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Author Topic: SSPX mod - We cant have rampant dissent about the Pope  (Read 8796 times)

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Offline JPaul

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SSPX mod - We cant have rampant dissent about the Pope
« Reply #30 on: July 17, 2015, 09:13:37 PM »
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  • The whole of the Western world is as was, Wiemar Germany in 1930, a picture of Sodom and Gomorrah, a window into the hopelessness of hell.

    Quote
    And the Lord will reward me according to my justice; and will repay me according to the cleanness of my hands: Because I have kept the ways of the Lord; and have not done wickedly against my God. For till his judgments are in my sight: and his justices I have not put away from me.  And I shall be spotless with him: and shall keep myself from my iniquity.  And the Lord will reward me according to my justice; and according to the cleanness of my hands before his eyes.

     With the holy, thou wilt be holy; and with the innocent man thou wilt be innocent.  And with the elect thou wilt be elect: and with the perverse thou wilt be perverted.


    Offline Columba

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    SSPX mod - We cant have rampant dissent about the Pope
    « Reply #31 on: July 18, 2015, 05:00:23 AM »
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  • Quote from: Matthew
    And how can you criticize the entire body of Trad-dom, from the first to the last?

    If one citizen sees over the city walls the dust of an approaching army that is too far away for anyone else to see, should he be silent? No.

    I believe I see that the enemy has successfully deployed a subtle strategy of demoralization against us. Even if nobody else sees this, I will speak out. The enemy has deep knowledge concerning subtleties of the mind, heart, and spirit that increasingly superficial generations have now long forgotten. This leaves us defenseless against even the most simplistic of deceptions for which our ancestors never could have fallen.

    I myself and all trads I know have been deeply imbued with liberalism since before we came out of the womb. This weeds in this garden are like a thick forest of trees with deep roots. The only solution is a wholesale replacement of modern sensibilities with the mindset of pre-liberal civilizations.

    For instance, we have to varying degrees swallowed the wholly fraudulent principles of democracy and equality such that we are incapable of forming effective organizations except for those that are religious. Yes, we retain a remnant of Catholic traditional hierarchy and aristocracy in our religious institutions but the way we approach making a living and political organization is entirely modernist because we are too blinded to perceive the necessary alternative.

    Modernist egalitarianism has blinded us to the necessity of groups consisting solely of men without exception. Not only must women be kept out but also kept largely ignorant of male group activities. This was the uniform practice of pre-liberal civilizations and so we must do the same. Actually there are very important and practical reasons for this policy but giving voice to them in post-"Enlightenment" society could produce accusations of criminal insanity. Nevertheless, I proceed.

    All-male organizations spontaneously form into hierarchies with those most able rising to the top and those less able cheerfully following orders of the leadership for the greater good of all. If women are allowed to observe this process, they become uncontrollably attracted to the highest ranking men as toward celebrities and despising of the lower.

    Thus, a lower-ranking married man will begin to experience trouble at home if his wife is allowed too close an observation of his status. In such a mixed environment, lower-ranking men begin to resent their status and those in leadership are tempted exercise power more ostentatiously as a way to further attract the ladies. The lower-ranking man is thereby motivated to separate in search of "freedom" and to avoid being the "sucker."

    Catholic men as unnaturally atomized and alienated individuals will always be weaker, poorer, and less inspired than those connected in a natural state of brotherhood. sɛҳuąƖ egalitarianism is only one of the many modernist mind viruses preventing such organization, but it serves as a signal example. Putting oneself in the shoes of a time traveler from the Twelfth Century can make apparent the many ways Catholics today have been deceptively convinced to self-sabotage.

    You say that trads cannot get along with those whom they disagree, but every day they go to work alongside pagans, liberals, and perhaps even trannies. Would you really be so adverse to collaborating with an organization that included sedes and accordistas if it enabled you to better support your family and your wife could not see from whom you were taking orders?


    Offline JPaul

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    SSPX mod - We cant have rampant dissent about the Pope
    « Reply #32 on: July 18, 2015, 09:20:35 AM »
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  • Columba,
    Quote
    I believe I see that the enemy has successfully deployed a subtle strategy of demoralization against us. Even if nobody else sees this, I will speak out. The enemy has deep knowledge concerning subtleties of the mind, heart, and spirit that increasingly superficial generations have now long forgotten. This leaves us defenseless against even the most simplistic of deceptions for which our ancestors never could have fallen.


    This is the truth. A true sense of combat has disappeared from among us,  as it was slowly replaced by the thoughts and "feelings" which are alien to the Christian spirit.
    In most cases you are speaking to ears that can no longer hear or recognize the speech of what you are are proposing. It is a long ago forgotten vocabulary.

    Take heart, I said most, but, not all.  

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    I was cast upon thee from the womb. From my mother' s womb thou art my God,  Depart not from me. For tribulation is very near: for there is none to help me.


