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Author Topic: SSPX infested with Modernist Heresy  (Read 11730 times)

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Offline praesul

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Re: SSPX infested with Modernist Heresy
« Reply #60 on: October 10, 2022, 07:16:49 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on October 08, 2022, 08:22:00 AM
    When you start telling people that ALL and WHOLE actually mean SOME and A VERY SMALL PART OF respectively, then that destroys any trust and belief in Sacred Scripture and in dogma.
    That is the objective. From what I can observe in my experiences, it is working well. 
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX infested with Modernist Heresy
    « Reply #61 on: October 10, 2022, 09:48:44 PM »
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    • Quote from: praesul on October 10, 2022, 07:16:49 PM
    That is the objective. From what I can observe in my experiences, it is working well.

    Yes, and I have seen this at work up close and personal.  I would say that 90% of the young men who walked into my Jesuit High School with (at least some sense of) Catholic faith left as agnostics or even atheists, and it is precisely this garbage that stuck in their minds.  I used to believe all these stories in the Bible, but I now see how they were mostly made-up stories, without Adam or Eve, no Garden of Eden or serpent, no tree with fruit on it, without a Flood, without a parting of the Red Sea, with the Creation account being completely wrong from a scientific standpoint but just a fanciful fairy tale by which God meant just to say, "I made the world." (that's not far off from what Father Peter Scott said about it).  And, oh, yeah, Moses didn't write the Pentateuch, but it was hacked together from a "J" source and a "P" source that are clearly in contradiction, including many things stolen from pagan sources.  Gospels contradicted each other, and much of what was attributed to Jesus was done so just to make a theological point or to further a particular theological viewpoint.  And the Apostles had some Resurrection "experience".

    When you put all this crap together, no WONDER everybody's losing the faith.

    And now tragically we have these priests posing as Traditional Catholics pushing the exact same heretical crap the Jesuists were pushing back when I was in school in the 1980s.
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    Offline praesul

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    Re: SSPX infested with Modernist Heresy
    « Reply #62 on: October 10, 2022, 11:30:55 PM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on October 10, 2022, 09:48:44 PM
    And now tragically we have these priests posing as Traditional Catholics pushing the exact same heretical crap the Jesuists were pushing back when I was in school in the 1980s.
    I saw the same thing. I attended Jesuit University. I remember in a 100 level intro to Theology course ... a plaid shirt / blue jeans attired Jesuit "priest" professing to us how important Spinoza was to modern rational thinking. After all, he shared with us wide eyed undergrads, Albert Einstein had claimed that Spinoza's philosophy was a critical element of his Weltanschauung. Those faggy Jesuits nearly destroyed my Faith. Nearly.

    Now, as you and I have noted, we have so called traditional bishops and priests spouting the same sorts of dangerous poison. One would never eat in a restaurant that got caught serving rotten food, yet people are so hungry for the sacraments and the TLM that they put up with these heretical priests serving up modernist rot that will kill one's faith.

    Something needs to change.

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    Offline trento

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    Re: SSPX infested with Modernist Heresy
    « Reply #63 on: October 11, 2022, 04:12:58 AM »
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    • FWIW, I will be interested to see some sort of debate between Frs Laisney/Robinson and the Kolbe Center. 
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    Offline ServusInutilisDomini

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    Re: SSPX infested with Modernist Heresy
    « Reply #64 on: October 11, 2022, 05:29:41 AM »
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    • Quote from: trento on October 11, 2022, 04:12:58 AM
    FWIW, I will be interested to see some sort of debate between Frs Laisney/Robinson and the Kolbe Center.
    LOL. Don't hold your breath.

    It's disgusting how dismissive and proud these modernists are. I wonder if they considered the position of all the Church Fathers for even one second.

    The Kolbe Center should challenge them to a debate and then constantly remind everyone that they refuse to debate them.

