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Author Topic: SSPX Letter on the Vaxing of its NZ Teachers  (Read 2418 times)

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Offline Aleah

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Re: SSPX Letter on the Vaxing of its NZ Teachers
« Reply #15 on: January 04, 2022, 06:21:08 PM »
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  • Why haven't they gone underground? Did they forget of their Catholic history and catacombs?
    I am He who is- you are she who is not.

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: SSPX Letter on the Vaxing of its NZ Teachers
    « Reply #16 on: January 04, 2022, 09:20:06 PM »
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  • Meanwhile, over in the Novus Ordo:

    https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/bp-strickland-id-rather-die-than-benefit-from-anything-produced-by-using-an-aborted-child/?utm_source=top_news&utm_campaign=usa 


    Bp. Strickland: ‘I’d rather die than benefit from anything produced by using an aborted child’

    Long a strong critic of abortion-tainted COVID shots, Bishop Strickland is 'tripling down' on his opposition, this time in support of similar statements by Fr. Mark Goring.
    Featured ImageBishop Joseph Strickland of Tyler, Texas



    Emily Mangiaracina
    Comments
    Tue Jan 4, 2022 - 9:01 pm EST
    (LifeSiteNews) – Bishop Joseph Strickland of Tyler, Texas avowed that he would rather die than attempt to benefit from a “vaccine” produced using an aborted child.
    Strickland shared his strongest repudiation yet of abortion-tainted vaccines in a Dec. 30 tweet supporting similar sentiments by Father Mark Goring:




    Both Strickland and Goring have been vocal opponents of the use of fetal cell lines in the development of “vaccines” or any other products since at least soon after the COVID-19 outbreak. In December 2020, they discussed with each other the moral problems with the COVID vaccines developed using cell lines of aborted children.
    Strickland said of the vaccines at the time, “The bottom line is, if it used unborn children that were aborted, intentionally killed, and we’re using their bodies to build something that helps our bodies, I say no, and I encourage others to say no.”
    When Goring brought up the interior conflict of someone who wants to protect an elderly, vulnerable family member from COVID-19 and its potentially deadly consequences, Strickland pointed out that the Code of Canon Law expressly states that it is “based on the salvation of souls,” and therefore all of our decisions should prioritize that end.
    Strickland cautioned people “to not compromise that call to everlasting life to hang on to a few more years here.”
    While the video from Goring that Strickland shared in his Dec. 30 tweet has since been made private, Goring has two public recent videos expressing his firm rejection of abortion-tainted pharmaceutical products, including “vaccines,” that is, those developed using cells derived from aborted children.
    In his “Tainted Pharmaceuticals” video posted Dec. 29 of a homily he gave during Mass, Goring decried the use of products developed using cells of aborted children as a kind of complicity with the killing of children.
    Goring recalled how King Herod, in fear of the rise of the King of the Jєωs the Magi, came to adore, ordered the killing of children “from a distance”: “He’s not going to hear the cries, he’s not going to see the blood. … And so, too, this industry, this approach that we’re told is expanding — we don’t see it, we don’t hear it, we don’t hear the cries, but we’re kind of complicit with it.”



    Goring noted that the original mainstream “narrative” “was that it was just maybe one or two abortions from the 60s or 70s” used in pharmaceutical products. “But more recently, it’s been acknowledged,” Goring said, that “hundreds” of aborted children have been used to help produce currently used pharmaceuticals.
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    “I was talking to a doctor who’s very well aware of this reality of using unborn children to make these products. It’s worse than you imagine,” Goring continued. “I’ll spare you the details, but this is gruesome. It’s horrific. It’s an abomination. It should be outlawed.”
    Goring suggested that Christians put pressure on pharmaceutical companies by refusing to use any product that is “abortion-tainted.”
    “Money talks,” Goring said. “If you can’t figure out how to make something not abortion tainted, too bad, figure it out. We’re good at figuring things out if we have to.
    Goring pointed out in another talk that “many pharmaceutical companies are very happy to highlight that there was no animal testing involved in the production of their products.”
    “We should have the same respect for the life of unborn children. If consumers demand to know whether or not a product is abortion tainted, we shouldn’t be laughed out of the pharmacy. This is a perfectly legitimate thing to be concerned about.”
    In the same way that labels alert consumers as to whether products have been tested on animals, or whether products contain animal products, pharmaceutical products should have labels indicating whether they’ve been tested on the cell lines of unborn children, Goring suggested in his sermon on tainted pharmaceuticals.
    “I want to see a little symbol one day that indicates [that] this medication I’m taking, or the product I’m taking is not abortion tainted. Because I don’t want to have anything to do with the taking of the innocent life of a child,” Goring said.



