I hate the new-sspx's liberalization as much as anyone, but the criticism over mask wearing IN FRANCE is juvenile and unfair. France doesn't have what little protections/freedom that we still have here. We've all heard the horror stories from NY and CA. In Poland, a priest was arrested for saying mass and you think France is less communist than Poland? Fat chance. Do you want the entire new-sspx to go to jail over avoiding a mask? What will that solve? Nothing.I mean I think the counter would be to offer mass "underground" in private homes or whatnot. I suppose that would come down to just how draconian the situation in France is, and how serious one takes the masking issue.
I hate the new-sspx's liberalization as much as anyone, but the criticism over mask wearing IN FRANCE is juvenile and unfair. France doesn't have what little protections/freedom that we still have here. We've all heard the horror stories from NY and CA. In Poland, a priest was arrested for saying mass and you think France is less communist than Poland? Fat chance. Do you want the entire new-sspx to go to jail over avoiding a mask? What will that solve? Nothing.
Macron and his ancient jewess "Mommy" wife have aggressively locked down France.That doesn't meaningfully interact with Pax's point because Pax is arguing against how the SSPX should respond. As far as I can tell he's not disputing that the mandates themselves are tyrannical.
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse2.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.zqecZh8w3fAp_bR3rrtmHgHaDl%26pid%3DApi&f=1)
The jews fear a Catholic awakening and uprising from a country known as the Daughter of the Catholic Church.
(https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thenational.ae%2Fimage%2Fpolicy%3A1.815273%3A1547892892%2FFRANCE-POLITICS-SOCIAL-DEMO.jpg%3Ff%3D16x9%26w%3D1200%26%24p%24f%24w%3D5463102&f=1&nofb=1)
For example, in the past 6 months, they've used many mossad-style tactics to try and crush the Yellow Vest movement.
The jews fear a Catholic awakening and uprising from a country known as the Daughter of the Catholic Church..
I mean I think the counter would be to offer mass "underground" in private homes or whatnot.
Over a mask? How are you going to cram hundreds of people into a few basements? And how are you going to do it, without next door neighbors calling the police? Is a priest supposed to say 5 masses a day, at different houses of 40 people? It doesn't make sense.
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My point is, people are criticizing the new-sspx for wearing masks, yet they've not grasped the situation that the new-sspx IN FRANCE, has no choice. People in NY and CA have no choice either. Welcome to the start of tyranny. Tyranny is the "new normal". People criticizing this or that aren't "woke" to the reality that there's no more freedom. The uncharitableness and naivety of the criticisms for wearing masks is astounding. The mask issue is a distraction.
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I highly doubt this.
That doesn't meaningfully interact with Pax's point because Pax is arguing against how the SSPX should respond. As far as I can tell he's not disputing that the mandates themselves are tyrannical.Gee, I thought you'd make the connection that when in France, the French SSPX does as the French do... or risk getting arrested ? :popcorn:
The idea of attacking religious brothers and sisters who have given their whole life to serving God and administering traditional Catholic faithful over wearing piece of cloth on their face is bizzare. This anti-mask obsession of some people is getting as unreasonable as that COVID hysterics who wear masks when alone in their house...I wonder if you’ll be as cavalier when they come to give you the “vaccine?”
They blasphemously insult God's creation when they suggest that His only rational creation in the physical realm -- man -- lacks the reasoning, sensory, and intellectual faculties to determine IF HE IS FEELING SICK OR NOT.Man has the faculties to determine if he is feeling sick or not, but he doesn't have the faculties to determine if he is infected or not, as is proven by daily experience. If men could determine whether he is infected or not, than diseases wouldn't spread.
Over a mask? How are you going to cram hundreds of people into a few basements? And how are you going to do it, without next door neighbors calling the police? Is a priest supposed to say 5 masses a day, at different houses of 40 people? It doesn't make sense.i can’t speak for france or even NYC but most people at the sspx (and this is just regular sspx, not sspx resistance) don’t wear masks out on long island for the most part. a few people do and nobody gives them a hard time about it but most people don’t and it’s not a requirement and the police haven’t done anything or anything.