    IDK if the Kolbe Center has any strong debater, however, Sungenis would definitely destroy these modernists.
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    Offline Nadir

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    Re: SSPX infested with Modernist Heresy
    « Reply #65 on: October 11, 2022, 05:51:11 AM »
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    • Quote from: trento on October 11, 2022, 04:12:58 AM
    FWIW, I will be interested to see some sort of debate between Frs Laisney/Robinson and the Kolbe Center.
    You won’t see it, because Laisney/Robinson know that Kolbe would wipe the floor with them. Neither is sufficiently knowlegeable to debate with Kolbe, as has already been demonstrated
    here: 
    https://www.kolbecenter.org/scoffers-will-arise-in-the-last-days-a-reply-to-fr-paul-robinson-fsspx-2/




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    Offline Mr G

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    Re: SSPX infested with Modernist Heresy
    « Reply #66 on: October 11, 2022, 07:32:30 AM »
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    • Quote from: ServusInutilisDomini on October 11, 2022, 05:29:41 AM
    LOL. Don't hold your breath.

    It's disgusting how dismissive and proud these modernists are. I wonder if they considered the position of all the Church Fathers for even one second.

    The Kolbe Center should challenge them to a debate and then constantly remind everyone that they refuse to debate them.

    IDK if the Kolbe Center has any strong debater, however, Sungenis would definitely destroy these modernists.
    Hugh and the Kolbe Center team are willing to debate, but it is rare for anyone to take them up on their offer. For those that go to SSPX, maybe you can convince all your fellow SSPX friends to write to Fr. Robinson asking Father to debate with either Hugh or Robert.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX infested with Modernist Heresy
    « Reply #67 on: October 11, 2022, 08:29:56 AM »
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    • Quote from: ServusInutilisDomini on October 11, 2022, 05:29:41 AM
    LOL. Don't hold your breath.

    It's disgusting how dismissive and proud these modernists are. I wonder if they considered the position of all the Church Fathers for even one second.

    The Kolbe Center should challenge them to a debate and then constantly remind everyone that they refuse to debate them.

    IDK if the Kolbe Center has any strong debater, however, Sungenis would definitely destroy these modernists.

    Didn't someone at Kolbe offer a debate challenge to Father Robinson?
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX infested with Modernist Heresy
    « Reply #68 on: October 11, 2022, 08:36:04 AM »
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    • Quote from: Nadir on October 11, 2022, 05:51:11 AM
    You won’t see it, because Laisney/Robinson know that Kolbe would wipe the floor with them. Neither is sufficiently knowlegeable to debate with Kolbe, as has already been demonstrated
    here:
    https://www.kolbecenter.org/scoffers-will-arise-in-the-last-days-a-reply-to-fr-paul-robinson-fsspx-2/

    from the article --
    Quote
    Perhaps the most glaring weakness in Fr. Robinson’s critique of the Kolbe Center is its almost total failure to find support in the Sacred Tradition and authoritative Magisterial teaching of the Church. The strongest support Fr. Robinson can cite for his acceptance of long ages are a few statements from Pope Leo XIII in Providentissimus Deus in which the Pope allows for the possibility that the authors of Sacred Scripture sometimes used popular rather than scientific language to describe certain phenomena, thus, in Fr. Robinson’s opinion, opening the way for exegetes to reconcile long ages with the Holy Scriptures.

    It should give any Catholic reader pause that Fr. Robinson is not able to cite a single Church Father, Doctor, Ecuмenical Council or authoritative Magisterial statement in support of his position and must rest his case on a papal permission to interpret certain passages of Holy Scripture in a sense other than the literal and obvious sense. This is not the modus operandi of the Church Fathers and Doctors, nor of the Council Fathers and Popes when they define doctrine. Their modus operandi is to cite the literal and obvious sense of Scripture and the common teaching of the Fathers when interpreting Scripture. Indeed, Pope Leo XIII in the same encyclical cited by Fr. Robinson exhorts Catholic exegetes not to depart from the literal and obvious sense of Scripture, save when reason dictates or necessity requires that they depart from that sense.
    ...

    It is tragic that Fr. Robinson gives great weight to statements of Pope Leo XIII that seem to allow for a revision of the traditional Catholic understanding of the sacred history of Genesis but no weight at all to the much more authoritative statements of the Magisterium that support the traditional reading. In this respect, Fr. Robinson has much in common with the mainstream modernist Catholic exegetes ...