    Offline Luker

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    SSPX mod - We cant have rampant dissent about the Pope
    « Reply #33 on: July 18, 2015, 10:39:07 AM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    Quote from: Matthew

    But it seems to me that we are SO outnumbered in this world, that talking about "conquering" is more or less crazy-talk.

    That's why many wise prelates like +Williamson are expecting a chastisement to set things right. Anything short of that would be vain politics, doomed to fail.

    Yes. I do not think it is likely for the world to become Catholic without divine intervention. There are so few true Catholics left to convert people. Maybe 100 thousand out of seven billion. That's not much.



    It can be depressing to think of the state of the Church and how few are practicing the faith but I remember reading from the life of St John Vianney, that the devil told him that if there were just two more priests in the world like him in sanctity then his power in the world would be broken. That is encouraging to think on. It isn't all about the numbers, we need to be saints and God will do the rest!

    Keep the Holy Catholic faith, pray the Holy Rosary daily (the weapon as Padre Pio said) and trust compete in the Providence of God.
    Pray the Holy Rosary every day!!

    Offline Columba

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    SSPX mod - We cant have rampant dissent about the Pope
    « Reply #34 on: July 18, 2015, 04:53:24 PM »
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  • Quote from: Matto
    Quote from: Matthew

    But it seems to me that we are SO outnumbered in this world, that talking about "conquering" is more or less crazy-talk.

    That's why many wise prelates like +Williamson are expecting a chastisement to set things right. Anything short of that would be vain politics, doomed to fail.

    Yes. I do not think it is likely for the world to become Catholic without divine intervention. There are so few true Catholics left to convert people. Maybe 100 thousand out of seven billion. That's not much.

    We should not be concerned over whether we can conquer or convert the world, only with conquering and converting ourselves. What God does with us after that is entirely up to Him.


    Offline Columba

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    SSPX mod - We cant have rampant dissent about the Pope
    « Reply #35 on: July 18, 2015, 04:58:19 PM »
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  • Quote from: Luker
    It isn't all about the numbers, we need to be saints and God will do the rest!

    Inordinate concern over numbers indicates unconscious acceptance of the error and falsehood of democracy. Doctrinaire democracy stands condemned by the popes:

    Quote
    Indeed, very many men ... say that all power comes from the people; so that those who exercise it in the State do so not as their own, but as delegated to them by the people, and that, by this rule, it can be revoked by the will of the very people by whom it was delegated. But from these, Catholics dissent, who affirm that the right to rule is from God, as from a natural and necessary principle.

    Leo XIII--DIUTURNUM--ON THE ORIGIN OF CIVIL POWER

    History repeatedly demonstrates that the most powerful forces on earth are hierarchically-ordered groups of Catholic men with leadership looking upward to the hierarchy of Heaven. All power is miniscule next to that of God. Armies fully and properly aligned with His will simply cannot lose.

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    SSPX mod - We cant have rampant dissent about the Pope
    « Reply #36 on: July 18, 2015, 05:28:50 PM »
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  • Ok, let me play devils advocate here.  All of you preaching Catholic Action and rebuilding the guilds and all of this, i'm all for it, and IN THEORY, it's a great idea.  But how do we do it, PRACTICALLY?  I think that's what Matthew and I are arguing, the practicality of it.

    But, as you say, God will bless efforts if we start.  I don't want to be pessimistic and use that as an excuse to be lazy.

    But the main problem, and a MAJOR difference between now and "Lepanto" times is that we catholics have no leader.  We're fragmented (to put it mildly).  

    So, who's gonna lead this movement?  More importantly, who's gonna FOLLOW the leader?  What's the plan?  I cannot be more serious when i say that i will help in any way I can.

    Offline JPaul

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    SSPX mod - We cant have rampant dissent about the Pope
    « Reply #37 on: July 18, 2015, 10:14:50 PM »
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  • Pax Vobis,
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    But the main problem, and a MAJOR difference between now and "Lepanto" times is that we catholics have no leader. We're fragmented (to put it mildly).

    There is a primary problem in this whole crisis. There are no leaders in what should be the Church Militant of this world.


    Offline MariaCatherine

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    SSPX mod - We cant have rampant dissent about the Pope
    « Reply #38 on: July 20, 2015, 02:38:19 PM »
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  • Someone should start a thread in the mens' forum on all-male organizations, if he hasn't already.  I would like to think something will come of this great idea.
    What return shall I make to the Lord for all the things that He hath given unto me?

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    « Reply #39 on: July 20, 2015, 07:47:42 PM »
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  • After some thought on this, I think there should be a movement to "re-promote" the following devotions, at each church/chapel, in each state, in each country, all over the world:

    1.  Daily Rosary - I know, it seems basic, but how many catholics are there that don't say 5 mysteries daily.  If we only knew, my gut tells me we'd be shocked.

