Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: SSPX.ORG: Avoiding a false spirit of resistance  (Read 2982 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Santo Subito

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 600
  • Reputation: +84/-2
  • Gender: Male
SSPX.ORG: Avoiding a false spirit of resistance
« on: April 02, 2014, 04:44:21 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • http://sspx.org/en/news-events/news/avoiding-false-spirit-resistance-3764

    Avoiding a false spirit of resistance

    April 02, 2014 District of the USA

    Certainly there is a crisis in the Church, but how should we go about resisting it? What is the Catholic spirit for such circuмstances and how has this been consistently practiced by the SSPX in recent years?

    In the image above, Archbishop Lefebvre ascends the steps into St. Peter's Basilica during the Credo Pilgrimage of 1975.

    We are happy to feature another editorial of Fr. Michel Simoulin from the April issue of Le Seignadou (The Sign of God), newsletter of the SSPX's priory in Montreal de l'Aude, France. [see the last editorial: Why I love the SSPX]

    Editorial

    The great question that we, and above all our superiors, have to face is doubtless the following, as a friend so well put it:

    Is there no danger for the Faith if we accept to place ourselves under an authority, be it a Pope or a bishop, that for the last 50 years has worked unfailingly for the destruction of this Faith, without first coming to terms on the doctrinal questions at stake?
    The first answer is obviously: of course, the danger is great and real, we are all aware of this, and we have always said so and even insisted upon it. It is easy to refer to all the studies we have done on the Council, the New Catechism, John XXIII and John Paul II, for example. It is very obvious that if no “agreement” has yet been concluded, as Bishop Fellay so clearly explained, it is precisely because we do not wish to submit unconditionally to an authority without being sure that it wishes our good and will allow us to continue serving the Tradition of the Church without forcing us to accept Vatican II unconditionally.

    That being said, can we really consider this authority as working for the destruction of the Faith? It would seem more accurate to call it an authority that does not profess the Faith, or does not confess it in its integrity, and that professes truths that are dangerous or even against the Faith. For there is a distinction to be made between an intention to destroy the Faith and a effect that was not directly wished for. It is clear that this loss of the Faith is a consequence of the conciliar doctrine that has been professed for the past 50 years, but can we say that this was and still is the intention of its promoters? If such were the case, these authorities would no longer have the Faith and would no longer be formally Catholic, and to believe this would be implicitly sedevacantist. Absit.

    As for the need to “agree on doctrinal questions first”, we all agree that it is an ideal that we desire with all our heart. It is the ultimate goal of our resistance and of all our procedures. We can call it the “conversion” of Rome, or Rome’s return to the full and integral Tradition. Yes, “as far as the end is concerned, there is no limit to be respected,” but this limit must be respected “in all that is relative to the end, says Aristotle.” (St. Thomas Aquinas—IIa IIae, 184, 3) And it is prudence that inspires the choice of the means to be used to obtain this end. So we must be realistic or pragmatic! Is it not utopic, for example, to imagine (and demand) that today’s Rome re-establish today the obligation to take the anti-Modernist oath, renew the condemnations proclaimed by Quanta Cura and the Syllabus, Pascendi, Humani Generis, or reaffirm the doctrine of Quas Primas on the kingship of Our Lord Jesus Christ? Can we imagine these things being done immediately? Of course, it would be ideal, and we all desire it, but can we hope for it to happen before several generations, or even for it to happen at all if the movement is not kept up by members whose faith and obedience are in no way doubtful? We cannot put our hope in the Ecclesia Dei communities, for they have accepted Vatican II in order to be recognized, and they have promised to raise no doctrinal objection to the current theses. We remain the only and last witnesses to the Tradition of the Church in its integrity, but we cannot keep this treasure for ourselves alone. We must rather aspire to placing it in the hands of the Church, and therefore of the Pope, as soon as possible.

