom by the acknowledgment of the social kingship of Our Lord Jesus Christ, shall be granted to those who persevere in the ceaseless war with the infernal powers and their human abettors (Eph. cap. vi., 12), as well as against the concupiscence of the flesh, the concupiscence of the eyes and the pride of life (I S. Joann. cap. ii., 16) by penance and mortification.

Here is a translation of the Marian adaptation of Psalm cxliii written by the great Seraphic Doctor, Saint Bonaventure: to be found in the latter of his works in the tome The Mirror of the Blessed Virgin Mary (Speculum Beatae Mariae Virginis) and The Psalter of Our Lady (Psalterium Beatae Mariae Virginis) (trans. Sr. Mary Emmanuel, O.S.B.; St. Louis, MO: B. Herder Book Co., 1932).

Francisco · « **Reply #7 on:** October 10, 2012, 12:18:51 AM »

Quote from: Hobbledehoy

The victory of the faithful over the insidious attacks of the votaries of anti-Christ will be granted through the maternal solicitude, sweet patronage and dread power of the great Mother of God, the Immaculate Virgin Mary.

It shall be by her Holy Rosary and Sacred Scapular that the liberty and exaltation of Holy Mother Church, together with the enfranchisement of Christendom by the acknowledgment of the social kingship of Our Lord Jesus Christ, shall be granted to those who persevere in the ceaseless war with the infernal powers and their human abettors (Eph. cap. vi., 12), as well as against the concupiscence of the flesh, the concupiscence of the eyes and the pride of life (I S. Joann. cap. ii., 16) by penance and mortification.

Here is a translation of the Marian adaptation of Psalm cxliii written by the great Seraphic Doctor, Saint Bonaventure: to be found in the latter of his works in the tome The Mirror of the Blessed Virgin Mary (Speculum Beatae Mariae Virginis) and The Psalter of Our Lady (Psalterium Beatae Mariae Virginis) (trans. Sr. Mary Emmanuel, O.S.B.; St. Louis, MO: B. Herder Book Co., 1932).

Thanks very much for this post!

bowler · « **Reply #8 on:** October 10, 2012, 09:05:39 AM »

Quote from: Seraphim

Where I would disagree is with your opinion that we still have 3 bishops against the one.

In reality we have one bishop who will oppose Menzingen with words, but as yet has not taken any concrete actions to oppose this policy.

Then we have the 2 other bishops who voted for the scandalous declaration and 6 conditions left dangling before the Romans to re-enter negotiations for a merely practical accord at any time.

These latter may (or may not) be with us privately, but they also have said or done nothing to oppose the scandalous declaration and 6 conditions.

So the reality is that we have 1 bishop who opposes with words, and 2 who absent themselves from the entire debate, versus 1 in Menzingen who acts with robust measures to accomplish his objective.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to predict who will win if things continue like this.

Bishop Tissier de Mallerais spoke against the accord at the ordinations in Winona, Bishop de Galarreta has spoken publicly against it too. They have publicly and many times come out against any agreement with Rome. Therefore, I don't see how you conclude as you do with regard to my comment that we have three bishops on our side.

As far as your comment that "It doesn't take a rocket scientist to predict who will win if things continue like this", I totally disagree with you. It is defeatest to think that way. Menzingen crowd are just a few people, a house of cards. They can be toppled. Why do you think they are so affraid of the internet forums? If they had the power that you believe, they would care less about the internet forums.

Very few priests are running this Novus-SSPX facade. If we eliminated three priests in the USA, the whole thing would topple there, and the Novus SSPX in South America is hanging on by a thread. Those are two big continents, others can comment on France and Europe.

Ethelred · « **Reply #9 on:** October 10, 2012, 09:21:17 AM »

Quote from: bowler

Those are two big continents, others can comment on France and Europe.

The poor French district superior doesn't even dare to confirm in private what he and the other ~100 priests, professors etc from France have been told by Bp Fellay himself one or so months ago, when Bp F said to them that he would have been deceived by the Newpope...
(See the quotations of Dump Ox, also here on Cathinfo).

And when this French district superior publicly attacked Assisi III a while ago, he got formally admonished by Bp Fellay. So it looks like now he's been put in line with Menzingen.
(Fr. Chazal tells the whole Asissi III story in one of his recent sermons.)

And concerning the other big district, the German one: let's forget it, too. Its district superior Fr. Schmidberger always follow those who have "the power".

Well, Menzingen does only tolerate superiors who're yes-men. (Maybe also Fr. Chazal said so, but I forgot.)