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Author Topic: SSPX: Inching Closer to Doubtful Ordinations?  (Read 759 times)

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Offline SeanJohnson

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SSPX: Inching Closer to Doubtful Ordinations?
« on: May 24, 2021, 03:25:59 PM »
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  • Swiss Bishop Celebrates Pentecost High Mass In PiusX Seminary

    https://www.gloria.tv/post/vdhgqCfSfjJM41ZYHfSv6Cia6



    Retired Chur Bishop Vitus Huonder, 79, Switzerland, celebrated the Pentecost Pontifical High Mass in the PiusX Seminary (SSPX) in Zaitzkofen, Germany (full video below).

    Huonder has been living at the Institut Sancta Maria, a Pius X grammar school in Wangs, St Gallen, Switzerland, since his retirement in 2019. It is rare that bishops, even retired ones, celebrate publicly for PiusX.

    #newsUcqljnphir


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    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."


    Offline obediens

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    Re: SSPX: Inching Closer to Doubtful Ordinations?
    « Reply #1 on: May 24, 2021, 03:31:17 PM »
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  • What about Bishop Salvador Lazo, celebrating Masses and administering Confirmations for the SSPX, in the mid-1990's?


    Offline Minnesota

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    Re: SSPX: Inching Closer to Doubtful Ordinations?
    « Reply #2 on: May 24, 2021, 03:39:59 PM »
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  • Why do the groups who claim to resist Vatican II use a Vatican II indult in regards to the Missa Cantata? Bishops didn't celebrate Sung Masses like priests until 1964 and an indult by Paul VI
    Christ is Risen! He is risen indeed

    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: SSPX: Inching Closer to Doubtful Ordinations?
    « Reply #3 on: May 24, 2021, 03:44:42 PM »
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  • What about Bishop Salvador Lazo, celebrating Masses and administering Confirmations for the SSPX, in the mid-1990's?

    +Lazo was ordained in 1947, so unlike Huonder, there is no question as to the validity of his priesthood.

    As regards confirmation, speaking of +Lazo, +Tissier said in necessity, even a simple priest can be delegated power to confirm (so unlike any theoretical questionable confirmations Huonder might be called upon to perform, Lazo’s would have been certainly valid).

    I predict Huonder doing confirmations in a year, and ordinations in two years.

    These thing take time; the terrain must be prepared.

    Remember what Cottier said after his conquest of Campos:

    “We must be patient...what is important is that there no longer be rejection in their hearts.”

    And internally, Pagliarani needs to be cautious as well.  Recall De Galarreta’s advice at the 2011 meeting of superiors in Albano, that “it is neither right nor prudent to begin preparing minds for change until we ourselves are agreed.”

    Is the SSPX sufficiently purified of trads to accept questionable sacraments?

    It seems that, st least in Switzerland, the silence says yes.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Online Ladislaus

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    Re: SSPX: Inching Closer to Doubtful Ordinations?
    « Reply #4 on: May 24, 2021, 04:15:26 PM »
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  • It'll get to a point with SSPX that if you take a guy, slap some Traditional vestments on him, and trot him out there, nobody will give it a second thought.

    This isn't ENTIRELY new in that the infamous episode of "Fr." Stark was largely responsible for touching off the break of The Nine.

    While the SSPX used to readily offer conditional ordination to NO priests, it was never forced on them.  When it was conferred, it was typically done in secret.  So even in the early 1990s there were a few questionable ones floating around, so that my brother Steve and I would typically carry around a copy of Cor Unum to "look up" the mystery priests who sometimes showed up at STAS.


    Offline SeanJohnson

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    Re: SSPX: Inching Closer to Doubtful Ordinations?
    « Reply #5 on: May 24, 2021, 04:56:32 PM »
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  • +Lazo was ordained in 1947, so unlike Huonder, there is no question as to the validity of his priesthood.

    As regards confirmation, speaking of +Lazo, +Tissier said in necessity, even a simple priest can be delegated power to confirm (so unlike any theoretical questionable confirmations Huonder might be called upon to perform, Lazo’s would have been certainly valid).

    I predict Huonder doing confirmations in a year, and ordinations in two years.

    These thing take time; the terrain must be prepared.

    Remember what Cottier said after his conquest of Campos:

    “We must be patient...what is important is that there no longer be rejection in their hearts.”

    And internally, Pagliarani needs to be cautious as well.  Recall De Galarreta’s advice at the 2011 meeting of superiors in Albano, that “it is neither right nor prudent to begin preparing minds for change until we ourselves are agreed.”

    Is the SSPX sufficiently purified of trads to accept questionable sacraments?

    It seems that, st least in Switzerland, the silence says yes.

    And what of future bishops?

    When the SSPX objected to +Faure’s 2015 consecration, they weren’t so much talking to you and I, as they were virtue signaling to Rome:

    “We would never repeat our terrible mistake (but thanks for letting us tell our people it was fully justified.  That helps us -and therefore you- out.).

    But the Society is captured; it cannot any longer escape its destiny of gradual and progressive conciliarization:

    Huonder will eventually do confirmations if there is no protest to his celebrating Mass.

    He will do ordinations once SSPX herd immunity to confirmations is reached.

    He will assist in episcopal consecrations once herd immunity to ordinations is achieved.

    And step by step, this will all transpire in the next 10 years.

    But Rome will have to help the SSPX make a good show of it:

    Rome will ask for dossiers of it’s most liberal priests (who will neither object to being consecrated by a doubtful bishop, nor present a threat of traditionalism once consecrated).  So the likes of Celier, Lorans, or du Chalard would rank high on such lists (all GREC participants well known to Rome).

    This is how the Society is, and will continue to, sink deeper into Rome’s back pocket, until one day they wake up and groan to realize they have changed from antimodernist fighters, to anti traditional defenders of the conciliar religion.
    Rom 5: 20 - "But where sin increased, grace abounded all the more."

    Offline Pax Vobis

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    Re: SSPX: Inching Closer to Doubtful Ordinations?
    « Reply #6 on: May 24, 2021, 04:58:36 PM »
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  • Quote
    When it was conferred, it was typically done in secret.

    Big red flag.  Ordinations (conditional or not) should NEVER be secret.