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Author Topic: SSPX offers Mass at St. Peters in Rome  (Read 9970 times)

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Online Miseremini

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SSPX offers Mass at St. Peters in Rome
« on: August 28, 2014, 05:46:56 PM »
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  • Looked at the SSPX website from the US and they've just posted a video of SSPX priest offering Mass at the shrine of their patron in Rome.

    Sorry don 't know how to make a link to it.  Perhaps someone could post it.
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]



    Offline 2Vermont

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    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)


    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #2 on: August 28, 2014, 05:58:30 PM »
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  • Note the source: Rorate Caeli is NOT a "Resistance" source. On the contrary! They are quite anti-Resistance. And the video has the SSPX logo in the upper-left corner, so this is legit.

    http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/08/sspx-priest-celebrates-mass-in-saint.html

     By the gracious permission of the higher direction of the Papal Basilica of Saint Peter in the Vatican, the faithful of the church of Saint-Martin-des-Gaules, Noisy-le-Grand (near Paris) -- who were in Rome for a summer vacation pilgrimage led by Father Michel de Sivry, of the Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX) -- were able to attend a Mass at the Altar of Saint Pius X, where the saintly Pope's body reposes.

    The Mass in the Vatican Basilica was celebrated by Fr. de Sivry on August 9, 2014, during this special centennial year of the dies natalis of Saint Pius X.

    Video below:
    http://laportelatine.org/mediatheque/videotheque/messe_a_st_pierre_de_rome_140809/messe_a_st_pierre_de_rome_140809.php
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    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #3 on: August 28, 2014, 05:59:03 PM »
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  • Here is a comment from "gpmtrad" on Angelqueen:

    Quote from: gpmtrad
    Note the kaftan-style NO “chasuble” and lack of cassocks or surplices on the sneakered altar boys. As well, veils seem to have largely disappeared from the ladies’ heads.
    And, as is obvious, this is an official product of the SSPX (logo in upper left of video.)
    Yep, sure glad to see “nothing’s changed” in the Society.
    And, no (for the tenth time at least!). I’m NOT in the “resistance,” have nothing to do with it and have never personally met even one member of it. Nor am I in the pew of any SSPX chapel and have not been for at least the last six or seven years. I’ve observed the cινιℓ ωαr WITHIN the Society since 2012 and I consider it a catastrophe for both Menzingen and the “resistors.” My point here is that the folks who are convinced that all is not as well as the SSPX insists, are NOT without their point to make, on occasion.
    There MAY be more to this story but the visuals here demand some SERIOUS explanations. At the very least, I am inclined to think that a devout SSPX advocate would insist on nothing less.

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    Offline untitled

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    « Reply #4 on: August 28, 2014, 06:01:11 PM »
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  • The celebrant uses a modernist ornament (is not not a gothic raditional ornament) and not uses the maniple.
    There is no altar cards.
    Acolytes are dressed informally and do not touch the bell.
    No stock burse of the corporal nor tray of communion (the pall is used in place of this).
    The Mass of the Virgin must be celebrated with white ornaments, but these are red.
    Many women have no veil.

    (Google translation)


    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #5 on: August 28, 2014, 06:22:57 PM »
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  • Quote from: untitled

    1. The celebrant uses a modernist ornament (is not not a gothic raditional ornament) and not uses the maniple.
    2. There is no altar cards.
    3. Acolytes are dressed informally and do not touch the bell.
    4. No stock burse of the corporal nor tray of communion (the pall is used in place of this).
    5. The Mass of the Virgin must be celebrated with white ornaments, but these are red.
    6. Many women have no veil.
    (Google translation)


    I don't have a perfect answer to all of these, but for some of them there is a good explanation.

