Author Topic: SSPX Priest Backpedals on Kauffman Case  (Read 5372 times)

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Offline hollingsworth

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Re: SSPX Priest Backpedals on Kauffman Case
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2021, 12:17:21 PM »
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  • I suspect that a good number of members on CI are still attached to sspx.  So readers will hear little of the truth about that fallen organization on this site.  Confiteor deo is a refreshing exception in her recent post.  Normally we'll hear little here of substance on any topic related to sspx.  The fact is that growing numbers of priests in the Society are revealed to have practiced a perverted lifestyle over at least 35 years. And their predations are routinely covered up by the leadership, to this very day.  If sspx really wanted to do justice, their leaders would confess publicly to the sex crimes of its priests.  They would return the deeds of all chapel properties throughout the world to their original and rightful owners. They would put their  financial affairs in order, shut down all business and investment enterprises in which they are involved, and dissolve the apostolate altogether.  But that will not happen.

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: SSPX Priest Backpedals on Kauffman Case
    « Reply #16 on: February 26, 2021, 12:59:54 PM »
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  • They’d have to get written permission from “The Lodge” near Menzingen to do that.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi


    Offline Carissima

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    Re: SSPX Priest Backpedals on Kauffman Case
    « Reply #17 on: February 26, 2021, 02:29:29 PM »
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  • I suspect that a good number of members on CI are still attached to sspx.  So readers will hear little of the truth about that fallen organization on this site.  Confiteor deo is a refreshing exception in her recent post.  Normally we'll hear little here of substance on any topic related to sspx.  The fact is that growing numbers of priests in the Society are revealed to have practiced a perverted lifestyle over at least 35 years. And their predations are routinely covered up by the leadership, to this very day.  If sspx really wanted to do justice, their leaders would confess publicly to the sex crimes of its priests.  They would return the deeds of all chapel properties throughout the world to their original and rightful owners. They would put their  financial affairs in order, shut down all business and investment enterprises in which they are involved, and dissolve the apostolate altogether.  
    And leave millions of Faithful Catholics without the Mass and the Sacraments? 

    No it is not the ‘SSPX’ itself that is the problem. It is the few bad apples, possible infiltrators, and the foolish laity that put their friendships with fallen men above Christ and the Church that is the problem. 

    Offline Meg

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    Re: SSPX Priest Backpedals on Kauffman Case
    « Reply #18 on: February 26, 2021, 02:53:02 PM »
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  • And leave millions of Faithful Catholics without the Mass and the Sacraments?

    No it is not the ‘SSPX’ itself that is the problem. It is the few bad apples, possible infiltrators, and the foolish laity that put their friendships with fallen men above Christ and the Church that is the problem.

    Sacraments aren't that important to some here. Better to stay home every Sunday, and ruminate over all of the bad priests in the world - especially those in the SSPX.
    "There is no religion higher than my own opinion."

    ~ Traditional Catholics

    Offline hollingsworth

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    Re: SSPX Priest Backpedals on Kauffman Case
    « Reply #19 on: February 26, 2021, 06:25:12 PM »
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  • Quote
    And leave millions of Faithful Catholics without the Mass and the Sacraments? 
    1) There are not "millions" of faithful sspx Catholics.

    2)  It's all about you then, Carissima, isn't it?  Not about scores, maybe hundreds, of sspx youngsters who have been victimized by sspx priests.  Not about sspx leaders who have covered up for these priests.



    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: SSPX Priest Backpedals on Kauffman Case
    « Reply #20 on: February 26, 2021, 07:07:38 PM »
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  • I suspect that a good number of members on CI are still attached to sspx.  So readers will hear little of the truth about that fallen organization on this site.  Confiteor deo is a refreshing exception in her recent post.  Normally we'll hear little here of substance on any topic related to sspx.  The fact is that growing numbers of priests in the Society are revealed to have practiced a perverted lifestyle over at least 35 years. And their predations are routinely covered up by the leadership, to this very day.  If sspx really wanted to do justice, their leaders would confess publicly to the sex crimes of its priests.  They would return the deeds of all chapel properties throughout the world to their original and rightful owners. They would put their  financial affairs in order, shut down all business and investment enterprises in which they are involved, and dissolve the apostolate altogether.  But that will not happen.
    I am "guilty" of attending SSPX masses, but I have seen a lot of bad things. It seems to me that there is a serious psychological problem with most of the SSPX priests. I have not know that many, but judging from the ones I know (about 8 I would guess), I would say that the "SSPX mentality", or "corporate culture" is very problematic. They seem to see the faithful as a nuisance, and that they are really generous to provide you with the sacraments, as if it was not their duty.
    I would say that this is a social problem. Their minds are so focused, so isolated in their own organization, that they cannot really understand how other people live their lives. They seem to have no empathy.
    Abp. Lefebvre organized the SSPX like any other missionary congregation, as far as I understand, but it seems clears to me that this model doesn't work in the terrible crisis of the Church, because no religious congregation was ever this isolated in the Church's history.
    They answer to no one. Even after the nefarious secret dealings with Rome, they still function quite independently. I believe that this created a kind of bubble that they live in. That's why nobody can ask questions. Whoever raises his voice is treated like a troublemaker. The priests fear trouble. They fear upsetting their superior, because they know that they can be expelled very fast if they disagree about something. They have seem it before. If you don't agree with the mandatory mentality, you are seem as an outsider, and you'll surely be out very quickly.
    That is also why they feel entitled to protect bad and criminal priests. They answer to no one. The superior is always right. His is the voice of God.


