Author Topic: SSPX lack of Hymnal shows stagnation (Read 12329 times)

Matthew · « **on:** September 08, 2014, 02:44:31 PM »

It took many years, but in 2001 the "Traditional Roman Hymnal" was printed.

But around 2010, it went permanently out of stock. At first, they claimed they were making a new edition.

But now there is no mention of any kind of hymnal on the Angelus Press website.

Recall that the TRH had a forward written by Bishop Williamson -- who the SSPX authorities have since ejected illegally from the SSPX. You'd think they would want to release a new TRH, if only just to flush out the old ones that have a constant reminder of the good Bishop!

But now they've had *no hymnal available* for 4 years and counting. Why is that? Is it because we (SSPX attendees) will all be using mainstream Novus Ordo hymnals in a couple of years? Is it because the Tridentine/Traditional movement doesn't have a future, since a complete surrender is in the works?

Seriously. They sure don't act like they're trying to change anybody over to Tradition. An organization the size of the SSPX could easily put together a standard hymnal -- if they WANTED to, that is.

If they were pushing Tradition, they'd want Trads to preserve and learn the hymns at home, etc. and a hymnal is quite critical for that goal. Catholic sacred music is a big part of Catholic culture.

You can't say there isn't a demand. They are selling for $200 (used) or $1200 (new) on Amazon.com.

It really shows a stagnation within the SSPX. If they were establishing new chapels -- or growing in any way -- they'd want a steady supply of things like hymnals to outfit the new chapels. But it's like they don't want to expand any further than they already have -- it might be interpreted as stepping on Rome's toes, which they don't want to do at any cost!

I should point out that it's not just about SSPX chapel expansion. If the SSPX were pushing Tradition AT ALL they would want all groups, including Indult and independent -- to have access to in-print collections of traditional sacred hymns. After all, each Mass location (of whatever affiliation) will need several copies. You can't use existing Novus Ordo hymnals for sacred music. They are not appropriate, acceptable or adequate.

Didn't the proposed "deal" involve not establishing any new Mass Centers? Perhaps an under-the-table "deal without a formal deal" has already been made?

What does the SSPX know that we don't? Do they have inside information on future lack-of-demand for Traditional hymnals?

With this conspicuous departure from the past SSPX behavior, it sure makes one wonder.

Marlelar · « **Reply #1 on:** September 08, 2014, 04:41:03 PM »

In Phoenix they will be opening a new, and very large, church, I wonder how they will stock the pews with hymnals?

Marsha

Capt McQuigg · « **Reply #2 on:** September 08, 2014, 04:49:54 PM »

The new pastor of the SSPX chapel in St Louis is openly encouraging the faithful to sing along during the High Mass.

Maybe the Angelus Press is getting ready to print some hymnals.

It would be nice.

1st Mansion Tenant · « **Reply #3 on:** September 08, 2014, 04:53:57 PM »

I have only ever heard 5-6 different songs sung in the chapels I have attended, and most of us have those memorized anyway. Maybe new hymnals are just not high on their priority list. Since they never bothered to inform folks from the pulpits that +W was railroaded, not too many people who aren't online on SSPX related forums even know about it, and I doubt many who do would stop to read the introduction during Mass anyway- they are too busy fumbling to find the right page and keep up with the Mass. In the office howerver, they still have hanging the afghan type throw blanket that bears the crests of all four bishops. It makes me sad when I see it.

PG · « **Reply #4 on:** September 08, 2014, 04:58:51 PM »

This is related to the gripe that I had about the sspx when I was going there. The lady directing the choir would never have them chant the proper collects for the sunday, nor would she make it known ahead of mass what they would be.

Matthew · « **Reply #5 on:** September 08, 2014, 06:06:48 PM »

Quote from: 1st Mansion Tenant

I have only ever heard 5-6 different songs sung in the chapels I have attended, and most of us have those memorized anyway.

You are probably right, but that's still very sad. The body of Catholic music goes well beyond 6 songs. As a music person, I know precisely what people would be missing in a chapel where only 6 songs are sung. No one can limit themselves to only 6 songs without getting sick of them. You *know* those people are listening to countless other crap songs (outside of a Church setting) to compensate.

They probably know of way more than 6 songs produced by "Pop culture" that they like. So which is better -- Catholicism or pop culture? Which has produced more beauty?

See why it's bad when Catholics are woefully ignorant about the beauty of Catholic culture?

Quote from: 1st Mansion Tenant

Maybe new hymnals are just not high on their priority list. Since they never bothered to inform folks from the pulpits that +W was railroaded, not too many people who aren't online on SSPX related forums even know about it, and I doubt many who do would stop to read the introduction during Mass anyway- they are too busy fumbling to find the right page and keep up with the Mass. In the office howerver, they still have hanging the afghan type throw blanket that bears the crests of all four bishops. It makes me sad when I see it.

