Catholic Info

Traditional Catholic Faith => SSPX Resistance News => Topic started by: Last Tradhican on January 03, 2018, 03:05:21 PM

Title: SSPX Obscuring The Feast of The Circuмcision of Our Lord ?
Post by: Last Tradhican on January 03, 2018, 03:05:21 PM
From another thread someone posted this about the Fraternity of St. Peter:


Quote
The FSSP has this feast day listed as the Solemnity of Mary, Mother of God and Octave of the Nativity... there is no mention whatsoever about the Feast of the Circuмcision.

Not only that but their website says that since this feast falls on a Monday, it is not a holy day of obligation.
The SSPX has not gone so far as to say "since this feast falls on a Monday, it is not a holy day of obligation", as the Fraternity of St. Peter has, however, since I think 2005, the SSPX in their calendars  say for January 1st Holy Day of Obligation, The Octave Day of the Nativity (I have calendars for 2000-2004 and 2010-2014). There is no mention of the Circuмcision since 2005 in the SSPX calendars.

Prior to 2005, the SSPX Calendars ALWAYS said for January 1st -  Holy Day of Obligation, The Circuмcision of Our Lord.

There was a change in 2005, why the change? It looks like the Novus Ordo church wants to program people to forget the Circuмcision, and the SSPX is going along with the program since 2005.
Title: Re: SSPX Obscuring The Feast of The Circuмcision of Our Lord ?
Post by: Felicitas on January 03, 2018, 03:27:43 PM
Yes, why the change? And is that about when Fr Novak was removed as editor? 
Title: Re: SSPX Obscuring The Feast of The Circuмcision of Our Lord ?
Post by: JezusDeKoning on January 03, 2018, 03:32:20 PM
On divinumofficium - the website for the Mass, which has all versions from 1570, it says: "Octave Day of the Nativity". "Circuмcision of the Lord" comes from the Gospel reading.
Title: Re: SSPX Obscuring The Feast of The Circuмcision of Our Lord ?
Post by: 2Vermont on January 03, 2018, 03:47:26 PM
2005?  That's the same year when they no longer doubted the validity of the New Rite of Episcopal Consecration.  Why?  Because that was the year so-called "traditional" Ratzinger was elected to the papacy.

I don't doubt that they change in their calendars are directly related to the election of Ratzinger.
Title: Re: SSPX Obscuring The Feast of The Circuмcision of Our Lord ?
Post by: Last Tradhican on January 03, 2018, 04:08:49 PM
On divinumofficium - the website for the Mass, which has all versions from 1570, it says: "Octave Day of the Nativity". "Circuмcision of the Lord" comes from the Gospel reading.
Which has all versions of what?

All of my old missals say  Circuмcision of the Lord. Guerranger in 1800's says Circuмcision of the Lord. Yes, it is also the 8 day of Christmas, the   "Octave Day of the Nativity", but that is not the reason for the Holy Day of Obligation, just like the 12th day of Christmas is known as the Epiphany.
Title: Re: SSPX Obscuring The Feast of The Circuмcision of Our Lord ?
Post by: Last Tradhican on January 03, 2018, 04:12:45 PM
Written in the 1800's
http://www.liturgialatina.org/lityear/ (http://www.liturgialatina.org/lityear/)

THE LITURGICAL YEAR

BY THE VERY REV. DOM PROSPER GUÉRANGER, ABBOT OF SOLESMES
JANUARY 1
 THE CIRcuмCISION OF OUR LORD AND OCTAVE OF CHRISTMAS DAY



Our new-born King and Saviour is eight days old to-day; the Star that guides the Magi is advancing towards Bethlehem, and five days hence will be standing over the Stable where our Jesus is being nursed by his Mother. To-day the Son of Man is to be circuмcised; this first sacrifice of his innocent Flesh must honour the eighth day of his mortal life. To-day also a Name is to be given him: the Name will be Jesus, and it means Saviour. So that mysteries abound on this day: let us not pass one of them over, but honour them with all possible devotion and love.


