Author Topic: SSPX offers Mass at St. Peters in Rome (Read 11336 times)

poche · « **Reply #30 on:** August 31, 2014, 10:20:34 PM »

Quote from: Neil Obstat

Quote from: eddiearent

Even when the Novus Ordo #### simulate the 62 Missal at St. Peter's they have proper vestments.

You can't tell me St. Peter's doesn't have a maniple or burse.

You have a lot to learn, eddiearent..............

Matthew has it right. It looks like this was planned.

However, I can personally attest that as of about 6 years ago, the vestments and supplies to be found at St. Peter's Basilica available for the use of visiting priests was utterly abominable. Not only did they have nothing but everyday NovusOrdo garb (I wouldn't call them vestments), but they were RAGS, JUNK, and RIDICULOUS. Rainbow colors in tatters, with stains and threadbare, as if the "gαys" had had far too much fun with them; rug-like heavy coarse woven things that wouldn't even pass for a Mexican sarape; goofy one-stripe toga-like sheets with a hole in the middle for someone to put his head through it -- didn't they have something like that for a guillotine?

There was literally nothing of a traditional description to choose from, and the priest was left to fend for himself as best he could, with the meager chasubles that he had brought (carrying all the colors of chasubles and altar linens that you might need would take the luggage of 4 people to haul around). But he was not forbidden to bring in his own equipment, or, should I say, accoutrements? This is WAR, after all.

Had he known in advance he would have been more prepared, but he had thought, "This is St. Peter's, so they'll certainly have a nice selection of vestments and everything."

Surprise, surprise: they did not.

And the priest is well-connected in the SSPX, too, so I have no question but that the word got around. I'm sure he's not the only one who has tried to say a Traditional Mass in the Basilica in the past decade.

So let the word be known, that IF YOU WANT TO OFFER A REAL MASS IN ST PETER'S BASILICA, YOU MUST COME PREPARED WITH EVERYTHING YOU WILL NEED, just as you would, as Centroamerica here said (Surely it crossed this priest's mind, "hey we're going to Rome, we will need to say Mass, even if only in the parking lot!"), if you were to say Mass on the Street, a la Frs. Chazal & Pfeiffer in Asia 2 years ago. Maybe someone here remembers the city? They had been LOCKED OUT of the church by Fr. Couture, DS of Asia.

As Fr. Chazal said at that time, "This is war."

.

It could be that with a lot of visiting priests and other people coming and going they may have trouble keeping good vestments available.

poche · « **Reply #31 on:** August 31, 2014, 10:22:32 PM »

Quote from: 2Vermont

Quote from: poche
Quote from: Centroamerica
Quote from: poche
Quote from: Matthew
It's quite possible this was just a token compromise.

"Hey, SSPX. You want to distinguish yourselves from Sedevacantism so bad. You want to be accepted by Rome so bad. How about this. You can say Mass in this Basilica if your priest is willing to wear a standard Novus Ordo chasuble while saying it. And you have to use red, which is the color for today's feast day on the new calendar. Deal?"

It's the proverbial grain of incense offered to Baal, or the piece of bacon offered to the Jєωιѕн youths to eat. That's what it is.

They said, "Hey frog. Hop in this pot. Ok, the water is 70 degrees, fresh from the tap. Do you care if I turn on the heat until it's 72 degrees? The frog said, "no problem! I can survive until it reaches 100 degrees!"

Sure, but the next day he'll ask for 74, then 76, then 78... you get the idea. At some point, it will cross the line from "harmless compromise" to "deny the Faith".

And getting a string of "yes"es -- each filmed, docuмented and bragged about to the whole world -- will make the next "yes" that much more unstoppable.

Are they really likely to say "no" to the 11th request, when they've answered YES to the first 10? I'm sure that 11th request won't be that much worse than the 10th...

He may not have brought his own vestments with him. Or he may not have had the appropriate colors. He chose to honor the saint by wearing red.