    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX Priest Backpedals on Kauffman Case
    « Reply #21 on: February 26, 2021, 07:26:26 PM »
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  • ]If sspx really wanted to do justice, their leaders would confess publicly to the sex crimes of its priests.  They would return the deeds of all chapel properties throughout the world to their original and rightful owners. They would put their  financial affairs in order, shut down all business and investment enterprises in which they are involved, and dissolve the apostolate altogether.  But that will not happen.

    I don't agree that they should "dissolve their apostolate" ... since too many people depend on them for the Mass and Sacraments.  They need to keep going for the good of the faithful.  Nevertheless, yes, their ridiculous business activities should cease regardless, as being unbecoming of a Catholic religious organization, and there should be strict reforms to create processes for the handling of abuse charges and other cases of rogue priests.

    When priests regularly fall like that, I suspect that there's something wrong with SSPX spirituality and the seminary formation.  Nor is this a neo-SSPX thing.  Urrutigoity et al. thrived under Bishop Wililamson and were enabled by him, with His Excellency allowing Urrutigoity even while a seminarian to wield a significant amount of informal authority and influence at the seminary, despite the fact that he was to be watched like a hawk against forming particular friendships.  And now Bishop Williamson is harboring that other accused predator.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX Priest Backpedals on Kauffman Case
    « Reply #22 on: February 26, 2021, 07:30:11 PM »
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  • 1) There are not "millions" of faithful sspx Catholics.

    2)  It's all about you then, Carissima, isn't it?  Not about scores, maybe hundreds, of sspx youngsters who have been victimized by sspx priests.  Not about sspx leaders who have covered up for these priests.

    Both of these can be addressed with serious reforms short of dissolving the SSPX entirely.  You eject the ones found guilty of covering things up or even of gross negligence in not restricting these priests, create strict mandatory processes for the reporting of allegations, etc.  I'm not saying this would ever happen, but we're speaking hypothetically, since they're not about to dissolve the SSPX either.


    Offline Meg

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    Re: SSPX Priest Backpedals on Kauffman Case
    « Reply #23 on: February 26, 2021, 07:49:41 PM »
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  • I am "guilty" of attending SSPX masses, but I have seen a lot of bad things. It seems to me that there is a serious psychological problem with most of the SSPX priests. I have not know that many, but judging from the ones I know (about 8 I would guess), I would say that the "SSPX mentality", or "corporate culture" is very problematic. They seem to see the faithful as a nuisance, and that they are really generous to provide you with the sacraments, as if it was not their duty.
    I would say that this is a social problem. Their minds are so focused, so isolated in their own organization, that they cannot really understand how other people live their lives. They seem to have no empathy.
    Abp. Lefebvre organized the SSPX like any other missionary congregation, as far as I understand, but it seems clears to me that this model doesn't work in the terrible crisis of the Church, because no religious congregation was ever this isolated in the Church's history.
    They answer to no one. Even after the nefarious secret dealings with Rome, they still function quite independently. I believe that this created a kind of bubble that they live in. That's why nobody can ask questions. Whoever raises his voice is treated like a troublemaker. The priests fear trouble. They fear upsetting their superior, because they know that they can be expelled very fast if they disagree about something. They have seem it before. If you don't agree with the mandatory mentality, you are seem as an outsider, and you'll surely be out very quickly.
    That is also why they feel entitled to protect bad and criminal priests. They answer to no one. The superior is always right. His is the voice of God.

    I too am guilty of attending SSPX Masses. Even given the problems with the SSPX, they are still better than the alternative.

    You do raise some issues that merit some consideration. While their independence allows them to operate without Modernist control, there are also problems with independence, as you describe above. How it can be resolved?
    "There is no religion higher than my own opinion."

    ~ Traditional Catholics

    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: SSPX Priest Backpedals on Kauffman Case
    « Reply #24 on: February 26, 2021, 08:10:24 PM »
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  • I too am guilty of attending SSPX Masses. Even given the problems with the SSPX, they are still better than the alternative.

    You do raise some issues that merit some consideration. While their independence allows them to operate without Modernist control, there are also problems with independence, as you describe above. How it can be resolved?
    I don't think that we can have a definite in times of crisis as the one we live in, but I believe that Bishop Williamson's position when articulating the Resistance was very interesing, because he tackled this exact problem. He refused to articulate another SSPX like Bishop Faure did. I think that that he has learned that you cannot really make authority work in the crisis of the Church.

    A "confederation" of semi-independent priests could work better than an old fashioned religious congregation like the SSPX in times of crisis, which is the idea of the Resistance, as I understand it, and it makes a lot of sense.