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My point is, people are criticizing the new-sspx for wearing masks, yet they've not grasped the situation that the new-sspx IN FRANCE, has no choice. People in NY and CA have no choice either. Welcome to the start of tyranny. Tyranny is the "new normal". People criticizing this or that aren't "woke" to the reality that there's no more freedom. The uncharitableness and naivety of the criticisms for wearing masks is astounding. The mask issue is a distraction.
Over a mask? How are you going to cram hundreds of people into a few basements? And how are you going to do it, without next door neighbors calling the police? Is a priest supposed to say 5 masses a day, at different houses of 40 people? It doesn't make sense.i’m not sure what the right answer is. at a certain point you can only do what can be done. i do dislike the notion of churches being complicit with this tyranny though. at the very least i think whatever we can do to avoid that should be done if possible. and yeah i do think the masks are a big deal.
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My point is, people are criticizing the new-sspx for wearing masks, yet they've not grasped the situation that the new-sspx IN FRANCE, has no choice. People in NY and CA have no choice either. Welcome to the start of tyranny. Tyranny is the "new normal". People criticizing this or that aren't "woke" to the reality that there's no more freedom. The uncharitableness and naivety of the criticisms for wearing masks is astounding. The mask issue is a distraction.
at the very least i think whatever we can do to avoid that should be done if possible. and yeah i do think the masks are a big deal.That is good advice, at least resist as much as possible. All citizens need to band together to resist this tyranny. It is easier to resist the mask now as a group (as they cannot arrest all of you at once when you are in the thousands) than to resist the vaccine by yourself.
I wonder if you’ll be as cavalier when they come to give you the “vaccine?”
If wearing a mask is a condition working in a particular place (as it is for many of us) and is enforced would people quit their job or be fired?
If wearing a mask is a condition of entering a supermarket or other food store and is enforced would people go hungry or let their children go hungry?
If wearing a mask is a condition of going to Mass would you keep yourself and your family home?
I am not asking you to agree with wearing a mask to work, shop or Mass, I am asking you if you would refuse to go to those places if the law, employers or retailers demanded it.
We can go on about how it offends reason and so forth until we're evicted for not paying our mortgage/rent, until we go hungry or until our souls wither but our opposition must be proportionate.
We’ve had a (illegal) mask mandate in Minnesota which mandates wearing a mask everywhere.There is an element of narcissism about the never maskers and you have confirmed this.
We have no choice, you would say?
But I haven’t worn a mask anywhere I go.
Looks like I do have a choice:
I choose not to comply.
I wouldn’t lose my job over it, but not only don’t I wear a mask anywhere, I have one taped to my back truck window that says “Wearing a mask is stupid.”
From a French Resistance Forum post by Joseph:Resistance? Where? Lol!
There is an element of narcissism about the never maskers and you have confirmed this.
Not everybody lives in your bubble nor are they bound by the rules of your state or municipality.
I have a question. Valtorta's "Poem of the Man-God" was forbidden put on the index of forbidden books by the Holy Office in 1959. Dominicans from Avrille also spoke openly against it's usage:I don't know anything about this book in question TBH.
http://www.dominicansavrille.us/what-should-we-make-of-the-book-the-poem-of-the-man-god-by-maria-valtorta-2/ (http://www.dominicansavrille.us/what-should-we-make-of-the-book-the-poem-of-the-man-god-by-maria-valtorta-2/)
Bp. Williamson, however, recommended the book.
Some members of this forum agreed with the Dominicans and concluded that Bp. Williamson was wrong in promoting this work, condemned by the Holy Office and (to my knowledge) never rehabilitated.
But this difference of opinion about relatively serious matter didn't bother you too much. You never called Bp. Williamson names for having a different opinion and using the condemned work which priests from his own "camp" call erroneous and seriously problematic.