    2.  First Saturday Mass - We need to re-promote the Fatima message.  I know that at my chapel, first saturdays are MORE attended than at other saturdays, but it's still below 40% of sunday mass attendance.  We need REPARATIONS!  It brings MERCY.

    3.  As others have mentioned, there are other "societies" that we could setup.  The Holy Face "society" where prayers are said each Sunday, in reparation for blasphemies, profanation of Sundays/Holydays, etc would be one that people could stay after mass on sundays and be a part of.

    Many of these things do not require people to come BACK to church.  They are a good reminder for them to do AT HOME and it gets people ENERGIZED for the faith, because they are part of a group.  

    Many times, in our day and age, we lose our hope because the devil has made us all to feel "alone" or "separated".  These types of groups can fix that.  And they are simple and for the lay society that is a large part of traditional catholicism today.

    Offline Columba

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    « Reply #40 on: July 21, 2015, 12:31:15 AM »
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  • Quote from: Pax Vobis
    Ok, let me play devils advocate here.  All of you preaching Catholic Action and rebuilding the guilds and all of this, i'm all for it, and IN THEORY, it's a great idea.  But how do we do it, PRACTICALLY?  I think that's what Matthew and I are arguing, the practicality of it.

    But, as you say, God will bless efforts if we start.  I don't want to be pessimistic and use that as an excuse to be lazy.


    We have no power to reform the existing governments and culture of Western nations, yet we do currently have the power to internally secede to varying degrees from the dominant culture. The goal of this movement should be to facilitate such in-place or virtual secession to a much greater degree than is now practical. For the purpose of this post, I will refer to this movement as the Catholic Cultural Reconstruction (CCR). A successful CCR movement would start to rebuild Catholic alternatives for:

    1. Secular corporate and governmental employment
    Example: Facilitate development and promote the patronization of guild-member businesses especially family business to begin while the main bread-winner is still conventionally employed.

    2. Career education, training, and apprenticeship
    Example: Guild-members with marketable skills could compile training materials such as publications, videos and software for preparing aspirants to join their field. Members could profit by hand-picking the most able of the aspirants for workers in their own consulting businesses.

    Much of engineering these days involves the specialized use of powerful engineering software. A bright junior guild-member who took the time to learn software like AutoCad, MathCad, LabView, Solidworks, Flow-3D, HydroCad, ArcGIS, PetroMod, etc. could be a great asset to senior guild-member's engineering consultancy. This software is usually expensive but can be obtained for free or at a discount for educational purposes. The senior member could start his consultancy part-time while he was still employed or have a guild-brother start it if there were contractual impediments with his employer. Members seeking a mid-life career change could also benefit from such an arrangement.

    Software programmers along with systems, network, and database administrators would be even more able to train junior partners because there is so much free and low-cost online material for available for training, almost too much. So trainees would greatly benefit from experienced mentors curating a curriculum for them based on what is really most demanded in the current marketplace.

    Electricians, HVAC technicians, auto mechanics, and many other trades could also train or partially train apprentices in this way.

    3. Hollywood/pop music entertainment
    Example: Train and promote classical and folk musician and collaborate to develop small-time, traditional-themed video productions. Entertainment may not seem like a high priority but Hollywood and pop music serve as powerful vectors for incrementally corrupting the minds of everyone and especially the youth. Many trad families imagine they can screen Hollywood movies to allow only the "good ones" but they are naive. Their faith may survive but will almost certainly be weakened. We need more who are powerful in the faith instead of just hanging on.

    Collaborative studio production of music and video can take place remotely over the internet. Guilds should prioritize the patronage of traditionalist audio and video productions so that Catholic culture may once again flourish through the medium of art.

    4. Central bank currencies
    Example: Creating a Bitcoin-style crypto currency for particular interest groups is technically feasible and increasingly commonplace. Central banks literally "make" money and lend it to us at interest. Why not do the same for ourselves internally?

    5. Food and consumer goods
    Example: Guild-affiliated suppliers and co-ops

    Quote from: Pax Vobis
    But the main problem, and a MAJOR difference between now and "Lepanto" times is that we catholics have no leader.  We're fragmented (to put it mildly).


    This issue is frequently brought up so let's analyze. The man the world recognizes as pope is heard breezily implying that "gαy" is okay and stating countless other outrages. Whatever our position on the legitimacy of his office, we trads do not follow in the direction he is leading or if we do then to that extent we are not traditional. When the king cannot lead, a steward or stewards are appointed. Traditionalist priest societies are providing stewardship in the religious sphere, but what of the temporal? The necessary temporal component for the Social Kingship of Christ has been mostly dormant for considerably longer than 1965. The prolonged temporal power vacuum may have made the 1960's religious collapse practically inevitable.