I am inclined to avoid criticism because I don't know all the details, and now someone mentioned the lack of veils is cultural. If it is cultural then it happens in French resistance Masses also. This should be considered. We don't know all the details. However, what leads me to believe there is a deceptive element here is the parroting of the event being "unplanned" and "unprepared". Like someone else mentioned, it is a pilgrimage! A pilgrimage to Rome! The first thing you think to bring are proper vestments or at least a veil! Combine this with the fact that they had a camera crew ready and I am inclined to dismiss their defense as not trustworthy. You have a camera crew, but you can't have proper vestments. I suspect that the lack of proper vestments was intentional and those saying otherwise are being deceptive. No matter the case, it doesn't look good. Surely it crossed this priest's mind, "hey we're going to Rome, we will need to say Mass, even if only in the parking lot!". If a better excuse was offered, perhaps the vestments were lost, ruined, stolen, or simply he forgot them on accident.....but not that he improvised at the last minute to have a Mass that was unexpected. What kind of priest goes to Rome with his faithful as the only priest, and doesn't foresee that he will offer Mass. It appears very dishonest what is offered as the excuse for not having traditional vestments.

He may have had green vestments but not the red ones. This was the Vigil of St Lawrence. They were traveling on a pilgrimage. He may not have been able to pack all the colors for every day that they would be traveling.

Seriously? You have had way too much practice making excuses for others.

I think we should be fair to the priest in question. We were not traveling with them. They may not have had the space to carry the full range of liturgical colors.

RomanCatholic1953 · « **Reply #32 on:** August 31, 2014, 10:52:24 PM »

Saint Pius X looks very happy that a Traditional Mass is being celebrated
celebrated at his altar.
At lease he is not alone in this now Hugh Novus Ordo Church far
different than in his lifetime.
Those two altar boys that came up and served Mass reminded of
an incident that happened in 1964. I came into a church and the
Priest just started Mass without a server. I went up immediately
and served his Mass. It was about an year since I served a
previous Mass.
The only other times was at Saint Dominic's in Washington, D.C.
When I last served Mass in 1969 the only Latin was at the
offertory. The Mass was in the Dominican Rite.
This is 50 years ago now in the past.

trento · « **Reply #33 on:** September 01, 2014, 04:55:04 AM »

Quote from: Neil Obstat

Quote from: eddiearent

Even when the Novus Ordo #### simulate the 62 Missal at St. Peter's they have proper vestments.

You can't tell me St. Peter's doesn't have a maniple or burse.

You have a lot to learn, eddiearent..............

Matthew has it right. It looks like this was planned.

However, I can personally attest that as of about 6 years ago, the vestments and supplies to be found at St. Peter's Basilica available for the use of visiting priests was utterly abominable. Not only did they have nothing but everyday NovusOrdo garb (I wouldn't call them vestments), but they were RAGS, JUNK, and RIDICULOUS. Rainbow colors in tatters, with stains and threadbare, as if the "gαys" had had far too much fun with them; rug-like heavy coarse woven things that wouldn't even pass for a Mexican sarape; goofy one-stripe toga-like sheets with a hole in the middle for someone to put his head through it -- didn't they have something like that for a guillotine?

There was literally nothing of a traditional description to choose from, and the priest was left to fend for himself as best he could, with the meager chasubles that he had brought (carrying all the colors of chasubles and altar linens that you might need would take the luggage of 4 people to haul around). But he was not forbidden to bring in his own equipment, or, should I say, accoutrements? This is WAR, after all.

Had he known in advance he would have been more prepared, but he had thought, "This is St. Peter's, so they'll certainly have a nice selection of vestments and everything."

Surprise, surprise: they did not.

And the priest is well-connected in the SSPX, too, so I have no question but that the word got around. I'm sure he's not the only one who has tried to say a Traditional Mass in the Basilica in the past decade.

So let the word be known, that IF YOU WANT TO OFFER A REAL MASS IN ST PETER'S BASILICA, YOU MUST COME PREPARED WITH EVERYTHING YOU WILL NEED, just as you would, as Centroamerica here said (Surely it crossed this priest's mind, "hey we're going to Rome, we will need to say Mass, even if only in the parking lot!"), if you were to say Mass on the Street, a la Frs. Chazal & Pfeiffer in Asia 2 years ago. Maybe someone here remembers the city? They had been LOCKED OUT of the church by Fr. Couture, DS of Asia.

