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Author Topic: SSPX Response to Pope  (Read 4208 times)

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Offline poche

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SSPX Response to Pope
« on: June 18, 2017, 04:42:37 AM »
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  • The traditionalist priestly Society of St. Pius X welcomes the opening of the Pope on marriage. On 27 March Cardinal Gerhard Ludwig Müller, Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and president of the Pontifical Commission Ecclesia Dei, and Archbishop Guido Pozzo, Secretary of Ecclesia Dei, signed on behalf of Francis a letter addressed to bishops around the world concerning “faculties for the celebration of marriages of faithful who follow the pastoral activity of the Society” of St. Pius X. In a long note, the General House replies to eight objections that had emerged in these weeks within the fraternity and exemplifies four benefits stemming from the new situation. 

    http://www.lastampa.it/2017/06/17/vaticaninsider/eng/the-vatican/lefebvrians-welcome-the-popes-opening-on-weddings-UxMmRyltXeSIb2e2EvyzcP/pagina.html


    Offline poche

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    Re: SSPX Response to Pope
    « Reply #1 on: June 19, 2017, 12:08:15 AM »
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  • Before answering the eight objections, the note - published in French and English on the website of the Fraternity San Pio X and translated into Italian - states that " From 1975 on, after the alleged “suppression” of the Society of St. Pius X, this delegation was usually denied the priests of the Society of St. Pius X (except by a few priest friends) under the false pretense that their status in the Church was irregular. Meanwhile, the crisis in the Church was manifesting its lethal fruits and made it more and more difficult for the faithful who were devoted to Tradition to be able to marry in a fully Catholic manner. The proposed liturgy was the Protestantized liturgy resulting from Vatican II.  

    http://www.lastampa.it/2017/06/17/vaticaninsider/eng/the-vatican/lefebvrians-welcome-the-popes-opening-on-weddings-UxMmRyltXeSIb2e2EvyzcP/pagina.htmlB


    Offline poche

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    Re: SSPX Response to Pope
    « Reply #2 on: June 19, 2017, 12:09:45 AM »
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  • Could it be that one of the priest friends of the SSPX is Pope Francis?

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: SSPX Response to Pope
    « Reply #3 on: June 19, 2017, 10:18:54 AM »
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  • Father Mario demonstrated great affection for many religions.


        Father Mario Bergolio & 16 yr. old 7th Day Adventist

    But not rigid traditional Catholics?

    It would make sense that he befriended the xSPX in Argentina, knowing they were no longer, rigid, or traditional.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline poche

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    Re: SSPX Response to Pope
    « Reply #4 on: June 20, 2017, 02:04:43 AM »
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  •  
    Under these conditions, the Lefebvrians, by virtue of Canon 1098 and even before the 1917 Code, have recognized the existence of a "real and serious state of necessity", that involves a moral impediment to recourse to the “canonical witness”, since he would propose an adulterated liturgy and a deviant morality”. For which they have resorted, in all these years, to the" extraordinary form "of marriage, i.e. to marry with the traditional liturgy in the presence of a priest attached to Tradition". For the General House of the Fraternity, led by Monsignor Bernard Fellay, successor to Monsignor Marcel Lefebvre, "the assertion of a “state of necessity” in matters concerning marriage, which justifies recourse to the “extraordinary form”, is and remains perfectly valid, inasmuch as the crisis in the Church is very far from being resolved; on the contrary, in fact, especially as far as Christian marriage is concerned, as the two Synods on the Family and the Apostolic Exhortation Amoris laetitia have just demonstrated” 

    http://www.lastampa.it/2017/06/17/vaticaninsider/eng/the-vatican/lefebvrians-welcome-the-popes-opening-on-weddings-UxMmRyltXeSIb2e2EvyzcP/pagina.html


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: SSPX Response to Pope
    « Reply #5 on: June 20, 2017, 10:54:35 AM »
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  • If I am not mistaken they were being led by Bishop Williamson

    Thanks for your comment, which led me to do a quick search.

