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Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: jman123 on March 30, 2018, 12:34:45 PM

Title: SSPX response to pope denying hell
Post by: jman123 on March 30, 2018, 12:34:45 PM
Where is the SSPX response to what Pope Francis said in denying hell? All I hear are crickets. SSPX should be protesting this heretic day in and day out. 
Title: Re: SSPX response to pope denying hell
Post by: Marlelar on March 30, 2018, 01:27:48 PM
Well the Vatican is denying that Francis said it so I think an official response on the part of the SSPX would be premature. 

Personally I have no doubt Francis said it, but as an organization the SSPX must be cautious in what they put in writing. 

:popcorn:
Title: Re: SSPX response to pope denying hell
Post by: Maria Regina on March 30, 2018, 02:24:21 PM
Well the Vatican is denying that Francis said it so I think an official response on the part of the SSPX would be premature.

Personally I have no doubt Francis said it, but as an organization the SSPX must be cautious in what they put in writing.

:popcorn:
After the treatment given to the author of The Dictator Pope, the Vatican has shown its teeth.

In effect, the SSPX has been neutralized, and is no longer a threat to Francis. This is exactly the Vatican plan: neutralize all opposition.
Title: Re: SSPX response to pope denying hell
Post by: Fanny on March 30, 2018, 03:38:46 PM

The SSPX has been neutered.
Title: Re: SSPX response to pope denying hell
Post by: Seraphina on March 30, 2018, 11:18:43 PM
Expect nothing of the SSPX or the Church on earth; only of Our Lord, Our Lady, and the saints.
Title: Re: SSPX response to pope denying hell
Post by: Maria Regina on March 31, 2018, 02:01:59 AM
Expect nothing of the SSPX or the Church on earth; only of Our Lord, Our Lady, and the saints.
There will always be a faithful remnant. Didn't Christ promise that?

Look, we comprise the faithful along with a few priests and bishops who hold onto the True Faith. We, the Remnant, are Christ's Holy Church.
Title: Re: SSPX response to pope denying hell
Post by: Neil Obstat on April 01, 2018, 07:04:24 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=arN3wLPOxp8
.
If only YouTube could tell us if Bishop-of-Rome Francis has up-thumbed this video!
He seems to enjoy getting media attention.
If it's face time it must be good!
Title: Re: SSPX response to pope denying hell
Post by: klasG4e on April 02, 2018, 09:38:12 AM
(https://mtnebofred.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/leadership_lemmings.gif)
Title: Re: SSPX response to pope denying hell
Post by: Last Tradhican on April 02, 2018, 11:05:56 AM
(https://mtnebofred.files.wordpress.com/2013/12/leadership_lemmings.gif)
Excellent! Perfect. What more needs be said about the direction the SSPX has been taking for the last 15 years. If you don't mind I will be using this a lot on CI. 
Title: Re: SSPX response to pope denying hell
Post by: klasG4e on April 03, 2018, 11:24:54 AM
Excellent! Perfect. What more needs be said about the direction the SSPX has been taking for the last 15 years. If you don't mind I will be using this a lot on CI.
Yes, good idea.  Please do.
Title: Re: SSPX response to pope denying hell
Post by: 2Vermont on April 03, 2018, 03:57:51 PM
Just checked their website:  still no response.  Then again, I don't see one on Bishop Williamson's site either.  
Title: Re: SSPX response to pope denying hell
Post by: Samuel on April 03, 2018, 04:41:44 PM
Just checked their website:  still no response.  Then again, I don't see one on Bishop Williamson's site either.  

..neither on Bishop Sanborn's blog. But thanks for the little dig anyway!
Title: Re: SSPX response to pope denying hell
Post by: Mr G on April 03, 2018, 04:46:29 PM
https://akacatholic.com/hell-of-a-distraction/ (https://akacatholic.com/hell-of-a-distraction/)

From Louie:

"As a kind reader recently made me aware, among those in Catholic media who have weighed in on the debate is Michael Matt, publisher of America’s oldest traditional newspaper, who said:
If he actually did say this If he believes this … Pope Francis is a heretic.
Indeed! The next obvious question, one I suspect he is unwilling to answer, is whether or not such a man can be considered Catholic much less the pope.
Look, I don’t mean to pick on Mr. Matt – whose approach to the present crisis is emblematic of a much more widespread problem – but why are we hyperventilating over what may or may not have been said to a ninety-three year old atheist who prides himself on not taking notes?
How about we focus on what we know – like the fact Francis has kindly provided the world with a signed written statement (and other irrefutable evidence) clearly attesting to which immutable Catholic doctrines he accepts and those that he rejects.
On the topic of Hell, for instance, he left no room for debate concerning what he believes, and what’s more, what he intends to lead others into believing, by stating:

No one can be condemned forever, because that is not the logic of the Gospel!  Here I am not speaking only of the divorced and remarried, but of everyone… (AL 297)

No one, everyone; i.e., there are no exceptions.