Yes, I agree. It's very sad. And I agree that many are woefully ignorant and uninformed about what's going on.

trento · « **Reply #6 on:** September 10, 2014, 12:02:40 PM »

The Traditional Roman Hymnal in general is good, but not great. Some of the popular wording of hymns have unsingable tunes. I agree that a new edition should be in order. I know that in some of the SSPX chapels, they supplement the TRH with other hymnals, or make their own hymnals!

By the way, I recall that TRH was published by the Canadian District, not Angelus Press.

trento · « **Reply #7 on:** September 10, 2014, 12:09:58 PM »

I did a Google search and the TRH is still available for sale here: http://birettabooks.com/go/webstore/product/the_traditional_roman_hymnal/

Matthew · « **Reply #8 on:** September 10, 2014, 12:15:12 PM »

Quote from: trento

The Traditional Roman Hymnal in general is good, but not great. Some of the popular wording of hymns have unsingable tunes. I agree that a new edition should be in order. I know that in some of the SSPX chapels, they supplement the TRH with other hymnals, or make their own hymnals!

By the way, I recall that TRH was published by the Canadian District, not Angelus Press.

1. Yes, it's not perfect, but it was "something". At least it had the popular Kyries, and many good hymns. What bothers me is that they've replaced it with *nothing*. The old TRH was certainly better than *nothing*.

2. Yes, it was produced by the Canadian district -- but that's still the SSPX. And now the entire SSPX (all districts, plus Angelus Press) have decided to drop the project altogether, as if the Church doesn't need a real Catholic hymnal...

We can argue about whether or not the Conciliar Church is Catholic, and we can give the benefit of the doubt to the individuals who attend the Novus Ordo. But the "Catholicity" of their hymnals isn't open for debate -- they are completely non-Catholic.

When it comes to hymnals, we can completely write off the Conciliar Church.

We can debate whether the Novus Ordo Mass gives grace. Novus Ordo hymns do NOT give "Catholic sense", but rather "protestant sense". If anyone stays Catholic in the Novus Ordo it is DESPITE the hymns, not because of them.

Next point: Does any other Trad group have an in-print hymnal? It doesn't have to be the SSPX.

If none of them do, then the CATHOLIC CHURCH doesn't have an in-print Hymnal right now. That's why I started this thread -- it's pretty serious!

I know, we're in a Crisis -- but a Crisis that's lasted 45 years and we (Traditional Catholics) collectively have quite a few resources, including publishing resources. We, the remnant, have managed to produce countless other necessary Catholic books (The Summa, Liber Usualis, Denzinger, hand missals, Baltimore Catechism, Douay-Rheims Bible, etc.)

Meg · « **Reply #9 on:** September 10, 2014, 12:34:24 PM »

Quote from: Matthew

Quote from: trento
The Traditional Roman Hymnal in general is good, but not great. Some of the popular wording of hymns have unsingable tunes. I agree that a new edition should be in order. I know that in some of the SSPX chapels, they supplement the TRH with other hymnals, or make their own hymnals!

By the way, I recall that TRH was published by the Canadian District, not Angelus Press.

1. Yes, it's not perfect, but it was "something". At least it had the popular Kyries, and many good hymns. What bothers me is that they've replaced it with *nothing*. The old TRH was certainly better than *nothing*.

2. Yes, it was produced by the Canadian district -- but that's still the SSPX. And now the entire SSPX (all districts, plus Angelus Press) have decided to drop the project altogether, as if the Church doesn't need a real Catholic hymnal...

We can argue about whether or not the Conciliar Church is Catholic, and we can give the benefit of the doubt to the individuals who attend the Novus Ordo. But the "Catholicity" of their hymnals isn't open for debate -- they are completely non-Catholic.

When it comes to hymnals, we can completely write off the Conciliar Church.

We can debate whether the Novus Ordo Mass gives grace. Novus Ordo hymns do NOT give "Catholic sense", but rather "protestant sense". If anyone stays Catholic in the Novus Ordo it is DESPITE the hymns, not because of them.

Next point: Does any other Trad group have an in-print hymnal? It doesn't have to be the SSPX.

If none of them do, then the CATHOLIC CHURCH doesn't have an in-print Hymnal right now. That's why I started this thread -- it's pretty serious!

I know, we're in a Crisis -- but a Crisis that's lasted 45 years and we (Traditional Catholics) collectively have quite a few resources, including publishing resources. We, the remnant, have managed to produce countless other necessary Catholic books (The Summa, Liber Usualis, Denzinger, hand missals, Baltimore Catechism, Douay-Rheims Bible, etc.)