    What I found counters your claim.

    In fact, it shows Bp. Fellay to be in collusion with Cardinal Mario Begolio on "consiliar reconciliation" as far back as 2011 and +W to be castigated as an αnтι-ѕємιтє.

    Source: Bergy letters
    Letters show Francis’s outreach to traditionalists has a long history

    Seminarians relax at the Society of St. Pius X seminary in Econe, Switzerland, in this May 10, 2012, file photo. The society's superior, Bishop Bernard Fellay, issued a statement June 29 saying that Pope Francis has "encouraged" errors in Catholic doctrine rather than denouncing them. The traditionalist society is not in full communion with the Catholic Church. (Credit: CNS photo/Paul Haring.)
    Letters written in 2011 by then-Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Buenos Aires, today Pope Francis, which have been unearthed and aired by Swedish television, confirm what people close to the pontiff already knew -- that over the course of his career, he's tried several times to bring the breakaway traditionalist Society of St. Pius X back into the fold.

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    ROME - Though casual observers may have been surprised by Pope Francis’s decision this week to offer a path to recognizing marriages conducted by priests of the breakaway Society of St. Pius X as valid, it’s no secret to anyone close to the pope that he’s long worked to bring the traditionalist group back into communion with Rome.
    Letters penned in 2011 by then-Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Buenos Aires, today Pope Francis, confirm what has long been rumored - that Bergoglio made several efforts to help the group when he was in Argentina. Those letters were discovered by a Swedish television news program airing tonight.
    The letters, short and to the point, are addressed to Guillermo Olivieri, at the time Argentina’s Foreign Ministry Secretary for Religious Affairs. In one, Bergoglio asks the politician to register the Argentinian branch of the society in the national Register of Institutes of Consecrated Life.
    In it, dated May 17, 2011, the future pope describes the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) as a “congregation of Catholics in the process of achieving full communion.”
    The society was founded in 1970 by French-born Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, and is popularly known as the “Lefebvrists”.
    It was suspended in 1976, when Lefebvre ordained new priests against the wishes of Pope Paul VI. Lefebvre, together with four other men, were excommunicated under Pope John Paul II when Lefebvre ordained the four men as bishops in 1988. Lefebvre died in 1991, without the breach being healed.
    Since then, the Vatican has tried multiple times to bring the society fully back into the fold. Emeritus Pope Benedict XVI made it a priority, launching formal talks with the society’s leadership.
    The 2011 letters are further proof that Bergoglio was on board with those efforts.
    In the second letter, dated July 7, Bergoglio confirms that the society has “religious authorization” to establish itself in Buenos Aires, a permit that he was required to grant. Today, the group runs a seminary on the outskirts of the city, formally called the Seminary of Our Lady Co-Redemptrix, informally known as La Reja.
    A third letter, from November of the same year, is signed by Italian Archbishop Adriano Bernardini, at the time the papal ambassador in Argentina. In it, the prelate states that, upon a request by Olivieri, he’d consulted Rome and received confirmation that the society “up to this point is not an entity that belongs to the Catholic Apostolic Church.”
    The letters, recovered by Uppdrag Granskning, became accessible as of September 2016, when Argentina passed a bill on the right to access public information allowing the public to request, and obtain, materials from governmental offices.
    Despite Bergoglio’s intervention, it wasn’t until 2015 that Cardinal Mario Poli, handpicked by Francis as his successor in Buenos Aires, helped the society earn recognition as a juridical person, which meant it was added to the “Register of the Institutes of Consecrated Life” in which Catholic orders and religious congregations in Argentina are listed.
    In Argentina, Catholic religious congregations have to be listed on the register to be able to work within a government-recognized juridical framework.
    Pope Benedict XVI in 2009 lifted the excommunications of the four bishops he ordained, hoping it would foster closer ties.
    One of those prelates was British Bishop Richard Williamson, who only days before the emeritus pope’s decision was made public gave an interview to Sveriges Television in which he denied the use of gas chambers to kill millions of Jєωs in the h0Ɩ0cαųst.
    Williamson would go on to challenge Swiss Bishop Bernard Fellay, Superior General of the SSPX, over Fellay’s support for talks about full reconciliation with Rome. As a result, Williamson was expelled from the SSPX in 2012, and was once again automatically excommunicated in 2015, after he ordained two new bishops without the approval from Rome. He has announced plans to ordain another new bishop on May 11, 2017.
