It would involve being cut off from the sacraments (voluntarily, in the case of an agreement with Rome, for all the reasons we cannot attent FSSP Masses; voluntarily by a further liberalization of the SSPX that manifests itself in doctrinal corruption; involuntarily, by being shown the door at the local parish for not going along with the preparation for a sellout, or protesting the liberalizations already accomplished)
The greatest help for me not to dispair is to always keep in mind that God brings good out of all negatives. When I came to the realization that I had to stop atttending the NO mass and stick exclusively with the TLM I did so believing that it was God who was motivating me and He would undertake for me and show me what to do. I was at the local SSPX within 2 weeks, and I didn't know anything about their group except their name and did not know where the chapel was when I made the decision. I had never heard of ABL because I was a convert. So, God is ABLE and WILLING to back up our good decisions in His grace at all times.
Quote from: Seraphim
It would involve being cut off from the sacraments (voluntarily, in the case of an agreement with Rome, for all the reasons we cannot attent FSSP Masses; voluntarily by a further liberalization of the SSPX that manifests itself in doctrinal corruption; involuntarily, by being shown the door at the local parish for not going along with the preparation for a sellout, or protesting the liberalizations already accomplished)
How the battle is fought depends on the situation of each person. Single men have no one but themselves to put at risk, and their decision is their decision.
I'm not concerned for those single young men, and even those older marrieds without children, they are adults and can decide for themselves.
My concern is with the family man with children, and that is a totally different story. His decision will affect his wife and children. The father must be prudent in his actions. A rash decision, an emotion filled fast decision, can affect the whole family for life. A father must be "wise as a snake, and meek as a dove". I do not recommend that any family man take a position of direct hostile opposition to any changes, without exhausting all other avenues. The attitude of the family man should be one of a wise underground resistance. Like for instance posting the "goings on" at his chapel, and news, about "further liberalization of the SSPX that manifestations of doctrinal corruption", and speaking out against the injustice, the harshness of "showing the door" to those that disagree.
Here's another example, right now, we have 75% of the SSPX bishops on our side. The other side is most imprudent to ignore the majority of bishops, specially since they (accordistas) are advocating change. They are advocating change from what has always been, and they are ignoring 3 bishops, to go along with one. Two strikes against them, they are in the minority, and they advocate change. Can 3 bishops be crazy in not wanting these changes, and 1 bishop correct in wanting to change what has always been? This is a prudent argument, you are not against anything, you only consider it imprudent to disregard the 3 bishops, and go for change.
(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d89/platonic123/Sacred%20Miscellany/Immaculata2.jpg)
The victory of the faithful over the insidious attacks of the votaries of anti-Christ will be granted through the maternal solicitude, sweet patronage and dread power of the great Mother of God, the Immaculate Virgin Mary.
It shall be by her Holy Rosary and Sacred Scapular that the liberty and exaltation of Holy Mother Church, together with the enfranchisement of Christendom by the acknowledgment of the social kingship of Our Lord Jesus Christ, shall be granted to those who persevere in the ceaseless war with the infernal powers and their human abettors (Eph. cap. vi., 12), as well as against the concupiscence of the flesh, the concupiscence of the eyes and the pride of life (I S. Joann. cap. ii., 16) by penance and mortification.
Here is a translation of the Marian adaptation of Psalm cxliii written by the great Seraphic Doctor, Saint Bonaventure: to be found in the latter of his works in the tome The Mirror of the Blessed Virgin Mary (Speculum Beatae Mariae Virginis) and The Psalter of Our Lady (Psalterium Beatae Mariae Virginis) (trans. Sr. Mary Emmanuel, O.S.B.; St. Louis, MO: B. Herder Book Co., 1932).(http://i33.photobucket.com/albums/d89/platonic123/Sacred%20Texts/Even%20More%20Sacred%20Texts/Ps144PsaltBMV.jpg)
Where I would disagree is with your opinion that we still have 3 bishops against the one.
In reality we have one bishop who will oppose Menzingen with words, but as yet has not taken any concrete actions to oppose this policy.