But this day is not exclusively devoted to the Circuмcision of Jesus. The mystery of this Circuмcision forms part of that other great mystery, the Incarnation and Infancy of our Saviour - a mystery on which the Church fixes her heart not only during this Octave, but during the whole forty days of Christmastide. Then, as regards our Lord’s receiving the Name of Jesus, a special Feast, which we shall soon be keeping, is set apart in honour of it. There is another object that shares the love and devotion of the Faithful on this great Solemnity. This object is Mary, the Mother of God. The Church celebrates to-day the august prerogative of this divine Maternity which was conferred on a mere creature, and made her the co-operatrix with Jesus in the great work of man’s salvation.


The holy Church of Rome used formerly to say two Masses on the first of January; one was for the Octave of Christmas Day, the other was in honour of Mary. She now unites the two intentions in one Sacrifice, in the same manner as, in the rest of this Day’s Office, she unites together the acts of her adoration of the Son, and the expressions of her admiration for and confidence in the Mother.


The Greek Church does not wait for this eighth day, in order to pay her tribute of homage to her who has given us our Emmanuel. She consecrates to Mary the first day after Christmas, that is December 26, and calls it the Synaxis of the Mother of God, making the two days one continued Feast. She is thus obliged to defer the Feast of St Stephen to December 27.


But it is to-day that we, the children of the Roman Church, must pour forth all the love of our hearts for the Virgin-Mother, and rejoice with her in the exceeding happiness she feels at having given birth to her and our Lord. During Advent we contemplated her as pregnant with the world’s salvation; we proclaimed the glory of that Ark of the New Covenant, whose chaste womb was the earthly paradise chosen by the King of Ages for his dwelling-place. Now she has brought him forth, the Infant-God; she adores him, him who is her Son. She has the right to call him her Child; and he, God as he is, calls her in strictest truth his Mother.


Let us not be surprised, therefore, at the enthusiasm and profound respect wherewith the Church extols the Blessed Virgin and her prerogatives. Let us on the contrary be convinced that all the praise the Church can give her, and all the devotion she can ever bear towards her, are far below what is due to her as Mother of the Incarnate God. No mortal will ever be able to describe, or even comprehend, how great a glory accrues to her from this sublime dignity. For, as the glory of Mary comes from her being the Mother of God, one would have first to comprehend God himself in order to measure the greatness of her dignity. It is to God that Mary gave our human nature; it is God whom she had as her Child; it is God who gloried in rendering himself, inasmuch as he is Man, subject to her: hence, the true value of such a dignity, possessed by a mere creature, can only be appreciated in proportion to our knowledge of the sovereign perfections of the great God, who thus deigns to make himself dependent upon that favoured creature. Let us therefore bow down in deepest adoration before the Majesty of our God; let us therefore acknowledge that we cannot respect as it deserves the extraordinary dignity of her whom he chose for his Mother.


The same sublime Mystery overpowers the mind from another point of view: what were the feelings of such a Mother towards such a Son? The Child she holds in her arms and presses to her heart is the Fruit of her virginal womb, and she loves him as her own; she loves him because she is his Mother, and a Mother loves her Child as herself, nay, more than herself: but when she thinks upon the infinite majesty of him who has thus given himself to her to be the object of her love and her fond caresses, she trembles in her humility, and her soul has to turn, in order to bear up against the overwhelming truth, to the other thought of the nine months she held this Babe in her womb, and of the filial smile he gave her when her eyes first met his. These two deep-rooted feelings - of a creature that adores, and of a Mother that loves - are in Mary’s heart. To be Mother of God implies all this: and may we not well say that no pure creature could be exalted more than she? and that in order to comprehend her dignity, we should first have to comprehend God himself? and that only God’s infinite wisdom could plan such a work, and only his infinite power accomplish it?


A Mother of God! It is the mystery whose fulfilment the world, without knowing it, was awaiting for four thousand years. It is the work which, in God’s eyes, was incomparably greater than that of the creation of a million new worlds, for such a creation would cost him nothing; he has but to speak, and all whatsoever he wills is made. But that a creature should become Mother of God, he has had not only to suspend the laws of nature by making a Virgin Mother, but also to put himself in a state of dependence upon the happy creature he chose for his Mother. He had to give her rights over himself, and contract the obligation of certain duties towards her. He had to make her his Mother, and himself her Son.