    His splinter group is often referred to as the Resistance, though on their website they introduce themselves as The St. Marcel Initiative. They’re not part of the ongoing talks with Rome.
    On the Vatican’s side, the outreach is led by the commission Ecclesia Dei, instituted in 1988, soon after the episcopal ordinations, at the request of Pope John Paul II. The commission, which has been folded into the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, is in theory headed by German Cardinal Gerhard Müller, but the day-to-day work is overseen by Italian Archbishop Guido Pozzo.
    After several attempts to bring the group into full communion, which included a proposal during the pontificate of Benedict XVI to categorize them as a personal prelature that was rejected in 2012, the situation today is very different from what it was in 1988.
    In the Ecclesia Dei docuмent, John Paul II clearly calls on all those linked to the movement to remain “united to the Vicar of Christ,” and cease their links to the society, because adherence to the schism “carries the penalty of excommunication.”
    Since his election in March 2013, Pope Francis has offered a couple of olive branches to the traditionalist group, including a decree during the Jubilee of Mercy declaring that confessions heard and absolution given by the SSPX are considered valid by the Catholic Church.
    That gesture, in tandem with this week’s move to recognize marriages, is characteristic of the Argentine pope, focusing on pastoral outreach to the more than 600,000 faithful who, as of 2013, are affiliated with the group.
    After the Holy Year ended in late November 2016, the pope extended the provision allowing the more than 500 SSPX priests to grant absolution, “lest anyone ever be deprived of the sacramental sign of reconciliation through the church’s pardon.”
    The decision to create a path for the Church to recognize SSPX marriages was announced on Tuesday in a letter signed by Müller, saying that despite “objective persistence of canonical irregularity,” due to which, “for the time being,” the group is not in full communion, the new provisions should alleviate “any uneasiness of conscience on the part of the faithful regarding the validity of the sacrament of marriage.”
    In a statement released by Fellay on Tuesday, the group thanked Pope Francis for his “pastoral solicitude.”
    Speaking to i-Media, a French news agency that specializes in the Vatican, Pozzo said he believes there are no longer difficulties impeding reconciliation and regularization of the SSPX’s situation.
    In an April 2016 interview with French newspaper La Croix, Pozzo had listed several issues that need to be discussed and clarified before reinstatement is possible. Among them were the fact that many members of the society reject the docuмents of Vatican II, as well as inter-Christian dialogue [ecuмenism], and dialogue with non-Christian religions.
    “But they are not an obstacle for the canonical and legal recognition of the SSPX,” said Pozzo at the time.
    Also talking to La Croix, Pope Francis praised both the society, calling them “Catholics on the path to full communion,” and describing Fellay as a “man with whom one can dialogue.”
    Yet despite expressing gratitude to Francis on several occasions, Fellay has also accused the pope of encouraging “errors” that have “made their way” into the Church. He’s also said that the interpretation of the Second Vatican Council remains a roadblock.
    The bishop has said that the SSPX “will not yield” on questions such as “the way in which ecuмenism is practiced, including statements very dangerous for the faith, that make you think all have the same faith; the liturgical question or the relationship between the Church and the State.”
    Despite those challenges, there’s something all parties seem to agree on: If and when the time comes for the society to return to the fold, it’ll be done through a “personal prelature.”
    Ironically enough, that’s a canonical structure conceived during Vatican II. In a nutshell, it can be defined as a Church jurisdiction without geographical boundaries, designed to carry out particular pastoral initiatives.
    At present, the only personal prelature in the Church is Opus Dei, so should they take the offer, the SSPX would become just the second entity to carry that designation.
    Rome is currently abuzz with rumors of an imminent announcement in this regard, with some observers even talking about May as a possible date. The Vatican so far has played its cards close to the vest, though it’s making no secret of the fact that it wants reconciliation.
    It remains to be seen, however, if Fellay can overcome the internal opposition he faces from many members of the traditionalist movement, who still see Francis as too much of a “modernist.”
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline poche