    I find it much easier to trust in one good priest that I know well than in a religious congregation as a whole. It is a strange idea, but, these days, you have to know your priest. You cannot simply accept any priest that HQ sends to administer you the Sacraments. Unfortunately.

    I believe that without a Catholic Pope, no authority will ever function well in the Church.

    Offline Meg

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    Re: SSPX Priest Backpedals on Kauffman Case
    « Reply #25 on: February 26, 2021, 08:29:38 PM »
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  • I don't think that we can have a definite in times of crisis as the one we live in, but I believe that Bishop Williamson's position when articulating the Resistance was very interesing, because he tackled this exact problem. He refused to articulate another SSPX like Bishop Faure did. I think that that he has learned that you cannot really make authority work in the crisis of the Church.

    A "confederation" of semi-independent priests could work better than an old fashioned religious congregation like the SSPX in times of crisis, which is the idea of the Resistance, as I understand it, and it makes a lot of sense.

    I find it much easier to trust in one good priest that I know well than in a religious congregation as a whole. It is a strange idea, but, these days, you have to know your priest. You cannot simply accept any priest that HQ sends to administer you the Sacraments. Unfortunately.

    I believe that without a Catholic Pope, no authority will ever function well in the Church.

    That makes sense - that you can't really make authority work in the Crisis in the Church, and Bp. Williamson gets this. There is the SAJM, but there needs to be a way to train priests in an organized manner, I suppose.

    It is good to try to know your priest - I try to do so by their sermons. We are lucky to have a good priest at the local SSPX chapel. I hope he stays there for awhile.

    Yes, authority doesn't work very well in the Crisis, due to the Pope not being a good example to follow. He's a terrible example. But at least he's an example of how not to behave. The Pope is not passing on the Deposit of Faith, which is his duty.
    "There is no religion higher than my own opinion."

    ~ Traditional Catholics


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: SSPX Priest Backpedals on Kauffman Case
    « Reply #26 on: February 26, 2021, 08:52:46 PM »
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  • I would say that the "SSPX mentality", or "corporate culture" is very problematic. They seem to see the faithful as a nuisance, and that they are really generous to provide you with the sacraments, as if it was not their duty.

    I would say that this is a social problem. Their minds are so focused, so isolated in their own organization, that they cannot really understand how other people live their lives. They seem to have no empathy.

    Your impression of the “Post +W” priestly SSPX formation is correct.

    There have been many topics posted on Cathinfo dealing with the dysfunctional behaviors of the new generation of SSPX priests.

    These young men have been programmed into thinking it’s all about them.  Their egos are stroked, while their intellects are put on ice.  I can’t help but think they’re actually under some form of mind control.

    This priestly culture is not Catholic.

    Any priest who is too concerned about political correctness, as they are, has lost his salt.

    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Giovanni Berto

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    Re: SSPX Priest Backpedals on Kauffman Case
    « Reply #27 on: February 26, 2021, 09:08:15 PM »
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  • Your impression of the “Post +W” priestly SSPX formation is correct.

    There have been many topics posted on Cathinfo dealing with the dysfunctional behaviors of the new generation of SSPX priests.

    These young men have been programmed into thinking it’s all about them.  Their egos are stroked, while their intellects are put on ice.  I can’t help but think they’re actually under some form of mind control.

    This priestly culture is not Catholic.

    Any priest who is too concerned about political correctness, as they are, has lost his salt.
    It is interesting to add that I live in South America. Most of the priests I know studied in the Argentininan seminary. Only two come from Econe. It only makes the argument stronger. It is a general problem, not particular to a certain district or seminary.

    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX Priest Backpedals on Kauffman Case
    « Reply #28 on: February 26, 2021, 09:49:06 PM »
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  • I don't think that we can have a definite in times of crisis as the one we live in, but I believe that Bishop Williamson's position when articulating the Resistance was very interesing, because he tackled this exact problem. He refused to articulate another SSPX like Bishop Faure did. I think that that he has learned that you cannot really make authority work in the crisis of the Church.

    A "confederation" of semi-independent priests could work better than an old fashioned religious congregation like the SSPX in times of crisis, which is the idea of the Resistance, as I understand it, and it makes a lot of sense.

    I find it much easier to trust in one good priest that I know well than in a religious congregation as a whole. It is a strange idea, but, these days, you have to know your priest. You cannot simply accept any priest that HQ sends to administer you the Sacraments. Unfortunately.

    I believe that without a Catholic Pope, no authority will ever function well in the Church.

    Yes, I rather preferred the old model where you had a bunch of Independent priests around ... who had left the Conciliar Church and set up chapels.  Most of them are gone now, but we still have Fr. Carley in Akron having daily Mass in his mid-80s.

    Offline Mirari Vos

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    Re: SSPX Priest Backpedals on Kauffman Case
    « Reply #29 on: February 26, 2021, 10:05:00 PM »
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  • Yes, I rather preferred the old model where you had a bunch of Independent priests around ... who had left the Conciliar Church and set up chapels.  Most of them are gone now, but we still have Fr. Carley in Akron having daily Mass in his mid-80s.
    Does Fr. Carley still have jurisdiction? Does he hold the sedevacantist position?


     

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