    Strickland, who has frequently decried the abortion-tainted COVID “vaccines,” most recently highlighted the failure of bishops in their duty to oppose totalitarian COVID mandates, in an episode of The Bishop Strickland Show.
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: SSPX Letter on the Vaxing of its NZ Teachers
    « Reply #17 on: January 08, 2022, 06:36:10 AM »
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  • Three more articles from (another?) anonymous priest, writing under the pseudonym "Fr. Ambrose Astor," for your consideration:

    1) Conscience and Vaccines: https://catacombs.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/misc/Fr._Ambrose_Astor/Ambrosiaster_1_Conscience.pdf

    2) Prudence and Vaccines: https://catacombs.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/misc/Fr._Ambrose_Astor/Ambrosiaster_2_Prudence.pdf

    3) Charity and Vaccines (Intended for Priests): https://catacombs.nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/misc/Fr._Ambrose_Astor/Ambrosiaster_3_Charity.pdf

    Fr. Ambrose Astor can be contacted directly here: ambroseastor@protonmail.com

    I corresponded with Fr. “Astor,” and here’s how it went:

    Quote
    Greetings Fr. Astor-

    I'm not sure whether you are familiar with the rather surprising lax position the SSPX has taken regarding the moral liceity of the COVID19 "vaccine" (until 2006, they held that under no circuмstances could anyone knowingly receive an abortion-tainted vaccine, but reversed that position after the 2005 PAL docuмent), but in the course of my online opposition to that position, I came across your recent articles on conscience, prudence, and charity relative to the jab, and wondered if you could take a look at the attached letter the SSPX recently published in New Zealand, announcing that the teachers at it's school there would take the "vaccine" in order to keep their school open.

    It seems the SSPX is not concerned to meet the requirements for moral liceity contained within the 2008/2020 CDF docuмents (preferring instead to quote from manuals regarding general principles of remote material cooperation in evil generally).

    What do you make of the arguments contained in the attached letter, ostensibly permitting the use of abortion-tainted vaccines?

    Semper Idem,
    Sean Johnson
    USA

    Fr. “Ambrose Astor’s” response:

    Dear Mr Johnson,

    Thank you for your message. I am aware of the SSPX position which does indeed sidestep the fundamental issue of the derivation of the vaccines.

    I understand the approach of the NZ district, but I cannot approve. It is a terrible thing to have to close a good school because of unjust mandates.

    In my humble opinion, it is nevertheless essential that the schools resist, even if they have to close for a time. There are some countries in which the state has backed down eventually. I think it is a lack of faith and putting too much confidence in man.

    Disappointing.

    God bless you.
    Fr Ambrose
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-

    Offline B from A

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    Re: SSPX Letter on the Vaxing of its NZ Teachers
    « Reply #18 on: January 08, 2022, 08:35:11 AM »
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  • Meanwhile, over in the Novus Ordo:

    https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/bp-strickland-id-rather-die-than-benefit-from-anything-produced-by-using-an-aborted-child/?utm_source=top_news&utm_campaign=usa

    https://www.lifesitenews.com/opinion/bp-schneider-theres-a-basic-error-in-vatican-docuмents-on-material-cooperation-with-abortion-tainted-vaccines/


    Bp. Schneider: There’s a ‘basic error’ in Vatican docuмents on ‘material cooperation’ with abortion-tainted vaccines


    Cdl. Burke: Forced vaccines violate 'integrity of citizens' - LifeSite


    Cdl. Burke: Forced vaccines violate 'integrity of citizens' - LifeSite
    LifeSite
    He also added, 'It must be clear that it is never morally justified to develop a vaccine through the use of the ...