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    Re: SSPX Response to Pope
    « Reply #6 on: June 21, 2017, 12:19:00 AM »
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  • Thanks for your comment, which led me to do a quick search.

    What I found counters your claim.

    In fact, it shows Bp. Fellay to be in collusion with Cardinal Mario Begolio on "consiliar reconciliation" as far back as 2011 and +W to be castigated as an αnтι-ѕємιтє.

    Source: Bergy letters
    Letters show Francis’s outreach to traditionalists has a long history

    Seminarians relax at the Society of St. Pius X seminary in Econe, Switzerland, in this May 10, 2012, file photo. The society's superior, Bishop Bernard Fellay, issued a statement June 29 saying that Pope Francis has "encouraged" errors in Catholic doctrine rather than denouncing them. The traditionalist society is not in full communion with the Catholic Church. (Credit: CNS photo/Paul Haring.)
    Letters written in 2011 by then-Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Buenos Aires, today Pope Francis, which have been unearthed and aired by Swedish television, confirm what people close to the pontiff already knew -- that over the course of his career, he's tried several times to bring the breakaway traditionalist Society of St. Pius X back into the fold.

    Share:



    ROME - Though casual observers may have been surprised by Pope Francis’s decision this week to offer a path to recognizing marriages conducted by priests of the breakaway Society of St. Pius X as valid, it’s no secret to anyone close to the pope that he’s long worked to bring the traditionalist group back into communion with Rome.
    Letters penned in 2011 by then-Cardinal Jorge Mario Bergoglio of Buenos Aires, today Pope Francis, confirm what has long been rumored - that Bergoglio made several efforts to help the group when he was in Argentina. Those letters were discovered by a Swedish television news program airing tonight.
    The letters, short and to the point, are addressed to Guillermo Olivieri, at the time Argentina’s Foreign Ministry Secretary for Religious Affairs. In one, Bergoglio asks the politician to register the Argentinian branch of the society in the national Register of Institutes of Consecrated Life.
    In it, dated May 17, 2011, the future pope describes the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) as a “congregation of Catholics in the process of achieving full communion.”
    The society was founded in 1970 by French-born Archbishop Marcel Lefebvre, and is popularly known as the “Lefebvrists”.
    It was suspended in 1976, when Lefebvre ordained new priests against the wishes of Pope Paul VI. Lefebvre, together with four other men, were excommunicated under Pope John Paul II when Lefebvre ordained the four men as bishops in 1988. Lefebvre died in 1991, without the breach being healed.
    Since then, the Vatican has tried multiple times to bring the society fully back into the fold. Emeritus Pope Benedict XVI made it a priority, launching formal talks with the society’s leadership.
    The 2011 letters are further proof that Bergoglio was on board with those efforts.
    In the second letter, dated July 7, Bergoglio confirms that the society has “religious authorization” to establish itself in Buenos Aires, a permit that he was required to grant. Today, the group runs a seminary on the outskirts of the city, formally called the Seminary of Our Lady Co-Redemptrix, informally known as La Reja.
    A third letter, from November of the same year, is signed by Italian Archbishop Adriano Bernardini, at the time the papal ambassador in Argentina. In it, the prelate states that, upon a request by Olivieri, he’d consulted Rome and received confirmation that the society “up to this point is not an entity that belongs to the Catholic Apostolic Church.”
    The letters, recovered by Uppdrag Granskning, became accessible as of September 2016, when Argentina passed a bill on the right to access public information allowing the public to request, and obtain, materials from governmental offices.
    Despite Bergoglio’s intervention, it wasn’t until 2015 that Cardinal Mario Poli, handpicked by Francis as his successor in Buenos Aires, helped the society earn recognition as a juridical person, which meant it was added to the “Register of the Institutes of Consecrated Life” in which Catholic orders and religious congregations in Argentina are listed.
    In Argentina, Catholic religious congregations have to be listed on the register to be able to work within a government-recognized juridical framework.
    Pope Benedict XVI in 2009 lifted the excommunications of the four bishops he ordained, hoping it would foster closer ties.
    One of those prelates was British Bishop Richard Williamson, who only days before the emeritus pope’s decision was made public gave an interview to Sveriges Television in which he denied the use of gas chambers to kill millions of Jєωs in the h0Ɩ0cαųst.