As Fr. Chazal said at that time, "This is war."

.

They were not locked out. It is just that Fr. Chazal CHOSE to say Mass on the streets. For your information, Fr. Chazal was staying at the priory. Fr Couture banned him from saying Mass in the church publicly, but allowed him to have his daily private Mass. It was unfortunate that Fr. Chazal chose to have Mass said on the streets instead.

trento · « **Reply #34 on:** September 01, 2014, 04:59:47 AM »

Quote from: stgobnait

and the ladies would have had their mantilla's.. dah dah dah..... question is, does it look as if any preparation went into the mass at all, was it edifying, i don't think so.

I agree with you on this. Other than the priest's gestures, the other elements weren't very edifying and is not a good way to introduce newcomers to the Traditional Mass. When people see a priest wearing the Novus Ordo garments, they would be inclined to say there's hardly any difference with the Novus Ordo.

Viva Cristo Rey · « **Reply #35 on:** September 01, 2014, 07:08:59 AM »

The priest and people need guidance and support. Most NO clergy and people were never taught about the true Catholic faith. They need prayers.
Also there is need for moral theology.

chrstnoel1 · « **Reply #36 on:** September 01, 2014, 09:24:33 AM »

Quote from: trento

Quote from: Neil Obstat
Quote from: eddiearent

Even when the Novus Ordo #### simulate the 62 Missal at St. Peter's they have proper vestments.

You can't tell me St. Peter's doesn't have a maniple or burse.

You have a lot to learn, eddiearent..............

Matthew has it right. It looks like this was planned.

However, I can personally attest that as of about 6 years ago, the vestments and supplies to be found at St. Peter's Basilica available for the use of visiting priests was utterly abominable. Not only did they have nothing but everyday NovusOrdo garb (I wouldn't call them vestments), but they were RAGS, JUNK, and RIDICULOUS. Rainbow colors in tatters, with stains and threadbare, as if the "gαys" had had far too much fun with them; rug-like heavy coarse woven things that wouldn't even pass for a Mexican sarape; goofy one-stripe toga-like sheets with a hole in the middle for someone to put his head through it -- didn't they have something like that for a guillotine?

There was literally nothing of a traditional description to choose from, and the priest was left to fend for himself as best he could, with the meager chasubles that he had brought (carrying all the colors of chasubles and altar linens that you might need would take the luggage of 4 people to haul around). But he was not forbidden to bring in his own equipment, or, should I say, accoutrements? This is WAR, after all.

Had he known in advance he would have been more prepared, but he had thought, "This is St. Peter's, so they'll certainly have a nice selection of vestments and everything."

Surprise, surprise: they did not.

And the priest is well-connected in the SSPX, too, so I have no question but that the word got around. I'm sure he's not the only one who has tried to say a Traditional Mass in the Basilica in the past decade.

So let the word be known, that IF YOU WANT TO OFFER A REAL MASS IN ST PETER'S BASILICA, YOU MUST COME PREPARED WITH EVERYTHING YOU WILL NEED, just as you would, as Centroamerica here said (Surely it crossed this priest's mind, "hey we're going to Rome, we will need to say Mass, even if only in the parking lot!"), if you were to say Mass on the Street, a la Frs. Chazal & Pfeiffer in Asia 2 years ago. Maybe someone here remembers the city? They had been LOCKED OUT of the church by Fr. Couture, DS of Asia.

As Fr. Chazal said at that time, "This is war."

.

They were not locked out. It is just that Fr. Chazal CHOSE to say Mass on the streets. For your information, Fr. Chazal was staying at the priory. Fr Couture banned him from saying Mass in the church publicly, but allowed him to have his daily private Mass. It was unfortunate that Fr. Chazal chose to have Mass said on the streets instead.

Oh Trento, stop this bull-shit. Still trying to defend Fr. Couture? Unless you yourself is Fr. Couture.

When will you people stop lying!