Now, even if SSPX priests thought that masks are great thing and enforced them on their own initiative, without the least pressure from civil authorities (which obviously isn't the case - they were gravely pressured), it would still be a difference of opinion on the scientific issue which would be of much less importance than Bp. Williamson's actions in relation to Poem of the Man God. Why do You tolerate difference of opinion with regards to Bp. Williamson, while attacking SSPX for much less serious issue?
The mask police take a little girl in Germany:I have serious concerns about cooperating with this kind of nonsense by masking in church too.
https://twitter.com/Satisfaction778/status/1320606081383604224
Translated description:The chain dogs of the Merkel dictatorship.[/pre]
Listen carefully in video 2: The brave little girl (according to him) bit the policeman in the hand. At the moment when at least 3 of these criminals set out to capture the defenseless victim.
The mask police take a little girl in Germany:Shhhhh.....the Menzingen shill wants to redirect the conversation to....Valtorta😂😂!
https://twitter.com/Satisfaction778/status/1320606081383604224
Translated description:The chain dogs of the Merkel dictatorship.[/pre]
Listen carefully in video 2: The brave little girl (according to him) bit the policeman in the hand. At the moment when at least 3 of these criminals set out to capture the defenseless victim.
Ahem, if you are a masker, then it is you who have chosen to live in a bubble.You avoided my questions and now I know why.
As for the narcissism, this is obviously psychological self-projection:
The masked virtue signalers are seeking approval, and making assertions of narcissism are a coping mechanism by which cowards rebuff the sting of low self-esteem by deflecting self-reproach onto those more courageous, principled, and noble than themselves.
The cowardly hate the courageous, as their example is a continual reminder to them of their inadequacy.
You avoided my questions and now I know why.You just keep those excuses coming, honey.
You think that those who do wear a mask because if we don't we won't have a job, be able to buy groceries or go to Mass are 'virtue signallers'. This despite the fact that you don't know the people you're talking about. You think the people who wear a mask in compliance with store rules or the law to buy food for their children are cowards. You think that those who wear a mask in work in compliance with the law or workplace regulations are "inadequate."
You are exactly the kind of narcissistic fanatic that people try to avoid. Even now all you want here is an argument. you are not using your reason, something that traditional Catholics are supposed to have in greater measure than the population at large. Well as long as you feel good about yourself I suppose. Keep it up.
You avoided my questions and now I know why.I wouldn't go that far, but unless you're *sure* non compliance will lead to you getting screwed over, it would be worth at least trying IMO.
You think that those who do wear a mask because if we don't we won't have a job, be able to buy groceries or go to Mass are 'virtue signallers'. This despite the fact that you don't know the people you're talking about. You think the people who wear a mask in compliance with store rules or the law to buy food for their children are cowards. You think that those who wear a mask in work in compliance with the law or workplace regulations are "inadequate."
You are exactly the kind of narcissistic fanatic that people try to avoid. Even now all you want here is an argument. you are not using your reason, something that traditional Catholics are supposed to have in greater measure than the population at large. Well as long as you feel good about yourself I suppose. Keep it up.
You avoided my questions and now I know why..
You think that those who do wear a mask because if we don't we won't have a job, be able to buy groceries or go to Mass are 'virtue signallers'. This despite the fact that you don't know the people you're talking about. You think the people who wear a mask in compliance with store rules or the law to buy food for their children are cowards. You think that those who wear a mask in work in compliance with the law or workplace regulations are "inadequate."
You are exactly the kind of narcissistic fanatic that people try to avoid. Even now all you want here is an argument. you are not using your reason, something that traditional Catholics are supposed to have in greater measure than the population at large. Well as long as you feel good about yourself I suppose. Keep it up.
I hate the new-sspx's liberalization as much as anyone, but the criticism over mask wearing IN FRANCE is juvenile and unfair. France doesn't have what little protections/freedom that we still have here. We've all heard the horror stories from NY and CA. In Poland, a priest was arrested for saying mass and you think France is less communist than Poland? Fat chance. Do you want the entire new-sspx to go to jail over avoiding a mask? What will that solve? Nothing.The priest who was arrested was a suspended Salesian priest who had fallen out with his superiors. The priest was protesting COVID measures, but if his superiors order him to cease, he had either to comply, quit the order or disobey and take the consequences. In part he quit the Salesians who had allowed him to stay for now, but he refused to cease offering Masses. They called the police. Anyhow, it is more an issue with the Modernist behemoth which is the Salesian order (some 14,000 plus religious without counting lay staff). Poland itself has public Masses, albeit today there were efforts at disruption by the woke element over further restrictions on abortion.