    Williamson would go on to challenge Swiss Bishop Bernard Fellay, Superior General of the SSPX, over Fellay’s support for talks about full reconciliation with Rome. As a result, Williamson was expelled from the SSPX in 2012, and was once again automatically excommunicated in 2015, after he ordained two new bishops without the approval from Rome. He has announced plans to ordain another new bishop on May 11, 2017.
    His splinter group is often referred to as the Resistance, though on their website they introduce themselves as The St. Marcel Initiative. They’re not part of the ongoing talks with Rome.
    On the Vatican’s side, the outreach is led by the commission Ecclesia Dei, instituted in 1988, soon after the episcopal ordinations, at the request of Pope John Paul II. The commission, which has been folded into the Vatican’s Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, is in theory headed by German Cardinal Gerhard Müller, but the day-to-day work is overseen by Italian Archbishop Guido Pozzo.
    After several attempts to bring the group into full communion, which included a proposal during the pontificate of Benedict XVI to categorize them as a personal prelature that was rejected in 2012, the situation today is very different from what it was in 1988.
    In the Ecclesia Dei docuмent, John Paul II clearly calls on all those linked to the movement to remain “united to the Vicar of Christ,” and cease their links to the society, because adherence to the schism “carries the penalty of excommunication.”
    Since his election in March 2013, Pope Francis has offered a couple of olive branches to the traditionalist group, including a decree during the Jubilee of Mercy declaring that confessions heard and absolution given by the SSPX are considered valid by the Catholic Church.
    That gesture, in tandem with this week’s move to recognize marriages, is characteristic of the Argentine pope, focusing on pastoral outreach to the more than 600,000 faithful who, as of 2013, are affiliated with the group.
    After the Holy Year ended in late November 2016, the pope extended the provision allowing the more than 500 SSPX priests to grant absolution, “lest anyone ever be deprived of the sacramental sign of reconciliation through the church’s pardon.”
    The decision to create a path for the Church to recognize SSPX marriages was announced on Tuesday in a letter signed by Müller, saying that despite “objective persistence of canonical irregularity,” due to which, “for the time being,” the group is not in full communion, the new provisions should alleviate “any uneasiness of conscience on the part of the faithful regarding the validity of the sacrament of marriage.”
    In a statement released by Fellay on Tuesday, the group thanked Pope Francis for his “pastoral solicitude.”
    Speaking to i-Media, a French news agency that specializes in the Vatican, Pozzo said he believes there are no longer difficulties impeding reconciliation and regularization of the SSPX’s situation.
    In an April 2016 interview with French newspaper La Croix, Pozzo had listed several issues that need to be discussed and clarified before reinstatement is possible. Among them were the fact that many members of the society reject the docuмents of Vatican II, as well as inter-Christian dialogue [ecuмenism], and dialogue with non-Christian religions.
    “But they are not an obstacle for the canonical and legal recognition of the SSPX,” said Pozzo at the time.
    Also talking to La Croix, Pope Francis praised both the society, calling them “Catholics on the path to full communion,” and describing Fellay as a “man with whom one can dialogue.”
    Yet despite expressing gratitude to Francis on several occasions, Fellay has also accused the pope of encouraging “errors” that have “made their way” into the Church. He’s also said that the interpretation of the Second Vatican Council remains a roadblock.
    The bishop has said that the SSPX “will not yield” on questions such as “the way in which ecuмenism is practiced, including statements very dangerous for the faith, that make you think all have the same faith; the liturgical question or the relationship between the Church and the State.”
    Despite those challenges, there’s something all parties seem to agree on: If and when the time comes for the society to return to the fold, it’ll be done through a “personal prelature.”
    Ironically enough, that’s a canonical structure conceived during Vatican II. In a nutshell, it can be defined as a Church jurisdiction without geographical boundaries, designed to carry out particular pastoral initiatives.
    At present, the only personal prelature in the Church is Opus Dei, so should they take the offer, the SSPX would become just the second entity to carry that designation.
    Rome is currently abuzz with rumors of an imminent announcement in this regard, with some observers even talking about May as a possible date. The Vatican so far has played its cards close to the vest, though it’s making no secret of the fact that it wants reconciliation.
    It remains to be seen, however, if Fellay can overcome the internal opposition he faces from many members of the traditionalist movement, who still see Francis as too much of a “modernist.”