    A fruitful CCR movement would decrease the vacuum in the temporal sphere as priest societies currently do in the religious.

    Quote from: Pax Vobis
    So, who's gonna lead this movement?  More importantly, who's gonna FOLLOW the leader?  What's the plan?  I cannot be more serious when i say that i will help in any way I can.

    Who's gonna lead? Let's take a vote! (Just kidding.)

    As a people seeking to throw off the tyrannical yoke of "Enlightenment" and the errors which led to it, we may find the currently dominant ideologies of political organization to be insufficient. We should demand a higher standard of leadership such as was enjoyed in healthier times. If the CCR movement begins to bear fruit, it will draw many newcomers to the faith. Some will see joining a guild as a pathway to wealth and power but will care little for the Church mission. Such people cannot be kept out of the church and will be difficult to keep out of the guilds entirely.

    To deter the slide toward laxity which so often plagues traditionalist groups, we must erect safeguards in the form of barriers to positions of leadership. Untested newcomers should not be able to vote one of their own to guild leadership. Only those possessing the greatest aristocratic qualities of proven faith and ability should be allowed in the highest leadership positions and those of medium aristocratic qualities in the mid-level positions.

    If we were fighting physical battles, then those most warlike would simply gravitate to the top. In our technological society, we must devise other means of determining rank. I have suggestions of how this might work but each guild would have to develop its own ranking system by trial and error. One method might be a weighted points scale measuring aristocratic qualities. Such qualities objectively measurable could include:

    1. Faithfulness as measured by daily mass attendance.
    2. Wealth as measured by religious donations and patronage of guild-affiliated businesses.
    3. Seniority
    4. Age
    5. Number of children and grandchildren (overall, those who keep the faith, and those who join a guild)
    6. Technical skills
    7. Martial arts competition
    8. Marksmanship
    9. Worldly wisdom determined in chess or poker tournaments
    10. Intelligence as measured by IQ score
    11. Father or grandfather having membership in a guild
    12. Parents and grandparents having the faith
    13. Weight-lifting competition

    There are many other potential measurements of aristocracy. Guild founders and leadership could weight the measurements according to whom they wished to see rise in rank for the purpose of ensuring worthy successors. Such a system might not pick the best leader but it probably would not pick the worst. If the leadership of a guild liberalized or became incompetent, lower-ranking members could break off and form their own guild. Some guilds might include all trad types while others might be sede or indult exclusive. However, I anticipate that most guilds will maintain business and cultural ties with the central CCR movement for the financial benefits alone, if nothing else.


    Offline poche

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    SSPX mod - We cant have rampant dissent about the Pope
    « Reply #41 on: July 23, 2015, 11:20:36 PM »
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  • So we shouldn't discuss how Pope Francis condemns transgenderism and abortion as evil in Laudatio Si?

    Offline Ladislaus

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    SSPX mod - We cant have rampant dissent about the Pope
    « Reply #42 on: July 24, 2015, 07:19:39 AM »
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  • Quote from: poche
    So we shouldn't discuss how Pope Francis condemns transgenderism and abortion as evil in Laudatio Si?


    No, not at all.  If he gets it right 5% of the time, or even 90% of the time, that doesn't even come close to salvaging his papacy.  So unless he denies 100% of Catholic doctrine, he's a good guy?

    Offline JPaul

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    SSPX mod - We cant have rampant dissent about the Pope
    « Reply #43 on: July 24, 2015, 07:20:53 AM »
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  • Quote from: poche
    So we shouldn't discuss how Pope Francis condemns transgenderism and abortion as evil in Laudatio Si?


    Being that his writings contain much that is doubtful, in a Catholic sense, and that he holds many erroneous positions, reading his letters can only confuse and endanger a true Catholic, and there is no good reason to read them at all.

    Whatever he might say that is true, is always mixed in with conciliar falsehoods.

    Offline Columba

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    SSPX mod - We cant have rampant dissent about the Pope
    « Reply #44 on: July 27, 2015, 11:49:57 AM »
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  • Quote from: Pax Vobis
    Ok, let me play devils advocate here.  All of you preaching Catholic Action and rebuilding the guilds and all of this, i'm all for it, and IN THEORY, it's a great idea.  But how do we do it, PRACTICALLY?  I think that's what Matthew and I are arguing, the practicality of it.

    But, as you say, God will bless efforts if we start.  I don't want to be pessimistic and use that as an excuse to be lazy.

    But the main problem, and a MAJOR difference between now and "Lepanto" times is that we catholics have no leader.  We're fragmented (to put it mildly).  

    So, who's gonna lead this movement?  More importantly, who's gonna FOLLOW the leader?  What's the plan?  I cannot be more serious when i say that i will help in any way I can.

    Pax, I have answered you with a detailed plan on what I consider a practical strategy for rebuilding the guilds. Any thoughts?