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Offline klasG4e

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Re: SSPX Priest Publicly Smashes Fr. Paul Robinson's (SSPX) Book
« Reply #30 on: November 10, 2018, 07:48:08 PM »
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  • OK Claudel, I take your point as regards capitals etc., but that is my style. I use capitals and other means to emphasise important facts, facts you obviously do not like to read.

    I have asked the likes of yourself on many 'Catholic' forums where in the history of the Church has any pope or Holy Office DENIED Pope Paul V's 1616 decree WAS NOT IRREORMABLE? Usually I get banned because I reveal how popes and churchmen CONNED the Catholic Faith out of an infallible definition that made it a dogma that the BIBLE reveals an orbiting sun. Finally I find a forum in CIF that is Catholic and willing to discuss this matter for the sake of the faith. Thank God for CIF.

    The 'mere declaration by eleven cardinals,' defined the Bible reveals an orbiting sun. The Pope as Prefect of the Holy Office examined their finding and approved it. That is how this Office that examined cases of serious heresy worked. On the 25th February, 1616, the day the Pope Paul V presided over the Holy Office as Prefect and approved the ruling by his office as pope, He told Cardinal Bellarmine to tell Galileo his heliocentriosm was formal heresy because it contradicted the Bible and the understanding of it by all the Fathers, another proof of its infallibility according to the Council of Trent. On 26th May, 1616, Cardinal Bellarmine, wrote a letter for Galileo, and used the words 'the declaration made by the Holy Father.' with regard to heretical heliocentrism.

    Your claim above that the declaration was not directed towards Galileo or what he wrote shows me you are just another apologist inventing your own version of the case. The first declaration was made to Galileo in 1616 and the second above against Galileo and what he said in his book Dialogue.

    In 1633 Pope Urban III confirmed the 1616 decree was irreformable (infallible) when in his judgement against Galileo's heliocentric argument in his book said no such opinion can be held or 'defended as probable after it has been declared and defined to be contrary to Holy Scripture.'
    There is also documented proof that in 1820, the Holy Office examined the authority of the 1616 decree and found it was papal and non reformable.

    However, in 1820 churchmen believed heliocentrism was proven, this is also documented. So, faced with an 'irreformable' (infallible) decree, how did they con their way out of their dilemma that in effect proved an infallible papal decree WRONG? They certainly could not deny the infallibility of the 1616 decree because it was as it was. Well, Olivieri told them all that the infallible 1616 decree was against a violent heliocentrism, but that everyone 'now knows' the heliocentrism of 1820 'is not violent, so not heretical.

    So desperate were those churchmen to save infallibility in the face of what they believed was proof that infallibility was proven wrong, they all went along with the joke that the 1616 decree was against a violent orbiting Earth. In fact, even then, many records showed that the 1616 decree was against the denial that the sun moved around the Earth. Yet not one person except Fr Anfossi and a few argued against the sham. Pope Pius VII however believed Olivieri and the 'non heretical heliocentrism' became the new interpretation of Scripture.

    This farce of a non-heretical heliocentrism is the one now defended by you Claudel, all those other Catholic forums that banned me under the guise of:

    'Cassini's oft-repeated claim that all the subsequent popes either directly served or indirectly cooperated with Satanic Masonic forces pushing heliocentrism is nothing short of formal blasphemy.'

    There is no speculation or personal opinion in my synthesis Claudel. The messenger is being burned for researching the official Church documents held in secret over the centuries but now open to the public after study by many scholars.

    The Galilean reformation in the Church is directly responsible for many attacks on the Bible, the ROCK upon which Modernism in the Church was built. Look at the state of the Church today and tell me it all started with the Vatican II popes. Well sorry to tell you that rot began in 1835 when science waas elected as the new interpreter of Scripture.


    Now it is your turn

    Spot on!  Very well said cassini!  I thank the Good Lord that there are men like you who have taken the time and effort to study this subject so thoroughly and then to courageously disseminate the truth regarding same.  May that the Good God, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost allow you to continue on in this endeavor!

    Offline cassini

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    Re: SSPX Priest Publicly Smashes Fr. Paul Robinson's (SSPX) Book
    « Reply #31 on: November 11, 2018, 10:13:43 AM »
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  • If I may make a suggestion here for Cassini, perhaps you should post a review of Fr Robinson's book on the Angelus Press site and support Fr Rusak in it.