    I believe that it shows what I have said before. Pope Francis is a friend of Catholic Tradition.
     8) 8) 8) 

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: SSPX Response to Pope
    « Reply #7 on: June 21, 2017, 01:30:39 AM »
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  • Poche  :facepalm:

    Maybe a metaphor is the best way to explain this to you?  

    You've heard of the example of the modernist Pope being analogous to the "bad dad" haven't you ?

    Well in this scenario, you're like the bad son, who condones the bad dad coming home and beating-up Mom (Holy Mother Church).

    You're supposed to be the good son, who resists the bad dad, by keeping him at bay and protecting your Mom.... get it ? 
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline poche

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    Re: SSPX Response to Pope
    « Reply #8 on: June 21, 2017, 01:44:46 AM »
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  • Poche  :facepalm:

    Maybe a metaphor is the best way to explain this to you?  

    You've heard of the example of the modernist Pope being analogous to the "bad dad" haven't you ?

    Well in this scenario, you're like the bad son, who condones the bad dad coming home and beating-up Mom (Holy Mother Church).

    You're supposed to be the good son, who resists the bad dad, by keeping him at bay and protecting your Mom.... get it ?
    Do you mean like when Pope Francis said that if someone insults your mother you get to punch him in the nose? I understand that a lot of media and politically correct outlets were upset with him when he said that.   

    Offline poche

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    Re: SSPX Response to Pope
    « Reply #9 on: June 23, 2017, 05:17:59 AM »
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  • Accordingly, the note replies to eight objections to the letter written by Cardinal Mueller on behalf of the Pope, stating in fact that "the arrangements that it proposes would make it possible in a certain number of cases to celebrate marriages according to the “ordinary form” but perfectly in conformity with Tradition, or whether, on the contrary, these provisions would be a trap for Tradition”. The docuмent notes, incidentally, that "this is the first time that a Roman docuмent envisages that a priest of the Society of St. Pius X can celebrate Mass in a parish church without any preliminary condition, canonical, theological, or otherwise. " 
      
    http://www.lastampa.it/2017/06/17/vaticaninsider/eng/the-vatican/lefebvrians-welcome-the-popes-opening-on-weddings-UxMmRyltXeSIb2e2EvyzcP/pagina.html