    This desire is the meaning of the decisions and declarations of our General Chapters in 2006 and 2012:

    If, after (the two conditions) are fulfilled, the Society waits for the possibility of doctrinal discussions, it is again with the goal of letting the voice of the traditional doctrine resound all the more loudly in the Church. Indeed, the sole purpose of the contact that it occasionally renews with the Roman authorities is to help them to reclaim the Tradition that the Church cannot reject without losing her identity, and not to seek any advantage for itself, or to conclude an impossible purely practical ‘agreement’. The day Tradition is restored to all its rights, the problem of a reconciliation will no longer exist and the Church will be restored to a new youth.
    The condition of doctrinal discussions was added in 2001-2002 to the two other conditions decreed by Archbishop Lefebvre, when contact was renewed with Rome. Begun after the realization of the first two conditions in 2007 and 2009, these discussions, that lasted a year, did not come to any agreement. Without any doubt, the conditions necessary for establishing a normal relationship are still far from being fulfilled, and there is still a real danger, it is true, in a canonical agreement without a doctrinal agreement first. But must we wait for a miracle without doing anything to restore a new youth to the Church? And what can we reasonably expect and demand at present as far as a doctrinal agreement goes? The only thing that we can hope for and ask for, it seems, is the freedom to discuss Vatican II. Let them stop trying to impose upon us an unconditional acceptance of Vatican II as a condition. Let them admit that this council was and still is “pastoral” and not dogmatic, and that it can therefore legitimately be disputed. By ceasing to impose upon us a complete acceptance of Vatican II, and by granting us this liberty, they would already be making an important step, for they would be implicitly recognizing that our arguments are not worthless. An authority that consents to this would already be an authority that is not hostile to Tradition, and maybe even desirous of reestablishing it in the Church, and that would already be a true conversion for Rome. We are not there yet, and that is why nothing has been done. But if Rome accepted to longer make of Vatican II a super-dogma, it would already be a great victory of grace, and could allow us to imagine reestablishing a certain canonical connection. When will this day dawn? No one knows, but we await it with confidence.

    And now we must open our eyes to another danger, that is not hypothetical, but very real: that of no longer wishing to return to our legitimate place among the societies recognized by Rome, of losing the desire for the Church and for Rome. No longer desiring a normal relation with Rome and the Church is a shadow of the schismatic spirit. We have been living in independence from the Pope and the Bishops for a very long time, as if that were normal. We pretend to defend the doctrine, but we all run the risk of establishing a chosen doctrine, abandoning certain dogmas, those that bother us, especially those concerning the primacy of Peter. We all run the risk of becoming accustomed to the abnormal, of living in a comfortable situation, as if it were right and in conformity with the spirit of the Church. The Pope and the bishops are little by little confined to the realm of the beings “of reason”, with no influence on concrete life; Rome is no more that a pilgrimage site, and the Church is a Mystical Body with Jesus Christ for a head, the Holy Ghost for a soul, and the “Trads” for members. Our priests can quickly become gurus. Everyone could be a Pope with his Denzinger in hand, and every father of every family could be the Pope of his family. In these conditions, our children would no longer have any idea of what the real Church is in its full incarnation, from head to members, in all the realities of daily life.

    As for authority… recognized in principle but not admitted in fact as far as the Pope is concerned, it risks no longer being recognized at any degree whatsoever. Every superior runs the risk of being challenged, criticized even publicly… and even families will fall apart. Why obey a father who does not obey the Pope, the bishop, the priest?

    A summit implies danger on both sides. That of an unsafe recognition is one; the internal danger we have just described is another. While the former remains very hypothetical, the latter is not imminent; it is not even knocking at the door… It has already entered into our city and our families!

    Are we right, then, to fear the first danger? Certainly, but without going so far as to lose hope and faith in the grace of the Church. And we will be able to face and conquer it only if we are able to unite our strengths instead of dividing them, to face it under the wise and prudent direction of the leaders God has given us. “A kingdom divided against itself will fall,” and the dialectics diffused by the “resistance” only weaken us in our true resistance against the sickness that eats away at the Church, and in our fidelity to the path wisely laid out and followed by Archbishop Lefebvre. One would think that the resistance has no other enemy than Bishop Fellay and the Society. They have obviously rejected any reference to Rome, and all that is left to justify their resistance is us! And if we are told that these “resisters” have been treated unfairly, we can suggest reading and meditating the lives of the saints and the great figures of the Church, who knew what the virtue of obedience is, and knew how to present their difficulties to their superiors without calling the entire planet to witness, on the pretext of saving the Faith, justice and truth. Who is more unjust: an authority that can be severe, perhaps even too severe, or a subordinate who diffuses all his resentment without the slightest prudence, and does not hesitate to publicly dishonor his superiors?

