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Author Topic: SSPX issues 28 Pages Profession to Pope  (Read 1903 times)

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Offline Ladislaus

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Re: SSPX issues 28 Pages Profession to Pope
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2026, 10:48:02 PM »
It's basically a profession of heresy. There is NO salvation outside the church, not some salvation.

Yep.  You can't fight heresy with heresy.

Online OABrownson1876

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Re: SSPX issues 28 Pages Profession to Pope
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2026, 11:01:37 PM »
It is that same error that Bro. Francis mentioned which was circulated in the 40's, "One can be within the Church without being a member of the Church."  Oh, here we go again!

I will read these 154 points tomorrow at work when I am really bored. 


Offline Ladislaus

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Re: SSPX issues 28 Pages Profession to Pope
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2026, 11:03:59 PM »
Quote
60. This truth means that no one can be saved without Christ and His Church, through a false religion as such, nor be assured of his salvation outside the visible structure of the Church. If men are saved without belonging to the visible society which is the Church, the Mystical Body of Christ, it is by a supernatural ordination to the one Church of salvation, and in spite of the errors of the false religions in which they find themselves, from which they free themselves by not refusing the grace offered to them and by corresponding to it.

"without Christ and his Church", i.e. "through" a false religion -- they've transformed No Salvation Outside the Church into No Salvation except BY MEANS OF the Church and Christ, i.e. Rahner's "Anonymous Christian" soteriology.  Extreme Modernists actually critizied Rahner, since Rahner did actually uphold that these Anonymous Christians were nevertheless saved BY Christ (they wanted to remove that instrumental causality)

[cannot be] "assured of his salvation outside the visible structure of the Church" -- Here they transform No Salvation Outside the Church into No Assurance of Salvation Outside the Church.  What a load of crap.  So ... those inside the Church can be assured of their salvation?  Is this Protism in disguise?

"men are saved without belonging to the visible society which is the Church" -- open heresy.  Even Msgr. Fenton denounced this error, and the BoDers would formulate this as men can be saved without being ACTUAL MEMBERS fo the Church, but they absolutely must BELONG TO the visible society which is the Church.  Church is by definition a visible society, so they're declaring here that one needn't even BELONG TO the Church in order to be saved, much less be in it.

So men are saved "by a supernatural ordination to the one Church of salvation" ... bovine excrement speak for being able to receive the supernatural virtues that somehow invisibly ORDER someone TO the Church (without actually being IN it, though).

See, even the pre-V2 liberal-Modernist types would try to stay on the side of non-heresy by claiming that the are IN the Church somehow (basically the way Fenton formulated it, where even if they were not OF the Church, they are nevertheless IN the Church, including being IN the Visible Society that is the Church).  He's wrong, but at least he realizes that anything short of this effectively denies EENS and turns it into a "meaningless formula" (as per Pius IX).

SSPX et all don't even try.  BUT THEY BRAZENLY AND VERBATIM CONTRADICT DEFINED DOGMA.  We've had the CMRI scandalously publish an article, at least twice, entitled "The Salvation of those Outside the Church" ... which is the equivalent of having an article "The Original Sin of Mary".

What's worse ... they actually have the TEMERITY to declare those who actually believe what the dogma states to be the heretics.  "You nathty Feeneyite you ... you believe there is no salvation outside the Church, and that heretics, schismatics, Jews, Muslims, etc. go to the fires of hell if they do not convert before they die!" ... yeah, so, uhm, if I verbatim state exactly what the Council of Florence taught then I am the nathty heretic, i.e. if I do not profess the exact opposite of what the EENS definitions say, then I'm a nathty heretic.  If, when I am asked, if there's No Salvation Outside the Church, I respond "no, no" (as Our Lord told us) but do not immediately begin a 10-minute prevarication about how the dogma doesn't actually mean what it says and produce 3 pages worth of distinctions, by the end of which you come away thinking that the Church had defined that there IS salvation outside the Church ... if that isn't my response, then I'm a nathty heretic.

But ... but ... "muh Church's terpretation".  So ... isn't that the very foundation of the crusade against Modernism, where the Modernists are the ones who hold that the Church's understanding of a dogma can change from what it was when it was defined?  That's actually THE central doctrinal error of the Modernists that was explicitly condemned.  HINT:  Modernism doesn't refer to "rock music", aka "modern music" and the like at Novus Ordo "Liturgy".  Since WHEN has the Church "interpreted" this dogma to basically mean the exact opposite of what it says, where the heretics are not those who verbatim deny this teaching but those who do not recognize the Church's "mind", where what the Church really "MEANT" by it was the OPPOSITE of what the actual words SAY ... you derned Protestant fool you.  So, when heresy becomes dogma and adherence to dogma heresy ... we can practically see the footprints in the dust and smell the scent of sulfur in the air.

Offline Ladislaus

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Re: SSPX issues 28 Pages Profession to Pope
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2026, 11:10:16 PM »
Catholic says ... "I believe that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Catholic Church before the end of their lives."




Offline Ladislaus

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Re: SSPX issues 28 Pages Profession to Pope
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2026, 11:22:01 PM »
It is that same error that Bro. Francis mentioned which was circulated in the 40's, "One can be within the Church without being a member of the Church."  Oh, here we go again!

I will read these 154 points tomorrow at work when I am really bored.

Yeah ... so that formulation was actually the one held by most CONSERVATIVES, including Fenton.

No, it is NOT the same error.  AT NO POINT did the SSPX Profession of faith ever say that those who are saved must be "within the Church" as your assertion holds.  Read it again.  They did everything BUT say it.  They said that there's no salvation except BY MEANS OF THE CHRUCH AND CHRIST, and that there's no ASSURANCE of salvation outside the Church.  At no point did they even assert that those saved are IN the Church somehow.

HERE's what the more "mainstream" understanding was.

Cardinal Cushing:  "No salvation outside the Church?  Nonsense.  Nobody's gonna tell me that Christ came to die for any select group."

Father Keleher, S.J., President of Boston College:  "Father Feeney came to me at the beginning of this situation and I would have liked to do something except that I could not agree with his doctrine on salvation… He (Fr. Feeney) kept repeating such phrases as ‘There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church."

Father Feeney's Jesuit Superior (and numerous others ... this is a direct quote and several others made substantially the same reference to "Father Feeney’s doctrine that there is no salvation outside the Church".