    1. (Good question!)
    2. Altar cards are just memory aids; they are not sacramentals nor are they necessary.
    3. This is also OK for something like a pilgrimage, where a cassock/surplice isn't available. They also didn't pack one because they didn't think they'd be able to say Mass in one of these places. They were probably wearing sneakers because they were good walking shoes for a pilgrimage.
    4. Usually the priest uses his own (brass) paten, the corporal (a linen cloth that is purified carefully by the priest) or the pall (square, stiff piece of linen) if a server paten is not available. I think these are all adequate "expedient" means of protecting the Blessed Sacrament when a server paten is not available. This one I'm not 100% sure about. The Google Translation here was quite garbled.
    At any rate, I'm giving the benefit of the doubt on this one for now.
    5. (Good question!)
    6. (Good question!) Though I believe it's already common knowledge that Europe is much more liberal in this department. In general, Europe has slid further downhill than the USA as far as liberalism, morality, etc.
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    Offline JPaul

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    « Reply #6 on: August 28, 2014, 07:40:21 PM »
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  • One must wonder if the altar had previously been desecrated by a celebration of the sacrilegious Novus Ordo?


    Online Miseremini

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    « Reply #7 on: August 28, 2014, 08:02:26 PM »
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  • When on pilgrimage doesn't the priest take a Mass kit with him to offer Mass daily for his pilgrims?  So wouldn't he have a paten, chasuble, maniple, amice etc with him?
    Also his NO vestment is not like the traditional vestments which had a cross on the back (like the ones seen to be worn by Bishop Williamson)
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]



    Offline Matthew

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    « Reply #8 on: August 28, 2014, 09:05:00 PM »
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  • I forgot to post a picture of the event:

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    Offline trento

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    « Reply #9 on: August 29, 2014, 12:57:55 AM »
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  • I read a comment elsewhere:

    Missa Salve sancte parens but wearing red. Most likely it was from the basilica sacristy. And the altar boys came in after father started in lay clothing....looks like a rush job, no preparation. Perhaps they were visiting St Peter's without expecting to say Mass there, and the priest just asked the person-in-charge in passing whether he could say Mass and got an OK, and had to use whatever was prepared by the basilica sacristy for that day (red for St Edith Stein in the new calendar), no maniple, no 1962 altar missal.

    By the way, it is a known thing that French women in particular don't fancy wearing veils. Not even the SSPX has been able to change this liberal attitude as it has been so entrenched, almost cultural.

    Offline 2Vermont

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    « Reply #10 on: August 29, 2014, 04:35:58 AM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    Note the source: Rorate Caeli is NOT a "Resistance" source. On the contrary! They are quite anti-Resistance. And the video has the SSPX logo in the upper-left corner, so this is legit.

    http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/08/sspx-priest-celebrates-mass-in-saint.html

     By the gracious permission of the higher direction of the Papal Basilica of Saint Peter in the Vatican, the faithful of the church of Saint-Martin-des-Gaules, Noisy-le-Grand (near Paris) -- who were in Rome for a summer vacation pilgrimage led by Father Michel de Sivry, of the Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX) -- were able to attend a Mass at the Altar of Saint Pius X, where the saintly Pope's body reposes.

    The Mass in the Vatican Basilica was celebrated by Fr. de Sivry on August 9, 2014, during this special centennial year of the dies natalis of Saint Pius X.

    Video below:
    http://laportelatine.org/mediatheque/videotheque/messe_a_st_pierre_de_rome_140809/messe_a_st_pierre_de_rome_140809.php


    I thought this comment was interesting from the SSPX site itself (which I posted above):

    Not only has it been reported that this occurred with the prior knowledge and consent of the basilica's "highest authority", but a video team even filmed the event for the French District's website, LaPorteLatine.org, where it may be watched.


    Exactly who was the "highest authority"?  Would that be Francis?  Why not mention the name?

    And it appears there was "prior knowledge" so it wasn't a last minute deal (another poster suggested this).
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)


    Offline Maria Auxiliadora

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    « Reply #11 on: August 29, 2014, 07:04:09 AM »
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  • Quote from: 2Vermont
    Quote from: Matthew
    Note the source: Rorate Caeli is NOT a "Resistance" source. On the contrary! They are quite anti-Resistance. And the video has the SSPX logo in the upper-left corner, so this is legit.

    http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/08/sspx-priest-celebrates-mass-in-saint.html

     By the gracious permission of the higher direction of the Papal Basilica of Saint Peter in the Vatican, the faithful of the church of Saint-Martin-des-Gaules, Noisy-le-Grand (near Paris) -- who were in Rome for a summer vacation pilgrimage led by Father Michel de Sivry, of the Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX) -- were able to attend a Mass at the Altar of Saint Pius X, where the saintly Pope's body reposes.

