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Author Topic: SSPX Leaves Tulsa / I want specifically Cathinfo opinion  (Read 7859 times)

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Offline MaterDominici

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Re: SSPX Leaves Tulsa / I want specifically Cathinfo opinion
« Reply #15 on: September 26, 2017, 07:30:16 PM »
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    • I don't think it's automatically condemnable for the SSPX or any other group to pull out of a given location if they choose to do so. What's lacking is either telling the congregation that their local operation is totally broke or cutting them a check for whatever remains.

    These and other situations could cause a lot less distress among the faithful with better communication. They seem to always presume the average person in the pew doesn't have a need to know the details of the situation.
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    Offline Neil Obstat

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    Re: SSPX Leaves Tulsa / I want specifically Cathinfo opinion
    « Reply #16 on: September 26, 2017, 07:31:17 PM »
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    • Quote from: Matthew on September 26, 2017, 07:19:26 PM
    How typical of the neo-SSPX.

    I'm not surprised by this at all.
    .
    There you go. You wanted "specifically CathInfo opinion" -- you got it.
    .
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    Offline DLaurentius

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    Re: SSPX Leaves Tulsa / I want specifically Cathinfo opinion
    « Reply #17 on: September 26, 2017, 09:25:49 PM »
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    • It is sad to say, but most SSPX homilies nowadays do not sound much different from the homilies that FSSP or Indult priests give. When that is the case, many people do not feel the need to travel out of their way to go to or give their money to an SSPX center.
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    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: SSPX Leaves Tulsa / I want specifically Cathinfo opinion
    « Reply #18 on: September 27, 2017, 10:29:31 AM »
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    • Quote from: DLaurentius on September 26, 2017, 09:25:49 PM
    It is sad to say, but most SSPX homilies nowadays do not sound much different from the homilies that FSSP or Indult priests give. When that is the case, many people do not feel the need to travel out of their way to go to or give their money to an SSPX center.

    I have a distinctly different take.

    The FSSP homilies are superior to the current SSPX luke-warm pablum, spoken from their pulpits.

    Check the sermon and lectures from Sensus Fidelium, which are "cutting edge" compared to what we hear from the Society.

    Here's one example:

    Folks, the SSPX's salt has lost it's savor.

    Father Wegner, you can pull-out of Tulsa, Los Gatos and St. Mary's Kansas.... just don't take the traditional Catholic's hard earned money and real-estate assets as you go.  :farmer:

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    Offline DLaurentius

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    Re: SSPX Leaves Tulsa / I want specifically Cathinfo opinion
    « Reply #19 on: September 27, 2017, 06:02:53 PM »
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    • I will have to listen to that homily sometime.  I know some FSSP (or former FSSP) priests like Father Chad Ripperger give excellent homiles. The FSSP priests near where I live seem to like to stick to non-controversial topics like abstaining from twinkies during lent or the importance giving aid to Novus Ordo missionaries in Africa. 
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    Offline LaramieHirsch

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    Re: SSPX Leaves Tulsa / I want specifically Cathinfo opinion
    « Reply #20 on: September 28, 2017, 07:55:11 AM »
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    • Quote from: Neil Obstat on September 26, 2017, 07:31:17 PM
    .
    There you go. You wanted "specifically CathInfo opinion" -- you got it.
    .
    I appreciate all the input in this thread.  

    I am planning some follow up posts next week on this.  I've been thinking a lot about this.  

    What kind of responsibility, do you think, falls upon the laity in a parish or congregation of the Society?  If you want a parish life, you need a lot of individual participation.  But I wonder something: Is it possible that people worship parish life?  Is it possible that laity can end up making an idol of a churchy community lifestyle?

    What do you suppose God had in mind when it comes to laity responsibility?
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    Offline Incredulous

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    Re: SSPX Leaves Tulsa / I want specifically Cathinfo opinion
    « Reply #21 on: September 28, 2017, 09:58:37 AM »
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    • Quote from: LaramieHirsch on September 28, 2017, 07:55:11 AM
    I appreciate all the input in this thread.  