AlligatorDicax · « **Reply #37 on:** September 01, 2014, 02:33:54 PM »

Quote from: poche (Aug 30, 2014, 2:20 am)

[Fr. de Sivry] wore red because that day, [August 9,] was the feast of the Vigil of St Lawrence.

How could I doubt that the above explanation was written by 'poche'?

Ah, yes. The "feast of a vigil"! I'd wonder if that weren't yet another innovation from your Novus Ordo, except that your Novus Ordo doesn't have vigils--at least not in the traditional sense. Not even for Christmas, Easter, Ascension, nor Pentecost. The first one has been reduced to a weekday "of the 4th Week of Advent"; for the latter 2, what would traditionally be vigils have been reduced to mere weekdays of an ordinally numbered "Week of Easter". It's your Novus Ordo that's notorious (among variously leaning traditional Catholics) for its current application of the word vigil to the Saturday-afternoon weekly masses beloved by fans of the Sunday-game-intensive (U.S.) National Football League.

Assuming that I can trust Kenneth G. Bath's Novus Ordo-only liturgical-calendar programming for RomCal.com, August 9 is the "Opt. Mem." of "Teresiae Benedicta of the Cross, V & M", for whom the liturgical color is green.

In my compilation for the calendar of 1960 (from a discarded mid1960s Ordo), which I would assume SSPX relies upon, August 9 is the III-class feast of "S. Ioann M. Vianney, C.", for whom the liturgical color is "alb.", i.e.: white!

But SSPX disagrees: August "9 Our Lady's Saturday", "4cl[ass]", which shows the liturgical color as a surprisingly yellowish off-white, but a shade of white nevertheless. For the patron-saint of priests, it shows August "8: St. John Mary Vianney", 3cl[ass]".[S] 

Lastly, there's Tr@ditio's "Calendar for the Traditional Roman Rite", August "9 Saturday[:] St. John Mary Vianney, C", for whose feast of the double minor class (i.e.: 4th rank), the liturgical color is white. Its calendar for that date does show, as alternatives of distinctly lesser priority, the "Vigil of St. Lawrence" (but see "violet", below), plus what I assume is at most a commemoration of "St. Romanus, M".

Quote from: poche (Aug 30, 2014, 2:20 am)

St Lawrence was a martyr. Red is the color of martyrs.

Indeed it is, but only on their feast days. Even if the date under discussion in the SSPX calendar were primarily assigned to a vigil, I believe that an inspection of any traditional or semitraditional liturgical calendar will show that the liturgical color for any vigil is violet (e.g.: August 14: Vigil of the Assumption)--except for the traditional dual violet-then-white colors on Holy Saturday.

Can any of the former seminarians reading CathInfo point out anything liturgical that I might've overlooked?

-------
Note #: E.g.: <romcal.com/output/2014.html>.

Note [S]: <www.fsspx.org/en/liturgy/the-liturgy/liturgical-calendar/calendar/?month=aug&yr=2014>
(an artistic Web page, but an obnoxiously long Web address, what with the latter containing 3 combined instances of "liturgy" or "liturgical", and 2 instances of "calendar").

Note *: <www.traditio.com/calendar/cal1408.htm>.

poche · « **Reply #38 on:** September 01, 2014, 11:49:48 PM »

Quote from: AlligatorDicax

Quote from: poche (Aug 30, 2014, 2:20 am)
[Fr. de Sivry] wore red because that day, [August 9,] was the feast of the Vigil of St Lawrence.

How could I doubt that the above explanation was written by 'poche'?

Ah, yes. The "feast of a vigil"! I'd wonder if that weren't yet another innovation from your Novus Ordo, except that your Novus Ordo doesn't have vigils--at least not in the traditional sense. Not even for Christmas, Easter, Ascension, nor Pentecost. The first one has been reduced to a weekday "of the 4th Week of Advent"; for the latter 2, what would traditionally be vigils have been reduced to mere weekdays of an ordinally numbered "Week of Easter". It's your Novus Ordo that's notorious (among variously leaning traditional Catholics) for its current application of the word vigil to the Saturday-afternoon weekly masses beloved by fans of the Sunday-game-intensive (U.S.) National Football League.

