Send CathInfo's owner Matthew a gift from his Amazon wish list:
https://www.amazon.com/hz/wishlist/ls/25M2B8RERL1UO

Author Topic: SSPX Moving Toward Accepting Conciliar "Saints?"  (Read 3251 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline SeanJohnson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 15064
  • Reputation: +9980/-3161
  • Gender: Male
SSPX Moving Toward Accepting Conciliar "Saints?"
« on: July 13, 2019, 03:06:30 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • In this current SSPX.org announcement, the SSPX refers to Maria Teresa Gonzalez Quevedo as "Venerable."

    https://sspx.org/en/news-events/calendar/ven-teresita-quevedo-girls%E2%80%99-camp-45049

    Problem: That title was given to her in 1983 by JPII.

    Is the SSPX incrementally moving towards an acceptance of conciliar saints?

    Of course they are: One cannot be accepted by the conciliar church while rejecting its "saints" (that would be resistance, you see, and as Fr. Cottier explained upon his conquest of Campos, "What is important is that there no longer be resistance in their hearts.").

    But what does it mean to be considered venerable?

    "In the Catholic Church, after a deceased Catholic has been declared a Servant of God by a bishop and proposed for beatification by the Pope, such a servant of God may next be declared venerable ("heroic in virtue") during the investigation and process leading to possible canonization as a saint."
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Venerable

    But has not the SSPX of old expressed serious reservations on this new conciliar concept of "heroic virtue?"

    See this 2011 article from Fr. Gleize (SSPX) explaining new and redefined concept of "heroic virtue" (scroll down to "Third Difficulty: Heroic Virtue):

    http://sspx.org/en/beatification-and-canonization-vatican-ii-3

    Little by little, the SSPX is moving from integral Catholicism to integral conciliarism.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline Struthio

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1650
    • Reputation: +453/-366
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX Moving Toward Accepting Conciliar "Saints?"
    « Reply #1 on: July 13, 2019, 03:44:30 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Their mass is the "mass of Saint John XXIII." today.
    Men are not bound, or able to read hearts; but when they see that someone is a heretic by his external works, they judge him to be a heretic pure and simple ... Jerome points this out. (St. Robert Bellarmine)


    Offline JezusDeKoning

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2940
    • Reputation: +1090/-2220
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX Moving Toward Accepting Conciliar "Saints?"
    « Reply #2 on: July 13, 2019, 04:56:15 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!1
  • Their mass is the "mass of Saint John XXIII." today.
    I attend an SSPX chapel that uses the 1962 Missal and said Missal IS the Latin Mass. What makes you think otherwise?
    Remember O most gracious Virgin Mary...

    Offline Your Friend Colin

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 516
    • Reputation: +241/-106
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX Moving Toward Accepting Conciliar "Saints?"
    « Reply #3 on: July 13, 2019, 05:33:01 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • I attend an SSPX chapel that uses the 1962 Missal and said Missal IS the Latin Mass. What makes you think otherwise?
    The 1962 Missal was a revision of John XXIII

    Offline Town Crier

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 94
    • Reputation: +53/-31
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX Moving Toward Accepting Conciliar "Saints?"
    « Reply #4 on: July 13, 2019, 10:33:18 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • The 1962 Missal was a revision of John XXIII  :applause:
    "beautiful stained-glass windows which will bring the catechism of the church to life.":SSPX St Mary's KA. Window as they see fit Fund


    Offline Viva Cristo Rey

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 16440
    • Reputation: +4863/-1803
    • Gender: Female
    Re: SSPX Moving Toward Accepting Conciliar "Saints?"
    « Reply #5 on: July 14, 2019, 07:02:15 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • What are the differences between the 1962 Latin Mass and the Mass before that?
    May God bless you and keep you

    Offline Your Friend Colin

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 516
    • Reputation: +241/-106
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX Moving Toward Accepting Conciliar "Saints?"
    « Reply #6 on: July 14, 2019, 07:29:02 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • What are the differences between the 1962 Latin Mass and the Mass before that?
    Holy Week was destroyed by Bugnini under Pius XII in 1955. 
    John XXIII inserted St. Joseph in to the Canon, removed the second Confiteor and some other changes I think. Someone else knows, I’m sure.