    I am planning some follow up posts next week on this.  I've been thinking a lot about this.  

    What kind of responsibility, do you think, falls upon the laity in a parish or congregation of the Society?  If you want a parish life, you need a lot of individual participation.  But I wonder something: Is it possible that people worship parish life?  Is it possible that laity can end up making an idol of a churchy community lifestyle?

    What do you suppose God had in mind when it comes to laity responsibility?

    We, the laity, are an integral part of the Church militant.

    It is our duty, to try our best, to keep the Sacraments, especially the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, going as long as possible.

    We do not compromise with error, but carry-on as long as we can.  

    With the infiltration of the traditional orders, it pretty much means a catacomb patch-work of independent chapels and priests.

    How many times does Our Lord remind us, the we will be rewarded if we persevere against all the adversity thrown at us?
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    Offline JPaul

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    Re: SSPX Leaves Tulsa / I want specifically Cathinfo opinion
    « Reply #22 on: September 28, 2017, 10:07:58 AM »
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    • What opinion can one have other than suspicion or skepticism?  The SSPX has a history of persuading folks to turn over their properties in return for sacramental services and then, in not a few cases, selling off the properties to build somewhere else or not at all. Why should this be different?  
    What becomes apparent in these occurrences is that the salvation of wanting souls is not always the highest item on their  long term agenda.
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    Offline JPaul

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    Re: SSPX Leaves Tulsa / I want specifically Cathinfo opinion
    « Reply #23 on: September 28, 2017, 10:28:02 AM »
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    • Quote from: Incredulous on September 28, 2017, 09:58:37 AM
    We, the laity, are an integral part of the Church militant.

    It is our duty, to try our best, to keep the Sacraments, especially the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, going as long as possible.

    We do not compromise with error, but carry-on as long as we can.  

    With the infiltration of the traditional orders, it pretty much means a catacomb patch-work of independent chapels and priests.

    How many times does Our Lord remind us, the we will be rewarded if we persevere against all the adversity thrown at us?
    All quite true. Most of the remaining Traditional Catholics have been drawn in by one organization or another and now, for the most part, identify their religious and prayer life with these entities. They invest not just their donations but themselves in a particular chapel, cleric, or group thereof,  and when there is a disruption of some type, they are left foundering for having abandoned any other religious remedy or choices over time.
    It is indeed a time when a man must persevere to save himself. Cooperation with others is possible but in the end you are alone. The Church at present is being prevented by its enemies, both inside and out, from providing what it was meant to be providing you.  One needs to keep alternative religious and sacramental options open and alive.
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    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: SSPX Leaves Tulsa / I want specifically Cathinfo opinion
    « Reply #24 on: September 28, 2017, 11:24:10 AM »
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    • Quote from: Incredulous on September 27, 2017, 10:29:31 AM
    I have a distinctly different take.

    The FSSP homilies are superior to the current SSPX luke-warm pablum, spoken from their pulpits.

    Check the sermon and lectures from Sensus Fidelium, which are "cutting edge" compared to what we hear from the Society.

    Here's one example:

    Folks, the SSPX's salt has lost it's savor.

    Father Wegner, you can pull-out of Tulsa, Los Gatos and St. Mary's Kansas.... just don't take the traditional Catholic's hard earned money and real-estate assets as you go.  :farmer:


    I watched this entire video and would love to email the Father; asking him for the prayers he suggested if we email him.  Does anyone know how to obtain his email?
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: SSPX Leaves Tulsa / I want specifically Cathinfo opinion
    « Reply #25 on: September 28, 2017, 12:29:09 PM »
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    • Quote from: Incredulous on September 27, 2017, 10:29:31 AM
    I have a distinctly different take.

    The FSSP homilies are superior to the current SSPX luke-warm pablum, spoken from their pulpits.



    Folks, the SSPX's salt has lost it's savor.

    Father Wegner, you can pull-out of Tulsa, Los Gatos and St. Mary's Kansas.... just don't take the traditional Catholic's hard earned money and real-estate assets as you go.  :farmer:

    Incred, thanks for that video!