It is a concern that the traditional hymnals are not being produced by the SSPX, in any district. You are so right about the Catholic Church not having a hymnal right now. The Novus Ordo hymnals are indeed Protestant in that they have a lot of Prot hymns in addition to Catholic hymns. There's nothing to distinguish it from, say, an Anglican hymnal. Even the newer St. Michael hymnals that are in use is some NO parishes still contain a lot of Prot hymns. Dreadful. I refuse to sing the Prot hymns, as well as the silly newer "Catholic" hymns.

ggreg · « **Reply #10 on:** September 10, 2014, 12:56:09 PM »

I have a large hymnal in PDF format in my phone. Easy to find the right hymm, wordsearch, easy to read in a dark church at a midnight carol service. Data wise you could carry every book a Catholic ever needed on a tablet or beefed up smartphone.

As for printing them with modern software it is pretty easy to do this. My brother printed LOADS of hymnals for the SSPX years ago. It's not like the words are copyrighted any longer.

Matthew · « **Reply #11 on:** September 10, 2014, 01:12:49 PM »

Quote from: ggreg

I have a large hymnal in PDF format in my phone. Easy to find the right hymm, wordsearch, easy to read in a dark church at a midnight carol service. Data wise you could carry every book a Catholic ever needed on a tablet or beefed up smartphone.

As for printing them with modern software it is pretty easy to do this. My brother printed LOADS of hymnals for the SSPX years ago. It's not like the words are copyrighted any longer.

Yes, there are various emergency measures to deal with the situation -- PDFs, photocopies, hand-made hymnals, out-of-print hymnals, etc.

But if there's a book that really needs to be A) hardcopy and B) hardbound, it's a hymnal!

Some things just don't work as printouts and/or eBooks.

Just for starters, without standard hymnals you won't be able to get the congregation to sing along -- even the 10% that is willing to sing. It's relatively easy to use photocopies, etc. for a small group like the choir.

Not everyone has the verses memorized. The refrain, maybe. ("Ave, Ave, Ave Mariiiiia... Ave, Ave Mariiiiia...")

And if you're willing to hand out 2 or 3 photocopies to each person, collect them, sort them & put them away after Mass, etc. you might as well just spend $20 per hymnal and save a lot of time. In other words, there would be a demand. Why isn't *anyone* meeting that demand right now?

Is it because no one (or an insufficient number of people) values Catholic music? I'm open to suggestions here.

Miseremini · « **Reply #12 on:** September 10, 2014, 01:41:58 PM »

About a year or so ago there was a man and a priest at the Priory in Quebec Canada working on a new hymnal for the SSPX.

The present one doesn't reflect the hymns from the old St. Basil Hymnal that the seniors remember and also certain verses have been deleted; for example the first verse of Immaculate Mary and removed such beautiful hymns as On This Day O Beautiful Mother and Bring Flowers of the Fairest. I guess they went along with the Basilian Fathers second edition eliminating some as too sentimental.

The St. Gregory hymnal which is lovely was reprinted by Neuman Press in 2006
but I don't know what has happened to them.

Matthew · « **Reply #13 on:** September 10, 2014, 02:38:38 PM »

Quote from: Miseremini

About a year or so ago there was a man and a priest at the Priory in Quebec Canada working on a new hymnal for the SSPX.

The present one doesn't reflect the hymns from the old St. Basil Hymnal that the seniors remember and also certain verses have been deleted; for example the first verse of Immaculate Mary and removed such beautiful hymns as On This Day O Beautiful Mother and Bring Flowers of the Fairest. I guess they went along with the Basilian Fathers second edition eliminating some as too sentimental.

The St. Gregory hymnal which is lovely was reprinted by Neuman Press in 2006
but I don't know what has happened to them.

Thanks for the update.

It's also missing "Tis the Month of our Mother". I don't personally agree with every particular decision to include/omit a given hymn -- but, like I said, the true Catholic world needs a hymnal, and scrounging around garage sales doesn't count! We need a hymnal that's currently in print.

I'm glad to hear there is at least one option for a hymnal today. I had never heard of the St. Gregory hymnal reprint until your post.

Hopefully a few others learned something as well. Viva CathInfo!

ggreg · « **Reply #14 on:** September 10, 2014, 03:00:41 PM »

OK, my suggestion is that I will supply the fully edited laid out PDF docuмent for free (which is 95% of the work) if a bunch of committed lay-people get together and fund the printing and binding of the book as required in their region. They can then gift these to their chapel and they'll remain at the chapel. You need 1 hymm book for every two laypeople when the chapel is at Maximum capacity plus 30% for wastage. Not everyone sings and people can share.

It does not cost much to print and bind an 80 sheet of paper A5 sized book.

Hardback copies are going to be very expensive and in a low-print run might be WAY too ambitious given where Traditionalism is today. Instead make them with a decent laminated card cover and they'll last a good 5-10 years in my experience.

Most of my brother's first editions got nicked from the Church because people liked them and took them home. But at a few bucks per copy they can be replaced. It's probably a good thing that people take them because then they learn the hymms and sing them at home potentially.

At $3 per copy this is fine. At $60 per copy it is not.