    Just submitted the following to Angelus Press website on Fr Robinson's book: Let us see if they publish it.

    FAITH OR SCIENCE?
    For 30 years now I have been studying 'faith and science' as it applies to the Catholic faith. Like most I was educated to believe heliocentrism and evolution were proven true by science. One day a friend gave me a book on evolution. It took me ten minutes to see I had been made a fool of. Human reasoning and the absence of any proof showed me this. I discovered the very first theory was the Nebular theory, how their heliocentric solar system evolved.
         I then studied the Galileo case, its science and the Church's part in it. I found it too was based on assumption as absolute truth. I then found churchmen had accepted assumption as truth and sided with 'science.' To do so they had to 'disown' a papal decree of 1616 that it had ruled as irreversible.' Along came Einstein who showed there is no science that can prove geocentrism wrong.  
         1992 a papal commission told all heliocentrism was proven and it was the reason for the Church to change its biblical interpretation of Genesis. This is not true. Nevertheless, in 1965 Gaudium et spes of Vatican II ridiculed the churchmen of 1616 as 'fundamentalists' and troublemakers for interpreting the Bible geocentric.
       Having read this book by Fr Robinson I find once again any Catholic who believes in the dogma of Ex nihilo creation, immediately 'in it whole substance' as Vatican I said, is accused of 'fundamentalism.'  It contains a synthesis that infers some long condemned Pythagorean heresies are back again. How sad.


    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: SSPX Priest Publicly Smashes Fr. Paul Robinson's (SSPX) Book
    « Reply #32 on: November 11, 2018, 11:03:48 AM »
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  • 2 questions: 1) Do any of the priests of the SSPX take the Oath against Modernism, and 2) Is there any legitimate way in the world that Fr. Robinson's book could have stayed off the Index of Forbidden Books when the Index was in operation?

    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: SSPX Priest Publicly Smashes Fr. Paul Robinson's (SSPX) Book
    « Reply #33 on: November 11, 2018, 01:01:06 PM »
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  • I believe that a probable future scenario in light of the fact that the SSPX leadership is apparently doubling down in the backing of Fr. Robinson's book, but also in light of the fact that the book is receiving severe and yet very reasoned and informed criticism from Catholics (most notably Robert Sungenis), and finally in light of the fact that this criticism will probably not only not cease, but will -- I certainly hope, anyway -- grow stronger the book will undergo a severe editing and then come out in revised form only.  I think this may be the best damage control and partial face saving solution for the perspective of the beleaguered SSPX.

    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: SSPX Priest Publicly Smashes Fr. Paul Robinson's (SSPX) Book
    « Reply #34 on: November 11, 2018, 01:05:34 PM »
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  • Just submitted the following to Angelus Press website on Fr Robinson's book: Let us see if they publish it.

    FAITH OR SCIENCE?
    For 30 years now I have been studying 'faith and science' as it applies to the Catholic faith. Like most I was educated to believe heliocentrism and evolution were proven true by science. One day a friend gave me a book on evolution. It took me ten minutes to see I had been made a fool of. Human reasoning and the absence of any proof showed me this. I discovered the very first theory was the Nebular theory, how their heliocentric solar system evolved.
         I then studied the Galileo case, its science and the Church's part in it. I found it too was based on assumption as absolute truth. I then found churchmen had accepted assumption as truth and sided with 'science.' To do so they had to 'disown' a papal decree of 1616 that it had ruled as irreversible.' Along came Einstein who showed there is no science that can prove geocentrism wrong.  
         1992 a papal commission told all heliocentrism was proven and it was the reason for the Church to change its biblical interpretation of Genesis. This is not true. Nevertheless, in 1965 Gaudium et spes of Vatican II ridiculed the churchmen of 1616 as 'fundamentalists' and troublemakers for interpreting the Bible geocentric.
       Having read this book by Fr Robinson I find once again any Catholic who believes in the dogma of Ex nihilo creation, immediately 'in it whole substance' as Vatican I said, is accused of 'fundamentalism.'  It contains a synthesis that infers some long condemned Pythagorean heresies are back again. How sad.

    Way to go!  It's just been posted.  See https://angeluspress.org/products/the-realist-guide-to-religion-and-science.

    Hopefully, others on this forum and elsewhere -- my two previous submitted reviews were never posted -- will submit one star reviews as well.