Folks, this is as blatant and as unambiguous a denial of the existence of Hell as we could ever hope to see, and it is just one of the many heresies set forth in Amoris Laetitia; the selfsame docuмent wherein Francis plainly insists:

Title: Re: SSPX response to pope denying hell
Post by: 2Vermont on April 03, 2018, 05:56:07 PM
..neither on Bishop Sanborn's blog. But thanks for the little dig anyway!
I actually think that Bishop Williamson may say something in his next EC (given his last one was 3/31 and he probably had those thoughts already decided before Francis' latest).  My point was that it wouldn't be fair to knock the SSPX for not commenting when your own Bishop Williamson hasn't made any comments yet either.
I suspect that there will be more comments now that Holy Week and Easter is over.  It is a very busy time for our traditional clergy.

ETA:  And as for your Bishop Sanborn jab, I have NO DOUBT that he will make his comments known.  He doesn't write weekly newsletters, but he does do regular "FrancisWatch" programs with Novus Ordo Watch where he and Father Cekada discuss all of Francis' antics.
Title: Re: SSPX response to pope denying hell
Post by: Samuel on April 03, 2018, 07:32:54 PM
I actually think that Bishop Williamson may say something in his next EC (given his last one was 3/31 and he probably had those thoughts already decided before Francis' latest).  My point was that it wouldn't be fair to knock the SSPX for not commenting when your own Bishop Williamson hasn't made any comments yet either.
I suspect that there will be more comments now that Holy Week and Easter is over.  It is a very busy time for our traditional clergy.

ETA:  And as for your Bishop Sanborn jab, I have NO DOUBT that he will make his comments known.  He doesn't write weekly newsletters, but he does do regular "FrancisWatch" programs with Novus Ordo Watch where he and Father Cekada discuss all of Francis' antics.

No, you simply have a habit of throwing in little digs towards anyone that is not a sede, and especially bishop Williamson. Did you notice btw, you've just done it again ("your" bishop Williamson) !!! And when called out you try to play innocent. How grown up you are!

And my reply about bishop Sanborn was certainly not a jab towards him, but to drive home my point about your useless comment.

This hullaballoo about pope Francis denying hell is based on the memory and integrity of an atheist presstitute. I would be very disappointed if either the SSPX, bishop Williamson or bishop Sanborn would deem it worthy of any substantial comments. We have enough facts to work with that we don't need more sensationalist chatter, which puts honest people off from everything else Traditionalists have to say. Like the boy who cried wolf.
Title: Re: SSPX response to pope denying hell
Post by: Neil Obstat on April 04, 2018, 01:57:46 AM
https://akacatholic.com/hell-of-a-distraction/ (https://akacatholic.com/hell-of-a-distraction/)

From Louie:

"As a kind reader recently made me aware, among those in Catholic media who have weighed in on the debate is Michael Matt, publisher of America’s oldest traditional newspaper, who said:
If he actually did say this If he believes this … Pope Francis is a heretic.
Indeed! The next obvious question, one I suspect he is unwilling to answer, is whether or not such a man can be considered Catholic much less the pope.
Look, I don’t mean to pick on Mr. Matt – whose approach to the present crisis is emblematic of a much more widespread problem – but why are we hyperventilating over what may or may not have been said to a ninety-three year old atheist who prides himself on not taking notes?
How about we focus on what we know – like the fact Francis has kindly provided the world with a signed written statement (and other irrefutable evidence) clearly attesting to which immutable Catholic doctrines he accepts and those that he rejects.
On the topic of Hell, for instance, he left no room for debate concerning what he believes, and what’s more, what he intends to lead others into believing, by stating:

No one can be condemned forever, because that is not the logic of the Gospel!  Here I am not speaking only of the divorced and remarried, but of everyone… (AL 297)

No one, everyone; i.e., there are no exceptions.