Assuming that I can trust Kenneth G. Bath's Novus Ordo-only liturgical-calendar programming for RomCal.com, August 9 is the "Opt. Mem." of "Teresiae Benedicta of the Cross, V & M", for whom the liturgical color is green.
 

In my compilation for the calendar of 1960 (from a discarded mid1960s Ordo), which I would assume SSPX relies upon, August 9 is the III-class feast of "S. Ioann M. Vianney, C.", for whom the liturgical color is "alb.", i.e.: white!

But SSPX disagrees: August "9 Our Lady's Saturday", "4cl[ass]", which shows the liturgical color as a surprisingly yellowish off-white, but a shade of white nevertheless. For the patron-saint of priests, it shows August "8: St. John Mary Vianney", 3cl[ass]".[S] 

Lastly, there's Tr@ditio's "Calendar for the Traditional Roman Rite", August "9 Saturday[:] St. John Mary Vianney, C", for whose feast of the double minor class (i.e.: 4th rank), the liturgical color is white. Its calendar for that date does show, as alternatives of distinctly lesser priority, the "Vigil of St. Lawrence" (but see "violet", below), plus what I assume is at most a commemoration of "St. Romanus, M".
 
Quote from: poche (Aug 30, 2014, 2:20 am)
St Lawrence was a martyr. Red is the color of martyrs.

Indeed it is, but only on their feast days. Even if the date under discussion in the SSPX calendar were primarily assigned to a vigil, I believe that an inspection of any traditional or semitraditional liturgical calendar will show that the liturgical color for any vigil is violet (e.g.: August 14: Vigil of the Assumption)--except for the traditional dual violet-then-white colors on Holy Saturday.

Can any of the former seminarians reading CathInfo point out anything liturgical that I might've overlooked?

-------
Note #: E.g.: <romcal.com/output/2014.html>.

Note [S]: <www.fsspx.org/en/liturgy/the-liturgy/liturgical-calendar/calendar/?month=aug&yr=2014>
(an artistic Web page, but an obnoxiously long Web address, what with the latter containing 3 combined instances of "liturgy" or "liturgical", and 2 instances of "calendar").

Note *: <www.traditio.com/calendar/cal1408.htm>.

This isn't an innovation of the Novus Ordo. It is from the Missal of 1962.

trento · « **Reply #39 on:** September 02, 2014, 02:36:37 AM »

Quote from: poche

Quote from: AlligatorDicax
Quote from: poche (Aug 30, 2014, 2:20 am)
[Fr. de Sivry] wore red because that day, [August 9,] was the feast of the Vigil of St Lawrence.

How could I doubt that the above explanation was written by 'poche'?

Ah, yes. The "feast of a vigil"! I'd wonder if that weren't yet another innovation from your Novus Ordo, except that your Novus Ordo doesn't have vigils--at least not in the traditional sense. Not even for Christmas, Easter, Ascension, nor Pentecost. The first one has been reduced to a weekday "of the 4th Week of Advent"; for the latter 2, what would traditionally be vigils have been reduced to mere weekdays of an ordinally numbered "Week of Easter". It's your Novus Ordo that's notorious (among variously leaning traditional Catholics) for its current application of the word vigil to the Saturday-afternoon weekly masses beloved by fans of the Sunday-game-intensive (U.S.) National Football League.

Assuming that I can trust Kenneth G. Bath's Novus Ordo-only liturgical-calendar programming for RomCal.com, August 9 is the "Opt. Mem." of "Teresiae Benedicta of the Cross, V & M", for whom the liturgical color is green.
 

In my compilation for the calendar of 1960 (from a discarded mid1960s Ordo), which I would assume SSPX relies upon, August 9 is the III-class feast of "S. Ioann M. Vianney, C.", for whom the liturgical color is "alb.", i.e.: white!