    Offline cassini

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    Re: SSPX Priest Publicly Smashes Fr. Paul Robinson's (SSPX) Book
    « Reply #35 on: November 11, 2018, 02:20:27 PM »
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  • 2 questions: 1) Do any of the priests of the SSPX take the Oath against Modernism, and 2) Is there any legitimate way in the world that Fr. Robinson's book could have stayed off the Index of Forbidden Books when the Index was in operation?

    I asked a SSPX priest that question today. He told me they take this oath every YEAR.

    Before 1835 yes after 1835, no way.

    By the way klasG4e, thanks for that kind post.

    Offline cassini

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    Re: SSPX Priest Publicly Smashes Fr. Paul Robinson's (SSPX) Book
    « Reply #36 on: November 11, 2018, 02:32:52 PM »
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  • Way to go!  It's just been posted.  See https://angeluspress.org/products/the-realist-guide-to-religion-and-science.

    Hopefully, others on this forum and elsewhere -- my two previous submitted reviews were never posted -- will submit one star reviews as well.

    Fair play to them. Needless to say I had to keep comment in first gear. But here is an interesting point. You get 5 stars to mark. I of course marked none but the site said I had to make the book up for a valid. So I had to give it a one.

    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: SSPX Priest Publicly Smashes Fr. Paul Robinson's (SSPX) Book
    « Reply #37 on: November 11, 2018, 07:21:46 PM »
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  • Fair play to them. Needless to say I had to keep comment in first gear. But here is an interesting point. You get 5 stars to mark. I of course marked none but the site said I had to make the book up for a valid. So I had to give it a one.
    Same as Amazon where interestingly the number of reviews on the book is 15 --  the exact same # as on the Angelus Press site.  The present breakdown of reviews on Amazon is 60%  5 stars and 40% one star with nothing in between.


    Offline Smedley Butler

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    Re: SSPX Priest Publicly Smashes Fr. Paul Robinson's (SSPX) Book
    « Reply #38 on: November 11, 2018, 10:10:33 PM »
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  • The SSPX is lost.

    When did the Truth cease to matter?

    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: SSPX Priest Publicly Smashes Fr. Paul Robinson's (SSPX) Book
    « Reply #39 on: November 12, 2018, 11:31:35 AM »
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  • Ron Skriba who is said to be the world's preeminent promoter of flat earth is scheduled for a 2 hour debate this Thursday evening, November 15th with Robert Sungenis, author of the 700 plus page book Flat Earth / Flat Wrong: An Historical, Biblical, and Scientific Analysis.  Robert will be facing a hostile audience for sure since it will be held during a huge flat Earth conference.

    Query as to why Fr. Robinson has not responded to multiple inquiries (including my own) as to his willingness or lack thereof to debate Robert Sungenis on geocentrism.  Sungenis has clearly expressed a desire to debate the good padre.
    *************************************************************************************************************************

    The debate will be in Denver on November 15h.

    See "Recent News" at https://www.theprinciplemovie.com/


    News
    Debate On Flat Earth With Robert Sungenis & Rob Skiba
    November 3, 2018
    Posted in News
    No Comments
    Tags: Debate, FEIC 2018, flat earth, FLAT EARTH INTERNATIONAL CONFERENCE, Rob Skiba, Robert Sungenis