    The Mass in the Vatican Basilica was celebrated by Fr. de Sivry on August 9, 2014, during this special centennial year of the dies natalis of Saint Pius X.

    Video below:
    http://laportelatine.org/mediatheque/videotheque/messe_a_st_pierre_de_rome_140809/messe_a_st_pierre_de_rome_140809.php


    I thought this comment was interesting from the SSPX site itself (which I posted above):

    Not only has it been reported that this occurred with the prior knowledge and consent of the basilica's "highest authority", but a video team even filmed the event for the French District's website, LaPorteLatine.org, where it may be watched.


    Exactly who was the "highest authority"?  Would that be Francis?  Why not mention the name?

    And it appears there was "prior knowledge" so it wasn't a last minute deal (another poster suggested this).


    I tend to think the "highest authority" set the conditions and were ready to record the compromise. I cannot imagine an SSPX or any other  priest not being ready for such an event.
    The love of God be your motivation, the will of God your guiding principle, the glory of God your goal.
    (St. Clement Mary Hofbauer)

    Offline Cristera

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    « Reply #12 on: August 29, 2014, 07:47:25 AM »
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  • Quote from: 2Vermont
    Quote from: Matthew
    Note the source: Rorate Caeli is NOT a "Resistance" source. On the contrary! They are quite anti-Resistance. And the video has the SSPX logo in the upper-left corner, so this is legit.

    http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2014/08/sspx-priest-celebrates-mass-in-saint.html

     By the gracious permission of the higher direction of the Papal Basilica of Saint Peter in the Vatican, the faithful of the church of Saint-Martin-des-Gaules, Noisy-le-Grand (near Paris) -- who were in Rome for a summer vacation pilgrimage led by Father Michel de Sivry, of the Society of Saint Pius X (SSPX) -- were able to attend a Mass at the Altar of Saint Pius X, where the saintly Pope's body reposes.

    The Mass in the Vatican Basilica was celebrated by Fr. de Sivry on August 9, 2014, during this special centennial year of the dies natalis of Saint Pius X.

    Video below:
    http://laportelatine.org/mediatheque/videotheque/messe_a_st_pierre_de_rome_140809/messe_a_st_pierre_de_rome_140809.php


    I thought this comment was interesting from the SSPX site itself (which I posted above):

    Not only has it been reported that this occurred with the prior knowledge and consent of the basilica's "highest authority", but a video team even filmed the event for the French District's website, LaPorteLatine.org, where it may be watched.


    Exactly who was the "highest authority"?  Would that be Francis?  Why not mention the name?

    And it appears there was "prior knowledge" so it wasn't a last minute deal (another poster suggested this).


      ^
    THIS

    Online Miseremini

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    « Reply #13 on: August 29, 2014, 03:39:14 PM »
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  • Can anyone translate the sermon?

     Someone told me is said in part, " "We're very fortunate to be here in Rome. Rome is the capital of Christendom. Rome is the head of the Church." Rome, Rome, Rome.

    ...but not one word about modernist Rome.
    "Let God arise, and let His enemies be scattered: and them that hate Him flee from before His Holy Face"  Psalm 67:2[/b]


    Offline 2Vermont

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    « Reply #14 on: August 29, 2014, 03:43:48 PM »
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  • Quote from: Miseremini
    Can anyone translate the sermon?

     Someone told me is said in part, " "We're very fortunate to be here in Rome. Rome is the capital of Christendom. Rome is the head of the Church." Rome, Rome, Rome.

    ...but not one word about modernist Rome.


    Did they mention that Francis never even mentioned Pius X's centenary?

    This also looks more like a diocesan/indult TLM.
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)