But SSPX disagrees: August "9 Our Lady's Saturday", "4cl[ass]", which shows the liturgical color as a surprisingly yellowish off-white, but a shade of white nevertheless. For the patron-saint of priests, it shows August "8: St. John Mary Vianney", 3cl[ass]".[S] 

Lastly, there's Tr@ditio's "Calendar for the Traditional Roman Rite", August "9 Saturday[:] St. John Mary Vianney, C", for whose feast of the double minor class (i.e.: 4th rank), the liturgical color is white. Its calendar for that date does show, as alternatives of distinctly lesser priority, the "Vigil of St. Lawrence" (but see "violet", below), plus what I assume is at most a commemoration of "St. Romanus, M".
 
Quote from: poche (Aug 30, 2014, 2:20 am)
St Lawrence was a martyr. Red is the color of martyrs.

Indeed it is, but only on their feast days. Even if the date under discussion in the SSPX calendar were primarily assigned to a vigil, I believe that an inspection of any traditional or semitraditional liturgical calendar will show that the liturgical color for any vigil is violet (e.g.: August 14: Vigil of the Assumption)--except for the traditional dual violet-then-white colors on Holy Saturday.

Can any of the former seminarians reading CathInfo point out anything liturgical that I might've overlooked?

-------
Note #: E.g.: <romcal.com/output/2014.html>.

Note [S]: <www.fsspx.org/en/liturgy/the-liturgy/liturgical-calendar/calendar/?month=aug&yr=2014>
(an artistic Web page, but an obnoxiously long Web address, what with the latter containing 3 combined instances of "liturgy" or "liturgical", and 2 instances of "calendar").

Note *: <www.traditio.com/calendar/cal1408.htm>.

This isn't an innovation of the Novus Ordo. It is from the Missal of 1962.

In the Missal of 1962, the color of vigils are Violet, not Red. We can also be sure that Fr. de Sivry said the Mass of the Blessed Virgin on Saturdays, Salve Sancte Parens, if you watched the video carefully. The colour of the vestment is definitely wrong.

trento · « **Reply #40 on:** September 02, 2014, 02:47:16 AM »

Quote from: chrstnoel1

Oh Trento, stop this bull-####. Still trying to defend Fr. Couture? Unless you yourself is Fr. Couture.

When will you people stop lying!

There were lay witnesses at the priory whom I recalled posting here. I don't have to explain further if you insist that I am lying in defending Fr. Couture. Suits you.

Francisco · « **Reply #41 on:** September 02, 2014, 03:04:33 AM »

Quote from: trento

Quote from: chrstnoel1

Oh Trento, stop this bull-####. Still trying to defend Fr. Couture? Unless you yourself is Fr. Couture.

When will you people stop lying!

There were lay witnesses at the priory whom I recalled posting here. I don't have to explain further if you insist that I am lying in defending Fr. Couture. Suits you.

Trento, Chrstnoel1, here is another video of whose introduction I cannot make much sense of......

http://www.cathinfo.com/catholic.php/Fr-Pfeiffer-THE-SHIP-IS-GOING-DOWN-Aug20th-2014

poche · « **Reply #42 on:** September 03, 2014, 10:24:24 PM »

Quote from: trento

Quote from: poche
Quote from: AlligatorDicax
Quote from: poche (Aug 30, 2014, 2:20 am)
[Fr. de Sivry] wore red because that day, [August 9,] was the feast of the Vigil of St Lawrence.

How could I doubt that the above explanation was written by 'poche'?

Ah, yes. The "feast of a vigil"! I'd wonder if that weren't yet another innovation from your Novus Ordo, except that your Novus Ordo doesn't have vigils--at least not in the traditional sense. Not even for Christmas, Easter, Ascension, nor Pentecost. The first one has been reduced to a weekday "of the 4th Week of Advent"; for the latter 2, what would traditionally be vigils have been reduced to mere weekdays of an ordinally numbered "Week of Easter". It's your Novus Ordo that's notorious (among variously leaning traditional Catholics) for its current application of the word vigil to the Saturday-afternoon weekly masses beloved by fans of the Sunday-game-intensive (U.S.) National Football League.