Then we have the 2 other bishops who voted for the scandalous declaration and 6 conditions left dangling before the Romans to re-enter negotiations for a merely practical accord at any time.
These latter may (or may not) be with us privately, but they also have said or done nothing to oppose the scandalous declaration and 6 conditions.
So the reality is that we have 1 bishop who opposes with words, and 2 who absent themselves from the entire debate, versus 1 in Menzingen who acts with robust measures to accomplish his objective.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to predict who will win if things continue like this.
Those are two big continents, others can comment on France and Europe.
What an insightful and thoughtful piece, bowler. Thank you very much!
Quote from: bowlerThose are two big continents, others can comment on France and Europe.
The poor French district superior doesn't even dare to confirm in private what he and the other ~100 priests, professors etc from France have been told by Bp Fellay himself one or so months ago, when Bp F said to them that he would have been deceived by the Newpope...
(See the quotations of Dump Ox, also here on Cathinfo).
And when this French district superior publicly attacked Assisi III a while ago, he got formally admonished by Bp Fellay. So it looks like now he's been put in line with Menzingen.
(Fr. Chazal tells the whole Asissi III story in one of his recent sermons.)
And concerning the other big district, the German one: let's forget it, too. Its district superior Fr. Schmidberger always follow those who have "the power".
Well, Menzingen does only tolerate superiors who're yes-men. (Maybe also Fr. Chazal said so, but I forgot.)
Quote from: SkunkwurxsspxWhat an insightful and thoughtful piece, bowler. Thank you very much!
Do you have any relation to this brave Mexican hero?:
(http://s.ecrater.com/stores/160817/4bd152a29715a_160817n.jpg)
The Society priests are under enormous pressure. However, it is true "Menzingen crowd are just a few people, a house of cards. They can be toppled".
Naturally Bishop Fellay got his Yes men in the key positions in advance of a deal with Rome but things haven't gone to plan.It's obvious to state Bishop Fellay has problems.There is opposition as the latest letter from South America indicates.
Where I would disagree is with your opinion that we still have 3 bishops against the one.
In reality we have one bishop who will oppose Menzingen with words, but as yet has not taken any concrete actions to oppose this policy.
Then we have the 2 other bishops who voted for the scandalous declaration and 6 conditions left dangling before the Romans to re-enter negotiations for a merely practical accord at any time.
These latter may (or may not) be with us privately, but they also have said or done nothing to oppose the scandalous declaration and 6 conditions.
So the reality is that we have 1 bishop who opposes with words, and 2 who absent themselves from the entire debate, versus 1 in Menzingen who acts with robust measures to accomplish his objective.
It doesn't take a rocket scientist to predict who will win if things continue like this.
Quote from: JuanDiegoThe greatest help for me not to dispair is to always keep in mind that God brings good out of all negatives. When I came to the realization that I had to stop atttending the NO mass and stick exclusively with the TLM I did so believing that it was God who was motivating me and He would undertake for me and show me what to do. I was at the local SSPX within 2 weeks, and I didn't know anything about their group except their name and did not know where the chapel was when I made the decision. I had never heard of ABL because I was a convert. So, God is ABLE and WILLING to back up our good decisions in His grace at all times.
Yes, JuanDiego, God will not let us down, if we do not let Him down, though it may be different than what we think.
Quote from: magdalenaQuote from: JuanDiegoThe greatest help for me not to dispair is to always keep in mind that God brings good out of all negatives. When I came to the realization that I had to stop atttending the NO mass and stick exclusively with the TLM I did so believing that it was God who was motivating me and He would undertake for me and show me what to do. I was at the local SSPX within 2 weeks, and I didn't know anything about their group except their name and did not know where the chapel was when I made the decision. I had never heard of ABL because I was a convert. So, God is ABLE and WILLING to back up our good decisions in His grace at all times.
Yes, JuanDiego, God will not let us down, if we do not let Him down, though it may be different than what we think.