It follows from all this, that the blessings of the Incarnation, for which we are indebted to the love where with the Divine Word loved us, may and ought to be referred, though in an inferior degree, to Mary herself. If she be the Mother of God, it is because she consented to it, for God vouchsafed not only to ask her consent, but moreover to make the coming of his Son into this world depend upon her giving it. As this his Son, the Eternal Word, spoke his FIAT over chaos, and the answer to his word was creation; so did Mary use the same word FIAT: let it be done unto me [St Luke i. 38], she said. God heard her word, and immediately the Son of God descended into her virginal womb. After God, then, it is to Mary, his ever Blessed Mother, that we are indebted for our Emmanuel.


The divine plan for the world’s salvation included the existence of a Mother of God: and as heresy sought to deny the mystery of the Incarnation, it equally sought to deny the glorious prerogative of Mary. Nestorius asserted that Jesus was only man; Mary consequently was not Mother of God, but merely Mother of a Man called Jesus. This impious doctrine roused the indignation of the Catholic world. The East and West united in proclaiming that Jesus was God and Man, in unity of Person; and that Mary, being his Mother, was, in strict truth, Mother of God’ [Deipara, Theotókos, are the respective Latin and Greek terms.] This victory over Nestorianism was won at the Council of Ephesus. It was hailed by the Christians of those times with an enthusiasm of faith which not only proved the tender love they had for the Mother of Jesus, but was sure to result in the setting up of some solemn trophy that would perpetuate the memory of the victory. It was then that the pious custom began, in both the Greek and Latin Churches, of uniting during Christmas the veneration due to the Mother with the supreme worship given to the Son. The day assigned for the united commemoration varied in the several countries, but the sentiment of religion which suggested the Feast was one and the same throughout the entire Church.


The holy Pope Xystus III ordered an immense mosaic to be worked into the chancel-arch of the Church of St Mary Major, in Rome, as a monument to the holy Mother of God. The mosaic still exists, bearing testimony as to what was the faith held in the fifth century. It represents the various scriptural types of our Lady, and the inscription of the holy Pontiff is still legible in its bold letters: XYSTUS EPISCOPUS PLEBI DEI (Xystus Bishop to the people of God): for the Saint had dedicated to the faithful this his offering to Mary, the Mother of God.


Special chants were also composed at Rome for the celebration of the great mystery of the Word made Man through Mary. Sublime Responsories and Antiphons, accompanied by appropriate music, were written to serve the Church and her children as the expression of their faith, and they are the ones we now use. The Greek Church makes use of some of these very Antiphons for the Christmas Solemnity; so that with regard to the mystery of the Incarnation there is not only unity of faith, there is also oneness of devotional sentiment
Title: Re: SSPX Obscuring The Feast of The Circuмcision of Our Lord ?
Post by: Last Tradhican on January 03, 2018, 04:16:51 PM
2005?  That's the same year when they no longer doubted the validity of the New Rite of Episcopal Consecration.  Why?  Because that was the year so-called "traditional" Ratzinger was elected to the papacy. I don't doubt that they change in their calendars are directly related to the election of Ratzinger.
True, I remember where I was when I read that Angelus cover. Good point.

When I saw the article, I said to my wife, that is the end of the SSPX as we knew it. 
Title: Re: SSPX Obscuring The Feast of The Circuмcision of Our Lord ?
Post by: Last Tradhican on January 03, 2018, 04:46:15 PM
From - "The Season of the Nativity" by Sybil MacBeth (Novus Ordo book):

In the General Roman calendar, the 1 January feast, which from 1568 to 1960 was called "The Circuмcision of the Lord and the Octave of the Nativity", is now named the Solemnity of Mary, Mother of God and Octave Day of the of the Nativity of the Lord.

From the Novus Ordo  church - "Universal Norms on the Liturgical Year and the Calendar":

Pope John XXIII 1960 Rubrical and calendar revision called 1 January simply the Octave of the Nativity. (This 1960 calendar was incorporated into the 1962 Roman Missal, whose continued use is authorized by the motu proprio Summorum Pontificuм)  The 1969 revision states: "1 January, the Octave Day of the Nativity of the Lord, is the Solemnity of Mary, the Holy Mother of God  and also the commemoration of the conferral of the Most Holy Name of Jesus. 
Title: Re: SSPX Obscuring The Feast of The Circuмcision of Our Lord ?
Post by: Pilar on January 04, 2018, 02:44:37 AM
From another thread someone posted this about the Fraternity of St. Peter:

The SSPX has not gone so far as to say "since this feast falls on a Monday, it is not a holy day of obligation", as the Fraternity of St. Peter has, however, since I think 2005, the SSPX in their calendars  say for January 1st Holy Day of Obligation, The Octave Day of the Nativity (I have calendars for 2000-2004 and 2010-2014). There is no mention of the Circuмcision since 2005 in the SSPX calendars.