    x

    Hey, Principle fans!
    We want to inform you of a very interesting event that will occur on November 15, 2018.
    Robert Sungenis, creator, executive producer and actor in The Principle movie, and now author of the new book, Flat Earth/Flat Wrong, will be having a public and formal debate against Rob Skiba, one of the most popular flat-earthers in the country.
    The debate will take place at 7:00 pm to 9:00 pm at the Crown Plaza Airport Convention Center hotel in Denver, Colorado. You can still make reservations at the hotel if you want to come.
    The debate is part of the International Flat Earth conference that will take place November 15 and 16. See www.fe2018.com for more details.
    Speakers include most of the heavyweights of the flat earth movement, such as: Patricia Steere (who  appeared on CBS’s morning show October 14 defending the flat earth);Mark Sargent (the Enclosed World); Bob Knodel (Globebusters); Jeran Campanella (Jeranism); Robbie Davidson (Celebrate Truth); Zen Garcia (Sacred Word Publishing),
    …and nineteen other speakers.
    As most of you know, The Principle debuted October 2014 in Chicago at Regal movie theaters. A few months prior, the media got wind of The Principle and it became the third highest topic of discussion on the Internet, and was covered by over 150 new outlets around the world. By the time The Principle came to Los Angeles theaters, it became the fourth highest “per screen average” nationwide for that weekend, with American Sniper grabbing the top spot.
    But a funny thing happened on the way to Chicago. Just a couple of months later the Flat-Earth movement took off in popularity like it had never seen before. Almost overnight the whole world was talking about whether the Earth was flat or round. Was that just a coincidence? The flat-earthers say no. They freely admit they were riding the coattails of The Principle. Why? Because they figured that since both of us believed the Earth is at the center of the universe and that modern science and the press have done their best to keep this knowledge from us, we had a lot in common. Perhaps we do. But as Clint Eastwood once told us in Dirty Harry, every man has his limitations!
    So, Rob Skiba and Robert Sungenis will go at it to see what, if any, resolution can be made of these two popular movements. Robert is hoping his arguments don’t fall on flat ears
    Questions will be invited from the audience, so come join us and offer your two cents!


    as well as

    http://fe2018.com/speakers/dr-robert-sungenis/#


    Dr. Robert Sungenis


    Robert is an international author, lecturer, debater, producer, and founder of Catholic Apologetics International Publishing, Inc., a non-profit corporation dedicated to teaching and defending the Catholic faith.  He holds advanced degrees in Theology and Religious Studies, from George Washington University; Westminster Theological Seminary; and Calamus International University. He is also the chairman of Stellar Motion Pictures, LLC in West Hollywood, California, which produces movies for scientific and religious audiences. He is the executive producer of the movie, The Principle, which appeared in AMC and Regal Cinemas in October 2014. Robert is also the executive producer, writer, and director of the movie, Journey to the Center of the Universe, which was released on DVD in September 2015. Robert is presently working on a third movie, The Church versus Galileo: An Historical Documentary which will be released in late 2016. Most recently he has written the book “Flat Earth Flat Wrong” and will be defending his stance debating with Rob Skiba at the 2018 Flat Earth International Conference.

    Offline cassini

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    Re: SSPX Priest Publicly Smashes Fr. Paul Robinson's (SSPX) Book
    « Reply #40 on: November 12, 2018, 11:48:11 AM »
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  • Just submitted the following to Angelus Press website on Fr Robinson's book: Let us see if they publish it.

    FAITH OR SCIENCE?
    For 30 years now I have been studying 'faith and science' as it applies to the Catholic faith. Like most I was educated to believe heliocentrism and evolution were proven true by science. One day a friend gave me a book on evolution. It took me ten minutes to see I had been made a fool of. Human reasoning and the absence of any proof showed me this. I discovered the very first theory was the Nebular theory, how their heliocentric solar system evolved.
         I then studied the Galileo case, its science and the Church's part in it. I found it too was based on assumption as absolute truth. I then found churchmen had accepted assumption as truth and sided with 'science.' To do so they had to 'disown' a papal decree of 1616 that it had ruled as irreversible.' Along came Einstein who showed there is no science that can prove geocentrism wrong.  
         1992 a papal commission told all heliocentrism was proven and it was the reason for the Church to change its biblical interpretation of Genesis. This is not true. Nevertheless, in 1965 Gaudium et spes of Vatican II ridiculed the churchmen of 1616 as 'fundamentalists' and troublemakers for interpreting the Bible geocentric.
       Having read this book by Fr Robinson I find once again any Catholic who believes in the dogma of Ex nihilo creation, immediately 'in it whole substance' as Vatican I said, is accused of 'fundamentalism.'  It contains a synthesis that infers some long condemned Pythagorean heresies are back again. How sad.

    The above comment HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM ANGELUS PRESS.

    When one has to CENSOR comment rather than challenge the content of that comment, this places that lot as no better than any anti-Catholic group.

    For there is not any thing secret that shall not be made manifest,
     nor hidden, that shall not be known and come abroad. (Luke: 8:17)


    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: SSPX Priest Publicly Smashes Fr. Paul Robinson's (SSPX) Book
    « Reply #41 on: November 12, 2018, 12:07:13 PM »
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  • The above comment HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM ANGELUS PRESS.

    When one has to CENSOR comment rather than challenge the content of that comment, this places that lot as no better than any anti-Catholic group.