Folks, this is as blatant and as unambiguous a denial of the existence of Hell as we could ever hope to see, and it is just one of the many heresies set forth in Amoris Laetitia; the selfsame docuмent wherein Francis plainly insists:

  • The Divine Law is impossible for some persons to keep (cf AL 295)
  • Adultery is not a mortal sin even for those who knowingly persist in it (cf AL 301)
  • And worst of all, that God Himself asks us to do so. (cf AL 303)"
.
Louie Verrecchio doesn't mince his words.
While we're at it, Louie has a new post today:
According to Bishop-of-Rome Francis, it's not him, but GOD who is challenging our stodgy tired old outdated paralyzing traditions.
His Easter message to the whole (spherical) world is that this is what it means to celebrate Easter.
.

https://akacatholic.com/as-the-hell-debate-raged/ (https://akacatholic.com/as-the-hell-debate-raged/)
.
Meanwhile, as the Hell debate raged…
Louie (https://akacatholic.com/author/louie/) April 3, 2018 27 Comments (https://akacatholic.com/as-the-hell-debate-raged/#comments)
.
(https://akacatholic.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/Pope-Francis-mean-face-2-e1478970327835.jpg)
.
According to reports, a cardinal or cardinals has challenged Francis over the Hell dust-up; perhaps even going so far as to suggest that he may lose his “so-called pontificate” (as Fr. Gruner aptly called it).
.
I’m not sure what to make of this. As I wrote in yesterday’s post, Amoris Laetitia contains blasphemy and heresy – signed, sealed, and delivered – with no room for debate.
.
And yet it wasn’t until this latest Bergoglian-Scalfarian scandal erupted that such an action has taken place?
.
Something doesn’t add up.
.
In any case, the alleged challenge (as reported by Antonio Socci) was presented to Francis on Holy Thursday.
.
How did he respond?
.
He pressed forward full speed ahead with his evil plan to destroy what little is left of a Church that no pre-conciliar Catholic would even remotely recognize.
.
During the Easter Vigil, he once again used the occasion of his homily to encourage acceptance of his agenda, saying:
We are invited to contemplate the empty tomb and to hear the words of the angel: “Do not be afraid… for he has been raised” (Mt 28:5-6). Those words should affect our deepest convictions and certainties, the ways we judge and deal with the events of our daily lives, especially the ways we relate to others.
.
HINT: Let us not address the matter of Holy Communion for those publicly known to be in mortal sin the way the Church has always done so.
.
This he made even clearer as he stated:
To celebrate Easter is to believe once more that God constantly breaks into our personal histories, challenging our “conventions”, those fixed ways of thinking and acting that end up paralyzing us. To celebrate Easter is to allow Jesus to triumph over the craven fear that so often assails us and tries to bury every kind of hope.
.
Translation: Be not afraid! Amoris Laetitia is Thomist! It’s Catholic! No, really!
.
He went on:
The stone before the tomb shared in this, the women of the Gospel shared in this, and now the invitation is addressed once more to you and to me. An invitation to break out of our routines and to renew our lives, our decisions and our existence. An invitation that must be directed to where we stand, what we are doing and what we are, with the “share of power” that is ours.
.
So, you see, the bi-millennial practice of the Church, which is itself an expression of the immutable faith and the very words of Our Lord, are but a worn-out “routine.”
.
How can we change such things?
.
Easy, we have a “share of power;” the same power that Christ exhibited in the Resurrection!
.
A time will come when the Church will be tempted to believe that man has become God.
.
It’s here, folks.
.
Now, a word about “the stone.”
.
In this very same homily, Francis demonstrated for all to see just how evil can strip a man of his ability to reason; even to the point where his intellect is dulled in the most remarkable of ways.
.
Francis declared:
.
The stone before the tomb cried out and proclaimed the opening of a new way for all. Creation itself was the first to echo the triumph of life over all that had attempted to silence and stifle the joy of the Gospel. The stone before the tomb was the first to leap up and in its own way intone a song of praise and wonder, of joy and hope, in which all of us are invited to join.
.
The stone cried out… The stone proclaimed… The stone was the first to leap up…
.
Yes, he actually said this. (NOTE: I double-checked the Italian text to make sure that the English translation provided by the Vatican is accurate.)
.
No, Jorge Bergoglio isn’t insane. He knows very well that the Scriptures tell us that “an angel of the Lord descended from heaven and coming rolled back the stone and sat upon it,” and this same angel was the first to proclaim “He is risen.” (cf Mt 28:2,6)
.
He is simply so immersed in his own evil ways that he has been rendered as one who speaks as if he is insane.
.
On Easter Sunday, he once again insisted:
.
God’s announcements are always surprises, because our God is the God of surprises … God can not make an announcement without surprising us.
(And guess what? He wants the Church to look exactly as Jorge would have it look. Surprise!)
.
At the Easter vigil, Francis posed the following rhetorical question, and it’s a good one:
.
Do we prefer simply to continue standing speechless before events as they happen?
.
I, for one, refuse to stand speechless as this man wreaks havoc on the Church and leads countless souls to perdition; rather, I intend to call his heresies and blasphemies by their proper name, warning everyone who has ears to hear that this man simply is not a member of the Church; much less her head on earth, and he therefore must be avoided.
.
May it please God to inspire others, especially those in the sacred hierarchy, to follow suit.
.
Title: Re: SSPX response to pope denying hell
Post by: Neil Obstat on April 04, 2018, 02:34:27 AM
.
You have to read that, then take a break, and come back and read it again. You might have to sleep over it.
.
When I read it the third time, it occurred to me.............
.
Francis declared:
.
The stone before the tomb cried out and proclaimed the opening of a new way for all. Creation itself was the first to echo the triumph of life over all that had attempted to silence and stifle the joy of the Gospel. The stone before the tomb was the first to leap up and in its own way intone a song of praise and wonder, of joy and hope, in which all of us are invited to join.
.
The stone cried out… The stone proclaimed… The stone was the first to leap up…
.
Yes, he actually said this. (NOTE: I double-checked the Italian text to make sure that the English translation provided by the Vatican is accurate.)