Prior to 2005, the SSPX Calendars ALWAYS said for January 1st -  Holy Day of Obligation, The Circuмcision of Our Lord.

There was a change in 2005, why the change? It looks like the Novus Ordo church wants to program people to forget the Circuмcision, and the SSPX is going along with the program since 2005.

https://1962ordo.today/day/octave-day-nativity-lord/
The online ordo notes that it is a Holy Day of Obligation and also that it is called the Feast of the Circuмcision of Our Lord. My SSPX 2018 Calendar calls it a Holy Day of Obligation and Octave of the Nativity, which it is. There is no mention of the Solemnity of Our Lady as the novus ordo calls it.
Title: Re: SSPX Obscuring The Feast of The Circuмcision of Our Lord ?
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on January 04, 2018, 04:57:12 AM
Mater Ecclesiae Catholic Church in Berlin , NJ had it as feast of the Circuмcision of Our Lord and Holy Day of Obligation.  And they are Diocesan. 

The deal has been made long time ago.   They are slowly intergrating them in.  I know because I  born and raised novus ordo. I see the same strategies that they use to do things.  it is up to the laity to correct these errors.   

Title: Re: SSPX Obscuring The Feast of The Circuмcision of Our Lord ?
Post by: Viva Cristo Rey on January 04, 2018, 05:05:05 AM
From what I hear is that the new calendar will have the new saints. 
The Church is being attacked from within.  Vatican II has become a religion in itself.  The male demons posing as priests are coming out of the closet with their demon boyfriends while the feminist baby boomers give standing ovation.  Then they wonder why the pews are empty.  

Title: Re: SSPX Obscuring The Feast of The Circuмcision of Our Lord ?
Post by: Last Tradhican on January 04, 2018, 07:56:39 AM
From - "The Season of the Nativity" by Sybil MacBeth (Novus Ordo book):

In the General Roman calendar, the 1 January feast, which from 1568 to 1960 was called "The Circuмcision of the Lord and the Octave of the Nativity", is now named the Solemnity of Mary, Mother of God and Octave Day of the of the Nativity of the Lord.

From the Novus Ordo  church - "Universal Norms on the Liturgical Year and the Calendar":

Pope John XXIII 1960 Rubrical and calendar revision called 1 January simply the Octave of the Nativity. (This 1960 calendar was incorporated into the 1962 Roman Missal, whose continued use is authorized by the motu proprio Summorum Pontificuм) The 1969 revision states: "1 January, the Octave Day of the Nativity of the Lord, is the Solemnity of Mary, the Holy Mother of God and also the commemoration of the conferral of the Most Holy Name of Jesus.
Step by step to the elimination of the Feast of the Circuмcision of Our Lord:

1) Pope John XXIII 1960 Rubrical and calendar revision called 1 January simply the Octave of the Nativity.

2) The 1969 revision states: "1 January, the Octave Day of the Nativity of the Lord, is the Solemnity of Mary, the Holy Mother of God and also the commemoration of the conferral of the Most Holy Name of Jesus.

I believe the final goal is the removal of the obligation to go to mass.
Title: Re: SSPX Obscuring The Feast of The Circuмcision of Our Lord ?
Post by: Bilbo on January 04, 2018, 08:24:18 AM
The importance of the feast of the Circuмcision is that the holy family subjected themselves to mosaic law and this is the first time that Christ shed a drop of blood for the human race. These two points are being covered over by many so called "traditional" groups.
Title: Re: SSPX Obscuring The Feast of The Circuмcision of Our Lord ?
Post by: Matto on January 04, 2018, 09:13:58 AM
For the last two years or so, I don't remember if it had happened before that, this gets argued about when the new SSPX calendar comes out. The first thing people do is look at January first on the new calendar and see if it says the Circuмcision or the Octave of the Nativity. These past two years it has said the Octave and people say oh look they fear the Jews and are modernists and they show it to the priest and say the Calendar is wrong and the priest tries to defend the calendar. I think it is funny even though I do think it would be better if it said the Circuмcision.
Title: Re: SSPX Obscuring The Feast of The Circuмcision of Our Lord ?
Post by: Ladislaus on January 04, 2018, 09:17:44 AM
The importance of the feast of the Circuмcision is that the holy family subjected themselves to mosaic law and this is the first time that Christ shed a drop of blood for the human race. These two points are being covered over by many so called "traditional" groups.