    COVID shot mandates are 'tyranny' and should be resisted: US bishop - LifeSite


    COVID shot mandates are 'tyranny' and should be resisted: US bishop - Li...
    LifeSite
    Bishop Strickland detailed what the Catholic Church's official teaching is on vaccine or other mandates of any k...



    Bishop Strickland: I will not accept a COVID vaccine derived from aborted babies - LifeSite


    Bishop Strickland: I will not accept a COVID vaccine derived from aborte...
    LifeSite
    'I'm not going to accept a vaccine that has the DNA of aborted children in it,' His Excellency said in his lates...



    https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/california-bishop-warns-catholics-not-to-take-covid-vaccine-connected-in-any-way-to-aborted-babies/


    California bishop warns Catholics not to take COVID vaccine connected in any way to aborted babies

    Exorcist priest: Abortion-tainted vaccines are ‘ongoing theft’ of babies’ bodies


    Father Robert Altier rejected the three U.S.-backed coronavirus vaccines in late-stage testing on moral grounds


    Fr. James Altman urges flock to shun Covid-19 vaccine

    Towson Catholic priest tells parishioners vaccine mandates go against Jesus’ teachings
    (in some cases, like this last one, the stand isn't so much about the murdered baby cells, but the injustice of mandates, but still, that's better than the official SSPX position which is:  "just cave to the pressure".) 

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: SSPX Letter on the Vaxing of its NZ Teachers
    « Reply #19 on: January 08, 2022, 08:58:40 AM »
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  • Father Robert Altier rejected the three U.S.-backed coronavirus vaccines in late-stage testing on moral grounds

    I know this priest, and used to go to the Church of St. Agnes where he was then stationed back in the mid-late 1990's during my Novus Ordo days.

    The Novus Ordo there was (and still is) in Latin, using the traditional Canon exclusively, with Gregorian chant (and even poliphony), communion rail, on the tongue kneeling, with solemn high Masses which even feature a sub-deacon (which is persona non grata in the Novus Ordo), birettas, and incense.

    Its probably the most "conservative" Mass venue in the ccountry, and is a stepping-stone to the indult, and then the SSPX (many people at the local SSPX chapels used to go there).

    Doctrinally -unless he has changed since I last spoke with his 20+ years ago- he would be a JPII priest: Good on morals, but a hermeneutic of continuity-BXVI'er doctrinally.

    Today, he is now biritual, saying the TLM on the weekends (though I'm not sure how that will continue in the era of TC).

    Anyway, I remember when this sermon came out, and how strange I thought it was that the Archbishop smacked him down, going so far as to solicit the refutation of Fr. Altier's sermon by the state health department. 

    I remember starting to refute the health department's letter, but than abandoning the project, because it would only result in a worse punishment from the Archbishop if he should continue to debate the matter, or if the public should then start defending him.  Bishops rarely admit they're wrong.

    To his credit, Fr. Altier refused the bishop's request to recant/retract his sermon (this was announced by Archbishop Hebda), and he has more or less left him alone since then (or at least, I haven't seen anything in the local Catholic media to indicate otherwise).
    Romans 5:20 "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    -I retract any and all statements I have made that are incongruent with the True Faith, and apologize for ever having made them-


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: SSPX Letter on the Vaxing of its NZ Teachers
    « Reply #20 on: January 08, 2022, 02:10:17 PM »
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  • Why haven't they gone underground? Did they forget of their Catholic history and catacombs?

    Oh yeah, with all the commie-Jєω action going on there... they needed a plan of public dis-engagement.   It's to the catacombs!  :incense:
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: SSPX Letter on the Vaxing of its NZ Teachers
    « Reply #21 on: January 08, 2022, 02:18:34 PM »
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  • Msgr Lefebvre said in 1987, “[t]he future of the Catholic Church and her mission lies in teaching, especially in schools run by priests and religious who preach by word and example,” adding that “[f]or society to be converted, we need Catholic schools.” In 1982 he wrote, “We need Catholic schools where young people will learn to love the Liturgy, Latin and chant, and where they will be formed in a manly and Christian fashion by sacrificing themselves for the love of Jesus Christ under the care and guidance of their heavenly Mother.” We hope to provide you and your children the best Catholic schools we can, especially with the chance to have the perennial Liturgy of the Church given them and learn the sacrificial spirit of Our Lord, even in these challenging and trying circuмstances.