.
About that stone that cried out, proclaimed and was the first to leap up: 
That stone shares in the power of God and it's just a stone -- why then would we, who are so much more than a stone, not be sharers in that same power too? 
.
He went on:
The stone before the tomb shared in this, the women of the Gospel shared in this, and now the invitation is addressed once more to you and to me. An invitation to break out of our routines and to renew our lives, our decisions and our existence. An invitation that must be directed to where we stand, what we are doing and what we are, with the “share of power” that is ours.
.
So, you see, the bi-millennial practice of the Church, which is itself an expression of the immutable faith and the very words of Our Lord, are but a worn-out “routine.”
.
How can we change such things?
.
Easy, we have a “share of power;” the same power that Christ exhibited in the Resurrection!
.
A time will come when the Church will be tempted to believe that man has become God.
.
It’s here, folks.

.
According to Bishop-of-Rome Francis, God's message to us this Easter season is that we should cast aside all of Church Tradition in favor of his heresy du jour, to throw away those things that stifle us, load us down, imprison our sense of freedom to "Do What Thou Wilt, the Whole of the Law." This is satanic. Maybe Louie doesn't lunge right away to conclusions, but by not mincing his words he can be a real inspiration. Sometimes conclusions are necessary.
.
Title: Re: SSPX response to pope denying hell
Post by: 2Vermont on April 04, 2018, 04:44:34 AM
No, you simply have a habit of throwing in little digs towards anyone that is not a sede, and especially bishop Williamson. Did you notice btw, you've just done it again ("your" bishop Williamson) !!! And when called out you try to play innocent. How grown up you are!

And my reply about bishop Sanborn was certainly not a jab towards him, but to drive home my point about your useless comment.

This hullaballoo about pope Francis denying hell is based on the memory and integrity of an atheist presstitute. I would be very disappointed if either the SSPX, bishop Williamson or bishop Sanborn would deem it worthy of any substantial comments. We have enough facts to work with that we don't need more sensationalist chatter, which puts honest people off from everything else Traditionalists have to say. Like the boy who cried wolf.
My response to your post was actually a clarification of my original post.  It basically said the same thing, but I clarified that my issue with others calling out the SSPX is that the Resistance hasn't made any official comments either.  At the very least, that's pretty unfair and therefore not a "useless comment".  It's just too bad that my comment upset Samuel's delicate sensibilities.

And Bishop Williamson is YOUR bishop, is he not?  He is the one YOU look to for answers during this Crisis, isn't he? We all know he's not the bishop I turn to for answers to the Crisis.  Why wouldn't I say "your" bishop?  Again, poor Samuel's delicate sensibilities.  
 
But we now know your real feelings about Francis' latest non-Catholic comments: that Traditionalists shouldn't say much of anything. Too bad you couldn't just come out and say that like a mature, rational adult the first go around.   
   
By the way, why don't you capitalize "bishop"?  One time would lead me to believe it was just a typo, but you do this every time.
Title: Re: SSPX response to pope denying hell
Post by: Last Tradhican on April 05, 2018, 10:25:06 AM

Quote
Quote
Just checked their website:  still no response.  Then again, I don't see one on Bishop Williamson's site either.  