    I do not disagree entirely with most of the remarks in this thread, yet so far no one has even mentioned the other side of the coin. By that I mean so far, the theme here is to consider those who lost the SSPX when they pulled out in the night as being helpless victims, without considering why would our Lord take away their priests and Mass and sacraments. Might I suggest the possibility that the people took what little they had for granted so God took it away from them? That happens sometimes. Heck, it happened all over the world 50 years ago - no? I wonder how many parishioners split their time between going to the NO / indult / SSPX, or just missed Mass regularly without proper reason, or ?

    Of course, it's been a long time since I remember hearing an SSPX sermon on the necessity of avoiding the NO / Indult or the necessity of adhering to our Sunday obligation.

     
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    Offline MyrnaM

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    Re: SSPX Leaves Tulsa / I want specifically Cathinfo opinion
    « Reply #26 on: September 28, 2017, 01:33:44 PM »
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    Stubborn...  "without considering why would our Lord take away their priests and Mass and sacraments. Might I suggest the possibility that the people took what little they had for granted so God took it away from them? That happens sometimes. Heck, it happened all over the world 50 years ago - no?"
    I have often wondered why God took away the Mass and Sacraments when He allowed VII to take over our Churches, but watching the video here it seems it was THAT generation was the reason. 

    We didn't deserve God's gifts, no one cried out about what that generation was doing, we just sat and laughed at them, and said to ourselves, thank God we are not like them. (type of thinking)  
     
    I have no idea about this "leaving of Tulsa" and why it happened since I am not involved.  Could it be the same type of thinking from that congregation there, that they were too Proud thinking themselves better than others?

    I think it is time for all of us to examine our conscience.    This happening is very frightening to me because it could happen to any of us, our parish or congregation.   
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    Offline TKGS

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    Re: SSPX Leaves Tulsa / I want specifically Cathinfo opinion
    « Reply #27 on: September 28, 2017, 02:41:03 PM »
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    • Quote from: MyrnaM on September 28, 2017, 01:33:44 PM
    I have often wondered why God took away the Mass and Sacraments when He allowed VII to take over our Churches, but watching the video here it seems it was THAT generation was the reason.

    We didn't deserve God's gifts, no one cried out about what that generation was doing, we just sat and laughed at them, and said to ourselves, thank God we are not like them. (type of thinking)  
     
    I have no idea about this "leaving of Tulsa" and why it happened since I am not involved.  Could it be the same type of thinking from that congregation there, that they were too Proud thinking themselves better than others?

    I think it is time for all of us to examine our conscience.    This happening is very frightening to me because it could happen to any of us, our parish or congregation.  
    God never took away the Mass and Sacraments.  Man abandoned God and refused to give to him their love and offer him their worship.
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    Offline JPaul

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    Re: SSPX Leaves Tulsa / I want specifically Cathinfo opinion
    « Reply #28 on: September 28, 2017, 03:27:19 PM »
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    • Quote from: TKGS on September 28, 2017, 02:41:03 PM
    God never took away the Mass and Sacraments.  Man abandoned God and refused to give to him their love and offer him their worship.
    And I would add, Man refused to fight for the return of the Mass and more importantly,  the sound doctrine of Christ which is the map to Salvation.  Relatively speaking they let it be taken away and did not love enough to hold it fast.
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    Offline Stubborn

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    Re: SSPX Leaves Tulsa / I want specifically Cathinfo opinion
    « Reply #29 on: September 28, 2017, 03:30:48 PM »
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    • Quote from: JPaul on September 28, 2017, 03:27:19 PM
    And I would add, Man refused to fight for the return of the Mass and more importantly,  the sound doctrine of Christ which is the map to Salvation.  Relatively speaking they let it be taken away and did not love enough to hold it fast.
    Yes, they took it for granted is what I am suggesting - which would explain why they don't have it any longer in Tulsa. The jist is, whatever can be said about the SSPX, the people must at least be as much to blame.
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