    Offline poche

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    Re: SSPX Response to Pope
    « Reply #10 on: June 28, 2017, 02:34:47 AM »
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  • The possibility enshrined in Müller's letter is the answer to the first objection, "strictly speaking, it has no connection with the false teaching on marriage that resulted from Vatican II and was incorporated into the 1983 Code of Canon Law, which the Society of St. Pius X rightly criticizes." Secondly, "it does not entail the ipso facto acceptance of the deviant practices regarding marriage in the “conciliar” Church, especially the declarations of nullity for false reasons". The answer to the third objection - "does not imply any effect as to the validity of marriages celebrated in the past or in the future according to the" extraordinary form ", or - replies to the fourth objection -"would ipso facto be tantamount to putting marriages according to the traditional rite into the hands of the bishops and of the Roman Curia (fierce enemies of Tradition). 

    http://www.lastampa.it/2017/06/17/vaticaninsider/eng/the-vatican/lefebvrians-welcome-the-popes-opening-on-weddings-UxMmRyltXeSIb2e2EvyzcP/pagina.html


    Offline Geremia

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    Re: SSPX Response to Pope
    « Reply #11 on: June 28, 2017, 11:40:16 AM »
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  • The traditionalist priestly Society of St. Pius X welcomes the opening of the Pope on marriage.
    You believe everything La Stampa or La Reppublica says? These newspapers are Freemasonic.
    St. Isidore e-book library: https://isidore.co/calibre

    Offline poche

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    Re: SSPX Response to Pope
    « Reply #12 on: June 30, 2017, 12:34:33 AM »
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  • As for the fifth objection, "this letter from Cardinal Müller - reads the note of the General Assembly of Lefevre - is not in itself an element of an eventual personal prelature, nor a step in a process of “winning over” the Society of St. Pius X; it merely offers the possibility of some improvement in an unjust situation, by facilitated access to the “ordinary form”, without anything demanded in return of the Society of St. Pius X, and with the possibility of resorting, whenever necessary, to the “extraordinary form”, which is perfectly justified by the state of necessity” 

    http://www.lastampa.it/2017/06/17/vaticaninsider/eng/the-vatican/lefebvrians-welcome-the-popes-opening-on-weddings-UxMmRyltXeSIb2e2EvyzcP/pagina.html

    Offline poche

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    Re: SSPX Response to Pope
    « Reply #13 on: July 01, 2017, 03:34:58 AM »
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  • On the other hand, it is noted, "the exchanges between Rome and the Society of St. Pius X necessarily imply that each of the protagonists wants to lead the other to his own positions" According to the sixth objection - "the strongest one" - " It would therefore be improper, inconsistent, and scandalous to ask for anything at all from these enemies of the Faith, especially delegation to marry.As for allowing a conciliar priest into a chapel of the Society of St. Pius X in order to receive marriage vows, that would be downright intolerable for the future spouses, for the priests of the Society of St. Pius X and generally for the parish community of that place. But "the pastor," replies the note, "is present as purely canonical witness, not for his moral qualities." 

    http://www.lastampa.it/2017/06/17/vaticaninsider/eng/the-vatican/lefebvrians-welcome-the-popes-opening-on-weddings-UxMmRyltXeSIb2e2EvyzcP/pagina.html

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    Re: SSPX Response to Pope
    « Reply #14 on: July 03, 2017, 02:15:01 AM »
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  • Accepting the opening of Müller, is the answer to the seventh objection, it "would not be a failure to profess the Faith publicly and to criticize the errors of Vatican II": " In the 1970’s, Tradition had taken refuge in makeshift shelters; then, in most localities, they bought or built a church: is anyone going to say that the battle for the Faith grew lukewarm as a result? When a priest of the Society of St. Pius X requests the use of a shrine for a pilgrimage, is anyone going to say that the battle for the Faith is diminished if he obtains permission, as compared with a refusal to grant it? When Pope Benedict XVI acknowledges that the old rite was never abolished, is anyone going to say that the defense of the traditional liturgy by the Society of St. Pius X and the heroic resistance of Archbishop Lefebvre to preserve it are discredited as a result? And so on” 

    http://www.lastampa.it/2017/06/17/vaticaninsider/eng/the-vatican/lefebvrians-welcome-the-popes-opening-on-weddings-UxMmRyltXeSIb2e2EvyzcP/pagina.html