    In the face of all of these challenges, we beg your assistance, trust, and your support, especially supernaturally. Be assured we will do whatever we can to support you and your children.

    Sincerely in Our Lord, Fr Ian Andrew Palko, FSSPX
    Acting Principal


    I love how the SSPX priests have been trained to always invoke +ABL in some selected, "out-of-context manner" to justify whatever anti-trad policy they embrace.

    We Resistance must cut through the neo-SSPX BS and counter them with +ABL's true spirit:



                        SI SI NO NO
               
                      "No Death Vax!"



    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi

    Offline canis

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    Re: SSPX Letter on the Vaxing of its NZ Teachers
    « Reply #22 on: January 09, 2022, 01:04:00 AM »
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  • Others here and elsewhere have more than sufficiently rebutted the SSPX's stance on the vaccination, its morality, and how it plays a pivotal role in the transformation of global governmental power, etc. I would just comment on the following part of the letter:


    Quote
    We have previously endorsed home schooling when there is a serious reason to do so, but naturally, the Church’s practice has been to encourage proper Catholic schools. Our venerable founder, Msgr Lefebvre, put this task of schooling in our statues just after seminaries, which were the most important work of the SSPX. [...]

    There might be long-term consequences for a child’s education to be shifted out of a structured programme to home school, only later to be put back in the school environment having missed out on the curriculum that is followed in that school. That can disrupt a child’s educational progress significantly.


    There are four significant problems here, so often seen among unthinking Society priests:

    1) that the Church's teaching and tradition suggest that placement of children in a school takes precedence over home education in most circuмstances, otherwise a grave moral failure is committed by the parents;
    2) that all traditional Catholic schools are "created equal";
    3) that Msgr Lefebvre opposed home schooling;
    4) that home education as a rule will have negative long-term consequences and be significantly disruptive of the child's education.

    One of the foremost principles of Catholic philosophy of education is contained in the very purpose of matrimony: the procreation and education of offspring. This is the bedrock of education and society. The right and duty of procreation and education belong firstly to the parents, placed upon them by God both on the supernatural and natural orders.

    Hence, flowing from this principle as a direct corollary, the traditional Catholic position towards "Catholic schools" is that schools supplement, but do not supplant, home education, especially if the latter is hindered by uncontrollable circuмstances. Teachers stand in proxy for the parents; all of their authority and right to teach is entirely derivative. And even if children are placed in schools, this does not excuse parents from the duty of home education, from an active and close role in their children's upbringing and character formation. In other words, the schools flow out of the insufficiency of the family as an imperfect society, but this specific arrangement of schools as we understand them is an artificial one and one suited for specific purposes, such as standardized education as we have come to understand it in the past 150 years. Indeed, we assume school as a normal part of modern society because this society places such severe strictures on the parents in what should be the normal execution of their duties!

    Given the corruption of modern schools as well as the plethora of opportunities to educate children in many different and excellent ways that do not involve a "traditional" school, it seems careless to suggest that there is only one, proper "Church-endorsed" way to school our children given the current situation, specifically the one legislated under Canon Law 100 years ago when circuмstances were quite different than today. That situation is a complex one, canonically, morally, and politically, which warrants a separate discussion, but my criticism here is that the SSPX glosses over all of these and acts as if nothing has changed in 100 years. To default to such a position today would almost suggest that God Himself has built into marriage a modern situation that will almost inevitably lead to grave moral failure, that is, He has placed the duty of educating on parents who in most circuмstances cannot fulfill that duty without recourse to factors beyond their control! To be sure, there is a fine balancing act here since the family is an imperfect society that relies on a community to supplement its own lacks, but the parents first and foremost and as a rule have the best sense of what education each of their children will need based on their temperament, strengths, weaknesses, proclivities, etc. We forget that for most of the history of Christendom, most did not go to universities, nor did they need to, in order to become virtuous, to learn to do their duties well, and save their souls.