    For there is not any thing secret that shall not be made manifest,
    nor hidden, that shall not be known and come abroad. (Luke: 8:17)

    What a disgrace!  I just sent the following email to support@angeluspress.org

    To whom it may concern:

    Could you be so kind as to inform me why the following review seen between the asterisks below has been removed from your website?  It was placed on the page advertising Fr. Robinson' book, The Realist Guide to Religion and Science.

    ********************************************************************************************************************
    FAITH OR SCIENCE?
    For 30 years now I have been studying 'faith and science' as it applies to the Catholic faith. Like most I was educated to believe heliocentrism and evolution were proven true by science. One day a friend gave me a book on evolution. It took me ten minutes to see I had been made a fool of. Human reasoning and the absence of any proof showed me this. I discovered the very first theory was the Nebular theory, how their heliocentric solar system evolved.
         I then studied the Galileo case, its science and the Church's part in it. I found it too was based on assumption as absolute truth. I then found churchmen had accepted assumption as truth and sided with 'science.' To do so they had to 'disown' a papal decree of 1616 that it had ruled as irreversible.' Along came Einstein who showed there is no science that can prove geocentrism wrong.  
         1992 a papal commission told all heliocentrism was proven and it was the reason for the Church to change its biblical interpretation of Genesis. This is not true. Nevertheless, in 1965 Gaudium et spes of Vatican II ridiculed the churchmen of 1616 as 'fundamentalists' and troublemakers for interpreting the Bible geocentric.
       Having read this book by Fr Robinson I find once again any Catholic who believes in the dogma of Ex nihilo creation, immediately 'in it whole substance' as Vatican I said, is accused of 'fundamentalism.'  It contains a synthesis that infers some long condemned Pythagorean heresies are back again. How sad.
    *********************************************************************************************************************
    Thank you for your anticipated response.

    Respectfully,
    ---------------

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: SSPX Priest Publicly Smashes Fr. Paul Robinson's (SSPX) Book
    « Reply #42 on: November 12, 2018, 12:13:03 PM »
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  • The sspx has been corrupted by 'group think' and a cultish attitude for years now.  It's getting progressively worse.

    Offline Mr G

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    Re: SSPX Priest Publicly Smashes Fr. Paul Robinson's (SSPX) Book
    « Reply #43 on: November 12, 2018, 05:43:04 PM »
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  • What a disgrace!  I just sent the following email to support@angeluspress.org

    To whom it may concern:

    Could you be so kind as to inform me why the following review seen between the asterisks below has been removed from your website?  It was placed on the page advertising Fr. Robinson' book, The Realist Guide to Religion and Science.

    ********************************************************************************************************************
    FAITH OR SCIENCE?
    For 30 years now I have been studying 'faith and science' as it applies to the Catholic faith. Like most I was educated to believe heliocentrism and evolution were proven true by science. One day a friend gave me a book on evolution. It took me ten minutes to see I had been made a fool of. Human reasoning and the absence of any proof showed me this. I discovered the very first theory was the Nebular theory, how their heliocentric solar system evolved.
         I then studied the Galileo case, its science and the Church's part in it. I found it too was based on assumption as absolute truth. I then found churchmen had accepted assumption as truth and sided with 'science.' To do so they had to 'disown' a papal decree of 1616 that it had ruled as irreversible.' Along came Einstein who showed there is no science that can prove geocentrism wrong.  
         1992 a papal commission told all heliocentrism was proven and it was the reason for the Church to change its biblical interpretation of Genesis. This is not true. Nevertheless, in 1965 Gaudium et spes of Vatican II ridiculed the churchmen of 1616 as 'fundamentalists' and troublemakers for interpreting the Bible geocentric.
       Having read this book by Fr Robinson I find once again any Catholic who believes in the dogma of Ex nihilo creation, immediately 'in it whole substance' as Vatican I said, is accused of 'fundamentalism.'  It contains a synthesis that infers some long condemned Pythagorean heresies are back again. How sad.
    *********************************************************************************************************************
    Thank you for your anticipated response.

    Respectfully,
    ---------------
    Ask to speak to James Vogel, he is one who runs Angelus Press.

    Offline klasG4e

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    Re: SSPX Priest Publicly Smashes Fr. Paul Robinson's (SSPX) Book
    « Reply #44 on: November 12, 2018, 05:57:28 PM »
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