I have a question. Valtorta's "Poem of the Man-God" was forbidden put on the index of forbidden books by the Holy Office in 1959. Dominicans from Avrille also spoke openly against it's usage:You should take your red herring to its own thread.
http://www.dominicansavrille.us/what-should-we-make-of-the-book-the-poem-of-the-man-god-by-maria-valtorta-2/ (http://www.dominicansavrille.us/what-should-we-make-of-the-book-the-poem-of-the-man-god-by-maria-valtorta-2/)
Bp. Williamson, however, recommended the book.
Some members of this forum agreed with the Dominicans and concluded that Bp. Williamson was wrong in promoting this work, condemned by the Holy Office and (to my knowledge) never rehabilitated.
But this difference of opinion about relatively serious matter didn't bother you too much. You never called Bp. Williamson names for having a different opinion and using the condemned work which priests from his own "camp" call erroneous and seriously problematic.
Now, even if SSPX priests thought that masks are great thing and enforced them on their own initiative, without the least pressure from civil authorities (which obviously isn't the case - they were gravely pressured), it would still be a difference of opinion on the scientific issue which would be of much less importance than Bp. Williamson's actions in relation to Poem of the Man God. Why do You tolerate difference of opinion with regards to Bp. Williamson, while attacking SSPX for much less serious issue?
.... I think that when I comply I am just perpetuating the hoax - which is devastating countless lives. ....
Masking perpetuates the wicked lie.
Shhhhh.....the Menzingen shill wants to redirect the conversation to....Valtorta😂😂!You quoted wrong post, smart guy... Anyways, since You wanted to reply to my post, I don't want to redirect the conversation since the conversation about Valtorta is prety much over. I just want to show unhealthy attitude of some on this forum that think that wearing mask is more serious issue than supporting condemned book, being sedevacantist, etc. Imagine telling some saint or theologian 100 years ago that you will be friendly with people who deny that the person you hold as a pope truly is the pope and that you will consider the promoter of condemned work as a leader of your movement, but that you will at the same tine be sacrastic and rude towards somebody who for practical reason puts piece of cloth over their face... Just imagine what saint would think about even comparing the importance of difference of oppinion on the issue of whether the pope is the pope and whether piece of cloth over your mouth can help you (or whether it is, in current circunstances, best to wear it even if it won't significantly help you and even if epidemiological situation isn't that serious).
... wearing masks at Lourdes is a denial of all that Lourdes stands for.Really? I'd be interested to know what you think Lourdes actually stands for.
It's an utter disgrace and a scandal.
A lot of us are able to appreciate maskless masses, whatever notice is pinned in the Church foyer or on their websites. It would be extremely intelligent to delete this thread in order not to provoke unwanted visits from the authorities.I agree - I made a mistake by quoting this in the response to Mr. Johnson (although Mr. Johnson said this in another thread). I would like to delete the post, but I am not able to, since I am not the moderator.
Please learn discretion as we are in a time of war
You quoted wrong post, smart guy... Anyways, since You wanted to reply to my post, I don't want to redirect the conversation since the conversation about Valtorta is prety much over. I just want to show unhealthy attitude of some on this forum that think that wearing mask is more serious issue than supporting condemned book,Have you expressed your concern to Fr. Kevin Robinson's superiors as he unapologetically supports the "condemn book" on his website?
Matthew-Sean, I know Avrillé very well and it would be exeedingly wise to have anything that brings them to the attention of the authorities removed. I don't know about the other SSPX chapels mentioned in the thread but the ones I know are mask and social distancing free.
The Menzingen shill would like you to delete anything critical of the SSPX.
Could you please get that taken care of?