    As Monsignor Edward Jordan, one of the leading Catholic philosophers of education, wrote 100 years ago exactly: "No other agency, neither school, nor state, nor even Church, except by a miracle of God’s grace, can supply for the neglect of religious training in the home." He wrote this even when Canon Law required that parents support Catholic schools.

    The second problem is that not all "Traditional Catholic" schools are created equal. Parents must consider this when deciding how to educate their children. Just because a school calls itself "classical" does not mean it follows true principles of classical education, just as "Jesuit" schools would be rebuked with fire and brimstone if Saint Ignatius were alive today to see them. If a school calls itself "Traditional Catholic" does this excuse the community of due diligence? Who designed the curriculum? How was its progress tracked both among the students and alumni? How is the school environment? What steps have been taken to ensure safety for the children and that staff are properly trained in procedures? What is the vetting process for new teachers? It is clear that many Society schools were started more at the urging of parents rather than a well-directed, central plan from the Society, as Fr Palko might suggest, and many such schools suffer for lack of proper staffing and planning. Is a traditional Catholic school so much better that a young boy of 5 comes home having learned the newest rap song and movie lines from his classmates? Or if a young woman learn a secular, feminist attitude from her peers, or forbid it, her own teachers, all under the "pretenses" of "Traditional Catholic Education"? How many parents have lamented how often their children were exposed to the foul language, the constant talk of video games and superheroes, the degenerate music, the scandalous attitudes, and outside school, the evil recreation, from their "traditional Catholic" school "friends"? Is not the development of moral character a principal aspect of education? Does not this aspect depend on a wholesome educational environment?

    Thirdly, Fr Palko must forget that Msgr Lefebvre called for a return to the land whenever possible said, "Yes, you yourselves will make the school for your children! If the schools should corrupt your children, what are you going to do? Deliver them to the corrupters? […] It is inconceivable!" Bishop de Mallerais in his biography of the Archbishop interpreted these words to mean home education! Another instance of the sons of Lefebvre going against their very founder's magnanimous spirit and vision.

    Lastly, Fr Palko assumes as a rule that home education will lead to serious disruptions in the child's education and have long-term negative consequences. Unfortunately, Fr Palko must not be paying attention to the now-decades of evidence demonstrating unequivocally that home schooling students, as a rule, are superior to their public and private school counterparts in every metric. Of course, we all have seen and known home school families that perhaps are stretched too thin, who should seek out additional help, or whose children may be "socially awkward" etc. But as the evidence shows, these are more the exception rather than the norm. 

    Unfortunately, it seems to me a form of gaslighting by the SSPX to turn around and suggest serious moral failures on the part of "fearful" parents for even thinking about withdrawing their children but then do nothing to stand up to the onslaught of secular, globalist power. Or rather worse, to aid these forces by silence, gaslighting, and producing moral guidance on the "Catholic position" regarding these vaccines that secular forces can use against Catholic employees when seeking an exemption (but who are then told by the SSPX to exercise "prudence"!)


    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: SSPX Letter on the Vaxing of its NZ Teachers
    « Reply #23 on: January 09, 2022, 03:20:21 PM »
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  • You have covered the SSPX homeschool schizophrenia subject very well Canis!

    The only thing left to do is to debate an SSPX spokesman in a public forum.

    I’m guessing they would claim it would be, “beneath their grace of state” to do so.

    The SSPX’s education program has been very inconsistent, and as you probably know, they started getting really squirrelly around 2011.

    From many accounts, they demonized and ostracized their own home school movement, which had been the bedrock of learning for the SSPX chapel system in North America.

    This SSPX educational reform campaign coincided with the purging of the “Williamson nαzιs” and other frumpy, old time trad conservatives.

    It also fit nicely into Max Krah’s vision of a rebranded, pro-Semitic TLM group that could adopt to the modern world.
    "Some preachers will keep silence about the truth, and others will trample it underfoot and deny it. Sanctity of life will be held in derision even by those who outwardly profess it, for in those days Our Lord Jesus Christ will send them not a true Pastor but a destroyer."  St. Francis of Assisi