While the Feast of the Circuмcision is very important, the reason it's a Holy Day is because of its landing on January 1 and the Church's desire to sanctify the secular calendar ... offsetting the debauchery that usually ushers in the new year.  Why not the Baptism of Our Lord or the Transfiguration being Holy Days of Obligation?
Title: Re: SSPX Obscuring The Feast of The Circuмcision of Our Lord ?
Post by: B from A on January 04, 2018, 09:50:31 AM
There was a change in 2005, why the change? It looks like the Novus Ordo church wants to program people to forget the Circuмcision, and the SSPX is going along with the program since 2005.
Yes, why the change? And is that about when Fr Novak was removed as editor?
1 Jan 2005 - Angelus calendar says "The Circuмcision of Our Lord"
19 April 2005 - Pope Benedict XVI elected
1 Jan 2006 - Angelus calendar says "The Circuмcision of Our Lord"
August 2007 - Fr. Markus Heggenberger replaced Fr. K. Novak as the editor at Angelus Press
1 Jan 2008 - Angelus calendar says "Octave Day of the Nativity"  (and continues to say this in the next ~4 years)


I don't know what the calendar said in January 2007, nor after 2012.


Title: Re: SSPX Obscuring The Feast of The Circuмcision of Our Lord ?
Post by: Geremia on January 04, 2018, 10:59:38 AM
I don't like how the '62 calendar lacks the octave days, e.g., that of Sts. Stephan, John, et al.
Title: Re: SSPX Obscuring The Feast of The Circuмcision of Our Lord ?
Post by: Incredulous on January 04, 2018, 07:03:10 PM
True, I remember where I was when I read that Angelus cover. Good point.

When I saw the article, I said to my wife, that is the end of the SSPX as we knew it.

Very insightful of you at the time.

I recall seeing the article, but I thought it was in 2008?
The SSPX spent two issues of the Angelus to make their newChurch case.

I thought something similar about an SSPX Conciliar sell-out at the time, but went into denial.
Then in 2009, Max Krah helped orchestrate Bp. Williamson's international h0Ɩ0h0αx denial scandal.

We've been in the neo-Trad Twilight Zone ever since.
Title: Re: SSPX Obscuring The Feast of The Circuмcision of Our Lord ?
Post by: Last Tradhican on January 05, 2018, 08:44:28 AM
1 Jan 2005 - Angelus calendar says "The Circuмcision of Our Lord"
19 April 2005 - Pope Benedict XVI elected
1 Jan 2006 - Angelus calendar says "The Circuмcision of Our Lord"
August 2007 - Fr. Markus Heggenberger replaced Fr. K. Novak as the editor at Angelus Press
1 Jan 2008 - Angelus calendar says "Octave Day of the Nativity"  (and continues to say this in the next ~4 years)


I don't know what the calendar said in January 2007, nor after 2012.
I found my old SSPX calendars, I have 2000-2006, 2008-2014 and they corroborate what you wrote above. Another interesting change was that in 2008 he also added the Novus Ordo fasting rules on the calendar, like letting people know that the old fasting rules are optional. 
Title: Re: SSPX Obscuring The Feast of The Circuмcision of Our Lord ?
Post by: 2Vermont on January 05, 2018, 08:47:37 AM
I found my old SSPX calendars, I have 2000-2006, 2008-2014 and they corroborate what you wrote above. Another interesting change was that in 2008 he also added the Novus Ordo fasting rules on the calendar, like letting people know that the old fasting rules are optional.
It makes sense to me though.  If they believe that the Novus Ordo popes are true popes shouldn't they follow the Novus Ordo calendar and fasting rules?
Title: Re: SSPX Obscuring The Feast of The Circuмcision of Our Lord ?
Post by: Last Tradhican on January 05, 2018, 08:52:21 AM
While the Feast of the Circuмcision is very important, the reason it's a Holy Day is because of its landing on January 1 and the Church's desire to sanctify the secular calendar ... offsetting the debauchery that usually ushers in the new year.  
That is an old canard of the world, they say the same about Eastern and Christmas.