..neither on Bishop Sanborn's blog. But thanks for the little dig anyway!

Bergolio has not said anything about it either. You'd think he would be the first one to correct the article. No?

(https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/sspx-response-to-pope-denying-hell/12/?action=reporttm;msg=602573)

Title: Re: SSPX response to pope denying hell
Post by: Marlelar on April 05, 2018, 11:02:17 AM

..neither on Bishop Sanborn's blog. But thanks for the little dig anyway!

Bergolio has not said anything about it either. You'd think he would be the first one to correct the article. No?

(https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/sspx-response-to-pope-denying-hell/12/?action=reporttm;msg=602573)
I would have expected that, not another unbelievable attempt by the Vatican to spin his words. 
Title: Re: SSPX response to pope denying hell
Post by: Fanny on April 05, 2018, 12:13:11 PM
https://akacatholic.com/hell-of-a-distraction/ (https://akacatholic.com/hell-of-a-distraction/)

From Louie:

"As a kind reader recently made me aware, among those in Catholic media who have weighed in on the debate is Michael Matt, publisher of America’s oldest traditional newspaper, who said:
If he actually did say this If he believes this … Pope Francis is a heretic.
Indeed! The next obvious question, one I suspect he is unwilling to answer, is whether or not such a man can be considered Catholic much less the pope.
Look, I don’t mean to pick on Mr. Matt – whose approach to the present crisis is emblematic of a much more widespread problem – but why are we hyperventilating over what may or may not have been said to a ninety-three year old atheist who prides himself on not taking notes?
How about we focus on what we know – like the fact Francis has kindly provided the world with a signed written statement (and other irrefutable evidence) clearly attesting to which immutable Catholic doctrines he accepts and those that he rejects.
On the topic of Hell, for instance, he left no room for debate concerning what he believes, and what’s more, what he intends to lead others into believing, by stating:

No one can be condemned forever, because that is not the logic of the Gospel!  Here I am not speaking only of the divorced and remarried, but of everyone… (AL 297)

No one, everyone; i.e., there are no exceptions.

Folks, this is as blatant and as unambiguous a denial of the existence of Hell as we could ever hope to see, and it is just one of the many heresies set forth in Amoris Laetitia; the selfsame docuмent wherein Francis plainly insists:

  • The Divine Law is impossible for some persons to keep (cf AL 295)
  • Adultery is not a mortal sin even for those who knowingly persist in it (cf AL 301)
  • And worst of all, that God Himself asks us to do so. (cf AL 303)"
Pope Francis is an apostate.
 
 An old 2013 article:
 
 http://www.repubblica.it/cultura/2013/10/01/news/pope_s_conversation_with_scalfari_english-67643118/
 
 
 "Proselytism is solemn nonsense, it makes no sense."
 
 "And I believe in God, not in a Catholic God, there is no Catholic God, ..."
 
 " From my point of view, God is the light that illuminates the darkness, even if it does not dissolve it, and a spark of divine light is within each of us. In the letter I wrote to you, you will remember I said that our species will end but the light of God will not end and at that point it will invade all souls and it will all be in everyone."
 -------
 
 If a baptized Catholic does not believe in even the tiniest bit of Catholic doctrine, whether written or tradition, then he is an apostate.
Title: Re: SSPX response to pope denying hell
Post by: King Wenceslas on April 05, 2018, 07:08:47 PM
Quote from Lifesitenews: “Gwynne Dyer of Canada’s Hamilton Spectator asserted that “of course” Pope Francis had denied the existence of hell, and that “the reason why is obvious.”

It is very hard for a well-educated person of modern sensibilities to believe that a loving god would condemn any of the human beings he created to an eternity of physical torture and mental anguish,” Dyer wrote “That is not what loving human fathers do, even to children who disobey them, so the traditional notion of Hell is a permanent problem for many Catholic theologians.”

But acknowledging that that Annihilationism is a heresy in the Catholic Church, Dyer believes that Pope Francis has found a “practical” way of communicating his true beliefs without wasting the time he wants to direct to “other, more urgent changes”:

“Pope Francis is a practical man, and he chooses his battles carefully,” Dyer wrote. “Changing Catholic doctrine on Hell would be a long battle that consumed most of the energy within the Church that he would like to devote to other, more urgent changes. Yet he still cannot resist making his true views known (in a deniable way) by having these occasional conversations with Eugenio Scalfari.”

His true views. Let that sink in as he and his successors annihilate the Church (try too I should say)

What he says to Catholic bum kens is one thing. What he really believes he says to Scalfari.