    Read and meditate the example of Archbishop Lefebvre. When he left his congregation of the Holy Ghost Fathers who were falling apart, how many fathers did he call to follow him? Not one. How many pamphlets and books did he write to denounce his congregation’s decline? Not one. He did not return to the General Chapter and he left with a simple suitcase. And read the life of St. Therese Couderc, founder and first superior of the Sisters of the Cenacle, who was deposed and replaced by a rich widow, who had only just entered the congregation, and who was named founder and superior. St. Therese, who had done nothing wrong, withdrew without a murmur against this flagrant injustice, while the congregation fell to pieces little by little. (It would revive after this trial, see complementary text.) How different from the noisy departures of the last few months that show clearly that the preoccupations of some have little in common with those of the men and women in love with God.

    On the pretext of the crisis in the Church, must we resign ourselves to no longer trying to imitate the saints? Must we let this crisis behead the hope in our hearts?

    Our Lady of Holy Hope, convert us.


    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 15064
    • Reputation: +9980/-3161
    • Gender: Male
    SSPX.ORG: Avoiding a false spirit of resistance
    « Reply #1 on: April 02, 2014, 05:31:33 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Wow.

     :facepalm:

    Minds are being prepared indeed.

    The article reads like an indictment of the last 26 yrs of the sspx.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline Stephanos II

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 331
    • Reputation: +1/-1
    • Gender: Male
      • h
    SSPX.ORG: Avoiding a false spirit of resistance
    « Reply #2 on: April 02, 2014, 05:37:47 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The Arian "bishops" are on the prowl.

    Offline stevusmagnus

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 3728
    • Reputation: +825/-1
    • Gender: Male
      • h
    SSPX.ORG: Avoiding a false spirit of resistance
    « Reply #3 on: April 02, 2014, 06:03:46 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Part of me feels like Tradition has been infiltrated. The SSPX now appears impotent, failing to speak out nearly the way they used to. Apparently getting primed for an Ecclesia Dei neutering. The only thing keeping them from an agreement, according to this article is Rome allowing them to "discuss" VCII openly. Rome may actually take that deal, allowing them some meaningless room to give their "opinion" on VCII in a mild way, while not doing any damage. Then they will start to crush them slowly from the top down until they are assimilated.

    CMTV appears similarly infiltrated. They went from doing a conference with John Vennarri to now blasting anyone who does not idolize Francis.

    Offline Kelley

    • Jr. Member
    • **
    • Posts: 209
    • Reputation: +659/-7
    • Gender: Male
    SSPX.ORG: Avoiding a false spirit of resistance
    « Reply #4 on: April 02, 2014, 06:23:49 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • This article just proves again that Society leaders' ecclesiology stands in polar opposite to their Founder's.  
    They truly believe themselves (SSPX) to be outside the Church.
     
    What gall placing the Archbishop's image next to this rubbish!


    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

    • Supporter
    • ***
    • Posts: 1424
    • Reputation: +1360/-142
    • Gender: Female
    SSPX.ORG: Avoiding a false spirit of resistance
    « Reply #5 on: April 02, 2014, 08:03:24 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The author of this piece is effeminate both in style and content.  When the Catholic faith needs men of true virtue this is what we get.  He is not a man of conscience.  If he were, he would have left for Rome a long time ago for there is no possible moral imperative to justify his separation.  He has not the courage to travel alone and if the General Chapter came to their senses tomorrow and forced +Fellay’s resignation replacing him with a militant Catholic with actual convictions, this author would whistle the new tune the very next day.  This person cannot defend the faith because the defense of the faith is measured by deeds even if those deeds constitute nothing more than the marrow of fortitude which is holding firm.  This author is in a position of authority because the one who put him in authority is no better.

    The SSPX does not have to do anything with regard to Rome.  If and when Rome wants to be open to tradition they can, on their own, regularize the SSPX in any way they want.   As far as accepting or rejecting Vatican II conditionally or unconditionally, that is nonsense, a non issue.  No one should have a problem with the unconditional acceptance of Vatican II for what it is – a pastoral council, nothing more than an unusual extra-ordinary engagement of the most ordinary magisterium.  The Council taught nothing that binds the Catholic conscience to anything that even suggests or implies anything contrary to Catholic dogma, or undermines any of the immemorial ecclesiastical traditions of our Church which are necessary attributes of the faith that make it known and communicable.  If Rome or any local ordinary says otherwise the only reply is to demand that they produce an infallible dogmatic declaration or syllabus of errors definitively defining otherwise.  That is the reason that Jesus Christ gave the attribute of authority to His Church.  If the Vatican II people do not want to exercise that authority then there is no obligation to follow them.  