    Father Robinson IS a "modernist Catholic exegete" (perhaps not "mainstream" ... yet).  Kolbe recognizes the same thing we've been pointing out, that this approach is Modernistm, pure and simple.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX infested with Modernist Heresy
    « Reply #69 on: October 11, 2022, 08:46:33 AM »
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    • Here that Kolbe article addresses the theological note question.  Yes, this is heresy from Laisney and Robinson:
    Quote
    Again and again, the progressive creationists and theistic evolutionists accuse the members of the Kolbe Center of exalting their private opinions above the Magisterium of the Church. But this is a calumny. We are simply maintaining the reverence for the historical books of the Bible that all of the Fathers, Doctors, Popes and Council Fathers maintained in their authoritative teaching. If Genesis 1-11 is a sacred history, and all historical propositions in historical books of the Bible are free from error, as even Pope Pius XII in Humani generis affirmed, we do not require a Magisterial decree to believe that Adam was 930 years old when he died or that the Flood waters covered all of the Earth’s highest mountains (and was, necessarily, therefore, global in its extent). On the contrary, we are bound to believe these things without any Magisterial decree, because if anyone says that “Adam did not live to be 930 years old” or that “the Flood waters did not actually cover all of the Earth’s highest mountains,” it follows that divine Scripture would be false. The Angelic Doctor reminds us that:

    It is unlawful to hold that any false assertion is contained either in the Gospel or in any canonical Scripture, or that the writers thereof have told untruths, because faith would be deprived of its certitude which is based on the authority of Holy Writ” (ST, II, II, q. 110, art. 3).[/b]

    When these truths are called to mind, it becomes apparent that the Kolbe Center is merely giving to the historical affirmations of Holy Scripture the faith and reverence that are due to Holy Writ.

    This is the goal of the Modernists ... to "deprive faith of its certitude" [per St. Thomas Aquinas].  Once Sacred Scripture is undermined, it's a small step to applying the very same "hermeneutic" to undermine the Magisterium.
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    Offline Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX infested with Modernist Heresy
    « Reply #70 on: October 11, 2022, 08:49:28 AM »
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    • Here's a great argument from Kolbe that I missed:
    Quote
    A local Flood would make God a liar. God promised Noah never to send another Flood upon the Earth (Genesis 9:11).

    If the Flood was a local flood, then God lied to Noah, as there have been countless local floods during the four and a half millennia since the Flood of Noah.

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    Offline Charity

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    Re: SSPX infested with Modernist Heresy
    « Reply #71 on: October 11, 2022, 11:04:07 AM »
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    • Quote from: Ladislaus on October 11, 2022, 08:29:56 AM
    Didn't someone at Kolbe offer a debate challenge to Father Robinson?

    In the past Robinson has refused to debate Sungenis.
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    Offline ServusInutilisDomini

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    Re: SSPX infested with Modernist Heresy
    « Reply #72 on: October 11, 2022, 02:30:50 PM »
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    • Quote from: Charity on October 11, 2022, 11:04:07 AM
    In the past Robinson has refused to debate Sungenis.
    And what was his stated reason?
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    Offline justG

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    Re: SSPX infested with Modernist Heresy
    « Reply #73 on: October 11, 2022, 02:57:49 PM »
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    • According to one of my children (homeschooled), Fr. Robinson held a debate with the students (last year?).  I do not know how it turned out, but it is the only reason why my daughter wanted to be in the school.... so she could debate him on this subject.
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    Offline de Lugo

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    Re: SSPX infested with Modernist Heresy
    « Reply #74 on: October 11, 2022, 02:59:14 PM »
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    • Quote from: justG on October 11, 2022, 02:57:49 PM
    According to one of my children (homeschooled), Fr. Robinson held a debate with the students (last year?).  I do not know how it turned out, but it is the only reason why my daughter wanted to be in the school.... so she could debate him on this subject.

    Did he prevail against the children?  :laugh2:
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