Assuming that I can trust Kenneth G. Bath's Novus Ordo-only liturgical-calendar programming for RomCal.com, August 9 is the "Opt. Mem." of "Teresiae Benedicta of the Cross, V & M", for whom the liturgical color is green.
 

In my compilation for the calendar of 1960 (from a discarded mid1960s Ordo), which I would assume SSPX relies upon, August 9 is the III-class feast of "S. Ioann M. Vianney, C.", for whom the liturgical color is "alb.", i.e.: white!

But SSPX disagrees: August "9 Our Lady's Saturday", "4cl[ass]", which shows the liturgical color as a surprisingly yellowish off-white, but a shade of white nevertheless. For the patron-saint of priests, it shows August "8: St. John Mary Vianney", 3cl[ass]".[S] 

Lastly, there's Tr@ditio's "Calendar for the Traditional Roman Rite", August "9 Saturday[:] St. John Mary Vianney, C", for whose feast of the double minor class (i.e.: 4th rank), the liturgical color is white. Its calendar for that date does show, as alternatives of distinctly lesser priority, the "Vigil of St. Lawrence" (but see "violet", below), plus what I assume is at most a commemoration of "St. Romanus, M".
 
Quote from: poche (Aug 30, 2014, 2:20 am)
St Lawrence was a martyr. Red is the color of martyrs.

Indeed it is, but only on their feast days. Even if the date under discussion in the SSPX calendar were primarily assigned to a vigil, I believe that an inspection of any traditional or semitraditional liturgical calendar will show that the liturgical color for any vigil is violet (e.g.: August 14: Vigil of the Assumption)--except for the traditional dual violet-then-white colors on Holy Saturday.

Can any of the former seminarians reading CathInfo point out anything liturgical that I might've overlooked?

-------
Note #: E.g.: <romcal.com/output/2014.html>.

Note [S]: <www.fsspx.org/en/liturgy/the-liturgy/liturgical-calendar/calendar/?month=aug&yr=2014>
(an artistic Web page, but an obnoxiously long Web address, what with the latter containing 3 combined instances of "liturgy" or "liturgical", and 2 instances of "calendar").

Note *: <www.traditio.com/calendar/cal1408.htm>.

This isn't an innovation of the Novus Ordo. It is from the Missal of 1962.

In the Missal of 1962, the color of vigils are Violet, not Red. We can also be sure that Fr. de Sivry said the Mass of the Blessed Virgin on Saturdays, Salve Sancte Parens, if you watched the video carefully. The colour of the vestment is definitely wrong.

the purple vestments were probably stashed away in some kind of storage and very difficult to get. In that case the next best would have been red.

peterp · « **Reply #43 on:** September 05, 2014, 08:52:27 PM »

This is all silly. Has anyone here ever been on a Society pilgrimage?

Ever assisted at a pilgrimage Mass with the wrong color vestments, servers without a cassock and surplice, or on the roof-top of a hotel, or using the hotel bar as an altar, or be kickout of the church that had been reserved, or having to make do with a rock as an altar outdoorss? No. You all have no idea how often the Society priests have to improvise on such occasions.

It is highly likely that the scenario is: they asked for permission, were granted permission, and had to rush, using was available to them at the time, before the authorities changed their mind.

Skunkwurxsspx · « **Reply #44 on:** September 05, 2014, 10:27:32 PM »

Quote from: peterp

This is all silly. Has anyone here ever been on a Society pilgrimage?

Ever assisted at a pilgrimage Mass with the wrong color vestments, servers without a cassock and surplice, or on the roof-top of a hotel, or using the hotel bar as an altar, or be kickout of the church that had been reserved, or having to make do with a rock as an altar outdoorss? No. You all have no idea how often the Society priests have to improvise on such occasions.

It is highly likely that the scenario is: they asked for permission, were granted permission, and had to rush, using was available to them at the time, before the authorities changed their mind.

When you have to go through this much trouble just to try to mask what is an obvious case of slippage toward the Novus Ordo "gradualism" where the true norm is hidden behind the language of "exceptions," why bother? It's just too much mental gymnastics. Been there, done that, bud. Nice try, though. Spoken like a true PXer. Menzingen could use a few more like you.