    The author cannot wait for someone to tell him what to do. After 50 years he still thinks it prudent to assume good will on the part of Rome.  “By their fruit you shall know them.”  Name one example of the false doctrine of ecuмenism and Religious Liberty being extended to traditional Catholics for the free exercise of the faith.  It has never happened.  These novelties are uniformly applied to corrupt the faith.  This hypocrisy is only possible with bad will.  The author  does not see “bad will” because that would mean that there is a determined enemy in front of him that he must fight.  ABSIT!!!!!!

    He has the Roman authorities of such good will that they, “professes truths that are dangerous or even against the Faith.”  There is no such thing as “truths” that are dangerous or even against the Faith.”   He prefers to call lies “truths” for fear of offending.   And he has the temerity to be critical of the Ecclesi Dei communities!

    And that other “danger of no longer wishing to return to our legitimate place among the societies recognized by Rome”  is of course not our problem.  As long as a Catholic keeps the faith and practices as far as possible the ecclesiastical traditions that are the material manifestation of that faith, he is doing all that he can and all that God requires of him.  Our duty is to fight.  To win or lose is not what is asked from us.  There will be many who will fight and, like Jesus Christ, end their lives in apparent defeat and humiliation, all for their greater glory.  The author is more afraid of being accused of having a “schismatic spirit” than of defending the faith.  He is “establishing a chosen doctrine, abandoning certain dogmas” because he places human respect before the honor and glory of God.  No dogma ever “bothers” a true Catholic including the “primacy of Peter.”  But every true Catholic knows that even the authority of Peter cannot be used to harm the faith.  What he is worried about is “becoming accustomed to the abnormal, of living in a comfortable situation.”  If Jesus Christ has in His merciful providence determined that His Mystical Body should suffer as He did in His Passion then so be it.  We should accept the chalice just as our Head did before us.  

    St. John of the Cross says that Jesus Christ suffered annihilation physically, spiritually, and morally in the eyes of the world and in the abandonment of His Father.  Should His Mystical Body expect less?  “The servant is not greater than his Master.”  When Peter suggested to Jesus that He should not go to His meet His Passion, Jesus said, “Go behind Me Satan.”  This author is saying the same to every faithful Catholic.  Our reply to him should be the same, “Go  behind me,  Satan, because thou savorest not the things that are of God, but that are of men .”
    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)

    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

    • Supporter
    • ***
    • Posts: 1424
    • Reputation: +1360/-142
    • Gender: Female
    SSPX.ORG: Avoiding a false spirit of resistance
    « Reply #6 on: April 02, 2014, 09:18:17 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Stephanos II,

    It does not "utterly vitiate any idea of Papal Infallibility."  It has nothing to do with "papal infallibility."  Infallibility is an attribute of the Church essentially and only an attribute of the Pope accidentally.  The Pope to teach infallibility must exercise the attribute of Authority by the virtue of his office in the Church to engage the attribute of Infallibility of the Church for the explicit purpose of teaching Catholic doctrine and/or morals in either the Ordinary and Universal or the Extra-ordinary form of the Magisterium that will teach without the possibility of error.  There is nothing preventing the Pope as a person from going into error or leading others into error based upon his personal authority and grace of state.  There is not a single example of the Vatican II popes imposing error by virtue of the attribute of Infallibility of the Church.   Cornelius a Lapide in his biblical commentary says that the Church has always held that the promise of Jesus to Peter that his faith would not fail was a personal promise to him and not to his successors.  The only promise to his successors is that they would not authoritatively lead the Church into error.  That promise is with us even to this very day.  Vatican II has no greater authority than being an exercise of the ordinary magisterium which is nothing more that churchmen teaching by virtue of their grace of state.  Whenever this teaching is, even if only in appearance, contrary to any Catholic truth it must be rejected.  Even the Novus Ordo churchmen recognize this and have instituted the 1989 Profession of Faith with its third addendum to the Nicene Creed which demands the "submission of the mind and will to the authentic magisterium."  That is, they demand from Catholic obedience to men as men based upon their authority as men what can only be given to God.  The answer to Vatican II is to force those in authority to definitively define its teachings and condemn its "hermeneutic of rupture."  They cannot do this because God will not permit it.
    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)