To clear up any misunderstanding, my point was that if we abandon God, He will leave us to our own devices. And if we do not abandon God, He will bring us to that which He desires for our salvation, though it may contain much tribulation and suffering. Onward soldiers!
You are not up to speed with the facts:
1) All their public statements against a practical accord preceded the General Chapter.
2) They have made no public statements against an accord since the General Chapter.
3) They both voted for the General Chapter Declaration, which was an official act of the SSPX allowing a practical accord before the doctrinal issues were resolved with the Romans.
4) They both voted for the still-standing scandalous 6 conditions, which exist as a perpetual invitation for Rome to re-approach the SSPX with a merely practical accord.
5) Their inaction, coupled with their silence, tell the world that they will go along with Menzingen, whatever they may think interiorly.
6) And in this way, they present a shocking repetition of what happened at Varican II: Unity over doctrine and tradition.
Quote from: Seraphim
You are not up to speed with the facts:
1) All their public statements against a practical accord preceded the General Chapter.
2) They have made no public statements against an accord since the General Chapter.
3) They both voted for the General Chapter Declaration, which was an official act of the SSPX allowing a practical accord before the doctrinal issues were resolved with the Romans.
4) They both voted for the still-standing scandalous 6 conditions, which exist as a perpetual invitation for Rome to re-approach the SSPX with a merely practical accord.
5) Their inaction, coupled with their silence, tell the world that they will go along with Menzingen, whatever they may think interiorly.
6) And in this way, they present a shocking repetition of what happened at Varican II: Unity over doctrine and tradition.
Thanks for the lesson. Nevertheless, they are not happy with the accord, and most important, they are not part of the Menzingen crowd.
The M crowd are only a few people, a stack of cards that can be brought down. The M crowd is composed of Bishop Fellay and a few people in key positions. Those few people were put into those positions they are in, not because they are qualified to do the best job, but because they are obedient to Fellay. They are like the appointments of Stalin. Stalin got rid of everyone that was qualified, and put in the people that were obidient to him.
Fr. Rostand is out of his league at responding to the internet forums questions, because he is not qualified to be a district superior. Fellay does not appoint qualified people, he appoints people obedient to him.
All who do not oppose the accord are part of the Menzingen crowd by default.
There's undoubtedly more to what's going on here than meets the eye.
The Jєωs and Freemasons will help to ensure Bishop Fellay's continued control of the SSPX, and there are probably many threats of various kinds being made to keep priests and the bishops under control.
This is a deadly serious matter to the enemies of the Church.
Seraphim is right.
+Fellay has stacked the deck with his mediocre "yes" men and the rest seem to be frightened into silence. I have waited in vain for one of the other Bishops to stand up and lead the charge .... instead ... a complete lack of action. Quo vadis, Your Lordships?
O God, come to our aid. O Lord, make haste to help us. Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us.
Quote from: TelesphorusThere's undoubtedly more to what's going on here than meets the eye.
The Jєωs and Freemasons will help to ensure Bishop Fellay's continued control of the SSPX, and there are probably many threats of various kinds being made to keep priests and the bishops under control.
Yep.
(http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=I.4893939878133957&pid=1.7&w=226&h=149)
The Little Man Behind the Curtain
The Wizard of Oz, in his most embarrassing moment, thunders through a microphone that the Dorothy and her companions should ignore the little man who stands revealed when Toto pulls the curtain aside with his little teeth. "PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE LITTLE MAN BEHIND THE CURTAIN!" bellows the great Mask of Oz the Terrible.
Perhaps, instead, it is about time we began paying some attention to the little man behind the curtain (Bishop Fellay). His switches and controls have something to do with what we are experiencing, more than he would have us know.
He is just a Little Man hiding behind a big thundering screen! Do not be scared by him, he can be defeated. God is with us.
A good example of how God is with us, and in control, was that when the Fellay was ready to sign the accord on the dotted line, the pope asked for two new capitulations, and then he appointed a hardline progressivist (heretic) Bishop Mueller. Bishop Fellay was ready to sign, and God put a roadblock in front of him. God is in control.
Quote from: DomitillaSeraphim is right.