    Offline forlorn

    • Sr. Member
    • ****
    • Posts: 2449
    • Reputation: +964/-1098
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX Moving Toward Accepting Conciliar "Saints?"
    « Reply #7 on: July 14, 2019, 07:50:05 PM »
  • Thanks!2
  • No Thanks!2
  • Canonisations are infallible. Still not sure how you can call someone a true Pope but reject their canonisations. 


    Offline Floscarmeli

    • Newbie
    • *
    • Posts: 15
    • Reputation: +11/-2
    • Gender: Female
    Re: SSPX Moving Toward Accepting Conciliar "Saints?"
    « Reply #8 on: July 14, 2019, 10:33:53 PM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!2
  • Exactly! Well said.

    Offline poche

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 16730
    • Reputation: +1218/-4688
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX Moving Toward Accepting Conciliar "Saints?"
    « Reply #9 on: July 15, 2019, 04:50:53 AM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!0
  • Even today most of the 'conciliar' saints never attended the Novus Ordo.  

    Offline 2Vermont

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 10055
    • Reputation: +5252/-916
    • Gender: Female
    Re: SSPX Moving Toward Accepting Conciliar "Saints?"
    « Reply #10 on: July 15, 2019, 06:56:07 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Speaking of canonizations, I just saw a post on SuscipeDomine where a poster was suggesting opening the cause of canonization for Archbishop Lefebrve....by Rome.   :facepalm:
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)


    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 15064
    • Reputation: +9980/-3161
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX Moving Toward Accepting Conciliar "Saints?"
    « Reply #11 on: July 15, 2019, 07:22:43 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Speaking of canonizations, I just saw a post on SuscipeDomine where a poster was suggesting opening the cause of canonization for Archbishop Lefebrve....by Rome.   :facepalm:

    Did they provide any links regarding the alleged Vatican initiative?

    The notion of “excommunicated” saints in the conciliar church apparently does not present an obstacle.

    I can easily imagine the “canonization” speech submitted to Francis by a Dutch branding company:
    “He was a man of the Church...he wuved the pweesthood...”
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline 2Vermont

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 10055
    • Reputation: +5252/-916
    • Gender: Female
    Re: SSPX Moving Toward Accepting Conciliar "Saints?"
    « Reply #12 on: July 15, 2019, 07:26:26 AM »
  • Thanks!0
  • No Thanks!0
  • Did they provide any links regarding the alleged Vatican initiative?

    The notion of “excommunicated” saints in the conciliar church apparently does not present an obstacle.

    I can easily imagine the “canonization” speech submitted to Francis by a Dutch branding company:
    “He was a man of the Church...he wuved the pweesthood...”

    This was presented by the SD poster.  It appears he is hoping to get Rome to do this in the future.
    For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders, insomuch as to deceive (if possible) even the elect. (Matthew 24:24)

    Offline ByzCat3000

    • Full Member
    • ***
    • Posts: 1889
    • Reputation: +500/-141
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX Moving Toward Accepting Conciliar "Saints?"
    « Reply #13 on: July 15, 2019, 08:23:39 PM »
  • Thanks!1
  • No Thanks!2
  • Did they provide any links regarding the alleged Vatican initiative?

    The notion of “excommunicated” saints in the conciliar church apparently does not present an obstacle.

    I can easily imagine the “canonization” speech submitted to Francis by a Dutch branding company:
    “He was a man of the Church...he wuved the pweesthood...”
    Didn't St Joan of Arc get  excommunicated, and then canonized before Vatican II?

    Offline SeanJohnson

    • Hero Member
    • *****
    • Posts: 15064
    • Reputation: +9980/-3161
    • Gender: Male
    Re: SSPX Moving Toward Accepting Conciliar "Saints?"
    « Reply #14 on: July 15, 2019, 08:44:42 PM »
  • Thanks!5
  • No Thanks!3
  • Didn't St Joan of Arc get  excommunicated, and then canonized before Vatican II?
    Son, your time will be much better spent pestering someone more on your level.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."