In Mary of Agreda's "City of God", our Lady tells Mary of Agreda that our Lord's three fold submission to the Circuмcision was in and of itself sufficient to satisfy for the redemption of man.

That is why the Feast of the Circuмcision is a Holy Day of Obligation.
Title: Re: SSPX Obscuring The Feast of The Circuмcision of Our Lord ?
Post by: Neil Obstat on January 05, 2018, 07:50:19 PM

Quote from: B from A on Yesterday at 07:50:31 AM (https://www.cathinfo.com/sspx-resistance-news/sspx-obscuring-the-feast-of-the-circuмcision-of-our-lord/msg587528/#msg587528)
Quote
1 Jan 2005 - Angelus calendar says "The Circuмcision of Our Lord" 
19 April 2005 - Pope Benedict XVI elected 
1 Jan 2006 - Angelus calendar says "The Circuмcision of Our Lord" 
August 2007 - Fr. Markus Heggenberger replaced Fr. K. Novak as the editor at Angelus Press
1 Jan 2008 - Angelus calendar says "Octave Day of the Nativity"  (and continues to say this in the next ~4 years) 


I don't know what the calendar said in January 2007, nor after 2012. 

I found my old SSPX calendars, I have 2000-2006, 2008-2014 and they corroborate what you wrote above. Another interesting change was that in 2008 he also added the Novus Ordo fasting rules on the calendar, like letting people know that the old fasting rules are optional.

.
Good for you, for keeping the old calendars, Last Tradhican, and thanks for posting this observation!
.
When someone goes on record by printing a book or an article or issuing calendars, it's a hard copy that can be looked at years later.
.
We rely on the CI archives for keeping all our years of posts intact, but that's still just an electronic facsimile.
.
Like the Dead Sea Scrolls, old copies of print editions you can hold in your hand are impossible to deny when inconvenient.
.
Quote
In Mary of Agreda's "City of God", our Lady tells Mary of Agreda that our Lord's three fold submission to the Circuмcision was in and of itself sufficient to satisfy for the redemption of man.

That is why the Feast of the Circuмcision is a Holy Day of Obligation.
.
It wasn't this year but in a previous year I heard a priest give a sermon on the Feast of the Circuмcision where he explained that this first shedding of the Precious Blood of Our Lord was sufficient to redeem the entire human race, since Our Lord's Blood is of infinite value and the smallest part of it, even less than a drop, has the same infinite value in the eyes of God. This is the reason for it being a Holy Day of Obligation. 
.
"The Mother of God" is a very important title, and not to be diminished, however, it does not warrant a Holy Day of Obligation. So it would seem the Novus Ordo plan is to eventually eliminate that Obligation date in this way. I've never heard anyone claim the Church has any intention of "sanctifying the secular calendar" by making New Year's Day a Holy Day of Obligation. 
.
Notice how the "secular calendar" seems to promote debauchery on vigils of holy days: October 31st (vigil of All Saints'), Christmas Eve (ever heard of a Christmas Eve party?), New Years' Eve. All they're missing is Easter Eve, Ascension Thursday Eve, Assumption Eve and St. Patrick's Eve -- well, I guess the Irish bars already have that one. In the USA we have "December 7th, 1941, a day that will live in infamy..." (Vigil of the Immaculate Conception -- Fast and Abstinence -- unless it falls on Sunday), and February 2nd, Freemason Groundhog Day (Purification of Mary and Candlemas, end of Christmas season).
.
We already have the Feasts of the Assumption and the Immaculate Conception, the beginning and the end as it were encompassing the entire life of the Blessed Virgin. The next thing in line would be the Annunciation (March 25th) but that's not a Holy Day, nor is the birthday of Our Lady (Sept. 8th), nor the Visitation (?) nor the Purification of Mary (Feb. 2nd).
.
In other words, the Crucifixion and Death of Our Lord were not necessary in that sense, as Our Lord had already shed his blood in the Circuмcision. However, we are not given to know all the particulars and reasons of God, only that His divine will was for Our Lord to suffer and die for our redemption.
.