+Fellay has stacked the deck with his mediocre "yes" men and the rest seem to be frightened into silence. I have waited in vain for one of the other Bishops to stand up and lead the charge .... instead ... a complete lack of action. Quo vadis, Your Lordships?
O God, come to our aid. O Lord, make haste to help us. Our Lady of Fatima, pray for us.
"And Jacob boiled pottage: to whom Esau, coming faint out of the field, said: Give me of this red pottage, for I am exceeding faint. For which reason his name was called Edom. And Jacob said to him: Swear therefore to me. Esau swore to him, and sold his first birthright. And so taking bread and the pottage of lentils, he ate, and drank, and went his way; making little account of having sold his first birthright." Genesis 25: 29-34
Pope St. Pius X, pray for us.
Generally a decent post.
I would opine, however, that the worst case scenario is a bit worse than the one you paint.
It would involve being cut off from the sacraments (voluntarily, in the case of an agreement with Rome, for all the reasons we cannot attent FSSP Masses; voluntarily by a further liberalization of the SSPX that manifests itself in doctrinal corruption; involuntarily, by being shown the door at the local parish for not going along with the preparation for a sellout, or protesting the liberalizations already accomplished).
But the general reminder that God is in charge is a good point, as is the reminder that there is no cause for despair because of that, whatever the worst case scenario.
PS: And I would probabley be one of those you consider a "fighter," simply because when you perceive that what you have is being taken from you, acquiescense or resistence are the only 2 options, and I have chosen the latter.
Quote from: SeraphimGenerally a decent post.
I would opine, however, that the worst case scenario is a bit worse than the one you paint.
It would involve being cut off from the sacraments (voluntarily, in the case of an agreement with Rome, for all the reasons we cannot attent FSSP Masses; voluntarily by a further liberalization of the SSPX that manifests itself in doctrinal corruption; involuntarily, by being shown the door at the local parish for not going along with the preparation for a sellout, or protesting the liberalizations already accomplished).
But the general reminder that God is in charge is a good point, as is the reminder that there is no cause for despair because of that, whatever the worst case scenario.
PS: And I would probabley be one of those you consider a "fighter," simply because when you perceive that what you have is being taken from you, acquiescense or resistence are the only 2 options, and I have chosen the latter.
Worst case scenario is being denied communion and police called to remove you... (better then being burned at the stake like St Joan of ARc.
Quote from: Viva Cristo ReyQuote from: SeraphimGenerally a decent post.
I would opine, however, that the worst case scenario is a bit worse than the one you paint.
It would involve being cut off from the sacraments (voluntarily, in the case of an agreement with Rome, for all the reasons we cannot attent FSSP Masses; voluntarily by a further liberalization of the SSPX that manifests itself in doctrinal corruption; involuntarily, by being shown the door at the local parish for not going along with the preparation for a sellout, or protesting the liberalizations already accomplished).
But the general reminder that God is in charge is a good point, as is the reminder that there is no cause for despair because of that, whatever the worst case scenario.
PS: And I would probabley be one of those you consider a "fighter," simply because when you perceive that what you have is being taken from you, acquiescense or resistence are the only 2 options, and I have chosen the latter.
Worst case scenario is being denied communion and police called to remove you... (better then being burned at the stake like St Joan of ARc.
Now they just resort to character assasination and commitment to loony bins. However, in the not too distant future, there may well be death camps. St. Joan of Arc, pray for us.
:pray: :heretic:
Quote from: magdalenaQuote from: Viva Cristo Rey
Worst case scenario is being denied communion and police called to remove you... (better then being burned at the stake like St Joan of ARc.
Now they just resort to character assasination and commitment to loony bins. However, in the not too distant future, there may well be death camps. St. Joan of Arc, pray for us.
:pray: :heretic:
We're talking about the Bishop Fellay and the Novus-SSPX. You are getting carried away.
And with regards to death camps, or some such thing, no one really knows what will happen to faithful Catholics in the final days. It was only my intent to show that there are worse things than being expelled from SSPX chapels--if that should happen.