    Offline Clemens Maria

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2246
    • Reputation: +1484/-605
    • Gender: Male
    SSPX.ORG: Avoiding a false spirit of resistance
    « Reply #7 on: April 02, 2014, 09:30:10 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Quote from: Kelley
    This article just proves again that Society leaders' ecclesiology stands in polar opposite to their Founder's.  
    They truly believe themselves (SSPX) to be outside the Church.
     
    What gall placing the Archbishop's image next to this rubbish!


    Yes, exactly right my friend!

    Quote from: Clemens Maria
    Quote from: parentsfortruth
    You know what the craziest thing about this disaster of a piece is?

    Quote
    We remain the only and last witnesses to the Tradition of the Church in its integrity, but we cannot keep this treasure for ourselves alone. We must rather aspire to placing it in the hands of the Church, and therefore of the Pope, as soon as possible.


    That is the most arrogant statement I've heard in a long time.

    There are still independent priests out there that have nothing to do with the SSPX. They act like they're the only ones out there maintaining tradition.


    I guess the flip side of that quote is that as long as the treasure remains in their hands it will remain outside the Church.  Weird.



    Offline Francisco

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1150
    • Reputation: +843/-18
    • Gender: Male
    SSPX.ORG: Avoiding a false spirit of resistance
    « Reply #8 on: April 03, 2014, 01:14:43 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • This pope (?) will finish off the SSPX.


    Offline cantatedomino

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1019
    • Reputation: +0/-1
    • Gender: Male
    SSPX.ORG: Avoiding a false spirit of resistance
    « Reply #9 on: April 05, 2014, 10:12:27 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • SSPXBRAND: Certainly there is a crisis in the Church, but how should we go about resisting it?

    OBSERVATION: After 50 years of total anguish, suffering, moving out of reach of heretics, schismatics, infidels, queers, and other assorted freaks, setting up independent chapels, producing volumes of analysis, consecrating bishops, and ordaining priests, this clownish vanity piece has the hardihood to make believe it represents Tradition, and in its very name ask what should Tradition do, as if it were a case of first impression.

    As if Tradition, loyal to Christ the King and wholly dependent on His Divine Assistance, could ever find itself on the wrong course.

    It is absolutely certain that this question is set for the sole purpose of getting the school of fish to change course as a unity, a one.

    This article is a test balloon to gauge how much resistance remains inside the rank and file pew sitters.

    We may be in for: Round II: Purge of the Schmoes.

    [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/embed/ufgJvhHrIK4[/youtube]

     

    Offline cantatedomino

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1019
    • Reputation: +0/-1
    • Gender: Male
    SSPX.ORG: Avoiding a false spirit of resistance
    « Reply #10 on: April 05, 2014, 10:15:54 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • SSPXBRAND: What is the Catholic spirit for such circuмstances and how has this been consistently practiced by the SSPX in recent years?

    OBSERVATION: Prepare for a dose of newcatechism.

    Newcatechism for the newtrad abiding in the newSSPX.



    Offline cantatedomino

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1019
    • Reputation: +0/-1
    • Gender: Male
    SSPX.ORG: Avoiding a false spirit of resistance
    « Reply #11 on: April 05, 2014, 12:30:07 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • SSPXBRAND/SIMOULIN: Is there no danger for the Faith if we accept to place ourselves under an authority, be it a Pope or a bishop . . . It is very obvious that if no “agreement” has yet been concluded, as Bishop Fellay so clearly explained, it is precisely because we do not wish to submit unconditionally to an authority without being sure that it wishes our good and will allow us to continue serving the Tradition of the Church without forcing us to accept Vatican II unconditionally.

    OBSERVATION: Catholics do not "agree to submit" to ecclesiastical authority if they wish to remain in the Faith.  

    Wherefore there are only two possibilities:

    a) the SSPX is not Catholic;

    b) the 'authority' they refer to is not Catholic.